David Icke?

[rickoff]

Mr complacency here -

Gee, sure I will trust you Mr Elite. After all, you are here to save us, just like you have been saying, right? I'm sure that whatever you do will be in our best interest. I've been hoping that someday someone would come along and save us, and now it looks like you're here. Gee, thanks. Adoration and praise to you, your excellency.

[frederick4life2004]

Hi Mad Scientist,
yes I'm in hopes to that they will be more forthcoming .
They must know about photosynthesis and the importance of the oceans plant life,rain forests.... and to not give co2! a bad name.
While I have never heard a single Politician talk on this subject,I'm aware of environmental organisations that are doing much research into the oceans vital plant life and co2 levels.


Hi Rick, I read your posts several times{ wanted to reply, had a trauma attack last Saturday , very rare this happens now,all sorted now }
Re David Icke.

The terrible famine in India began in the late 1600s up to the latter 1770s Over which time 10 million people lost there life.
I would agree that the burden of British Empire taxes played a major part in bringing about poverty and also food being exported to feed the growing population of Europe and Britain was a major factor, a calculated deliberate genocide, I don't believe so, this does not take away the horror of this chapter in history.

We certainly have a much better wisdom now,what happened in Ireland was terrible too and per head of population equally bad.
UK population 8 million and 1million lost there life in Ireland, it says tons about a gross incompetence and the Empire rulers, in fact they were dressed up~
pirates in these years bringing pirated treasure to the Crown from the 1500s and on to the 1700s.
They don't teach this in our schools, I guess its further education and knowledge deemed for adults, its very relevant history even more so with the Nationalist movements here in the UK who can see no further back than the 1950s.
During the 1600s India was a wealthy nation,the Moguls ruled and slaves were part of their everyday life, India had a abundance of food,divides in religion, accepted practises that were gross and inhumane.None of this was unique to India, change was everywhere due to population growth.

Trade with India had been established across parts of Europe prior, Britain had little to trade back with India of use, this was in the era of the Age of Discovery where in Britain the Monarch granted right to exploration with the intention of building a empire through trade and military activity.There were no trains or cars or radio communications , ships had only just been designed that could safely travel the Atlantic .
I can't make any excuses for those Empire days or those previous of Romans,Vikings and many more,yet each one have brought about change that effect us all and in some good ways to.
We have come a glorious long way from those days,I'm grateful for that everyday.
I believe the spirits of those who have been victim to all of mankind's wrong are very grateful there is good change and strong intentions to make our great Earth greater through our beliefs and God.
Today we have The United Nations and UNICEF,OXFAM and the International Red Cross, and many more organisations,a great way forward in taking Hope onto a new level .The worlds supper powers seam to make crisis even more crisis.



The Banks.
In the UK £380 Billion ,our money has been used to bail out banks here and compensate British people who have invested in savings funds only,here and abroad,particularly the Icelandic banks{my heart goes out to Icelandic people }they were totally bankrupted .Any other investments,the folk have lost everything.
The culture of paying Bankers a bonuses based on the mount of turnover they do rather than profit they make is under scrutiny... it beggars belief that this was ever allowed to happen in the 1st place.
We have credit unions here to Rick, there very good yet not widely known.

The Audit of the banks in trouble cost £121 mllion{ no names given of the account companies who did this, it has been realised that the demands of some were verging on extortion,they didn't get a job }
The English government draft plans to heavily tax banks including the good ones , they will see the light very soon like now !

The Bank of England so very much revered, they have only 2 weeks ago released information about secret multi 100 million pound loans to UK banks in the past year , prior to government stepping in, so they were in on it ha!.


Have a great week everyone and a great x mass Rick.
Its a beautiful world and and a beautiful life .
Education is knowledge and nothing else said Einstein
.

[rickoff]

The terrible famine in India began in the late 1600s up to the latter 1770s Over which time 10 million people lost there life. I would agree that the burden of British Empire taxes played a major part in bringing about poverty and also food being exported to feed the growing population of Europe and Britain was a major factor, a calculated deliberate genocide, I don't believe so, this does not take away the horror of this chapter in history.

India has always been susceptible to famines due to drought or flooding, and there is no question about that. During the 1661 famine, not a drop of rain fell for two years. There were 9 famines in India between the years 650 and 1704, and where the number of deaths are known it is stated that about 2 million people died per famine. In stark contrast, the Bengal famine of 1700, the first famine while India was under British rule (British East India Company) reported 10 million deaths. Incidentally, the British East India Company was obsessed with growing opium in the Bengal area and exporting it to China, where they intentionally turned a large portion of the Chinese population into opium addicts. The British East India Company's import of opium to China reached a staggering two thousand chests of opium per year by 1767, three years prior to the Bengal Famine. The Bengal Famine was the first, but not the last of the famines under British rule, which lasted until 1947. From 1770 to 1943, there were 7 famines, in which 46.5 million people died.

1770: territory ruled by the British East India Company experienced the first Bengal famine of 1770. An estimated 10 million people died.
1783-84 Up to 11 million died in the Chalisa famine in the regions of present-day Uttar Pradesh, Delhi region, Rajputana, eastern Punjab region and Kashmir.
1788-92: Another 11 million may have died in the Doji bara famine or Skull famine in Hyderabad State, Southern Maratha country, Gujarat and Marwar.
1800-1825: 1 million Indians died of famine
1866-1869: 2.5 million died in Orissa famine of 1866 and Rajputana famine of 1869
1875-1902: 7–8 million Indians died of famine (Great Famine of 1876–78 5.25 million)
1943: India experienced the second Bengal famine of 1943. Over 3 million people died.

While I agree that the British certainly had no control over the weather conditions that caused crop losses during these famines, the fact remains that in times of good crop conditions there was always a sizable crop surplus. Managing the surplus wisely, and storing a goodly portion for use during times of crop failure, should have been of paramount concern to India's British rulers. Instead, they chose to export vast quantities of grains, thus dooming India to extensive and deadly famines. During the 1876-1878 famine, Viceroy Lord Lytton opposed calls for famine relief, ordering, "There is to be no interference of any kind on the part of Government with the object of reducing the price of food," and instructing district officers to "discourage relief works in every possible way.... Mere distress is not a sufficient reason for opening a relief work." (quoted in Davis, Mike. Late Victorian Holocausts: El Nino Famine and the Making of the Third World. London: Verso, 2001:31, 52)

Today we have The United Nations and UNICEF, OXFAM and the International Red Cross, and many more organisations, a great way forward in taking Hope onto a new level.

You really can't be serious about these organizations, can you? It looks like you didn't bother to watch The U.N. Deception video I linked for you in post #43, and offer here again. As I stated in post #43, the UN is one of the most corrupt and sinister organizations on the face of this earth, and I think you would probably agree if you would take the time to watch the video. All of the facts cited in the video can easily be verified.

As for UNICEF and OXFAM, what is so wonderful about them? Did you know these organizations are strongly anti-semite? UNICEF funded "Palestinian Youth Association for Leadership and Rights Activation" (PYALARA), a student-run Palestinian non-governmental operation (NGO). NGO Monitor alleges that PYALARA has a covert political agenda justifying suicide bombings and demonising Israel. The Vatican has also been critical of UNICEF, at times withdrawing its donations because of reports by the American Life League and others that UNICEF has used some of those funds to finance sterilizations and abortions. As for OXFAM, In 2003 OXFAM Belgium produced a poster with a picture of an orange drenched in blood. The poster read, "Israel's fruits have a bitter taste...reject the occupation of Palestine, don't buy Israeli fruits and vegetables". Oxfam was widely criticised because of the poster's anti-Israel political message and its alleged allusion to traditional, antisemitic blood libel rhetoric.

The Red Cross is certainly not above controversy either. Did you know that The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is exempt from giving testimony in war crimes trials about the facts they observed while performing their duties? Because of this policy, the ICRC has sometimes denied justice to victims of war crimes and enabled war criminals by offering them impunity for war crimes. In 2005, the Canadian Red Cross pleaded guilty to distributing contaminated blood supplies that infected thousands of Canadians with HIV and hepatitis C in the 1980s. This scandal is a large part of why the Canadian Red Cross was removed from running the country's blood supply in the late 1990's. Both the Canadian and American Red Cross opposed national testing of blood supplies for HIV. Another harsh criticism of the Red Cross was brought to light by The Australian TV network, and the indigenous rights group Friends of Peoples Close to Nature, which released a documentary called Blood on the Cross that raises allegations of the involvement of the Red Cross with the British military in conducting a massacre in the Southern Highlands of West Papua, New Guinea. And then there are the misappropriated funds. For years, the organization has been criticized for raising money for one disaster, and then withholding a large chunk of it for other operations and "fundraising." For example, the Red Cross raised around $50 million for the victims of the 1989 San Francisco earthquake in San Francisco, but it is estimated that only $10 million was ever turned over to the victims. The worst scandal came after the September 11 attacks, when it was revealed that a large portion of the 443 million dollars donated to the organization went not to survivors or family members of those killed, but to other Red Cross operations, in what was described by chapters across the country as a "bait-and-switch" operation. I could go on an on, Fred, but you probably aren't even listening.

Honestly, Fred, you appear to accept an awful lot at face value without exploring what lies beneath the deceptive facades of these organizations which you paint as offering "a great way forward in taking Hope onto a new level." I sincerely do hope that you will take some time to do more careful research before making such statements in the future.

I wish you well, Fred, and I really don't mean to pick on you. It's just that it pains me to see people being bamboozled into believing things that obviously are not true. Best wishes to you and your family during the holidays, and in the coming new year,

Rick

[frederick4life2004]

Hi Rick, we could exchange so much.I do read your posts and Im very grateful.

Ding dong gets nobody anywhere we both know this,i.e.,
I could cite the largest mass hanging in the world , in the USA of a people up rising against starvation because their food coupons had not arrived yet there was food in store,bureaucracy got in the way.I guess already you have a counter view Rick.
I could talk about a people who will not accept compensation for the desecration and quarrying of their sacred land.I guess already you have a counter view Rick
I could talk about there winter last where they burnt there home furniture to keep warm.I could talk about justice and the millions of dollars they will not accept awarded to them through American courts.

More importantly to me, its the fact that millions of people are happy to support organisations that are independent, that don't take sides.

I could talk about poverty here in the UK and find blame through History.
I can talk about China and human rights AND THE STRICTEST birth control of any nation.We can talk about the Vatican and its blindness to the abuse of Catholic children in care.Modern history.
We can talk about opium and what its doing to western youth Rick.We can talk about money for blood and preaching's of fear of shortages, I agree about the outcome there Rick..
I don't take sides on these, to me its far more important that we can united make a difference and change, justice.


Face value or unconditional love, both are the same thing.I actively support Save our tribal youth,I actively support 46664.com, the founder of this charity can't enter the USA under terrorist law.The work this charity do is awesome in the field of AIDS and the rehabilitation of children who where abducted and forced to be soldiers.
You and I both know mankind has its weaknesses, I don't much care for bad apples either, weed them out and care for the good.,

UNICEF, Oxfam and the International Red Cross have brought relief and hope to Billions of children Rick! I actively support these charities.
if you can sort the out the bad apples from any of theses organisations,that's great by me, Im sure grateful that there a minority.
If there are worthy alternatives, shine their light Rick.

You and I both know that under International law these charities can't just enter any country,the UN is important here.Yes I could voice much frustration about the UN and the nightmare of Bosnia inparticular, International law is stupid sometimes.
Your comments on the 911 donations are news to me, so what areas of the world did these donations help, or are you saying they were embezzled.

There's an alternative , the Bush Blair approach{ legacy,} illegal and against International law .Im proud to say I supported the efforts to send medicine to Iraq during the west's trade embargo, I don't know if there are videos on you tube that show the suffering of women and children during that era, Im sure glad for unconditional love.
Hopes a great thing and we are going a long way on a great journey.
History is amazing and can be uncomfortable, I feel no one should ever feel bad about history or use it against some one, its knowledge.
Any way, I think that's my lot for now.
Have a great x mass , we make a difference.


ps Rick, if you have some info on any of the above charities that's is current and we should be aware of,I don't mind if you e mail it or Private message it .
Fred.

[rickoff]

I could cite the largest mass hanging in the world , in the USA of a people up rising against starvation because their food coupons had not arrived yet there was food in store,bureaucracy got in the way.I guess already you have a counter view Rick.

No, I don't have a counter view - not yet, anyway. If you can cite this as an actual occurrence, with reference, I would like to know about it. It sounds absurd that anyone would be hung over a food coupon protest, but I promise I will keep an open mind.

I could talk about a people who will not accept compensation for the desecration and quarrying of their sacred land. I guess already you have a counter view Rick

Counter view? I don't even understand what you mean. You haven't said what that means. Who are those people, what sacred land is being desecrated, who are the desecrators, and why don't the wronged people seek and accept compensation if they have been wronged? Here again, I'd like to know. Maybe I can help them in some way if what you say is true.

I could talk about there winter last where they burnt there home furniture to keep warm. I could talk about justice and the millions of dollars they will not accept awarded to them through American courts.

You have piqued my interest, Fred. Who are these people, and where did you hear about this? It is difficult to understand the logic of burning one's furniture to keep warm during winter, presumably because one cannot afford to heat their home, while at the same time refusing millions of dollars which would ensure that they could live comfortably. Please do explain, Fred.

More importantly to me, its the fact that millions of people are happy to support organisations that are independent, that don't take sides.

I fully agree, but UN, UNICEF, and OXFAM certainly don't qualify.

Face value or unconditional love, both are the same thing.

Now that I can't agree with. Unconditional love is the kind of love that one feels for their children, and yet we needn't be so blind as to accept everything they say to us at face value, and without question. Kids do tell fibs, and kids can do wrong to others, but when they do we still love them, even though we feel sad. Accepting everything you see at face value is dangerous, though. Isn't that why we tell our children to be wary of strangers, and that even people who appear to be nice can actually be bad and hoping to trick us? Of course practically all organizations which exist due to public donations must by necessity perform (or at least appear to perform) some service that benefits mankind. That's the face value part. And some organizations, like the Red Cross, were founded on noble principles. Yet somewhere along the line certain people step into these organizations in positions of authority and bastardize the whole concept because of their greed, and propensity to take advantage of a situation whereby they can wield power and influence over people while skimming a fortune for themselves.

I actively support Save our tribal youth,I actively support 46664.com, the founder of this charity can't enter the USA under terrorist law.The work this charity do is awesome in the field of AIDS and the rehabilitation of children who were abducted and forced to be soldiers.

Nothing wrong with either of those organizations, Fred, as far as I can see. Actually, the ban against Mandela traveling to the United States was lifted in July of 2008, and it never restricted him from attending UN conferences in Manhattan, New York. After the 911 incidents, any persons who had been listed by other nations as terrorists, or as having links to terrorist groups, were banned from entering the US. Unfortunately, it was Mandela's involvement as co-founder and leader of
Umkhonto we Sizwe , the African National Congress' armed wing, which carried out sabotage attacks against South African military and government targets, that labeled him as a terrorist. Of course you and I both know that he was a freedom fighter opposing apartheid, but unfortunately the terrorist distinction imposed by the South African government held sway. Why it took 14 years to break the ban against Mandela is beyond me, although I would have to guess that this prolonged period had something to do with Mandela's outspoken criticism of George W Bush, which I gladly echo.

You and I both know mankind has its weaknesses, I don't much care for bad apples either, weed them out and care for the good.

I'll support that, Fred. And basically, when you think about it, that's what David Icke is all about - exposing the bad apples so we can weed them out.

UNICEF, Oxfam and the International Red Cross have brought relief and hope to Billions of children Rick! I actively support these charities. If you can sort the out the bad apples from any of theses organisations,that's great by me, Im sure grateful that there a minority. If there are worthy alternatives, shine their light Rick.

There are many worthy alternatives to these corrupt organizations, Fred. Probably the most overlooked alternative is personal action, rather than charitable donations to organizations. On the average, businesses listed as charitable organizations take somewhere between 10% and 25% off the top of all contributions for "operating expenses " or "administrative costs." Speaking of administarative costs, did you know that the Red Cross CEO takes a salary of a half million dollars a year? The people at the top levels of these organizations do not perform a service out of compassion for the needy. Incidentally, the latest American Red Cross CEO recently resigned over a sex scandal. Anyways, that administrative portion of your donation doesn't do anything for those in need. When you donate to the Red Cross, even the majority of the remainder never gets to help those who you thought you were helping. Time and again the Red Cross takes up donations for specific relief programs related to hurricanes, earthquakes, and other disasters, and only a small portion ever makes its way to the disaster victims. It's far better to take a look around you, find children or families in need, and then take personal action to help them. That way you know that 100% of your efforts and contributions are benefiting the needy.

Your comments on the 911 donations are news to me, so what areas of the world did these donations help, or are you saying they were embezzled?

Apparently you don't hear much news of the USA where you live, or perhaps only hear the spin doctor accounts. The Red Cross 911 Liberty Fund scandal was big news here and caused quite a public outcry. Embezzlement is common within the Red Cross, as you can see from the following CBS TV news article from 2002.
Disaster Strikes In Red Cross Backyard - CBS Evening News - CBS News
After 911, the Red Cross set up a 911 disaster relief fund and promised that all donations would go to help survivors and family members of those who died. Months later it was found that although 543 million dollars in donations had been taken in by local Red Cross Chapters in all 50 states, very little of that money had actually been received by those it was intended for. The US public was outraged, naturally, and this resulted in a huge scandal. Evidently, the local chapters all thought that they would just keep the lion's share of the money to use in their own pet projects, which were totally unrelated to the 911 incidents. Here's an Associated Press article telling how one such chapter manager embezzled 911 funds:

http://www.amerrescue.org/red_cross_embezzlement.pdf

A
4/7/2005 Red Cross Embezzlement
MARQUETTE, Mich. (AP) - A former American Red
Cross official who admitted embezzling thousands of
dollars from the organization has pleaded guilty.
Kimberly Sue Smith, 46, formerly of
Hancock, reached a deal with federal prosecutors in
Michigan and Indiana and the local prosecutor in
Houghton County. She pleaded guilty in federal
court today to three counts of wire fraud and one of
making a false statement on a loan application.
Smith admitted that while serving as executive
director of the Western Upper Peninsula Chapter of tof
of the Red Cross in 2001-02, she used Red Cross
money for personal things and submitted
false financial reports to national and regional
offices. Some of the money she took was from the
''Liberty Fund'' set up for the terrorism victims.

The American public never received a factual accounting regarding this Red Cross 911 Liberty Fund fraud.

Fred, my aim is to expose corruption wherever it exists, including America, to help make people aware of what is really going on all around them, and to show what can be done to restore sanity and liberty and protect one's self and family from the global rise of fascism. That's the purpose of the American Ruling Class thread that I started, and you are more than welcome to browse that area and comment if you wish.

Thanks for the Christmas wishes, and best to you also,

Rick

[frederick4life2004]

Hi Rick, the people I refer to are the Sioux Indians of Pine Ridge and the Black Hills, over the past 4 years I have made some great friends here.
During the early 1980s they were awarded 17 million Dollars in compensation for the Stealing of their land,they will not accept the compensation.
The history of events go back to the 1700s.I have studied this history via library books and my new friends there. I'm aware in detail of their living conditions and the big picture.
At this present time with interest, the compensation banked runs into 100s of millions of dollars.
The average age of life reaches 44 years of age for men on the reservation.Donations help to buy the most basic needs of building schools and school teachers travelling from across the USA and abroad to teach.
In my earlier posts I refer to 3rd world conditions, this is the place where those conditions exist in the USA Rick.
On a personal note I wish they would accept at least some of the compensation,but they will not and its not my place to make judjment.
Many people like me will do what ever we can to make a difference to their children's lives.

Nelson Mandela is a most amazing man, humanitarian , his energy and joy of life are to be hold, no looking back and full of hope, get on with it .He's amazing and now retired.The charity lives on and for any one interested, its work beautiful in the field of Aids and rehabilitation of child soldiers.

We I'm shocked reading the CBS report,a well balanced write up that does not condemn the Red cross as a Global organisation and please remember Rick one bad apple in the USA doesn't mean global, and this charity is global.Do some research on their global work if you need reassurance on where the work really makes a difference.

In these organisations Rick, highly skilled doctors, nurses ,technicians all work across parts of the world where relief is needed.Some lose there life each year through acts of terrorism and we should remember this is where their work is foremost.No spin doctors!.
There are the charity organisers/ fund raisers and the people who go out and do tremendous work in the most unimaginable conditions, please bear that in mind
There are a few other international organisations Rick, I have no idea how to spell their title, but they do great work too, one being based in France.

On the subject of Icke, I can find no where he lists any charity doing global work.

Fred.
we are lucky, have a great christmas and thanks for your post Rick.

[rickoff]

Hi Fred,

I kind of thought maybe you were refering to indian tribes, and this is something I do know about. Nearly every state has a population of native indians. Here in Maine we have 5 tribes - Maliseet, Passamaquoddy, Abenaki, Penobscot, and Micmac. I have a good friend who is the same age as I am (64) and he just found out a few years ago that he is an Abenaki indian. He had no idea of that before, because no one in his family ever talked about it. When he was just a youngster, the federal and state governments were involved in programs designed to basically eradicate indian tribes. Most white people didn't have any idea of what was going on, and I never heard anything about this until my friend told me what happened. He had two sisters who were taken from home and placed in a "school," and it was here that both were sterilized so that they could never bear any offspring. All of the indians' names were changed to give them English or Christian names, and no records were kept of their actual names, so my friend still doesn't know what his real name is, and has always gone by the name Joeseph Phillips. So he lost his name, his language, and his culture. After learning the truth about his heritage, Joe went about tracing his roots to Swanton, Vermont, where a eugenics project had taken place from about 1920 to 1940. You can learn a bit about that here: Abenaki Language Preservation - Eugenics

Many of the Vermont Abenaki tribe left Vermont to come to Maine and join up with Abenakis already living here, but they were so afraid of being persecuted that most attempted to blend in with society rather than living traditionally. And that is why most parents never spoke to their children about the Abenaki indian ways. Joe has written countless letters to senators and congressmen, and also to three presidents, urging them to simply acknowledge publicly that the eugenics program is a historic fact, but of course no one in government is willing to do that.

Twenty five years ago I lived in an area of Maine very close to the Passamaquoddy tribe. They pursued litagation in 1975 against the federal government, claiming that they had been incapable of understanding and entering into a valid contract to sell land to the government, and that therefore the contract was null and void. In 1980 they won the lawsuit by showing that their tribe had no concept of land ownership, or transfer of ownership, since they had always roamed freely and set up encampments wherever they had wished. They wanted all of their home land back (covering 60% of the state), and of course that would have been impossible. Instead, they were given several very large undeveloped parcels of land (Maine is 90% forest land) and were also awarded 40 million dollars. They set up a trust fund with the money to give each tribal member a decent monthly income, and have invested the remainder in business ventures which employ tribal members as well as outsiders, and which have paid off quite well, thus increasing their stake substantially.

It's too bad that the Sioux won't accept what has been rewarded to them, as they could then purchase land tracts and invest in tribal owned businesses like the Passamaquoddy have done. It's one thing for the adults to refuse anything for themselves, but why subject their children to unnecessary hardship? Do they give any reason for not accepting the award? I know that the Sioux are still very resentful, and rightfully so, for the Wounded Knee Massacre, in which disarmed indian men, women, and children were cut down by gattling guns operated by the US cavalry. While the cavalry regarded that as a reprisal for indian killings of a like number of cavalry troops in the Battle of Little Big Horn, I think that any sane person would regard the slaughter of unarmed men, women, and children as vicious and unjustified. It is no better than the mass shootings of Jews by Hitler's Nazis.

[frederick4life2004]

Hi Rick, bless your friend and for a great future too.
Im very aware of the Native Indians History and the Big Picture.
I have travelled Canada and met some Apache, there real proud people.
My sisters are trying very hard to find further back than our great Grand fathers ancestral history,but the trail just seems to stop there.
Rick, its in Black and White what the Sioux want, you know this. I wish to our God they would accept at least some of the compensation and see wisdom.

You ask why do I think they allow their children through the living conditions they do, excuse me Rick, I make no excuses for the Sioux or to you for their actions.
Have I misunderstood your question? its a brighter future we want for their children, not pilling on more agony.
Anyway, there has been a great deal of information exchanged, that's my last on this thread Rick,its way of course now.
You posted some great links and Im grateful for that.

Fred

[rickoff]

Hi Fred,

I do know that the Sioux refused the $122 million awarded to them by a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1980 as compensation, and I know that as interest accrues, the unclaimed award is approaching $1 billion. To my understanding, the Sioux rejected the award because it did not include land, and they feel that roughly 2/3 of South Dakota should be returned to them. While there is no doubt that the Sioux were treated unjustly by the US government, there is obviously very little chance that their claim to 2/3 of South Dakota will ever go anywhere. It is certainly their right to refuse the compensation awarded to them, but to then cry poverty does not make sense. According to US Census estimates, there are roughly 155,000 Sioux Indians alive today. If they were to accept the $1 billion now being held for them, they could use this to purchase some very fine land and lift themselves out of poverty conditions. A few things that you perhaps are unaware of, regarding the Sioux and other native American tribes, is that even after accepting a compensation award they are still eligible to receive food stamps, heating and energy assistance, free college tuition grants, and free medical care. I would be wary of any organizations which paint the American indian situation as dire, and which plead for charitable donations. Be sure to inquire as to what percentage of such donations is earmarked for "administrative costs." In nearly all charitable organizations, the administrators make out far better than any of the intended donation recipients.

Yes, the discussion has gone a bit off track and away from David Icke. I must say, however, that I have yet to see you offer any concrete example in support of your opposition to Icke's viewpoints. That's okay, of course, and you are certainly entiltled to formulate your opposing viewpoint based upon what you believe. There are some things we agree on, and many things which we do not agree on, and I can live with that. The world would certainly be a dull place if everyone thought exactly alike. To each his or her own, and I wish you the best.

Rick

[frederick4life2004]

Hi Rick, I decided to post again because~
Agree 100% about being aware where donations are made, in fact in all areas of life,do some research 1st. My brothers best friend was killed near Pine Ridge 3 years ago by a Sioux Indian who drove into the back of his car at high speed, his wife survived from multiple injuries.The Sioux driver was so drunk, that saved his life, incredible .
At Pine Ridge its estimated 14,000 people live and 40% are without running hot water or electricity.85 % of Adults are unemployed.Their homes are fragile buildings.
I don't want to be negative, but a high percentage of the Adults at Pine Ridge spend their coupons on Alcohol, at Save our Tribal Youth donations go to the young generations only.
They make bracelets and necklaces and sow beautiful crafts to help fund themselves and the Adults make traditional music you can buy or download .
Originally they were Nomadic people and the land they travelled and lived vast.I know the Geography of this territory well and its resources{ you may choose to do some research on the resources Rick } , its impossible now just hand it all back, yet there must be a way forward.


have a great new year , Fred.

[wpage]

Native Americans a tragic story

The history of how Native Americans were exploited by Euro and later Americans is a sad era. Money is never true compensation for lands and lives taken for what some callled a Manifest Destiny.
Certain tribes will settle thier pride for $$. Others may be making a statement.

David Icke has been making his stand on his Epiphany and sharing his message.
Like others who have heard the voices. Some will hear it.

[rickoff]

Originally they [Sioux Indians] were Nomadic people and the land they travelled and lived vast. I know the Geography of this territory well and its resources, its impossible now just hand it all back, yet there must be a way forward.

Hi Fred,

I think there actually is a viable way forward for the Sioux. You may be aware that a delegation of Sioux Indians, led by Russell Means, presented a declaration of independence from the United States in Washington DC, which they refer to as a "reassertment of sovereignty," whereby all Sioux lands in 5 states, which were included within the borders defined in an 1851 treaty ( Treaty of Fort Laramie (1851) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) would be an entirely separate entity outside of US jurisdiction. This encompasses a very large area of 200,000 square kilometers, and contains several large cities, including Omaha Nebraska. Evidently, official tribal leaders have scoffed at the idea and said that the delegation was not valid and did not represent their views. That's too bad, because the concept was put together quite well. One of the ideas was that the tribe would reclaim all Indian land as defined in the 1851 treaty, and that all peoples living on that land would be allowed to remain without being taxed for their parcels. Plus, no income tax either. Absolutely no taxes! In fact, anyone would be welcome to live on the Indian land tax free as long as they renounce their US citizenship. The Sioux would issue driver licenses and passports, etc. I think this idea could be realized by the general public as being so beneficial to them that the general population of South Dakota, and other states within the area of the so-called Lakotah Republic, would probably opt to place their entire states under Sioux sovereignty. What a simple way to achieve all they have wanted and so much more.

Read more about this here: The Blog Years: Lakota Sioux Delegation Quits the US!

...and here: Republic of Lakotah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Richie_asg1]

Whenever I research stuff - I always end up with one of his pages in there.
While I don't follow everything he says completeley without question, some of the facts or pictures he presents do warrant further investigation.

I have also sat through most of Nassim Haramein's lectures, and found them very interesting indeed.

You have to wonder what the "powers that be" would do with someone like Ike. He's fairly well known - so would be difficult to silence after publicising so much - it would fuel the conspiricies further.
I think they went straight for the throat with the "I am God" publicity - to quickly discredit and remove him from any means to broadcast his views.

Remember David Belamy was also in the forefront of TV shows - but after he sided with the anti-global warming groups - he virtually kissed his broadcasting career goodbye. It seems to be the way things go. - Discredit and hide them out of the way. Maybe even a gagging order or other pressure. Does he still have a BBC pension ?