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  • #76
    Anut, where in the leaked pager transcripts you've copied and pasted does it say Julian assange is working for or with the CIA? How does any of the information posted cover up anything? I'm sorry, I just don't get what your point is, or how it might relate to any bias either Julian Assange or Wikileaks has.

    Here's some comments on where this whole "julian is a CIA stooly" comes from.
    So how is it that Julian Assange has been transformed by 911-truthers from being a victim of plots to kill him and a fellow anti-establishment seeker into a, patsy, or a CIA agent, or an enemy of 9/11 skeptics?

    Conspiracywatch says the answer is obvious. They claim that some of the documents revealed by or in the possession of Wikileaks contain embarrassing content for 911-truthers by lifting a corner of the cover protecting Hamid Gul, the ex-Head of the Pakistani Secret Services, who the truthers have always said they value as “a source.” These documents suggest that he may have secretly supported both the Taliban and AlQaida. Gul has often accused the CIA and Mossad of being behind the 9/11 attacks.

    So the dilemma for 911-truthers, according to Conspiracy Watch, is how to reconcile the emerging evidence that Gal has always supported the Taliban and Al-Qaida in their war against the West with the dual fact that he has supported Truthers too, most of whom claim that 9/11 had nothing to do with the Taliban and Al Qaida, but everything to do with George Bush?

    And that dilemma, according to Conspiracy Watch, is partially due to the published content of Assange’s documents and that of documents to come.

    Read more: 9/11 skeptics say Julian Assange being manipulated by the CIA
    I also find it interesting that most of the people now saying wikileaks is a CIA front have directly competing alt/news websites, blogs, youtube channels and the like. Don't listen to Julian, listen to us, they say. Come read our website, Not Julian's, they tell me. Wikileaks real leaked documents bad, our brand of crazy conspiracy theory good, they claim.

    But each to their own.

    See, Like Julian, I too think the more wacky conspiracies and conspiracy nuts do a disservice to the truth, by making the whole truth movement look like it's full of crazy people with way out ideas. I bet if you asked him, Mr Assenge would probably agree 100% that 911 was a false flag attack. It's just he seems to think the world has bigger conspiracies to bring out into the open, ones about which we can actually do something. And I think that's a very fair and valid point.

    "Any time people with power plan in secret, they are conducting a conspiracy. So there are conspiracies everywhere. There are also crazed conspiracy theories. It's important not to confuse these two. Generally, when there's enough facts about a conspiracy we simply call this news. I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud. What about the Bilderberg conference?"[/b]

    J. Assange
    Seems to me, what he's saying there is "don't be distracted by 911, look at the bigger picture, look at the worse things that are happening in the world today." All he's really doing is saying there are more, and far worse, conspiracies than 911, that are still happening, and it's a waste to ignore them to focus on 911, which was over almost ten years ago. And the conspiracies he would rather we focused our attention on, things that really do matter, that you CAN do something about, he's in the front line, risking his life and freedom to publish the truth about. I'm sorry if you can't respect that, but I do, and will continue to.
    Last edited by noises; 12-09-2010, 01:46 PM.
    “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

    Comment


    • #77
      I figured out, that i dont trust anymore
      Pages or Persons, what use the Term
      'Truthers' or 'New Age'ers'.
      I then do know, that they are not reliable or honest,
      just debunkers.

      Before a While there been some Rumors,
      that there are Paidwriters, what go online, through the Web,
      and disinform with her Articles and Comments.
      Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.

      Comment


      • #78
        More reading, for those (like me,) who abhor the crime of rape, and therefore find it difficult to feel sympathy for or solidarity with the wikileaks founder.

        Julian Assange in the Honey Trap by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com

        Perhaps if you read the particulars of the accusation, you'll understand that in this case, it's more than ok to defend an allged rapist, because the allegations are a farce, plain and simple.
        “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by noises View Post
          You're wrong. The Australian government is doing nothing to defend him. They're not even offering so much as a token "hey, this guy's an Australian citizen, he can't be guilty of treason in the US." Gillard has utterly hung him out to dry. As far as she's concerned, he's guilty (but she can't or won't say of what exactly.)
          New development. The Attorney General has stated that it is a criminal offense to obtain classified material, but the Attorney-General office has said it had yet to receive any advice on what, if any, Australian laws had been breached.

          The AFP (Australian Federal Police) would not comment beyond saying

          "The AFP will continue to work with the Attorney-General's Department as the lead agency in relation to this matter."

          So the AFP and the Australian Federal Governemnt and the Attorney General's office are all working hard to find a law Julian has broken. That's interesting, isn't it? Even if they did have a crime of which to accuse Mr Assange, due process would require a presumption of innocence. They've already said he's guilty, but they're still trying to decide of what exactly? Wow. Way to provide protection for an Australian citizen there, Julia!

          Of course, their campaign to find something, anything to charge him with wouldn't have anything to do with the leaked cables that show one of the sitting members of Julia's own government was a mole, providing intel on the Australian Government to the US on a number of occasions, one one occasion relating details of Julia Gillard's own power play to topple the last prime minister and assume the role herself, would it?

          But don't worry. Even though the Australian Govt. is busy trying to help the US persecute Mr Assange, political activists GETUP have collected funds with which to take out full page ads in the Washington Post and New York Times in an attempt to advocate for the embattled Australian citizen on the government's behalf, since they don't seem to want to do so themselves. Nice to know at least one political organisation in this country puts the interests of Australian citizens ahead of the desire to go along with everything the US govt tells them to do.
          “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

          Comment


          • #80
            Dear Prime Minister,

            We note with concern the increasingly violent rhetoric directed towards Julian Assange of WikiLeaks.“We should treat Mr Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him,” writes conservative columnist Jeffrey T Kuhner in the Washington Times.

            William Kristol, former chief of staff to vice president Dan Quayle, asks, “Why can’t we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are?”

            “Why isn’t Julian Assange dead?” writes the prominent US pundit Jonah Goldberg.

            “The CIA should have already killed Julian Assange,” says John Hawkins on the Right Wing News site.

            Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader; Rick Santorum, former Pennsylvania senator and potential presidential contender, accuses Assange of “terrorism”.

            And so on and so forth.

            Such calls cannot be dismissed as bluster. Over the last decade, we have seen the normalisation of extrajudicial measures once unthinkable, from ‘extraordinary rendition’ (kidnapping) to ‘enhanced interrogation’ (torture).

            In that context, we now have grave concerns for Mr Assange’s wellbeing.

            Irrespective of the political controversies surrounding WikiLeaks, Mr Assange remains entitled to conduct his affairs in safety, and to receive procedural fairness in any legal proceedings against him.

            As is well known, Mr Assange is an Australian citizen.

            We therefore call upon you to condemn, on behalf of the Australian Government, calls for physical harm to be inflicted upon Mr Assange, and to state publicly that you will ensure Mr Assange receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled, irrespective of whether the unlawful threats against him come from individuals or states.

            We urge you to confirm publicly Australia’s commitment to freedom of political communication; to refrain from cancelling Mr Assange's passport, in the absence of clear proof that such a step is warranted; to provide assistance and advocacy to Mr Assange; and do everything in your power to ensure that any legal proceedings taken against him comply fully with the principles of law and procedural fairness.

            A statement by you to this effect should not be controversial – it is a simple commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law.

            We believe this case represents something of a watershed, with implications that extend beyond Mr Assange and WikiLeaks. In many parts of the globe, death threats routinely silence those who would publish or disseminate controversial material. If these incitements to violence against Mr Assange, a recipient of Amnesty International’s Media Award, are allowed to stand, a disturbing new precedent will have been established in the English-speaking world.

            In this crucial time, a strong statement by you and your Government can make an important difference.

            We look forward to your response.
            That letter was originally signed by more than 80 Australian journalists, lawyers, doctors, civil rights advocates and even an independent MP.

            The article which quotes the letter in full received almost 5,000 comments in an hour, and caused the ABC's website to go down as more and more Australians logged in to sign their names in the comments as if it was an online petition. ABC is a government funded media service, so it's not surprising that comments for that article were first suspended, and then removed altogether. But not before they were cached

            If my government isn't listening, we might be due for a new government soon, one way or another.
            Last edited by noises; 12-09-2010, 09:46 PM.
            “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

            Comment


            • #81
              History in the making.

              want to read a declaration of war? correction. want to read the first ever declaration of war made by a non government entity?

              Anonops History

              The text contained in that link, in 200 years time, might be viewed the same way as we see the Declaration of Independence today, as a document that defined a pivotal point in history.

              Who are Anonymous? My understanding is: nobody. lots of people. somebody. anybody. There could be 100 of them, there could be 100,000. Nobody knows. They have no leaders, no membership lists, no clubhouse, you take down one of them and ten more come back to hit you even harder. They, I think, will become just as important player in this as Assange, Gillard and Obama. They've certainly stepped up to the plate with this wikileaks thing. Last I heard from them, they were busily dismantling Sen. S. Conroy's website and posting lists of credit card details from people who had donated to him. (Conroy is Australia's Lieberman, the head "lock down the internet" guy in the US's Australian counterpart.)

              In my understanding, there's no limit to what Anon will do in pursuit of their goals. If I owned a visa or mastercard right now, I'd be putting a freeze on it, just in case. I'd be unplugging my modem when I wasn't online, unless I wanted my computer to be hijacked and used as a slave in a botnet. And like I said earlier, I'm backing up all my important data, because I think things are going to go absolutely crazy online over the next couple of weeks. These guys are known for playing hardball, and not being concerned about collateral data damage. And make no mistake, they're on the warpath. What was that word you used Aaron? Surreal? It just keeps getting more so.
              “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

              Comment


              • #82
                Who are Anonymous? My understanding is: nobody. lots of people. somebody. anybody
                Yes, i think about the same at this Term.
                But i think the hard core from it are a lot Peoples from Open source,
                where allready read enough at the News to see,
                that something going terrible wrong here over the Years.
                Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Bloggy tweets available elsewhere

                  Last edited by Aaron; 12-09-2010, 08:15 PM.
                  Sincerely,
                  Aaron Murakami

                  Books & Videos https://emediapress.com
                  Conference http://energyscienceconference.com
                  RPX & MWO http://vril.io

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    For the sake of balance, I'd like to declare my great admiration and respect for an American soldier. Ethan McCord, one of the soldiers on the ground, one of the first on the scene of the carnage that followed the infamous collateral murder video.

                    I've just watched a video of him talking about his experiences in Iraq, and on that day in particular. I'm weeping (crying silently,) as I type because I'm so moved by this soldier's personal choice to NOT be a drone, by the incredible strength of the indomitable goodness in his soul, by his compassion and most of all, by his integrity.

                    It takes courage to fight in a war, but it takes far more courage to stand up for what is right and good and humane. This video shows me what I remind myself of every day, there is more good in the world than evil. There is more kindness than cruelty. More love than fear. All it takes is for people to stand up for what they know is right, what they know is good, what they know is loving. And it's up to each of us to do exactly that, in our own way, at any chance we get.


                    Nada, this one's for you buddy.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI

                    And another American I respect, admire, agree with and wish every success...

                    YouTube - Ron Paul: "What We Need Is More WikiLeaks On The Federal Reserve"
                    Last edited by noises; 12-09-2010, 08:37 PM.
                    “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      More positive news, Paypal have released all frozen transactions in the wikileaks paypal account after seeing what Anonymous did to Visa and MasterCard.

                      No further donations to wikileaks will be processed by PayPal, but at least they've done the honorable thing and released the funds they were holding. Paypal's choice to have no further dealings with wikileaks is their prerogative AS YOUR CHOICE TO BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND EBAY COULD ALSO BE YOUR PREROGATIVE.



                      Also, in spite of the fact attacks on the wikileaks dns and other infrastructure are still happening, the gestap...sorry, police, have very quickly arrested a 16 year old in connection with the visa and mastercard DDOS attacks. My my my, how quickly these tame jackbooted stormtroopers leap to the defense of the corporates! It's a crying shame they can't extend the same level of diligence in their investigative talents to everyone who's had their computers targeted this week...

                      stay tuned, it's not over yet.
                      Last edited by noises; 12-10-2010, 03:06 AM.
                      “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Mainstream media have taken to using the term "wikileaks hackers" when talking about Anonymous. More misinformation. Anonymous have no affiliation with anyone. That's the whole point. But no, the media want us dummies to believe wikileaks is an evil terrorist organisation with their very own private army of hackers...

                        For years, Anonymous have responded to anyone who came to 4chan asking for help "we're not your army." They assist who they choose to assist, and never because they've been asked to. They have their own cause, and choose their own battles. Wikileaks has nothing to do with Anonymous, and Anonymous have nothing to do with wikileaks, other than their shared interest in freedom of speech on the internet and their shared abhorance of censorship.

                        Just watch how often mainstream news run this new accusation though, and as you wander around the internet posting comments and opinions here and there, point out the obvious, and do your bit to educate the masses.

                        Anonymous is not Wikileaks' army.
                        Last edited by noises; 12-09-2010, 10:25 PM.
                        “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          1368 mirrors and counting...
                          “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by noises View Post
                            Anut, where in the leaked pager transcripts you've copied and pasted does it say Julian assange is working for or with the CIA? How does any of the information posted cover up anything? I'm sorry, I just don't get what your point is, or how it might relate to any bias either Julian Assange or Wikileaks has.

                            ......... he's saying there is "don't be distracted by 911, look at the bigger picture, look at the worse things that are happening in the world today." All he's really doing is saying there are more, and far worse, conspiracies than 911, that are still happening, and it's a waste to ignore them to focus on 911, which was over almost ten years ago. And the conspiracies he would rather we focused our attention on, things that really do matter, that you CAN do something about, he's in the front line, risking his life and freedom to publish the truth about. I'm sorry if you can't respect that, but I do, and will continue to.
                            If my memory serves me well, he did say, "we verify the documents. As long as they are bona fide it doesn’t matter where they come from. We would rather not know.” I suppose they had already verified all the pager messages before publishing them in their website. But if my understanding is correct, none of the disclosed pager messages is new to us and none of them contradicts the version of truth being circulated on the internet. It is unclear what he meant by "false conspiracies".

                            I did not say he is working for or with cia. Regarding the so-called cable-gate, his website has not released any cabled materials exposing the sins of the individuals behind the wars. Instead, most of the released materials justify sanctions and military attacks on 1ran, which is exactly what 1srael has been yelling about. It is difficult for us to jump into conclusion at this stage until all the cabled materials are released.

                            ( EDIT: Apparently, he is inclined to demonize all the ongoing efforts related to fighting climate change. As I said, most of his disclosed materials serve to reinforce the neocon agenda.)
                            Last edited by anut; 12-10-2010, 03:48 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Report: U.S. Charges Against Julian Assange Imminent - World Watch - CBS News

                              PM 'showed contempt for law' | The Australian

                              Julia Gillard's Left flank revolts over WikiLeaks' Julian Assange | Herald Sun

                              Looks like the persecution goes ahead unabated, although not without some serious political consequence here, at least.

                              The balance of power in the Australian Govt is held by three men. Two independent MP's and a green Party MP. One of the Independent has put the labor govt on notice that he will withdraw his vital support on other issues over the treatment of Assange. This is what happens when you elect non-partisan governments, people in positions of power can speak without just reciting a party line, and really influence things. Odds on Gillard's talking to him already, trying to find a compromise like the lickspittle she is. Also, members of the ruling party have split from the party line and gone directly to the media to declare, "grave concerns at the language ministers and the Prime Minister are using in relation to Mr Assange."


                              Oh, and Julian's been moved into solitary, "for his own protection," even though contradictory reports from sources inside the prison said earlier Assange had a lot of positive interest and support from the other inmates when he arrived. His lawyer has also expressed dismay that Assange has been denied the use of a laptop and has only limited access to a phone to help prepare his defense. Bare in mind he hasn't been charged with anything at all yet apart from accusation of surprise sex Sweden downgraded the rape charge they sought extradition on, when one of the witnesses withdrew her rape complaint against him. Yet now he's in solitary and is being denied unfettered access to his lawyer. Do we have any English subjects on these forums who can write to their PM's about this?

                              I just can't believe the bare faced gall of this, to treat anyone like this while most of the world just sits and watches, eating popcorn and sucking their teeth at the humanity of it. Have any of you written to a politician yet, or written a letter to an editor of a big paper calling for the arrest of those who have incited others to murder Assange, or the hackers throwing DDOS attacks at wikileaks? I hope so, I've done both.

                              You don't have to be a hacker or a protester to write a letter expressing your views. Just be sure to ask a question, so someone has to take the time to actually answer you. Tie up those resources, letters with questions from the voters are like a real life version of a DDOS attack to politicians, if enough people are writing them. Write a comment it gets binned. Ask a question, they answer it or risk losing your votes.

                              Seriously people, this is a fight for freedom of speech like no other in our lifetimes. And it's winnable... if we act now. Please don't just sit there being entertained. Get involved.
                              Last edited by noises; 12-10-2010, 04:36 PM.
                              “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.”

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Noises, thanks for the links. The McCord one is highly disturbing... In some ways it gets to the heart of the matter about Wikileaks... this is why they want Assange DEAD.

                                The American people cannot know what horrors are done "in their name". The government cannot allow dissent to stop them from their "mission", a mission that has remained unchanged through both a Republican AND a Democrat administration.

                                What IS their "mission"?

                                over 1.3 million deaths in Iraq attributed to this war. How many were "mistakes"? How many were avoidable?

                                ALL of them were.

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