about the Ferrocell (ferrolens)

[Iamnuts]

I've been looking into this for years now and haven't got very far.
I'm a layman and it's led me into Feynman territory so I think it's
time for me to give up.

[dyetalon]

I've been looking into this for years now and haven't got very far.
I'm a layman and it's led me into Feynman territory so I think it's
time for me to give up.

I felt the same way once I realized I would learn more in the quantum realm.
Maybe you just need a break.

That's what I did in 2009. Got away from it. Had some time to think about other stuff -but damn, I got back into it again in 2014.

Magnetism is so awesome that it's addicting.

Who cares if we can't explain it to the 'Nth' degree.
It's kinda like comparing Religions. Different words telling the same story.

If we keep discussing what we see and what we measure we'll probably argue- its human nature; but if we have a little respect for our differences, we can argue without insulting each other. Just my thoughts...

[dyetalon]

Geeze. I didn't want to kill this thread.

Let's talk about nothing

From Wikipedia: "One of the earliest Western philosophers to consider nothing as a concept was Parmenides (5th century BC), who was a Greek philosopher of the monist school.
He argued that "nothing" cannot exist by the following line of reasoning: To speak of a thing, one has to speak of a thing that exists. Since we can speak of a thing in the past, this thing must still exist (in some sense) now, and from this he concludes that there is no such thing as change.
As a corollary, there can be no such things as coming-into-being, passing-out-of-being, or not-being."

OK, I get: even nothing is something!

This is the quantum place that everyone hates (including me).
But there's some interesting theories about the space between it all.
That's where you will find Aether theory, for one thing.

[Ufopolitics]

Well, your two pennies have matured into a couple of hundred bucks!

I agree with the CRT thing. I was putting magnets on Sony CRT's back in the 90's. When I saw the first dipole field using a Ferrocell, that's when I remembered where I had seen that image before.

Hello Dyetalon,

Well it is indeed interesting, even though Color (RGB) CRT's are a bit complex, since we must realize a few things when analyzing Magnetic Fields Imaging...

I was trying to answer this post last night...and for far better understanding..graphics are a most...and am still having issues with my graphics pc.

But, the field looks 90 degrees offset between the CRT images and Ferrocell images. A cylinder magnet on the CRT has one pole on the glass, but the magnet under the cell has each pole visible (sideways).
See pix:

Ok...first thing is to compare between both imaging devices ...

1- The Light Source versus the Imaging Planes relative positioning...This is very important...since your ferrocell lighting is Parallel to the Imaging Plane (visual screen)...while CRT's Beam/Plane (light source) is Perpendicular to fluorescent screen (Imaging Plane).
And so the Projection of Magnetic Field on both screens would be different by parallel to perpendicular relations...which generates a 90° offset.

2- Also, your Field Axis related to screen planes...is also perpendicular at CRT...while parallel to ferrocells lens.

3- CRT's, even B&W, have Double Rastering planes at Horizontal plus Vertical to generate a full screen...Now 3 guns RGB have also two rastered planes, except each plane contains the three color guns...so Magnetic Field decomposes all these combined gamma of colors to form the projected Field Spectrum.

About colors and their different propagated waves...you know better than me on the subject...

However...of all 3 above...main one is #1.

hope you could understand without any graphics...what I have tried to explain above so briefly.


Regards



Ufopolitics.

[Ufopolitics]

About an Experiment with ferrofluids...

@Dyetalon,

I have a question Timm...I just received some FERROFLUID and I want to do a pretty simple experiment...However I need your advice as you or someone else may have done it before.

Ferrofluid I got is oil based...so I want to dilute a pretty light amount ( not too concentrated) with an oil base clear solution...on a clear container then set a magnet in the center of the volume, then apply lights to see if ferrofluid would form the field shape within mixed solution...where imaging of Field should come up in 3D.

What do you think outcome results be?

Have you done this?... or ever seen this experiment done before?

I have seen it with Iron Filings...but not with ferrofluids.


Thanks!


Ufopolitics

[dyetalon]

@Dyetalon,

I have a question Timm...I just received some FERROFLUID and I want to do a pretty simple experiment...However I need your advice as you or someone else may have done it before.

Ferrofluid I got is oil based...so I want to dilute a pretty light amount ( not too concentrated) with an oil base clear solution...on a clear container then set a magnet in the center of the volume, then apply lights to see if ferrofluid would form the field shape within mixed solution...where imaging of Field should come up in 3D.

What do you think outcome results be?

Have you done this?... or ever seen this experiment done before?

I have seen it with Iron Filings...but not with ferrofluids.


Thanks!


Ufopolitics

I don't have time right now to answer your CRT comment, but I have a couple of minutes to answer this one.
Yes, I've done this before, but haven't had satisfactory results that I felt comfortable selling as a reliable product on my site.

But Mike Palazzola has done quite a few custom mixtures. Check his Youtube channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ9...8PnjmGUXKVBh_g

[bistander]

Nothing

Geeze. I didn't want to kill this thread.

Let's talk about nothing

From Wikipedia: "One of the earliest Western philosophers to consider nothing as a concept was Parmenides (5th century BC), who was a Greek philosopher of the monist school.
He argued that "nothing" cannot exist by the following line of reasoning: To speak of a thing, one has to speak of a thing that exists. Since we can speak of a thing in the past, this thing must still exist (in some sense) now, and from this he concludes that there is no such thing as change.
As a corollary, there can be no such things as coming-into-being, passing-out-of-being, or not-being."

OK, I get: even nothing is something!

This is the quantum place that everyone hates (including me).
But there's some interesting theories about the space between it all.
That's where you will find Aether theory, for one thing.

Several times you have referred to "nothing" in the middle of the magnet. I have said, concerning the middle, "nothing special". In other words, the magnet is a homogeneous mixture of grains, domains, and/or particles, so any cross section perpendicular to the axis of magnetization is essentially the same, including the middle.

For the most part, we speak of PMs, permanent magnets. But magnetic fields are also produced by EMs, electromagnets. I contend, and am not alone, that an external magnetic field produced by a PM or by an EM, is indistinguishable to the other. Therefore, is the middle of an air core coil, which is energized and producing a magnetic field, nothing? I say no. There is the magnetic field there.

So, what is nothing? I think nothing is only before and after the Universe. That which is forever hidden from us. Therefore, we know nothing.

Then what is in the vastness of expanse, and inspanse (word?), in between the bits of matter and energy we can detect? Is this nothing? I say no. I believe the Universe is completely filled with fields.

We know some fields. Like gravity, magnetic, electric, but I doubt we know all fields. Is there an aether field? Is there a nothing field? Time field? Life field?

Regards,

bi

[Markoul]

Hello Dyetalon,

Well it is indeed interesting, even though Color (RGB) CRT's are a bit complex, since we must realize a few things when analyzing Magnetic Fields Imaging...

I was trying to answer this post last night...and for far better understanding..graphics are a most...and am still having issues with my graphics pc.




Ok...first thing is to compare between both imaging devices ...

1- The Light Source versus the Imaging Planes relative positioning...This is very important...since your ferrocell lighting is Parallel to the Imaging Plane (visual screen)...while CRT's Beam/Plane (light source) is Perpendicular to fluorescent screen (Imaging Plane).
And so the Projection of Magnetic Field on both screens would be different by parallel to perpendicular relations...which generates a 90° offset.

2- Also, your Field Axis related to screen planes...is also perpendicular at CRT...while parallel to ferrocells lens.

3- CRT's, even B&W, have Double Rastering planes at Horizontal plus Vertical to generate a full screen...Now 3 guns RGB have also two rastered planes, except each plane contains the three color guns...so Magnetic Field decomposes all these combined gamma of colors to form the projected Field Spectrum.

About colors and their different propagated waves...you know better than me on the subject...

However...of all 3 above...main one is #1.

hope you could understand without any graphics...what I have tried to explain above so briefly.


Regards



Ufopolitics.

Dear Ufopolitcs,

Am I the only one who sees the same pattern or what?
Keep always in mind that we see a compressed and some cases expanded 2D image of a 3D space Euclidean field! Don't get confused, keep focused!


Fig.A They are all the same

1- The Light Source versus the Imaging Planes relative positioning...This is very important...since your ferrocell lighting is Parallel to the Imaging Plane (visual screen)...while CRT's Beam/Plane (light source) is Perpendicular to fluorescent screen (Imaging Plane).
And so the Projection of Magnetic Field on both screens would be different by parallel to perpendicular relations...which generates a 90° offset.

This is not true... Led are not Lasers they may be point like light sources however the light is scattered omnidirectional. Also you don's see the electron beam! You see the omnidirectional light emmited by the phosphorus of the screen when excited by the electron beam. So not really, light in both cases crt and ferrocell more or less is omnidirectional. Although in the ferrocell you can say light is more focused and therefore wire frame of image field is more apparent and finer.

2- Also, your Field Axis related to screen planes...is also perpendicular at CRT...while parallel to ferrocells lens

See at the picture at Fig.A, both magnets are placed sideways on the glass. N-S axes of the magnets are in parallel to the thin film of phosphorus on the CRT and the thin film of ferrofluid on the ferrocell, Why you say they are different?

3- CRT's, even B&W, have Double Rastering planes at Horizontal plus Vertical to generate a full screen...Now 3 guns RGB have also two rastered planes, except each plane contains the three color guns...so Magnetic Field decomposes all these combined gamma of colors to form the projected Field Spectrum.

I agree electron beam sweap momentum must somehow influence the image outcome however I believe not to a point to totally deform the field image.


Coming back to the picture of Fig.A i have made.

In the CRT image of Fig.A at the middle above the lines supposedly showing to go between N and S poles is an optical illusion by the CRT. In reality it is the Bloch domain wall disk shown in all pictures with the yellow arrows. The CRT is just projecting vertically to the ground although try to imagine the disk horizontal to the ground!

To see the field without any 2D deformations and illusions we have to project it back in 3D. This can be done:

I present you the ferrohologram!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=7YWTtCsvgvg[/VIDEO]

I think I give it a try... feel free everyone to do the same.


I wonder if it is possible placing various ferrocells and mirrors also to make the first ferroholocell?!!

my2cents

EM

[bistander]

Different

Dear Ufopolitcs,

Am I the only one who sees the same pattern or what?
Keep always in mind that we see a compressed and some cases expanded 2D image of a 3D space Euclidean field! Don't get confused, keep focused!


Fig.A They are all the same...

2- Also, your Field Axis related to screen planes...is also perpendicular at CRT...while parallel to ferrocells lens

See at the picture at Fig.A, both magnets are placed sideways on the glass. N-S axes of the magnets are in parallel to the thin film of phosphorus on the CRT and the thin film of ferrofluid on the ferrocell, Why you say they are different?
...

You changed the magnet on the CRT.

... A cylinder magnet on the CRT has one pole on the glass, but the magnet under the cell has each pole visible (sideways).
See pix:

[Ufopolitics]

You changed the magnet on the CRT.

Nope...Markoul turned the ferrocell image, not the CRT Image

[bistander]

Obviously

Nope...Markoul turned the ferrocell image, not the CRT Image

Yes. Obviously the ferrocell image is rotated.

Dyetalon even says "A cylinder magnet on the CRT has one pole on the glass". Markoul's magnetic axis is parallel to the CRT screen.

Also, did you note Markoul's statement "Also you don's see the electron beam! You see the omnidirectional light emmited by the phosphorus of the screen when excited by the electron beam."? Like what I was telling you when discussing deflection vs rotation.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

@Markoul:

My friend...I see exactly what u see...

Now, I was referring to the relation between 1-Screen where we see Field Versus 2- Light Source.
No matter if light is omnidirectional (as a whole) when photons are traveling through the less concentrated Ferro particles it shows Us "the field" on the glass lens.

Now, look at just the light which is doing this...then establish a traveling path which is going through ferrocell GLASS EDGE...them we realize light path and ferrocell lens are PARALLEL.

CRT: Electron Gun have a Positively HV Metal frame around screen...this fact plus all reflectors on gun, forces beam to go directly plus PERPENDICULAR to Screen


get it?


Regards



Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Yes. Obviously the ferrocell image is rotated.

Dyetalon even says "A cylinder magnet on the CRT has one pole on the glass". Markoul's magnetic axis is parallel to the CRT screen.

Also, did you note Markoul's statement "Also you don's see the electron beam! You see the omnidirectional light emmited by the phosphorus of the screen when excited by the electron beam."? Like what I was telling you when discussing deflection vs rotation.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

Sorry but Markoul CRT Image is not with magnet axis parallel to screen...it is the same as Dyetalon's...except Markoul's magnet is set further away from screen.

When you place magnet parallel to CRT Screen, you get Four Circles...two above ( on say North top)...and Two below where South would be.

center is just a Divergence of straight lines as in ferrocells.

I have several graphics of this three dimensional model of parallel magnet on top of CRT screen...

You could see it on my video Iron and Light.


Regards



Ufopolitics

[Markoul]

@Markoul:

My friend...I see exactly what u see...

Now, I was referring to the relation between 1-Screen where we see Field Versus 2- Light Source.
No matter if light is omnidirectional (as a whole) when photons are traveling through the less concentrated Ferro particles it shows Us "the field" on the glass lens.

Now, look at just the light which is doing this...then establish a traveling path which is going through ferrocell GLASS EDGE...them we realize light path and ferrocell lens are PARALLEL.

CRT: Electron Gun have a Positively HV Metal frame around screen...this fact plus all reflectors on gun, forces beam to go directly plus PERPENDICULAR to Screen


get it?


Regards



Ufopolitics

My friend Ufopolitcs,

Sorry but light is not behaving like you describe, at least not for a non laser light.

Cover the edge perimeter of your ferrocell with black electrical tape and try it out. Ferrocell will show just fine... as long as their is a little spacing left from the tip of the LEDS to the ferrocell perimeter. Neither you can say that the light from the light ring is "skimming" the ferrocell glass surface.

Yes, i am aware of the cathode ray tube operation and I agree with you. And yes magnetic field vector when pole is placed on the crt screen is 180 degrees oposite to electron beam. Electron beam is here the analogue to the nanoparticles inside the ferrofluid. In both cases magnetic vectror B is opposite to the magnetic material as I see it, either it is a Fe3O4 particle or an electron...no difference here i believe.

Kind Regards

EM

[Markoul]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECokfl2y0Fs[/VIDEO]


Sorry Ken, but nothing is reciprocating here from North to South and vice versa.