What's your oponion about Hell?

[CaptainScat]

cffevans, no apology needed, i took no offense and i meant none.
this is one of the things about text conversations that has always bothered me, i wish there was some better way to convey the tone of my voice and the smile when i type. text is so black and white and a short sentence can seem terse even if not intended.



to elaborate a bit further on my feelings of hell being summarized by the Sartre quote... "other people" to me doesn't mean you or the lady next door or anything like that but more of the "voice of the storyteller", that cacophony of noise and confusion that bombards us daily.

[elias]

I not concerned about hell anymore,

Thank you all for this discussion, I am thinking about love and unity instead of Hell, and no matter it exists or not, I certainly don't want to go there, so I do not need to know how it is or where it is or why it is?

Love and Light,

Elias

[future pather]

"The word hell appears in the New Testament 23 times. It is one of the main themes repeating from Matthew to Revelation.

Just to set the record straight."

Mark,

I'm not sure what you are straightening out here. I don't agree that it is a main theme.

I have read the NT start to finish probably 4 times or more and just keep re-reading it.

The word appearing does not mean it goes on at lenght. I find most references vague and can not come up with any particular complete explanation of hell from the NT.

Revalations probably has the most references that may touch on the subject, but it is probably the most diffucult book to interpret as it is extremely esoteric and not at all logical.

We've got what 27 books in the NT each with many many words. 23 does not seem like a high number in that context to me.

Also, what does the quote you list really say about hell? I don't see anything there about the guy with the pitchfork.

I know Jesus and his family were Jewish and celebrated Jewish traditions. You could not really have read the whole NT and not figured that out. I have posted on that before.

XO Jessica

[future pather]

PS It is very easy to me to interperate the quote you put up as sin causing a hellish life on earth.

[future pather]

For the readers' understanding I find it also important to point out that Jesus spoke in parables and said that he did.

I wouldn't take the limb cutting off thing literally.


XO Jessica

[Grace]

The Divinity Of "ONE"

Hi Elias, This is my opinion of Good/Evil written eloquently here (in 1948) by Baird T. Spalding.

"I" in the individual is the first movement of his nature, the central point of his identity. "Am" is that which embodies, or embraces within the "I" - individual identity - whatever it encircles. The "I" is a positive assertion and the "Am" is the qualifying element. "I" is masculine and "Am" is the feminine principle. The "Am" brings forth into being whatever it embraces or conceives. The "Am" must become immaculate in its embracing power if man is to bring forth that which is in Spirit. "I", which is my identity in Spirit, "Am," that which embraces or embodies all that is in God, is the true use of these words. "I am THAT I am", which is the embodiment of God. I can never in reality be anything but THAT which it is in Spirit. "I am THAT I am, and beside me there is no other."

Many Hindoos use the I, while many use the I AM. It is thought by some that that was where duality began to manifest first - between the I and the I AM - many believing that this practice involved two attitudes or purposes, where in reality, it is but one correlation or subjugation of everything to the ONE Purpose. There is no duality of Principle but the Union of Principle in all things. They (the words "I AM") even pronounce the exact Principle of Truth. As they put it, the exaltation of the ONE principle allows it to work in that Principle conclusively. We do not see, either, the duality of nature and thus we do not recognize it. As duality has no recognition it becomes harmonized.

Summer and Winter are not two things but phases of one Nature. Winter is as essential to the growth of vegetation as is summer and only depicts two phases of a single process. What we call evil contains the germ of good and, when looked through to behold the good, the sense of evil disappears and there remains only the sense that all things are working together for good. The apparent evil surrounding conditions of poverty and pain that are shunned by human beings, if faced for the good within them, would vanish. Conditions in life that seem opposed to our highest good are but points of practice until we attain that strength of character to see and manifest only the perfection of the ONE. When life is seen in this way all unpleasantness vanishes and everything becomes a sort of practice game in which we see, live, move, and have being that the existing good may show forth in our own character, and in our world. Nature then is harmonious. All is harmony. All is working under the influence of the One Purpose.

NOW CLICK HERE TO SEE THE DIVINITY OF "ONE" EXPRESSED IN ONE WAY!

[CeCee]

[QUOTE=Grace;11668] Hi Elias, This is my opinion of Good/Evil written eloquently here (in 1948) by Baird T. Spalding.

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]"I" in the individual is the first movement of his nature, the central point of his identity. "Am" is that which embodies, or embraces within the "I" - individual identity - whatever it encircles. The "I" is a positive assertion and the "Am" is the qualifying element. "I" is masculine and "Am" is the feminine principle. The "Am" brings forth into being whatever it embraces or conceives. The "Am" must become immaculate in its embracing power if man is to bring forth that which is in Spirit. "I", which is my identity in Spirit, "Am," that which embraces or embodies all that is in God, is the true use of these words. "I am THAT I am", which is the embodiment of God. I can never in reality be anything but THAT which it is in Spirit. "I am THAT I am, and beside me there is no other."


Hi Grace,
Interesting that you would post the quote I was just thinking about posting The artist in the video is amazing!!!!
The Life and Teachings of the Eastern Masters is indeed a wonderful set of books that, I AM sure, have a profound effect on anyone who reads them.
I highly recommend them to anyone who feels the 'pull'.

Part of the All One,
Love, Light, Gratitude & Joy,
Maggie
Love,
Maggie

[sterlingpg]

Thank you elias

Thank you for the time and effort you put into your reply that discussed the Abraham stuff etc!

I think that in any spiritual teaching from any 'source', that this is not directly from Source, but rather filtered if you will, through the persons writing or speaking of the message. Thus, I always have an internal 'test' going on whether this or that which I am reading or hearing, is resonating with my own connection to Source, my own 'truth'. The discovery of this personal truth is part of the greatness that experiencing life is all about for me, so I don't have a problem with it, rather, I BLESS IT!

That being said, I am perhaps not up on Abraham as much as you, however, I do believe there is more that you will discover about what Abraham is actually saying on the points that you raise. For some time, I have noticed there is much that Abraham says by what 'they' do not say. I don't believe this is for any evil intent but rather, learning on many levels and I feel that Abraham's purpose is to raise consciousness that is generally at a certain point forward. We all have to start somewhere, and wherever we are, we find/create other things to help spur us to the next thing. What I'm saying is that Abraham is sharing things that will resonate for those at that 'level' that appeals and brings them forward to perhaps other teachers, writing or revelations. When I use the word 'level', I use it loosely as I do not wish to describe a situation of duality even in this, for there is no greater or worse level to be at, but rather just different points in remembering Who We Really Are.

For me personally, I have come to a place where I do not believe there are any things 'external' to me. Not governments, people, powers, entities etc - we are all truly One and experiencing different facets of Source which is through all, in all, and the All in ALL. The 'worst' in human behaviour only shows the great extent that we can forget who we really are.

Most of my life I was part of what many have called a cult - Jehovah's Witnesses, so I have a lot of experience with religious ideas and the Bible. I do not decry or denounce any of this - it had its perfect place in the gradual progression of remembering for me in this lifetime. Thus, I am grateful for this experience with the Witnesses. Where many are angry and hateful to a religion that has much deceit in it, I am thankful for knowing now what I no longer wish to experience. There were also many good times with fantastic people who only wished to do the best for their families and others. I left it several years ago for different experiences and a more useful worldview for me personally. For me, a 'belief' is something you tell yourself over and over or hear from others, so much that you eventually believe it is 'true'. However, beliefs are only 'truth' for that one person. No persons belief perfectly mirrors another's in any belief system, be it religion or otherwise. However, for some years now, I have preferred to believe, like Socrates, that I AM THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE WORLD - I KNOW NOTHING. Every box opens up inside another box. Life is like an onion (or Ogres are like onions, if you like Shrek lol) with infinite layers - when you peel one, there is another underneath it. What this means to me is that stopping at some point and declaring either inwardly or externally that 'I have the truth', I KNOW this, with a list of beliefs, only serves to close the door on the natural flow of increasing awareness of an infinite universe and Life. Thus, for me, there is no box, and the onion has infinite delicious layers!

I have found that all labels based in duality only lead to division of us and them or the chosen ones and the ones not chosen etc. For me, there is a wonderful place to transcend duality and experience a knowingness about the perfection of all creation and acceptance for the way things are as existing by perfect design, albeit an open-ended system that is ever-expanding along infinite lines. Even in the unmanifest, the Field, there seems total chaos but in there too, there are patterns.

I must share with you another reason I thank you for this thread. I obviously still had an 'egg' of self-limiting belief about duality and religious-based ideas, for I had some emotional reaction towards it. I thought to myself, how interesting! Lets see what THIS is about.
So my initial reaction to the subject brought this to light and allowed me to process it in peace. For that, I am grateful to you.

When I saw you post this later on, I had a burst of Joy for you:

I not concerned about hell anymore,
Thank you all for this discussion, I am thinking about love and unity instead of Hell, and no matter it exists or not, I certainly don't want to go there, so I do not need to know how it is or where it is or why it is?

In great gratitude and Peace,

tephen

[zartgirl]

Ahhhh Elias

I have been reading and following along with this thread from the beginning... I have to tell you I wanted to post, but something kept stopping me. Hmmmm... I think it was you as you were working through this!

Anyways, I like Stephen, am pleased to see that you came to a perfect conclusion! From the beginning when I first read the post... I really just wanted to tell you to "Move ON!" LOL! Not to be rude, but as in when you get stuck on one teachers teaching, then it is time to move on to something new! I find as I go through so much of what I learn here that I often have to process it and let it just sit for awhile, and eventually I either get it, or I forget all about it and have moved totally beyond it! Usually, it is the first one I get understanding from what I am reading! Here's the deal, you had to come to the point of move on, on your own!

I find all kinds of things that I ? at first, and second, and third, and and and... Then all of a sudden the answer of how those pieces fit together comes together in my head! I have had so many Ah HAH! moments here on this thread!!!! My friends here on the board are all so awesome and patient with me as I work through everything! I too came to here from a religious background. I was part of a Pentecostal Church, who preached love, but but but... Yea! I was angry and hurt and and and... Yea! For me it was like there was this place that said it was about Love, but then there was this place that practiced love! I have a painting I want to paint, and it is of the church putting God in a box, but he doesn't fit! It is so important to not try to put God in a box, cause he really doesn't fit in one... He just ooooooozzzzzes out all over the place! "He is the in-between the physical matter" as Grace so eloquently explained to me a while back! You can not squeeze the in-between into a box! None of this is new to me, as I was already starting to remember it way back when I was slowly leaving the church I belonged to! The vision of the box and God and the church had came to me way before I started learning here about things!

Here is the other thought I had for you way back in the beginning... You asked the question of who would feed the poor? Because, as we gain more consciousness we remember that we created everything... Right? Well here is the answer... As I gain more consciousness and I learn how I created all the situations in my life I have come to forgiveness of the people who have wronged me. I have reached an understanding of how we are all one, connected by spirit... Hmmmm... you know it is easy to say you love someone, but when you and I are one... Then suddenly it is no longer talk, but just natural to love you! I have learned one other little goodie, and that is "Fear" is a powerful emotion, and can manifest things into our lives fast! That said, I work very hard to always stay in gratitude, and praise to God, and avoid fear, anger, hate, and other slower frequency or negative thoughts that could manifest what I do not want!

Love and Gratitude
zartgirl Sj

[dannyboybell]

Spekaing of judging!

I was told about the book "The genie in your genes" here on the site so now I'm reading it and yesterday I came across an interesting study done by Gail Ironson(M.D., Ph.D, a leading mind-body medicine researcher, and professor of Psychology & Psychiatry at the University of Miami).

She studied the difference in believing in a Punishing(hell-sending) God vs believing in a benevolent, loving & forgiving god when it comes to progression of the HIV-virus and stated that:

"People who view God as a judgmental God have a CD4(T-helper) cell decline more than twice the rate of those who don't see God as judgmental, and their viral load increases more than three times faster. For example, a precise statement affirmed by these patients is - God will judge me harshly one day. This one item is related to an increased likelihood that the patient will develop an opportunistic infection and die. These beliefs predict disease progression even more strongly than depression."


So thinking you're being judged or punished when having a cold probably won't serve you if recovery is your goal.



Danny

[elias]

Excitement ...

Hello,

Thank you very very much for all of you ... I appreciate ALL of your replies very much.
And Sallyjane, I was indeed stopping you unconsciously. I am sure that I understand what you are saying now. I was looking for "someone" to learn something from, as an OLD habit, and now I am succeeding in letting go of it because I am now more aware of this bad habit that most of the people of most religions suffer from and makes them forget God. Looking for someone will make you forget that what you are seeing is a projection of yourself actually. When one learns something from someone, actually he/she is learning from himself/herself.
Actually I am witnessing how my true self is manifesting this (virtual) reality of ours. I am coming to believe that the universe is how one looks at it, and I am seeing how everyone is acting towards you as you believe so, very interesting!

How you believe the world is, the world is that way. I am now being able to put words of wisdom like a puzzle together and see what the whole picture is becoming like.

I was just wondering if one cannot find his true self in the world, what would happen to him/her after death. Of course there would be an extreme pain in releasing the false beliefs (And that is what I believe is defined in religious books as fire). But I don't get the idea that how may one stay in hell forever, as some religions state so? I mean if the fire is for purification of the soul, then why doesn't it purify the soul for some people?

I have no idea about if one will stay in fire forever or not. But at the present moment I don't think that anyone will stay forever, because of the purifying nature of fire. The fire burns the false beliefs and releases oneself.

I will indeed post new comments as I fit my infinite puzzle of truth together, to help other people to fit their puzzle together too.


Love and Light ...

Elias

[elias]

[QUOTE=MoxieMags;11676]

Hi Elias, This is my opinion of Good/Evil written eloquently here (in 1948) by Baird T. Spalding.

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]"I" in the individual is the first movement of his nature, the central point of his identity. "Am" is that which embodies, or embraces within the "I" - individual identity - whatever it encircles. The "I" is a positive assertion and the "Am" is the qualifying element. "I" is masculine and "Am" is the feminine principle. The "Am" brings forth into being whatever it embraces or conceives. The "Am" must become immaculate in its embracing power if man is to bring forth that which is in Spirit. "I", which is my identity in Spirit, "Am," that which embraces or embodies all that is in God, is the true use of these words. "I am THAT I am", which is the embodiment of God. I can never in reality be anything but THAT which it is in Spirit. "I am THAT I am, and beside me there is no other."


Hi Grace,
Interesting that you would post the quote I was just thinking about posting The artist in the video is amazing!!!!
The Life and Teachings of the Eastern Masters is indeed a wonderful set of books that, I AM sure, have a profound effect on anyone who reads them.
I highly recommend them to anyone who feels the 'pull'.

Part of the All One,
Love, Light, Gratitude & Joy,
Maggie
Love,
Maggie

Maggie,

Thank you for recommending, I am actually trying to see the truth wherever I can see. East, West, Middleeast, anywhere ... . That bad habit of seeing the truth only through a narrow perspective is killing me .

When I see some one with glasses I usually recommend the Bates Method. As I read your blog you believe in changing anything, why not change the habit of wearing Glasses. Reality is VERY VERY VERY different without glasses, if you learn to see, and let go of the mental strain, all is well.

For information visit David's website: Imagination Blindness - A Site Dedicated to the Bates Method of Natural Vision Improvement


God Bless,

[CeCee]

Bates Method

Hi Elias,
Thanks for the link - I had already checked it out when you posted it earlier and am doing some reading there now. And yes, I agree with your comment
"As I read your blog you believe in changing anything, why not change the habit of wearing Glasses. Reality is VERY VERY VERY different without glasses, if you learn to see, and let go of the mental strain, all is well."

Sounds like a plan to me!! - taking off the reading glasses is my goal.
Love,
Maggie

[zartgirl]

Elias, Way cool!

Yep! I figured it was you stopping me from posting! You were not ready for it! Hehehee! That is what is soooo perfect about living this way and being able to listen to the other person without ever talking to them! I have to say I was enjoying your progress as I followed the progression of the thread! I even went so far as to write you a PM and then deleted the whole thing!

I saved that link to the bates eyesight transformation! I want to read it not only for me, but for my daughter! Iza wears glasses the thickness of coke bottles! Here is the cool thing, she has actually made them improve from 400+ to 300+ she did it by believing they were getting better. She can not wait to go back in and have them tested again to see how much better they have gotten again! As far as me, I just got glasses and they drive me crazy! I prefer not to wear them! To me they feel like they don't belong there, so I am thinking that I could really use this site to get rid of them permanently!!! Thanks for posting it!

Blessings, Love, and Gratitude
Sallyjane zartgirl

[elias]

Just appreciation,

I have nothing more say for now, Just my appreciation to you ...

Elias