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  • #76
    Hi Dan;

    Glad you started it; good discussions on a "nothing is more important" subject.

    By the way, although Aaron answered your question on topological, I would add we use it to mean discussions of multiple meanings or lessons which are or might be contained in a verse or passage besides the obvious and primary one. You are correct the term originated in topography and mathematics.

    Until next time, God loves you anyway! ROFl!!

    Al.
    Antiquer

    Comment


    • #77
      Well...

      Sam,
      We could certainly go on and on with this thread...

      There are many views of the Bible...

      It does point to love and forgiveness as Christs teachings in the New Testament.

      Christ tried to simplify the Old Testament Law the 10 Commandments into 2 items.

      A Love God
      B Love others as yourself

      His coming and sacrifice was a example of Gods love for his creations.

      Do not rely on your own mind created by God to understand his...

      Or how even his Dreams and plans for us and other creations have come to pass.

      There are other books out there but dont confuse fact with fiction.
      Or lies with Truth. Please think about what you read and enjoy!

      W
      "But ye shall receive power..."
      Acts 1:8

      Comment


      • #78
        Agreement

        Hey Al,
        There you go again, agreeing with me.
        Hey Wpage,
        Got a name? Yes we could go on and on. That's the idea of this thread. I say this as a fellow seeker of what is the meaning of this life we call ours. If you think you have definitively answered the question, dream on, big guy. You been dead? Can answer for all the dead people before? We strive to acknowledge what it is we cannot see. There is where our faith lies. When one or another of us questions the "standard" truth the religious government steps in. Aka; using the standardized version of "their" texts to amplify, or mandate their version of interpretation of their religious works. Thereby rendering any questioner of these truths to be inconsequential, because the answerer never actually addresses the questioners' truth.
        We are here to argue ideas, not fight, or convert others to any way of religions. that any observes,is not their way. Please continue on, all have something to say here, for the main reason: none of us are dead, so it is impossible for any of us to know what happens after. But we may offer comfort and hope to those around us that may be on a path similar to our own.

        Comment


        • #79
          Gospel of St Barnabas

          Hey Sam,
          I am wondering why you chose the Gospel of Barnabas to post here in this thread. Of all the forgotten gospels, Barnabas is surely the most controversial. My knowledge may be incorrect, so please, enlighten me.
          As far as I know this gospel was well known at the time of the origin of the Catholic church, but was rejected because it had little new information of Yeshua. However, the Muslims, much later, used this gospel as a way of showing Yeshua was merely a prophet, not the Messiah. Whether he was a prophet or Messiah is not my point. Much as the Gospels of Peter and Thomas, to name a few from the find at Nag Hammadi, there is sufficient proof that at least the Nag Hammadi texts were written some where close to Yeshua's time, as was Barnabas'. So, with that said, are you a Muslim? I would be extremely happy to have any faith here on this thread. There is much to be learned from any religious point of view. And you would be as welcome as anyone else. None of has died yet, so we all hope the community here, even if we disagree, is able to show us, individually, how to cope with this crazy little thing called life. Or love.
          Dan

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Samemf View Post
            Hi ANTIQUER,

            Thanks for the reply

            erm heres some of the quotes from the bible i was refering too


            Matt.10

            [5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
            [6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
            [7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

            Matt.15
            24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            inheriting our fathers sins i think not

            Ezek.18

            20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


            I personally do not beleive jesus the son of mary was nothing more than A mighty prohet of god and a sign unto mankind

            Num.23
            [19] God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

            where jesus is referred as the son of man many times

            jesus's birth was miraculous without the intervention of sperm , this is a miricale

            but dont forget johns birth is also a miricale as zakariah was like 100 years old and his mother 90 way past menapause , but God answered his prayers and said you will have a son , zakariya said how my back is dry and my wife is baren ( i would also want to know how in his position)

            And dont forget Adam had no mother or father , His is a better miricale than jesus's birth .


            in conclusion I think that the bible has been corrupted and changed over the centuries and we need to be careful

            I mean the king james version of the bible is in engish and there was no english language until 1066AD when the normans invaded the saxons .
            Therefore the english bible cannot be anything like what any of the prophets spoke or understood , as it did not exist in their time .

            erm inregards to the trinity where does this exist in the bible ,
            the whole nature of the 3=1 or 1+1+1=1 to me is fundamentally flawed

            who sits , who stands , who makes judment , does the father sit above and son and the holy ghost sit side by side ?

            This in my opinion is madeup entirly by man and is a contradiction to jesus teaching , the lord thy god is one .
            which was the univeral message of all the prophets of God .

            Zech.14
            [9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


            in the next verses and many simular to it I doubt jesus is refering to himslef as god

            Matt.4
            [7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
            [10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


            Id be interested to find a verse personally in the bible that says "I am god worship me "



            Inregards to reading the koran , I am finding it fascinating read thus far .

            iregards to the word ALLAH, it is GOD in english the same god of adam , moses , abraham , and jesus , and all of us , I think the Ilah in other languages , god in english .

            Sam
            peace
            Hey Sam;

            If you want to check out Mohammad and the Qu'ran (Koran) here's a great website- "Prophet of Doom.net." The title refers to the doom he predicted would occur in 1125 A.D. but didn't. Covers life of Mohammad, all books of the Koran, it's sources, explanations, etc. I think you will find it very enlightening and why some of it is close to the Bible account's of Jesus or any other events.

            Al.
            Antiquer

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by muttdogg View Post
              Hey Al,
              There you go again, agreeing with me.
              Hey Wpage,
              Got a name? Yes we could go on and on. That's the idea of this thread. I say this as a fellow seeker of what is the meaning of this life we call ours. If you think you have definitively answered the question, dream on, big guy. You been dead? Can answer for all the dead people before? We strive to acknowledge what it is we cannot see. There is where our faith lies. When one or another of us questions the "standard" truth the religious government steps in. Aka; using the standardized version of "their" texts to amplify, or mandate their version of interpretation of their religious works. Thereby rendering any questioner of these truths to be inconsequential, because the answerer never actually addresses the questioners' truth.
              We are here to argue ideas, not fight, or convert others to any way of religions. that any observes,is not their way. Please continue on, all have something to say here, for the main reason: none of us are dead, so it is impossible for any of us to know what happens after. But we may offer comfort and hope to those around us that may be on a path similar to our own.
              Hey Dan;

              You also might like to check out the website "Prophet of Doom.net" that I suggested to Sam. Go to the epilogue page. I only suggest it as it is extremely well written by a man who believes in yeshua(as you call him) and I think you will enjoy his take on goverment, religion, political correctness, etc.

              Al.
              Antiquer

              Comment


              • #82
                Hi thanks for the link I have checked it out , its full of deceit and truth but out of context , Its a classic islam and koran basher site ,

                I can get you many many links that have the same sort of approach to
                dismiss christianity , judism , even budism .. unconstructive in my opinion .

                The best way to learn and discover is to goto the source yourself and check it out , thats what im doing .

                The koran which im currently reading is very interesting , it claims to be the word of god , There are also other text which are called hadith , hadith is merley a compilation of the prophets sayings passed on from generation to generation Different from the koran and not a revelation from God , Also there are now authentisised hadith in which the chain from generation is unbroken , and weak hadith where chain is broken .

                In regards to the koran , this is what I have learned thus far .

                That God is One , the only , The sustainer , the Most gracious , The most merciful. That he has no partners , daughters , or sons.

                That All the prophets from Adam , noah , Yusuf , jonah , Abraham , isaac , Ismail , moses , Zacariya , jesus , john the baptist , and mohammad ( going by memory ) are all prophets of God .

                A whole chapter dedicated to the mother of jesus (bible dosent even have a chapter call "Mary" which I found odd (considering some call Mary the mother of god)

                In chapter Mary , it mentions Marys mother hannah , her linage , how Mary was born and how she grew up , who took care of her , her miracle virgin birth of jesus without the intervention of a Male . How the people would accuse her , how god instructed her to merly point to the child , jesus (peace be upon him) birth etc ..

                The another chapter called the prophets mentions most prophets of God .
                ther missions and the people they went to warn .

                Jesus the son of Mary in the koran States the jesus,s name will be the massiah ,And that jesus is with god as we speak and will return .

                ALL this comming from the Koran ? unbeleivable I expected the opposite but I think that was from a little sterotyping and conditioning from the world we live in .

                Sam

                Comment


                • #83
                  Qur'an:5:46 "And in their (the earlier prophets) footsteps We sent Jesus the son o Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God."


                  Try this link "answering prophetofdoom.net" lol we could do this all day *s*


                  Sam

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Koran

                    Hey Samemf;
                    C'mon continue your posts. Keep in mind,others may not agree with you. If you are studying the Koran, but not yet a disciple, say so. I, for one, would like to hear all of your arguements, pro and con. Whether it be Yeshua, Yehova, or Mohammed. or any combination of of them, worry not about posts contrary to your views. Whether or not these writers steer us towards this or that phrase in their "good" book, is not what we, as people,striving for meaning of life and death, are looking for.
                    Yes, you, and I will have differences of opinion on where our soul goes after death, and whether this, or that holy speaker speaks the truth. If you are here to debate the knowledge of others,who might disagree with your opinion, so as to enlighten yourself further, please continue. If you want to post so others must fight against, or for you, please post again. This the area your Mother warned against
                    Dan

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Doom

                      Hey Al;
                      Yes, looked at prophetofdoom website.About as dopey as the hell website. You may not be the internet geek I thought you were. No. No. No.
                      Dan

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Samemf View Post
                        Qur'an:5:46 "And in their (the earlier prophets) footsteps We sent Jesus the son o Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God."


                        Try this link "answering prophetofdoom.net" lol we could do this all day *s*


                        Sam
                        Hey Sam;
                        Checked the site out. I will confine my comments to the page there titled "Son of Who" as I am knowledgeable about the Bible verses they quote but not an authority on the Koran and don't wish to be. I know of the life of Mohammed from secular history which I believe to be accurate. I don't consider his writings anymore inspired than Mao's, Hitler's, Stalin's, or Lenin's. I go by the results of his life and teachings as by their's.

                        That said I am going to address some, not all, of the more obvious mistakes they have made as there are to many to answer in one post.
                        (1) They reference mk. 1:35. Nothing they quote as to Gabriel or the House of Jacob occurs in the whole chapter.
                        (2)They cite Luke 3:36 and use this verse as proof Jesus was not the Son of God as he's not so named in this list. The reference is wrong, should be vs. 38. Second the whole passage lists the geneology of Mary back to Adam who was the only one in the list directly created by God with no earthly parents, so of course he is the only one listed as the son of God. Notice it is a small "s" in son. He was not the Son of God, only Jesus was. In Luke 22:69, when addressing the Sanhedrin, Jesus says "Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.", speaking of himself. Only an equal of God the Father could sit on His right on His Throne.
                        (3) Several verses in John are mentioned where Jesus is referred to as The Messiah or the Son of God, but they claim no verse ever makes the exact statement that Jesus is or was God. Jesus is referred to by many names, all correct in the context of the discusson, statement, etc. where they are used. But they have ignored John 10:30. Vs. 23-39 are about Jesus answering a group of Jews who were basically asking him the same question. His reply is" I and my Father are one". They understood what he said and sought to stone him. Check Hebrews 1:1-8 where it says"But unto the SON He saith"THY throne, O GOD, is forever and ever." In John 14:9 He answers Philip and says "he that hath seen ME hath seen the Father."
                        (4)John 20:31 is given as another proof when Martha refered to Jesus as "the Son of God". Notice she said "the" Son of God, not "a" Son of God. The very reference they use contradicts what they claim.
                        (5) Several Old Testament prophets are mentioned as true prophets of God, including Isiah. Yet they ignore Isiah 1:7 which says " a virgin shall coneive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel( which means God with Us.) This was repeated to Joseph in Matt. 1:20-25 where the angel of the Lord appears to him in a dream and tells him Mary's child is to be named Jesus. Gabriel appears to Mary in Luke 1:26-35 and tells her the same thing.

                        (6) They twist John 5:28. Here Jesus is answering a bunch of Pharisees(the overtly religious crowd) and tells them in vs. 56 "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day". In vs. 58 he tells them "before Abraham was, I am", using the exact phrase God gave Moses to identify himself as the eternal God. He was saying he was God; these Pharisees knew exactly what he meant and tried to stone him as a blasphemer that was claiming he was God.
                        Then they pull John 3:16 out of context. Read it all (vs. 10-21), especially vs. 18. It says if you don't believe ON him you are condemned already. Believing or not believing ON a Prophet does not condemn you, only not believing ON Jesus as he is the Son of God and God incarnate.
                        Well, so many questions, so little time. I'll leave it here for now as this is already long and a lot to consider. If you have any more questions just ask; always glad to answer.

                        Al.
                        Antiquer

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Doors to heaven

                          To anyone who cares,
                          Their are many doors, or paths to heaven. Whichever one you choose should be tempered with respect to all others not following the same route. If there is a singular god, each path and door, will have an opening allowing for individual seekers the same access.
                          When adoration, thereby excluding others not following the exact same path, for certain differing peoples, becomes the only way, that is the path to ruin and war.
                          I do not, and never will adore any religious figure. It is a fool's errand. Love my fellow man, or woman? Yes, of course. Follow the basic tenets you learned as a child. No god wrote these stories, man did. The sooner that is learned, the sooner peace will follow. Not only in your heart, but all through humankind. Being civil towards others is the acme of love, which, I assume is what we all want.
                          Dan

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by muttdogg View Post
                            To anyone who cares,
                            Their are many doors, or paths to heaven. Whichever one you choose should be tempered with respect to all others not following the same route. If there is a singular god, each path and door, will have an opening allowing for individual seekers the same access.
                            When adoration, thereby excluding others not following the exact same path, for certain differing peoples, becomes the only way, that is the path to ruin and war.
                            I do not, and never will adore any religious figure. It is a fool's errand. Love my fellow man, or woman? Yes, of course. Follow the basic tenets you learned as a child. No god wrote these stories, man did. The sooner that is learned, the sooner peace will follow. Not only in your heart, but all through humankind. Being civil towards others is the acme of love, which, I assume is what we all want.
                            Dan
                            Hey Dan;

                            This is where I totally disagree with you and here are my reasons (look out, here come those verses!):

                            I Cor. 1:12-Now we (Christians) have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
                            I Cor.3: 19-20. "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain."
                            I Cor. 1:18"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God". Vs.21-24" For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."
                            Peter the Apostle addressing the Sanhedrin(Jewish High Council) in Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
                            John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me."
                            Matt.5:39-48. "But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.----But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven----."
                            Romans 12:17-21. "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath; for it is written, Vengence is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him. if he thirst, give him drink; for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
                            Mk. 12:31. "---Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.---"

                            There are only 2 kinds of people in the world, The "Natural Man" and the "Born Again" regenerated man who follows Christ's ways. I have shown them above. However gifted, moral, or refined, the natural man is absolutely blind to spiritual truth, and impotent to enter the kingdom; for he can neither obey, understand, nor please God.
                            You claim to follow Yeshua's teachings, where are they different?
                            I'll tell you. You believe "in" Jesus, not "on" him as far as I can tell. He said "you must be born again" to enter His kingdom and family, you believe you can "think" your way in. If you die believing that I think he will tell you when you stand before Him "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity."(Matt. 7:21-23.)
                            I do respect you as a person, but unless you can offer me or anyone else some proof of your beliefs(whatever they are), as I have mine, why should any one believe yours?
                            Antiquer

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              The only way

                              I agree with Antiquer here. The teaching of the Bible & Christ the only way...

                              There is no war in the teaching of Christ and Love

                              However its up to you to decide.

                              "You must be born again" John 3:3
                              Last edited by wpage; 07-19-2008, 02:33 PM.
                              "But ye shall receive power..."
                              Acts 1:8

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I have always beleived that when jesus refers to "my Father" This is the Same As "our father"

                                Therefore I can Also refer to God as My father and jesus did .

                                Even in the lords prayer "oh OUR father "


                                heres an interesting quote
                                john
                                17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'

                                Therefore we are All the sons of GOD , Thats what i beleive jesus meant and not in the literal sense .
                                john
                                28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I

                                Greater than I .

                                even other prophets of god were called the son of god in the bible
                                Just to mention a few
                                jacob
                                solomon
                                david ..


                                This was in a metapharical sense and not in a literal sense .
                                Yes we are all the sons of god ,its just a term or repect in that god is our creator .
                                Jesus is sayin the same thing , he himself worshipped god and not himself and taught us to worship like he did and pray like he did .

                                Instead we want to make him a god and worship him .

                                On another note ,
                                I was wondering what you feel when you see the cross ,
                                Ill tell you what I see when I see the cross ,
                                I see blood , suffering , Barbarism , Dictatorship, why?

                                Because that was what the cross was used for by dictators
                                Crusifiction was being done all the way back to the days of pharoah .
                                And its a sign of Barbarism .

                                I have often wondered That If the romans Had invented electricity and used the electric chairs to kill their victims , would everyone have been hanging up electric chairs on the wall and around their necks .

                                I personally dont take the Bible as The word of God (new testament Mathew mark luke or john ) , as I stated before as these were accounts of jesus's apparent days on earth , and are more like history record and not a revelation in the sense of the "word of God" if you know what I mean .

                                Also If indeed lets say that jesus is As i say < A mighty prophet of God !
                                A sign sent unto mankind , Does this belittle jesus in anyway ? Not to me it doesnt he deserves the full recognition and respect as moses , abraham and all the prophets of God .

                                Sam

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