Recession Ending

[noises]

I know how to make damper, and what seeds to collect to make flour. Tastes better and is better for you than the store bought processed sawdust they call a loaf of bread these days. As long as there's mangos in the trees, yams in the ground, fish in the sea, game in the rainforest, I'll be allright, jack (sound familiar, capitalism?) *shrug* it's not my economy that's failing.

[Mrenergy]

I know how to make damper, and what seeds to collect to make flour. Tastes better and is better for you than the store bought processed sawdust they call a loaf of bread these days. As long as there's mangos in the trees, yams in the ground, fish in the sea, game in the rainforest, I'll be allright, jack (sound familiar, capitalism?) *shrug* it's not my economy that's failing.

Nothing wrong with excluding yourself from society, or at least isolating yourself financially. But I think this post was about whether the recession was over or not.

We moved to a remote place in the mountains to insulate ourselves from most worldly problems. We eliminated the mortgage, paid off the cars, grew most of our own food, grew chickens for eggs, etc, and set up solar and wind for power. It's about creating less of an impact on the planet, and making sure we can survive just about anything.

But regardless of all this we still see family and friends hurting like never before. And of course most dont want to do what we do simply because it's a harder way of life in some ways. It requires sacrifices alot of people don't want to make. The recession in this case is certainly not "over".

Tad

[noises]

The recession in this case is certainly not "over".

Tad

No, of course not! Man, too much work has gone into creating this economic crisis for it to end prematurely. We still have to wait for the IMF riot, massive civil unrest in the US and the resulting domestic martial law, the induced mass hysteria and resultant violence, asset stripping and ongoing bailouts, the next spruiking by the finance journalists of some "recovery upswing" to prompt people to sink the last of what they have into the stock markets to 'profit from the turnaround' sorry, was just interrupted by a phone call from some multi level marketer with "fantastic opportunity" to talk to me about they never quit.

Money isn't the root of all evil. The things people do in the frantic effort to amass it is. Beyond that, I've lost my train of thought. I find it really hard to stay interested in discussions about money, since I don't care all that much about it, especially when I'm distracted by greedy little self absorbed profit sharks nudging me to see if I'm an easy meal. I'm going to make some music and mellow out.

[Nadda]

but since it involves a system I was never welcomed to be a part of, I could care less

No system is perfect. Mankind isnt perfect. Capitalism was created with the understanding that humans are not perfect. Thats why checks and balances are placed in every branch of government. Its the reason why no single religion is accepted over any other, and why no single ethic group is above the rest. Capitalism does not garuntee success and happiness but it does give you every opertunity to achieve it for yourself. Every single person in the united states has the ultimate freedom to pursue any venture that their heart desires. With internet access alone people can educate and train themselves on pratically every single field and profession. Good luck having those freedoms in a communist country and good luck creating a sucessful business and earning profits in a socialist country.

I'm poor too noises, i grew up in a trailor park and never made it past 9th grade. But i have a bright future. I'm 21, im a part time licensed realtor a part time software programmer and a full time construction contractor. I'm still living with my parents but im saving everything i earn to invest in extremely cheap forclosures that banks are begging to get rid of. For cash investors there is a hugh market for real estate forclosures. Properties that were worth 60,000 are selling for under 10,000 (In my area).

I've been working everyday because i diversified myself. Most of what i know i learned from the internet. I thank god for my freedom.

I dont blame the recession on capitalism. I blame it on the people with power who operate inside capitalism. Weather it was the government relaxing regulations on lending restrictions which created the amount of toxic assests that crippled banks or the unions who have been ballooning pensions for the state employees crippling the state budgets. Thats only two examples of the corrupt people who created this recession.

[noises]

I dont blame the recession on capitalism. I blame it on the people with power who operate inside capitalism. Weather it was the government relaxing regulations on lending restrictions which created the amount of toxic assests that crippled banks or the unions who have been ballooning pensions for the state employees crippling the state budgets. Thats only two examples of the corrupt people who created this recession.

Corruption? Whoa, hold on, those guys are just good capitalists who're seeking to explore their ultimate freedom to pursue any venture that their heart desires. Just because they profited to the tune of trillions and you didn't doesn't mean they're corrupt. That sounds like sour grapes.

What about the US (factory) farmers who take millions in govt. subsidies to continue to produce unprofitably? Is that capitalism? What's a bailout for a failed bank, is that capitalism? What freedoms are you talking about, the freedom to try and ultimately fail to cut yourself a fair share share of the capitalism cake? The freedom to exploit your employees, to use their efforts for your profits? Now I know that's capitalism.

It's like watching a rape victim stand there and defend their rapist, watching Americans defend capitalism. It's just sad. You're fed this dream that you can achieve success in a system where 1% of the people control 99% of the wealth, and you believe it. Why, I don't know, the whole thing is falling down around your ears.

Look, capitalism, communism and socialism all have one thing in common, NONE of them work as advertised. So reject them all. If no system is perfect, choose no system.

[Aaron]

capitalism works

Look, capitalism, communism and socialism all have one thing in common, NONE of them work as advertised. So reject them all. If no system is perfect, choose no system.

I think capitalism works just fine as long as corporations carry
the tax burden while the working class carries none. This is how
it is supposed to be.

Only profits are supposed to be taxed and not compensation for labor.

Now the working class pays the most while the corporations pay almost
nothing.

The graduated income tax system is what makes it fail and not
capitalism itself.

[noises]

Aaron, I choose, (a), I strongly agree with this statement.

I think what I was getting at is what is presented to us as capitalism isn't actually capitalism, it's a variation of the theme, designed by fascists to exploit the working class, destroy the middle class and exault the ruling class. I despise class consciousness, I can't help myself, because I KNOW it's wrong, and I KNOW we're all equal. I guess that's why I get my panties in a twist whenever I talk about it.

Mea Culpa.

[Aaron]

corporatism

Aaron, I choose, (a), I strongly agree with this statement.

I think what I was getting at is what is presented to us as capitalism isn't actually capitalism, it's a variation of the theme, designed by fascists to exploit the working class, destroy the middle class and exault the ruling class. I despise class consciousness, I can't help myself, because I KNOW it's wrong, and I KNOW we're all equal. I guess that's why I get my panties in a twist whenever I talk about it.

Mea Culpa.

What we have in the United States is corporate fascism and is only possible
when we have a democracy - a phony free society is a democracy where
majority rule because it will always be $ that gets the votes, gets in
power and changes the laws to benefit them.

Fascism is the twisted form of capitalism that rules the United States.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson

[Mad Scientist]

Capitalism works just fine providing you can keep a level playing field for everyone.
Unfortunately many people have been dumbed down to the point that they do not know that we are supposed to be a representative republic. They have been lead to believe that democracy is the same thing. Thus we have involved into a democracy that is now controlled by a few large corporations. Our representatives have given up much of their powers over to bureaucrats who then make our rules and regulations the problem with this is we cannot vote bureaucrats out of office if we disagree with their polices.

[rickoff]

Recession ending?

Today's jobs report shows that 95,000 non-farm jobs were lost in September, and that the "official" jobless rate stands at 9.6%. Also reported was that the jobless rate has remained above 8.5 % for 14 months, the longest stretching period of time since the 1930's Depression era. And, while the government's report of a 9.6% jobless rate for September shows that unemployment is on an upswing (8.9% in July and 9.3% in August), a Gallup Poll shows that the September figure is actually 10.1%. The difference is due to the fact that the government calculated its figures in mid month, when the rate was 9.6, but the greatest portion of losses came during the second half of September.

[rickoff]

[rickoff]

[Nadda]

I made another funny version of your picture rickoff lol

[future pather]

Even though I started this thread it got too argumentative for my tastes so I purposely haven't read it for a while and probably will continue to avoid it.

So . . .sorry for the "hit and run" but I found out yesterday something I've been asking for to a company has come true.

I see it as a good indicator for the economy, which was part of the reason I explained when I requested the company do this. I thought it would be a real morale booster for everyone.

If you agree, buy as much of this stuff as possible so the company will conclude it reached the right decision in fulfilling my request to them and so other companies might do the same.

Remember these days. . .?

[rickoff]

I found out yesterday something I've been asking for to a company has come true.

I see it as a good indicator for the economy, which was part of the reason I explained when I requested the company do this. I thought it would be a real morale booster for everyone.

If you agree, buy as much of this stuff as possible so the company will conclude it reached the right decision in fulfilling my request to them and so other companies might do the same.

What was your request - that Edy's include 20% more ice cream than usual for the same price? This is a temporary marketing technique that Edy's and a great many other food companies have been using for years to increase sales and boost consumer brand loyalty. So, nothing new. This type of sale is always short lived, and the companies then revert to their previous price or higher. It wasn't long ago that all ice cream came in half gallon containers, but now 1.5 quarts (1/4 less) is the standard size, and the price for these reduced size containers is even higher on average than the price was previously for the 1/2 gallon size. So when Edy's reduces their package size 25% while at the same time increasing their price, and then offers a temporary "sale" to give us 20% more product at the inflated price, is that really a good deal? And how does this relate to the economy in general? Does it show us that the economy is improving, the recession is nearly over, and that we can all breathe a sigh of relief? I think not. If anything, it would show us that people are hurting from this recession and buying less of everything, including Edy's ice cream, as a result. When consumers buy less, companies either reduce production and lay off workers, or attempt to boost product sales through temporary price reductions or other gimmicks that make consumers think they are getting something they aren't paying for. In times like these, such temporary sales ploys are rather ineffective at increasing long term production, and when companies reach a tipping point where continuing current production quotas begins to cost more than laying off workers and paying unemployment benefits to them, companies will choose whatever is in the best interests of their shareholders - not the workers.