Gravity wheel from Overunity by Mallaradet

[norman6538]

The drawing for this is here
https://www.energythic.com/view.php?node=264
Since overunity is locked I hope we can continue this discussion here.
It is clear to me that the switching of the arm/weight from balanced at noon to leaning toward 1 causing an unbalance and rotation works quite well but then the reset must be at 6 pm where the arm is level and will cause no loss to reset it back to balanced. So It seems to be it cannon continue to run but must stop at noon and 6 for the set to unbalanced and reset to balanced. But where does that energy/work come from. Perhaps from the falling weight and rotation a reset can be done. I doubt that a cam would do this well without big losses.

Anxious to hear what others have to say.
Norman

[norman6538]

Perhaps 2 weights could be lifted and 1 can be used to set the arm/weight at noon and the other can be used to reset the arm/weight at 6 pm.. If the wheel was stopped and level at noon and 6 pm very little work would be required to set and reset. Norman

[RAMSET]

Norman
thanks for Keeping on the quest
here an open source forum that has sprouted
https://mooker.com/
Floodrod from OU.com ( Jim Mac over at Mooker)
with gratitude
Chet K

[norman6538]

I made a 2 arm version for the purpose of measuring the work out by lifting a weight which is intended to reset the arms. When the arm is manually repositioned to its starting balanced position the lifted weight can reset the arm but that reset needs to be done at 6 o'clock after the rotation from noon to 6 BUT the rotation stops at 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees.

And I have always found that adding more mechanisms has not made a wheel continue to rotate and I think that is because adding more mass means switching each mechanism then has to move that extra mass.

So based on these results I do not see this wheel workable.

I sense that the small rotation is due to the CG shift when the arm moves from perpendicular to the wheel to parallel. The longer the arm the greater the shift.

I was hoping to have measurements that would give me a device that would fully demonstrate the principle by pushing a button to start the rotation and another button release to reverse that motion showing the free rotation/work done except for the "setting and re-setting" button pressing/switching.

I did not make a full wheel. Using a 1/2 in. washer and a 24 in. bicycle wheel it does rotate 180 degrees to 6 o'clock where the reset can be done.

So we can manually do the set and reset and get free rotation from gravity.

SO THE BASIC PRINCIPLE IS VALID. So to get rotation requires a force to do the switching ie. set/reset.

AND it will lift another 1/2 inch washer which will then rotate the wheel back to about 1 pm. - not quite enough to be at the noon reset point.

So in about a month the principle has been seen and warrants more experimentation.

Photo shows the 24 in. bicycle wheel suspended between 2 fans with the arm/weight blocked in the parallel position where it will rotate. It then rotates past 6 pm because of the inertia. Quite nice. However as discussed the "reset problem" and where does the switching energy come from? I will leave that to another day or to you.

Typically I start my mechanisms crude to validate the principle. So you can see it will not take much to see the basic principle...

Norman

[norman6538]

Today I cobbled together something similar to Mullat's idea. I pivoted a long triangle with 1 weight at the long point and 2 weights at the other end. The pivot is such that the triangle can be easily pivoted parallel to the axle where it is weight balanced. So with the one weight at noon it will rotate right or left because of weight and leverage. And then when it rotates it can be easily flipped parallel to the axle so that it has no CG shift when the wheel is rotated back to its original position. My photos are ugly but when I get better ones I will post them.

So what I want to do is lift a weight when the wheel rotates and then use that weight to flip the triangle/weights parallel to the axle so another lifted weight can be used to easily rotate the wheel back to it starting position and a third weight would then easily flip the triangle single weight up to noon where it would repeat the process.

So there you have it.

Norman

[norman6538]

I will describe in great detail how a small force can be used to release a larger force and thus lead to overunity. First imagine rectangle 1 unit wide and 4 units long. Then pivot/hinge that rectangle at 1 unit from the end. Then put one weight on the long end of the pivot and enough weights on the short end to almost lift the long end.

Next imagine an axle down through that pivot point so that it can be turned up toward you so the rectangle can rotate down at the long end because of its leverage and weight. It will drop down from noon to 6 and past and then move back and forth like a pendulum and settle down at 6 having done work.

Now for the reset/repeat. Now we can un-leverage that rectangle so the axle can effortlessly be rotated back to where it started from to repeat the work done cycle.

Since the rectangle is almost balanced at 1 unit it can easily/with little work be flipped to parallel to the axle (picture aligned with the tread of a tire) where it looses its leverage/weight so that the rectangle can be easily rotated back to its starting position to repeat the work done cycle.

So there are two pivots. One at the axle and one perpendicular to the axle (like the king pin of a front wheel axle) for the rectangle which allows it to change the leverage with very little work in.

So with the long leverage it can rotate and do work and with the short leverage it can be reset with little work.

Attached is a photo from the axle position. Imagine that you are looking at a wheel hubcap from the axle side.
The photo is ugly but it shows the rectangle at its short leverage position where it can easily be reset to repeat the work cycle. So hopefully with the ugly photo and the verbal description you can understand the concept.

What I envision is the long leverage of the rectangle thus rotating and lifting 3 weights. One will be used to flip the rectangle to short leverage. And the 2nd to rotate the rectangle back to its starting position and the 3rd to flip the rectangle to its long leverage position where it will repeat the work cycle.


Next I will manually do the switching and measure to see if it has the work needed. The concept is solid but it needs measurements.

I envision the simplest way to use this gravity engine is in reciprocation. ie. as in the handle of a well hand pump. A small force will activate the long leverage to lift something and then a small force will un-leverage (reduce) the long leverage so the machine can go back where it started from to repeat the lifting cycle.

The nut at the top of the photo balances "the wheel/hubcap" so it can rotate and lift something. And the dowel at the bottom is the pivot for the door/flap that makes the long and short leverage. The photo shows the short leverage parallel to the axle where it can rotate almost effortlessly.

I did the leverage mock up and the long leverage does make rotation and the short leverage does balance the machine for resetting back to noon. That being the case then the set will make rotation and the un-leverage will let the machine rotate back to noon on its own. Which is exactly what I have desired - a small force releases a larger force. So the only loss would be the work in for switching/setting.

[norman6538]

My measurements today look good. Output looks like 9 units of work (mass x distance) and the reset at 4 pm is 1 unit of work in and then the machine will rotate itself back to noon or 12:30 where 3.5 units of work in will set the long leverage so it can repeat the cycle.
So the efficiency is about 200% OU. If it drops down to 6 there is less leverage but some momentum which could increase the efficiency...
For simplicity I prefer stopping at 4 or 4:30 where it will then reset itself back to noon or so.

I have always said it takes about 300% OU for self running because of the switching work in losses.

This is quite close. Like many of you I will be pre-occupied with Christmas and family preservation.



The easy way to understand this is think of a seesaw with a 20 yr old boy and a 10 yr old boy who weighs less than the 20 yr old. if the 20 yr old slids up toward the pivot they would be balanced and little effort would be required to move up and down. But better yet picture the 10 yr old boy on a swivel at the end of the seesaw so he can rotate away past the end of the seesaw which increases the leverage and then rotating back toward the pivot so decreases the leverage . They would go up and down with very little effort applied.

Norman

[norman6538]

I completed the measurements today. 4 units of work out and 1 unit of work to change the leverage to make or reset that leverage. So on to the clockwork....

But first I will manually position the weights to create the work out to show that it will work....
So picture a marble machine where you put one marble in place and it lifts 4 marbles. And then you take one of those marbles to switch/reset it so that it can lift 4 more marbles. So you lift 4 and then use 2 to repeat that cycle and have 2 left over....That is better than I expected.

I am surprised it has taken me sooooo long - over 15 years...

Norman

[norman6538]

My embodiments are very crude and difficult to measure but I present another idea today.

I strive for a small force (the set) that releases a larger force that can then be the reset and repeated giving overunity.

Now imagine instead of a pulley and rope with 2 equal weights - a triangle with 2 equal weights and three pulleys at each corner. With one weight in the lower left corner and one at the apex. You can imagine rotating the weights clockwise until the apex weight is in the lower right corner and the lower left corner weight is up at the apex. It will take very little work to move those paired weights BUT in that movement we have shifted the mass (2 moved weights) to the right and the CG to the left.

So this shift can lift another weight or two resulting in a small force releasing a larger force.

It will not let me attach a drawing.

Norman

[ggx9]

Pulleys and weights are fairly easy to set up compared to something like an SSG or Mikes machine for example.
Have you tried your description, Norman?

RichardG

[norman6538]

Yes Richard I have worked on it almost everyday and it all boils down to "is there enough to do the switching" and that takes about 300% OU and I do not get that. OU exists but switching is the "gotcha" to get to self running.
I present these ideas because you never know when it will trigger a modification that can self run.

About the seesaw. When one end goes down then there is an upgrade that has to be paid for and I tried keeping the pivot level and that has a price to pay also.

Norman

[norman6538]

I made a drawing of the various positions of the Mallaradet wheel and see the following.
At noon it is easy to move the arm/weight parallel to the wheel where leverage is max but as it rotates a problem develops. At 3pm the arm/weight is down below the axle and the same till the 5 or 6 o'clock position and will have to be raised which means a subtle unexpected loss.therefore there will be very little gain due to these losses. At first I thought that gain would continue to 6 where the reset would be as easy as the set at noon. But worse than that where the weight further from the axle the leverage is max and closer to the axle the leverage changes to minimum as it rotates. So going past 3pm the gain is reduced significantly. So the real gain is mostly in the first
quadrant.

And if you draw a line at each weight you will see that it is a tad bottom heavy below the axle which means it will slow down. So it is with most ideas I have looked at. It is very hard to keep the CG above the axle and then reset..

The CG is the first thing I look for in an idea.


Norman

[ggx9]

Hi Norman.
In post #9 you said you could not attach a drawing. Have you tried to use the camera icon here above and to the left of my comment window (where it says "Write something"} after you take a photo of your drawing and save it on your desktop computer?
Here is a sample photo of a drawing from my computer.

RichardG

[norman6538]

Thanks. No I did not see the camera icon but thanks to you I do. And to the right I see the attach Icon too. Norman