What's your oponion about Hell?

[elias]

Hmmmm... How to state this? Well for starters one of the conditions I have to stay living at the Domestic violence shelter is one to have been a victim and two I have to attend group therapy meetings held here once a week... When I moved in here, I was given what they refer to the domestic violence bible. It is a book designed to help women in this situation not repeat the situation, and was written by a man who treats abusers... He is an expert in abuse recovery... Most abusers were not abused as children, that is actually a myth. Men (I know there are some women who abuse men too and this would apply to them also) who abuse women have taught or learned beliefs either from their father, but not necessarily or circle of influence like maybe some college buddies. It is an attitude of control / ownership. The amazing thing is that there are tribes in Africa who have no western influence and a belief system of equality between the sexes who have little or no domestic violence... until television or western influence is introduced to them. That to me was amazing! There are abusers who have been abused as kids, but the majority have not been... Although they will claim to have been, but when put through lie detector test... they have not been. Most men who were abused as boys grow up with the idea that the would never want to put another person through what they went through!

Okay, that said... After I got here, I chose to no longer be a victim... 1 as in I chose not to remain in that relationship, but more importantly on another level completely... A spiritual level! The LOA says that you will attract to you what you put the most feelings into... Therefore if you are afraid of being a victim then you will become one, because fear is a powerful attractor! But to take it to another level we all have a physical side and a spiritual side and both of those sides are one... The spiritual side is our true self or our Extended self! Our extended self creates limilting situations in each of our life games, and from those we can choose to grow, or stay put or whatever... In my life game being abused was one of those limiting situations that I as in my extended or spiritual self created for me to use, and it took a long time, but eventually because of the abuse and the hardships I have been through I have come to a place where I am remembering my true self! So if it is the case that my X husband who was playing an assigned part in my holographic universe that has brought me to a place of peace and understanding beyond anything imaginable... EVIL? Well it is kind of funny, since I have grown and remembered who I am HE is no longer allowed to abuse me! I have no desire to go back to him, but I have rewritten all his lines and his part in my life such that he is what I want him to be! I am doing that with everyone who has a part in my life hologram now. My daughter asked me since they have their own life hologram, what if they do not like my rewrite... My answer was then they can quit being in my life hologram!

My point is who am I to judge who is evil / bad and who is good? We are all just here on a journey to remember who we are! We are all one! And we all write the scripts for our holographic movie that our physical self lives out... I think it is easier for someone who has been in that seemingly bad situation to say that it was good and something I can be grateful for than someone who looks on with horror at where I have been and what situations I have lived through! I CREATED IT ALL! Just as you are creating everything in your life! Rejoice and be glad in it! Gratitude is the key for remembering who we really are!

zartgirl

I agree completely, we must never "hate" someone, hating will reflect back upon ourselves, we may pray for someone instead, which would be more effective.

[future pather]

Wow SJ,

Thanks for being brave enough to explain that info. You have educated me quite a bit on the topic!


Jessica

[Glenn]

This is very interesting - pardon my late response.

Let's consider LOA and higher consciousness for a moment.

If you are able to think and imagine, then you are able to create. We are already creators of our own lives and reality in this world. According to some, our lives are already plotted out on a course we designed and agreed to before being born (or reborn, as the case may be) into this life.

So, if we attract what we think, and we create from what we feel - wouldn't it be perfectly possible to create hell from our own personal, unique, perspective?

As we create our life, or living, who is to say we cannot create, or at least attract, an experience of an afterlife - whether heaven or hell?

Our energetic beings which are connected to higher consciousness, that part of us that is connected to Source and God, if you will, are not confined to the realms of time and space.

If we believe long and hard enough, it is my opinion that we can create and experience an afterlife.

Now, depending on how loose your morals are (there is always that fine line for some...), what you were brought up to believe in terms of religion, sprituality, etc. would, naturally, influence how your mind would think about these concepts and ideals. Each of us has the power to create our own afterlife if we choose - it is really just an extension of our experience here in this plane of existence.

Some may not believe in, or envision, an afterlife for themselves and the Source energy that connects their physical entities to their energetic counterparts will 'reconnect' and be ready for another adventure.

The crux is that we each have our own visions, our own beliefs of the enigma of creation, life and death, and of the afterlife.

Quick example:
While I was growing up, my family practiced Reformed Judaism. As Jessica mentioned, Jews don't believe in hell. Just fater my son was born, my ex became a born again Christian. She most emphatically believes in hell. My son gleans what he wants from both. "Oh, since I'm half Jewish and Jews don't believe in hell - ergo, I need not worry about that aspect of eternity." I guess I shouldn't have turned him onto Douglas Adams (Hitch Hikers dvds/books...) at such an impressionable age.

But this illustrates how we can create our own reality in this life. The afterlife is just an extension of this life. Therefore why shouldn't we be able to create that also? The bottom line is that if it feels right or good for you, then create or believe in what you will - as Stepehn pointed out, is there really anygood or bad, right or wrong? It's is what is in your haed, your heart and your gut that determine those things and they are as personal and individual as your own thoughts.

As MoxieMaggs did, I looked back and wondered how and why I was led here, to belive what I do and to be in the company of so many enlightened individuals.

When I was 16 and knew absolutely everything about everything, yet I still could never see where I was going. The future always seemed just beyond vision. Now that I have grown in years a bit and experienced a great deal of that future, I have found that I have forgotten so much of what I knew at age 16. (Funny how that works...)

Nevertheless, here is a poem I wrote way back then. It started with the first two lines which kept echoing in my head for weeks then the rest just kind of spilled from my pen in just minutes. Reading it again now, after much time, I wonder if I didn't really know more than I realized. I hope you enjoy...

Through The Mind's Eye by Glenn Schreider

Undying love, crimson fading;
Dreams of you, nightmares shading
The lights in the sky growing dim,
Figures in the distance getting slim.
The Future catches up to the Past;
The Present wins the battle at last.
Countless waves beat upon tortured shores.
Paths of imagination lead you to sacred doors.
But you can't enter for you haven't holy blood.
In final desperation you retreat and lie waiting in primordial mud.
Visions of Life and a guiding hand,
The more you see the less you undertsand.
The wind brings warmth as the sun grows cold,
Infants die and their spirits grow old.
Dust fills the air and your mind as well
As you make the journey from heaven to hell.
You see things that just can't be real.
Try to escape the pain you don't feel.
In the darkness, countless bodies burn -
Their forsaken voices calling for your turn.
Approach the ancient scrolls,
They can't be read for they've rotted full of holes.
Mocking laughter echoes through your mind;
Everything is lost - secrets and mysteries left behind.
Something urges you to run for the door,
As you pass through you know there is more.
And just as you begin to question your sanity,
Your devious mind plunges you back into reality.

[elias]

YouTube videos about Hell

Thought to share these videos:
YouTube - Hell Is Real !!! (Part 1 of 3)
YouTube - Hell Is Real !!! (Part 2 of 3)
YouTube - Hell Is Real !!! (Part 3 of 3)

[Samemf]

Hmm ,

interesting topic ,

erm Ilook at all the prophets of god sent to different tribes , from Noah abraham jonah , moses , jesus , and mohammad .

there universal message is the same ,
The lord thy god is ONE .
none is comparatable to him .
do not worship idols or other dieties
All that is in the heavens and the earth are under his control and order .

Even the lords prayer taught by jesus ,
Oh our father (OUR father not my) who art in heaven , helo be thy name (NOT my name) , thy kingdontom , give us this day our daily bread , and forgive US our tresspasses , because thy is the kingdom , and thy is the glory for ever and ever amen .

Ive studied some comparitive religion and its very interesting , beleive there is a creator and that we did not come about by chance , And that when we die its not the end and only the beginning ,

I beleive we will be judged for our deeds in this life and rewarded in the afterlife for these deeds wether good or bad .

God mentions in the gospel that jesus preached that he is a loving god but is also swift to account .
this message is the same in the bible, the torah and the quran .

and they all also mention that repentence is always open for those who repent sincerely and do their best to not return to their bad ways .

the theory of evolution I dont believe , like if man used to be an ape and evolved from apes to become the form we are today , then why are apes still here ?
selective evolution ?

the only evolution i beleive in is virus's adapting to our medicines .

Basically what iv learned is That we are given something wonderfull and also very hard , which is Free Will , thats why god mentions in all three books that here is the path take it and this is your reward , take the other path and theres a reward for that as well , choose your own .

but the basics ,
worship the creater alone , no partners , none other than him alone .
be honest , tell the truth even if it leads to your death .
give charity when you can to the helpless , even a smile is a charity .

just some of my thoughts ....

Read to gain knowledge ..


Sam .

[elias]

the only evolution i beleive in is virus's adapting to our medicines .

Sam .

Thanks Sam,
You summarized the message of all religions so wonderfully.
I think that we have misunderstood adaptation for evolution, because all of the creatures can adapt to their environment, even us, and this does not mean that they evolve into another creature. Even this is a miracle of creation.
Harun Yahya is the Hero for refuting evolution and Darwinism, check out his website if you like:
Harun Yahya - An Invitation to The Truth

Elias

[dambit]

I always enjoy hearing(reading) other people thoughts and beliefs on religion and life.

I personaly have grown up in a non religious evironment, but that does not mean that I do not know that a higher being or great spirit exists. I also think that because of this I have been fortunate enough to be able to look at other religions from an "almost" objective point of view.

Various experiences in my life have led me to the following conclusions:

1. Good and Bad, or Right and Wrong are simply social concepts. Laws change every day as do moral values. Therefore Heaven and Hell exist only in peoples creative minds.

2. Anything that is governed by fear is done so to maintain some level of control. (simply a statement of observation)

3. Physical life is only a small part of our existence.

4. We are all mini versions of the Creator with the same creative ability. Anyone who consiously uses the LOA knows this. Therefore when people truely believe that (for example) they are going to Hell, they will create that experience either in there physical experience or in the spiritual where our creative power is not delayed. (ask anyone who Astral Travels, they will tell you that when they are in the astral plane anything they think about manifests very quickly.)

These are just a few of my thoughts on life. I did a bit of research into paganism and witchcraft a while back (very interesting historys) and one of the witches creeds makes perfect sence, "If ye harm none, do as ye please." I'm sure you've all heard it before, but I just think it's very appropriate for todays "lets take no responsibility for ourselves" world that is too PC.

Kind regards,

Steve

[muttdogg]

We all have hell

Hello all;
Yes I do think there is hell.(Do not capitalise hell, or write "a hell", neither is correct.) An eleven year old kid being left by his father for a fat skank, and then being told that it was his fault, is my definition of hell. I didn't hate him for it, just lived through hell, because of it.
What I believe is, we all go through hell at some point in our life, and our job is understand free will, so as not to become the same person who created our hell. Some yahoos want to toughen, or straighten, or guide, or any other verbose usage of forcing their will upon another. They are the ones creating hell, in order to scare you, or anyone else,to submit to their will. Or maybe they slowly, and gently push you to their way by qouting a "good" book.
I believe in free will. All have the will to stay away from guys like Mugabe, yet they don't. Why? They do not practice free will. They believe in hell, the devil, demons, all sorts of nonsense; They are not taught hell is in their minds.
When you start believing in hell, hell starts believing in you. It starts creeping around every corner, in you tea, coffee, under your bed, search for hell and it will find you.
I am no expert on the "good" book, so if I understand correctly, evil, when it leaves this earthly existence goes to a place where there is no love from G-D. This, to me shows there is no correllation between evil and hell. Equating evil and hell, does no good. They are separate ideas, usually used by bullies to succumb you to their will. And not least, stop your free will.
Maybe "is there evil?" might be a better thread than "is there hell?'. Evil only happens when there is a lack of free will.
Dan

[ANTIQUER]

Hello all;
Yes I do think there is hell.(Do not capitalise hell, or write "a hell", neither is correct.) An eleven year old kid being left by his father for a fat skank, and then being told that it was his fault, is my definition of hell. I didn't hate him for it, just lived through hell, because of it.
What I believe is, we all go through hell at some point in our life, and our job is understand free will, so as not to become the same person who created our hell. Some yahoos want to toughen, or straighten, or guide, or any other verbose usage of forcing their will upon another. They are the ones creating hell, in order to scare you, or anyone else,to submit to their will. Or maybe they slowly, and gently push you to their way by qouting a "good" book.
I believe in free will. All have the will to stay away from guys like Mugabe, yet they don't. Why? They do not practice free will. They believe in hell, the devil, demons, all sorts of nonsense; They are not taught hell is in their minds.
When you start believing in hell, hell starts believing in you. It starts creeping around every corner, in you tea, coffee, under your bed, search for hell and it will find you.
I am no expert on the "good" book, so if I understand correctly, evil, when it leaves this earthly existence goes to a place where there is no love from G-D. This, to me shows there is no correllation between evil and hell. Equating evil and hell, does no good. They are separate ideas, usually used by bullies to succumb you to their will. And not least, stop your free will.
Maybe "is there evil?" might be a better thread than "is there hell?'. Evil only happens when there is a lack of free will.
Dan

Muttdog;
You are correct & you are incorrect.
First, Hell is a real placee, not a situation you are in, even though you may consider it "hellish".As a place it should be capitalized as any town, country, etc. It was originally created by God to confine Satan & his followers until the time of their eventual destruction.
You are correct that God gave us all free will. He does not want slaves or robots, he wants people to come to him of their own volition.You need to understand that when you were born you were already cut off from God as were all men. This is because all man-kind died spiritually when Adam & Eve sinned & were cast out of the Garden of Eden and were cut off from God. He gave you free will to seek a way back to him. He sent His son Jesus to die for every ones sins. His blood washes them away. He gave you free will to accept that sacrifice or reject it. Accept it & you are welcomed into His family forever, in this life & the next. Reject it and you are still cut off from Him in this life & will go to Hell in the next as you have rejected His son who willingly sacrificed Himself for you. His mission here was to save you, not himself.
The other force in the world is Satan & the lesser fallen angels. All evil comes from him & these fallen angels and unregenerated (unsaved) people he uses like Hitler, Mogombe,Idi Amin, Attila the Hun & many more. God has allowed him to use some power for awhile, but that time is quickly coming to an end.
I am trying to keep this short and just stick to the basics. I hope you will get a good King James bible or modern translation and get familiar with it & find a bible teaching church & start attending (I personally prefer independent Baptists,though there are others). You cannot properly excercise your free will without knowing what the God that gave it to you intended for you to do
with it and the choices He gives you. I hope you choose wisely.
Al

[future pather]

Al,

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you, but I am always curious when someone posts like you did here bc they are so sure of what they are saying.

(I like to allow for a little more wiggle room )

Did you have some kind of experience that lead you to this conclusion?


Jessica

[ANTIQUER]

Al,

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you, but I am always curious when someone posts like you did here bc they are so sure of what they are saying.

(I like to allow for a little more wiggle room )

Did you have some kind of experience that lead you to this conclusion?


Jessica

Hi Jessica!
There is no wiggle room. Read John 3:16 AND 3:17. also Hebrews 10:29-31.
I have been a practicing, studying and teaching Christian since 1961. The experience I had then in asking Jesus to forgive me and come into my life I remember as if it were this a.m. You never forget when The Holy Spirit comes to live in you and replaces your old sinful nature with His peace and calm. I don't mean to imply I am perfect or some wacko holy man. Christians are not perfect, we still have to "fight the flesh daily" (Galatians 5:17) as Paul said, but we are forgiven and ,ultimately, that's all that matters.
Have to go now but always glad to help any way I can. Have a nice day.
Al

[future pather]

You never forget when The Holy Spirit comes to live in you and replaces your old sinful nature with His peace and calm.

Al

That's a great experience, thanks for sharing


Jessica

[muttdogg]

Do not capitalse hell

Al, and Future Pather;
Thanks for the responses! The thing I like about this site is I get real discussions. So many forums are heirarchal, so thanks again!
That said, now I can say my peace.
Al, Notice the actual name of the book you are reading: it is the King James version, just another interpretation of the good book. There are so many hidden texts not included in the western philosophy concerning the man Yeshua. And, yes it is a philosophy. Understanding the difference between what is and what you are taught, should be of great concern to any thinking person. Literal interpretations of any written word causes fights, hatred, and war. Reading the gnostic gospels may give you a different perspective of not only Yeshua, but how the movement in "Israel", during the first century, B.C.E., fomented the idea of Christianity. The most pertinent mis-interpretation of gross negligence in the King James version is: murder is said to be kill, one of the ten Commandments.
One other thing, notice how Yeshua gets more heroic as the four gospels in the good book go on?
Dan

[muttdogg]

Forgot

Believe in satan, he believes in you.

[ANTIQUER]

Al, and Future Pather;
Thanks for the responses! The thing I like about this site is I get real discussions. So many forums are heirarchal, so thanks again!
That said, now I can say my peace.
Al, Notice the actual name of the book you are reading: it is the King James version, just another interpretation of the good book. There are so many hidden texts not included in the western philosophy concerning the man Yeshua. And, yes it is a philosophy. Understanding the difference between what is and what you are taught, should be of great concern to any thinking person. Literal interpretations of any written word causes fights, hatred, and war. Reading the gnostic gospels may give you a different perspective of not only Yeshua, but how the movement in "Israel", during the first century, B.C.E., fomented the idea of Christianity. The most pertinent mis-interpretation of gross negligence in the King James version is: murder is said to be kill, one of the ten Commandments.
One other thing, notice how Yeshua gets more heroic as the four gospels in the good book go on?
Dan

Hi!Dan;
That's why I like it here too. If you want a discussion about K.J.version of the bible I'm up for it.
It was put together by a group of 56 educated men comprised of professors, priests(Anglican), laymen, etc. who were divided into groups. Each group took 4 or 5 chapters of what was available at the time which was largely the work of John Tyndall who spoke,read & understood 7or 8 languages including Greek, Latin,Aramaic and Hebrew. He had greatly used the work of Venerable Bede who eliminated much of the errors in supposed scriptures which had become corrupted over time. The group took their work and many manuscripts they had used (and others) and compared them. When the smaller unts were satisfied with their work they turned it over to the entire group of 57 to review. This went on for 3 years, along time in those days as they had no t.v.(LOL) or other modern distractions. When they were satisfied with it as a whole they presented it to King James for his review. He approved(authorized) it & had it distributed. If you would like to see if they were correct get a greek-english linear version. The K.J. is on a line with the literal translation word for word on a line right below. The Amplified is also good as it is a little more modern in wording and has every possible meaning of any word inserted in brackets. You can then compare that to the K.J.
Tyndall's work was so good 80% was not altered and the remainder had only minor changes. You should also know that the atmosphere in King James court was on a high intellectual and religious plane, So much so they regularly debated points of scripture in the original language.
Tyndall's reason for his work was to get a cohesive & correct bible in the english language so anyone could read it. Up until then most were in latin or greek which only the clergy could read. They were also mostly kept under lock & key or chained to the pulpit as most priest's felt the common man could not be trusted to interpret them, even if they could read them.
Therefore I believe the K.J. version to be the best bible available. that's why it has stood the test of time and is still the most published & widely read book in the world.
The Gnostic gospels(as they are incorrectly referred to)) were written by a religious group who even Paul condemned.They were referred to as "spurious Paulines" of I Tim.,II Tim. and Titus. Many believe they are Pre-Christian era. It was a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world(who is identified with the god of The Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ, a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world. The term "gnostic" comes from "gnosis", which means "knowledge" in Greek. They believed they were privy to a secret knowledge, hence the name. The early church fathers roundly dis-credited them and they largely disappeared off the scene. I have read some of them and consider them delusional, but then I have The Holy Spirit to aid me.
As for the use of kill instead of murder I am aware of it. I said it was the best available, not that it was perfect. The word "baptism" was also not a literal translation; "immersed" is. But as the Anglican church sprinkled it was Transliterated to satisfy King James as he was also head of the Anglican church.
Lastly, Christianity is not a philosophy. It is the system for people to live by, who when searching for God and the truth find it in Jesus. He said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father(God) except through me". Philosophy is man's thoughts on various topics,
which might be interesting, but will not get you into Heaven. Only Jesus can
do that.
I look forward to any other comments or discussion.
Al