Wikileaks News

[Aaron]

Wikileaks says pull your money from Bank of America

From latest Wikileaks twitter posts:
http://twitter.com/wikileaks

Does your business do business with Bank of America? Our advise is to place your funds somewhere safer.

We ask that all people who love freedom close out their accounts at Bank of America.

Bank of America bans ALL transactions to WikiLeaks Bank of America says it won't process payments intended for WikiLeaks - KansasCity.com[IMG]chrome://searchshield/content/clock12.png[/IMG] receive better interest: WikiLeaks - Support

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If they say somewhere safer, I wonder if that means that their
Bank of America info they will release could damage the bank so much
it could crash?

[noises]

I won't say much, shouldn't have to, but notice how nearly all of the people who're against wikileaks are from the far right? I thought at first the anti semites were having a whine because there were no leaks yet on Israel, or US/Israel diplomatic cables. Then, while reviewing some of the links and videos attacking wikileaks, I noticed it's not just accusations of Assange being a "jew lover." No, there's even people blogging that Bradley Manning is Julian Assange's gay lover. The penny dropped.



Ok, if you're still hung up on other people's sexuality, don't even speak to me, that's my attitude to homophobia. And I guess, if you're also trying to whip up support for your cause (attempting to discredit wikileaks,) the best places to start would be where you usually find sympathy, and among your political allies.

So who's openly attacking wikileaks? Well the first two big names that spring to mind are both financial corporations, Mastercard and Visa. A swiss bank, who's name escapes me. Bank of America. The far right factions of the US government. The military and government intelligence agencies. Fox news and other right-leaning news outlets are particularly critical, even though they keep saying "wikileaks hasn't told us anything we didn't already know." Amazon (another multi billion dollar corporation.) Teaparty patriots, who instead of saying this is harmless stuff we already all knew, say instead it's dangerous state secrets that will get troops killed. All these groups have one thing in common, they occupy the right to the far right of the political landscape.

Is it any surprise then that the grassroots far right groups, like the vocal anti-semites Not people like the palestinians, who're using due process and diplomacy to try to negotiate peace with Israel. I mean the fanatical anti-jewish hatemongers who, rather than ever talk about solutions or coming up with a strategy to actually take back the US government from this alleged zionist takeover plot, or provide help or political leverage to take the pressure off the palestinians, lebanese and syrian people, just blame jews for pretty much everything and try to keep people afraid and distrustful. Now that's a thinly disguised perpetual, solution-less campaign to get stupid, ignorant people's attention away from the real culprits behind the erosion of democracy in the US, the corporates and the lobby groups. People who aren't just making noise are people who provide solutions, rather than simply feeding fear and paranoia.

If you're the kind of person who's already fooled as soon as someone says "jew" or "homosexual," into applying a conditioned, reactionary, hateful response, if those words make your brain shut down and your mouth start working on autopilot, do yourself a favor and don't bother trying to engage me in a discussion. It will be short, unpleasant and quite possibly rather humiliating for you.

I'm not attacking any of these right wing points of view, even though the extremes of these views, and the presentation of them in their most extreme forms, are quite rightly illegal in most civilised countries. I'm merely pointing out for the benefit of anyone who hasn't noticed yet, the attacks on wikileaks and Julian Assange are coming from the far right of the political scale, traditionally where you find opposition to the concepts of human rights and freedom of speech, and find instead unfettered, deregulated industrial exploitation of the common man, and systemic facism. What is most interesting to me, and only in passing, is that it is again the far left who is fighting for the instruments of freedoms of speech for the far right to slander us with.


And you're loved regardless.
Namaste.

[noises]

PFC Bradley Manning Has spent 4800 of the last 5000 hours in solitary confinement. Now that Assange is out, isn't it time to speak out for the man behind the leaks?

guess who's behind accusations of Assange and manning knowing each other? None other than the tame grayhat Adrian "Snitch" Lamo. Who's he, you ask? Oh nobody, just a guy who works with the NSA and FBI and is discredited and disrespected in most hacking circles for selling out. This isn't the first time he's told a government department exactly what they want to hear.

Before you take anything credited to Lamo on face value, see what his peers think of him, and why.
WikiLeaks 'Snitch' Hacker Adrian Lamo Faces Wrath of His Peers

[noises]

Australian PM has to admit Assange didn't break any Australian law:
Australian PM Changes Tone on WikiLeaks -- NTDTV.com

Wow! She didn't choke or stutter even once.

[Joit]

I won't say much, shouldn't have to, but notice how nearly all of the people who're against wikileaks are from the far right? I thought at first the anti semites were having a whine because there were no leaks yet on Israel, or US/Israel diplomatic cables. Then, while reviewing some of the links and videos attacking wikileaks, I noticed it's not just accusations of Assange being a "jew lover." No, there's even people blogging that Bradley Manning is Julian Assange's gay lover. The penny dropped.

Something i learned at the past, there cant be a left or right Partie or Side, just a middle.
But the Parties we got right now are only for the Purpose, to have an unbalanced Weight between Welfare and Warfare.
The Program what the one Partie runs over her elected Time creates only
deficits at certain Parts of the Economy and Life,
what the other Partie covers again,
and at last it is only a big Fools Game.

Whom to blame?
May compare it with a Bank, whom do you want to blame,
the little Employee at the Desk, what hands you Money or the Leader from a
local agency, maybe, because they still work for this Scam institution?
Or the Teachers and Professors at Universitys
what do teach us a lot of Crap, where it is her convincement,
that we do need it for our Life.
For the Parties it is maybe the same, you cannot blame all,
but there are certain Persons, what are at the Key positions,
and what do the Decicsions which are against the Peoples,
and just for the Advantage of certain Circles.
And it is like a Red Line, that they are connected to Intelligence Services,
Army, Banks, Israel with her double Citizenship, different Companys with Econonomical Interests, Medias and some more.
Now when you look at the Persons, what get indentified
to work only on her own Purpose, you find a lot of Jews Peoples
there,
and that has nothing to do anymore with beeing anti semitic.
It are Facts, that they do hurt and fool us more, as to serve us
for a better Future, when they are at the Politic or anywhere else.

Even opposite, They call you a Goyim what has no other Sense for his Live
as to serve them.

Former Chief Rabbi of Israel says non-Jews born only to serve Jews - International Middle East Media Center
Goyim non-Jews were born only to serve us
On Saturday, the spiritual leader of the right-wing Israeli 'Shas' movement, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, made a speech to followers in which he compared non-Jews to donkeys, and said that they were put on earth only to serve Jews.



Yosef said, "Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.” He continued saying, "Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat."

He added, “With gentiles, it will be like any person - they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.”

Although the Shas movement is considered an extreme right-wing group, it is part of the coalition government currently in charge of the Israeli government, and many of its members are in key decision-making positions in the current government.

Rabbi Yosef has made many such controversial speeches in the past. Although, right-wing Zionists say he was an inspiration for their attacks against Palestinians, Yosef has never been charged with incitement by Israeli authorities.

The reference to non-Jews as subhuman or like animals is common in extreme right Orthodox interpretations of Judaism. In addition to the Shas movement, which is a leading movement among Israeli settlers in the West Bank, the Chabad movement also adheres to this idea.

Abraham Kook, a theologian of the Israeli settler movement who has a religious college in Jerusalem named for him, has stated that “The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews — all of them in all different levels — is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.”

Although the comments made by Rabbi Yosef on Saturday were criticized by several groups, including the US-based Anti-Defamation League, the Israeli government has made no effort to distance itself from the position taken by its former Chief Rabbi.

So how free do you feel like,
when you know, your Sense should be
over longer Term just to Serve jewish Population.

But there are even other Jews, what are against Israels Politic,
but what get chased for her Position to this Politic.
I even know Storys from before 60 Years,
where Peoples said, Jewish Peoples been actually friendly Persons too,
so it is again not like, that you can trow all in one Pot.
Someone else mentioned about WW2, that it was a big Game,
where this Hard Core of Jews tried to get rid of the integrated Jews,
beside Millions of Christians.

Somehow strange, that it seems it are allways this Outsiders like Bisexuals,
what leak Informations, as if noone else have the guts for that.
That is a Point where i think, we really should think we should reconsider
our Stance about certain Things.
Even, that some Things should be keeps secret, but some things cant be a secret.
But reconsidering dont helps a lot, because when you go outside
and need to listen to the jabbering from some Neighbours,
some Fellows or the Medias, you get instantly brainwashed again.

[noises]

I'm going to ask people put down the blogs and switch off youtube for the day.

Spend your time investigating a book of Chinese philosophy called The Art Of War. You could read it in a day, easy.

It doesn't tell you how to make a bomb. It has nothing to do with the technical side of squad combat and you won't learn anything about intersecting fields of fire.

What you will learn about is conflict, and having a pragmatic attitude towards it. Now conflict needn't mean the guns are out. Two people can have a conflict over who passes through a doorway first.

What the Tao teaches me, is, to stick with the two people and a door analogy, is to simply to pick my battles. Is it essential to my real objectives that I go through the door first? If it is, how do I achieve that aim, without the need to fight with the other person? It may be as simple as quickening my stride, or stepping to the left to make use of a small gap in the people between us and the door.

What the Tao teaches is fighting is a last resort. If a bunch of, pardon my verbosity, bloody insane right wing power trippers, wants to enslave me, and my objective is to remain free, then the smartest thing I can do, once I'm aware of the threat they present, is avoid conflict with them. To not even come into day to day contact with them.

If they seek to enslave me through economic means, then I'll avoid the economic system. I'l;l work for cash only, and avoid paying taxes other than sales taxes on things I can't avoid paying sales tax on.

If they seek to enslave me through ideological means, I will resist by accepting no ideology without careful examination of it's principle tenets. If it is ideology of free thinking and independence, I will employ it, so long as it fits my primary objective.

If by their deceptions and attempts to manipulate me, they unwittingly provide me with ammunition I can use to hinder their attempts to enslave me, I will use it. What I think of wikileaks becomes immaterial when I understand the vast wealth of legal ammunition it presents to the left in their primary objctive, protecting the universal human rights of all people from anyone, or any entity, who would attack those rights.

IF some massive right wing jewish conspiracy is behind wikileaks, then they have made a grave error by providing the citizens of the US, and indeed, the whole world, with the legal ammunition they need to remove obvious co-conspirators Hillary Clinton from public office forever, and proving the public with the means to potentially bring down a bank. Forget this "wikileaks hasn't told us anything we didn't already know," garbage coming from various parties and interests at the far right end of the political spectrum. Wikileaks HAS given us something we NEVER had... EVIDENCE of what many people only ever suspected. And in the information age, evidence is ammunition.

Now is not the time to bicker about one thing or another. To paraphrase the Tao, a wise general would be using this massive media attention to it's full advantage, taking the information on wikileaks and using it, adding to the information wikileaks makes available to achieve their goals.

If your goal is to keep people worried, mute, angry and powerless, tell them there's a massive conspiracy behind all this, don't do anything with this information, instead, persue a course of racial and religious prejudice (which is outlawed in point of fact, for right or wrong,) and get yourself into trouble with the regulators of free speech for unrelated crimes relating to hate speech, instead of fighting for your right to speak freely, by proxy, by arguing for wikileaks. Appeal to their conditioned fears. Work on their deep seated prejudices. Distract them, get them arguing about things instead of DOING things.

Make no mistake, I encourage nobody to lay down and let any conspirator of any flavor attack the freedoms and rights which I believe are your human birthright, be you jew or gentile, man or woman, rich or poor. In fact, I encourage people to do what I've done, if you see someone else getting kicked by the jackboot of oppression, step in on their side and risk getting some skin off your knuckles, literally if you can, figuratively if you can't. make some noise, raise a hue and cry. Get on your horse, grab a lantern and start letting others know the redcoats are coming. call it how you see it.

What I don't advise is getting in my way when I'm on a ride like that. I follow the Tao, and I follow my heart. What I don't advise is retreating into ways of thinking that have been around for over 100 years and have yet to change anything for the better. What I don't advise is ignoring the massive pile of ammunition at your disposal to weaken the common enemy ( conspiratorial forces who covet secrecy and power, whoever they are, whatever gods they pray to,) and failing to make life far more difficult for them, weaken their power structures, remove their co-conspiritors from public office by lawful means, use this as a chance to empower yourself and make others feel empowered. But each to their own. I only hope at least one person reads this, sees some sense, and decides to ACT.

And seriously, if you haven't already, go and read the Tao of war, and change the way you think about conflict.

[noises]

Watch the inconsistencies, see through the lies.

MITCHELL: This is Vice President Joe Biden, who told me that the leaked cables created no substantive damage -- only embarrassment . . . .

BIDEN: And I came in [to the U.N.] almost all to embraces - it wasn't just shaking hands - I know these guys, I know these women - they still trust the United States - there's all kinds of --

MITCHELL: So there's no damage?

BIDEN: I don't think there's any damage. I don't think there's any substantive damage, no. Look, some of the cables are embarrassing . . . but nothing that I'm aware of that goes to the essence of the relationship that would allow another nation to say: "they lied to me, we don't trust them, they really are not dealing fairly with us."

Here's the very same Joe Biden, in a preview of an interview with David Gregory -- taped the following day, Thursday, December 17 -- to air this Sunday on Meet the Press, gravely lamenting that Julian Assange has harmed American foreign relations.

BIDEN: "This guy has done things that have damaged and put in jeopardy the lives and occupations of other parts of the world. He's made it more difficult for us to conduct our business with our allies and our friends. For example, in my meetings -- you know I meet with most of these world leaders -- there is a desire to meet with me alone, rather than have staff in the room: it makes things more cumbersome -- so it has done damage."

Wikileaks & Julian Assange are to the war on freedom of information what WMDs were to the war in Iraq. Chew long and hard before you swallow what the media and the government are trying to feed you. Demand accountability. Demand no "net neutrality" (ie, internet filtering by you ISP,) Demand freedom of speech be protected, and demand justice and lawful process for PFC B. Manning. make it a topic of conversation, be informed and inform others. The fight is not over, the (dis)information war is just beginning.

[noises]

I wonder if Gabriel Schoenfeld is the same Person as here.
Author « Necessary Secrets – Gabriel Schoenfeld


The Video seems is not at this Link anymore.

Yes it's the same guy.

I'm sorry, are you saying you're not seeing the c-span video at this link any more?
Wikileaks,the Espionage Act, and the Constitution - C-SPAN Video Library
I still see it there, on the right hand side at the top of screen, you have to press play though, it doesn't auto play.

[noises]

Wikileaks US cables DO contain disinformation.

The first instance of outrights lies being included in the material leaked to wikileaks has been uncovered.

this cable says...

-- XXXXXXXXXXXX stated that Cuban authorities have banned Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko," as being subversive. Although the film's intent is to discredit the U.S. healthcare system by highlighting the excellence of the Cuban system, he said the regime knows the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash by showing to Cubans facilities that are clearly not available to the vast majority of them.

Michael Moore has already responded to this claim in his blog here, in a blog entry entitled "Viva Wikileaks!"

Put down the smelling salts Moore is quite rightly pointing out something VERY important. After all the trouble people like Moore have gone to defending wikileaks, they're now faced with evidence wikileaks has been manipulated and been given dis-information. They've found evidence of a bare faced lie, told by a US diplomat in an official govt communique, or that a source of a diplomat lied to the diplomat. It takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion based on this that either wikielaks is part of a disinfo campaign (lets allow them a right of reply...) or that all the information on wikileaks is disinformation. If you do arrive at either conclusion, please do yourself a huge favor and google deductive reasoning, then learn how to do it properly.

Every information gathering network on the planet is exposed to this risk. That's why people check their own facts. It doesn't expose wikileaks as being complicit in the disinformation. In fact, as an obvious target of the US intelligence services, is it even remotely surprising that the organisation might have been subjected to a disinformation program? does it make everything on wikileaks a lie? Not really. But it does call into serious question the veracity of the rest of the cables, and it shows just how utterly terrified of an instrument like wikileaks some people in the US government must be of an open source whistleblower website, to go to such extraordinary, high profile and ultimately risky extremes to discredit it. (if that's what happened. let's not forget it may be an accurate report of a conversation taken in good faith, which contained lies.)

So add disinformation programs to the death threats and trumped up charges that originally made me think Mr Assange is doing something right.

[Joit]

BIDEN: "This guy has done things that have damaged and put in jeopardy the lives and occupations of other parts of the world. He's made it more difficult for us to conduct our business with our allies and our friends.

Is it her 'normal' Way to judge about her Friends in a form of Documentation
about her Habits and her Behaviors?
I do know that more from Fights, where some study the Properties of is Opponent.
It seems this Guys really dont know, what Value it is, to call someone Friend or allied.

Their Statements are all time actually Slaps into anyones Face,
who looks a bit unbiased at the Releases and for me,
the Releases have more the Sideeffect to see something
from the Peoples behind the Gouvernment as more from the
Gouvernment itself.

[noises]

ARE YOU AN AMERICAN CITIZEN?

Are you ashamed, as some of the members of this forum have indicated

at our own government (the US) in light of the attrocities commited in the name of war.

Did you find the Collateral Murder Video showing what some people in the US armed forces are capable of doing to civilians (and children,) in Iraq hard to watch?

Well, you're going to be devestated by this... Here's an account of how PFC Manning (the wikileaker) has been spending his days since he was brought back to the US from the brig in Iraq.

18 december 2010

A Typical Day for PFC Bradley Manning

PFC Manning is currently being held in maximum custody. Since arriving at the Quantico Confinement Facility in July of 2010, he has been held under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch.

His cell is approximately six feet wide and twelve feet in length.

The cell has a bed, a drinking fountain, and a toilet.

The guards at the confinement facility are professional. At no time have they tried to bully, harass, or embarrass PFC Manning. Given the nature of their job, however, they do not engage in conversation with PFC Manning.

At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up (on weekends, he is allowed to sleep until 7:00 a.m.). Under the rules for the confinement facility, he is not allowed to sleep at anytime between 5:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. If he attempts to sleep during those hours, he will be made to sit up or stand by the guards.

He is allowed to watch television during the day. The television stations are limited to the basic local stations. His access to the television ranges from 1 to 3 hours on weekdays and 3 to 6 hours on weekends.

He cannot see other inmates from his cell. He can occasionally hear other inmates talk. Due to being a pretrial confinement facility, inmates rarely stay at the facility for any length of time. Currently, there are no other inmates near his cell.

From 7:00 p.m. to 9:20 p.m., he is given correspondence time. He is given access to a pen and paper. He is allowed to write letters to family, friends, and his attorneys.

Each night, during his correspondence time, he is allowed to take a 15 to 20 minute shower.

On weekends and holidays, he is allowed to have approved visitors see him from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m.

He is allowed to receive letters from those on his approved list and from his legal counsel. If he receives a letter from someone not on his approved list, he must sign a rejection form. The letter is then either returned to the sender or destroyed.

He is allowed to have any combination of up to 15 books or magazines. He must request the book or magazine by name. Once the book or magazine has been reviewed by the literary board at the confinement facility, and approved, he is allowed to have someone on his approved list send it to him. The person sending the book or magazine to him must do so through a publisher or an approved distributor such as Amazon. They are not allowed to mail the book or magazine directly to PFC Manning.


Due to being held on Prevention of Injury (POI) watch:

PFC Manning is held in his cell for approximately 23 hours a day.

The guards are required to check on PFC Manning every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. PFC Manning is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.

He receives each of his meals in his cell.

He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. However, he is given access to two blankets and has recently been given a new mattress that has a built-in pillow.

He is not allowed to have any personal items in his cell.

He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read in his cell. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep.

He is prevented from exercising in his cell. If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop.

He does receive one hour of “exercise” outside of his cell daily. He is taken to an empty room and only allowed to walk. PFC Manning normally just walks figure eights in the room for the entire hour. If he indicates that he no long feels like walking, he is immediately returned to his cell.

When PFC Manning goes to sleep, he is required to strip down to his boxer shorts and surrender his clothing to the guards. His clothing is returned to him the next morning.

posted by army court-martial defense specialist

The Law Office of David E. Coombs: A Typical Day for PFC Bradley Manning

Try that for two days.
I like how they say he's in isolation for 23 hours a day, and then they say the 1 hour he's not in isolation, he's in a empty excercise room by himself...

... So that would be 24 hours a day in isolation, really, minus the positive spin on that other hour.

[noises]

The Independent yesterday shed further light on one of the motives for the repressive conditions imposed on Manning: namely, that U.S. officials believe it is "crucial" to "persuade" Manning to testify against WikiLeaks if they are to convict Assange, i.e., to "persuade" Manning to say that WikiLeaks did not merely passively receive classified information, but actively provided Manning technical and other assistance in advance to access and disseminate classified information. The more inhumane the conditions are of Manning's detention, the greater pressure the Government can apply to induce him -- "persuade" him -- to testify how they need him to testify in order to prosecute Assange.

Reports of quotes from latest US judiciary earing into wikileaks.

But isn't using cruel and unusual punishment to illicit evidence a good way of making such evidence worthless in any court, even a kangaroo one? You know, because it's like using torture to garner a confession?

Isolation = psychological torture. "persuading" a man who's being held in solitary confinement to testify what you want him to testify... I can't believe what I'm seeing! The US just gave a press conference saying they hope their program to torture an inmate in one of their prisons gets them the testimony they need to try to prosecute a foreign national for treason?

This is not a good way to win hearts and minds abroad. It's a great way to lose them at home, I'd imagine. You guys should start rioting, in the face of such insanity from the government we probably would.

For shame.

[Mad Scientist]

ARE YOU AN AMERICAN CITIZEN?

Are you ashamed, as some of the members of this forum have indicated

Here is the real problem. If you were to ask someone over here “who is PFC Bradley Manning” ? I seriously doubt that one in a hundred, and that is probably low, would have even the slightest idea. If he is not a member of some professional sports team then obviously he is nobody of importance.

As far as being held being held under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch, with exception of someone working there, I doubt anyone here could tell you what the procedure is. I would like to think that I am reasonably well informed but even I had no idea. Being force to watch commercial TV now that is truly cruel and unusual punishment. I think water boarding would be more humane.

Considering the nature of his offense this type of solitary confinement is way over the top. Unless it is all part of the plan to say to the sheeple if you expect us to protect you we really need to be able to control what you can see and do on the internet. The really sad part is that for many that will seem like a reasonable request

[noises]

OK, now I'm , I was going to say angry but I'm not really. To be honest I don't know how I feel. A bit sick, totally convinced of the importance to resist this by exposing the truth....

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/1...spain-proposed

Sounds like the RIAA has more diplomatic clout than anyone knew about. lets hope the financial leaks coming expose crimes to make it possible to put those scumbags in solitary for good.

[Joit]

OK, now I'm , I was going to say angry but I'm not really. To be honest I don't know how I feel. A bit sick, totally convinced of the importance to resist this by exposing the truth....

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/1...spain-proposed

Lol welcome to the Club.
As i said often, i start digging at the Dirt, and as more you dig,
as more Dirt comes out.

And at last, it is a shame where we do live in.
But at last, everone has a free choice where he do live in.
Just swim at the Direction of the River and try to have a good time or against it.
Else, i think you can find all possible Crimes from our Ruling Class.
Its not a honest Game, but at any case, 'something good to know'.

About the Art of War, i think you mean Sun Tzu on the Art of War,
thats what i did read a bit now.

Well, avoide enslavement anyhow works till a certain Point, for my Opinion,
but when you get into a Corner, it is maybe hard to avoide,
that you get involved into the processes.
Or like Aaron wrote before a While, When there is somewhere a Problem,
dont think on the Problem, that you dont give it a Reason to exist,
and it will vanish. Or something like this.
But not sure if it works in any case, especially, when you are to much involved into it,
even, because most Peoples have a secondary Role,
and looks like, you cant say, this Thing dont exist.
Under worse Circumstances. it seems for me, you only move the Problem to
another Place, that it can get triggered again.
Anyhow this is often at our ruled Life,
you avoide to get involved at certain Processes, but it still exist around us.
For myself, i dont stop digging at all.