Wikileaks News

[ImBill]

How is that? Hate is a strong word but thats what noises expresses. He certainly doesnt like corporations. Also when someone labels america as a pre-world war two Germany, or has correlated capitalism to communism, I take it for what it is. Its not love for america he's expressing. So i respond to the links he provides with facts for what they are.

I don't like corporations either. In fact, there are plenty of things about this country that I don't like and would change if I could, as I'm sure you would as well. We have starving children in slums surrounded by gang violence and drugs within a few short miles of row after row of million dollar houses. Does my recognition of these problems and subsequent discussion of them constitute hate? For me, no. I love the ideals that this country was founded on and our constitution. However, I see those ideals and our freedoms being stripped from us on an almost constant basis. The constitution has been ignored by our government and is still being ignored.

While I don't agree entirely with all of the points in Noises' denunciation, I can see where he's coming from and do agree with the majority of it. I wouldn't compare it to Nazi Germany quite yet, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else makes the comparison. We certainly aren't a shining example of freedom anymore. I'll let him defend himself and his views, but I still don't think he's spewing hate, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Nadda]

I wouldn't compare it to Nazi Germany quite yet, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else makes the comparison.

thats where me and you part. i know most people here are very open minded and im sure im in the minority but when someone does compare america to nazi germany and compare capitalism to communism and makes a statment such as he lives in the lucky country (unlike america i assume) it is expressing hate, in my opinion. Either way, i try not to let that bother me, tons of people hate america and the western way of life for many different reasons. I agree we need to recognize and be aware of the problems that exist, but at the same time we cant take articles like ICE shutting down piracy websites and extrapolate it into ICE having the power to shut anyone down without cause or accountability. Thats not what happened.

Like i stated before, im by no means am saying america is great or that corporations do not abuse their power. Personally i like corporations, they provide most of what we own at a cheap and feasable price. Do i like the fact that they have so much power and control, no. Do, i like that they ship so many manufacturing jobs oversea, no. None the less, i still enjoy the products they provide and think they have every right to earn profit from what they create. I think of local companies and private businesses the same way.

[life4living]

If you dont agree with my opinion thats perfectly fine, many wont. but if your implying that i lied somewhere just let me know what part.

Nadda, how on earth did you see in my post an implication that you lied?

No, the point I was trying to make is that some 'facts' are not truth. They are often manipulations of information based on an agenda.

In terms of western governments, and the corporations that run them, the use of such manipulation is their modus operandi.

Didn't ya know that?

[Nadda]

With respect to you, Nadda, whose facts are you responding with?

My apologies, it sounded like you were saying i made up facts.

No, the point I was trying to make is that some 'facts' are not truth. They are often manipulations of information based on an agenda.

Your absolutly right, thats another area that corporations and governments can abuse and probably have for a long time. Whats worse who is to know what data is acturate or if its manipulated before anyone sees it. It looks like we cant even get accurate weather data without manipulations in data, or even get to see a live radar feed...

[ImBill]

thats where me and you part.

Dang it. Well, send me a postcard when you get where you're going.

[noises]

Well, I look at news from the US and see fascism and expansionist military actions and book burnings and relgious hysteria and violent right wing rhetoric and flags hanging off everything and citizens spying on citizens and a pervasive attitude of fear (some call it terror,) directed at an external enemy justifying a domestic police state, and I see remarkable similarities between all those things and the political and social climate in pre world war two Germany. Sorry if you find that offensive, it's an observation. I find other things offensive personally, not somebody pointing out these sorts of similarities, but the very fact of their existence. That really offends me. Especially coming from a country that is forever banging a drum and pontificating about freedom. How free's Bradley Manning, the last guy to report a US Military war crime? Not very, hey.

Now, I'm a musician, so before anyone offends anyone else, let's get one thing abundantly clear. Not one single cent the RIAA or a record or movie company has won in punitive damages for a copyright case has ever, EVER been passed along to the original artist(s). NOT ONE CENT. So put down the "pirates are ripping off artists" banner and actually talk to some artists. Find out how many people in bands have been raped by a contract that stole their work and made it property of Capital or Sony or BMG. Get your facts from the artists, not the newspapers owned by the same companies that own the record companies, because all you're reading there and hearing on the news is corporate protectionist propaganda. Those criminals, the ones who charge $30 retail for a cds an artist may see three cents off, get precisely no sympathy from me. I think everyone should steal from them, just to spite them. I also think people should use sites where they buy their music directly from the artists, and support live and local music. If you want to download MP3s, I'll gladly tell you where and how, because I think record companies, and especially the RIAA and their lawyers, are bottom feeders.

Don't bother trying to drag me into a my country's better than your country shouting match. I don't have any national pride to attack. At all. No partriotic button to push to get a negative reaction out of me, that "I bet you think australia will save the world" nonsense is just childish. The lucky country is just what Australia is called, sorry if you didn't know that.
the lucky country - Google Search
google knew it., first result for search term 'the lucky country.' It thought it has to do with our mineral wealth and climate, but in fact, it's a part of a famous line written by another Australian who dissented and criticised his government and his countrymen, to speak out as an idealist rather than a cheerleader.

'Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck.'

. Pick up your jaw, you'll catch flies.


The USSR was broken up 20 years ago. Maybe it's time to stop being afraid of reds under your beds. Maybe it's time to realise that the specter of communism's just another fear that's used to control people and shut down cognitive function. Not to mention hijack valid discussions on other topics, especially those discussions on topics the US has a poor track record with.

Calling critcism of any kind an attack on the US and a communism versus capitalism thing is so early 90's. I'm afraid it's just not like that for most people in the world, we don't have this all pervasive paranoid fear about communism, nor this capitalism is even more awesome than Chuck Norris stuffed inside Lee Marvin, stuffed inside John Wayne mentality drilled into us from when we learn to speak. We don't have a left over cold war paranoia that inserts the word communism into any criticism for us, even when it's not there. That's helpful when you want to have a rational debate, not having a conditioned response.

Seriously, go back and quote where I even mention communism. I was talking about the very real and very frequently ignored, not to mention really quite frightening realities in the US. Threats to the freedoms you were founded on. I'm talking about waking up to what happens when you fuel a country, or indeed, a planet, on greed and fear. People who don't need to get screwed over get screwed over by people looking to make another million or billion bucks. THAT"S NOT A GOOD THING! And you know who says it is? The guys who have a million or a billion bucks. And they teach this fallacy to everyone in the US from birth, capitalism is freedom, communism is oppression. The very fact I can't even be critical of the obvious built in flaws in the capitalist system without you automatically assuming I'm a communist, without my even mentioning the word, just drives home how polarised your thinking must be on the subject. And I've seen it before. You could even call it a common conditioned response. Do you know anyone who's home was sold out from under them when the sub prime market collapsed? Or anyone who's business in a gulf state fishery has been adversely effected by the BP oil spill? Well, those people are victims of capitalism. It's not this perfect system, it's very nearly as bad as communism, unless it's strictly regulated. Of course, the regulations that stop capitalism from becoming a bad thing were removed in most countries during the 1980's. 30 years on, we're all paying for it, except those very, very few who're profiting enormously from it. That strikes me as grossly offensive and wrong. Corrupt. Unlawful. Inexcusable. I speak out against things like that. having such a voice doesn't actually make me a commie, or a pinko, or even a fag.

I love how along with the baseless accusation of communist sympathies the cookie cutter accusation comes out that I hate America... so I hate a land mass, do I? Mate, I don't hate anything much, except greed, seeing the strong exploit or abuse the weak, or a minority of bad people in power over a majority of good. Oh and brussle sprouts. Other than that, I'm ambivalent about most things. I'm harshly critical of my own government, and have been published 4 of the last 5 "Australia day" holidays writing deeply critical op ed pieces about the racism that is rife in my country, our constant pandering to US policy and a piece that would mean nothing to you because it's an Australian issue, but is actually something I'm hugely proud of, pointing out that real apologies are more than hot air, instead of mindlessly waving a flag and going ozzy ozzy ozzy in the hope some brain dead yobbo will respond with an oi oi oi on our so called national day of pride. It'd be like you using the 4th of july as the day you choose to criticise your country in writing, in the open press. I don't do it because I hate my country, I do it because if we could address these issues, I'd have a reason to love my country more. The idea is, I'll reserve my patriotic pride for a time when I'm actually proud of my country, thanks.. in the meantime, I'd like to talk about what's keeping that pride at bay for me. In my mind, that's patriotism. Constructive criticism. Or destructive. It's all the same. It's still just spotlighting issues and encouraging debate.

See, I feel before my country has any right to expect me to be proud of it, it must earn my pride. And I happen to believe there is not a single country in the world that couldn't be better if more of it's citizens felt the same way, instead of leaping to defend it from any criticism with the same tired accusations and assumptions.

[noises]

lol @ thinking techdirt's a blog.

More & Bigger Mistakes Discovered In Homeland Security's Domain Seizures | Techdirt
The article there is by a technology expert with a background in law. And an american, I might add, who is pointing out...

Why do I bother? This is like trying to reason with marines about how wrong it is to kill without question. You just risked getting bashed up for challenging their indoctrination, because the defensive reflex is built in right alongside the ideology.

[noises]

In this case you brought up Amazon itself didnt infringe on anyones copyright.

no, but the accusation was there, and these days in the US, that's apparently enough to go ahead and shut down a website by shutting of host resolving tio it. Which I find objectionable and counter to the rule of law, and a very handy mechanism that could be used in future to shut down or shut up anyone who's not chanting "USA, USA!" into the internet 24-7. Now do you get why it's a problem?

[noises]

Not understanding why the internet requires egalitarian access to routing and package transfer resources, and how those requisites are different from end users connection speeds means I'm going to have to dumb things down. Imagine a newspaper store with a counter at the front, even with street frontage, and a counter out the back. Out the front, you sell all the newspapers you and your friend write. Out the back, behind the soft core porn rack and the magazines about patchworking and antiques, you sell all the news everyone else writes. now, how many people do you think will walk into the store and around the back to get the big picture. And how easy does it then become for you and your buddies to say, ommit certain news stories, or stifle certain discussions, when 99% of the customers only get the news your making it easy for them to get?

You're right, you can choose what speed you want to connect at, and how much you want to pay for your connection. That's fine, it only effects your access speed. What's not fine is regulating content service speeds based on websites having so many hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay to get onto the fast (and no doubt privately run) servers. Where do you think this forum will end up on a two speed internet? And how many people will come here then, and how many more won't ever find out it exists, because it's on the slow, non-corporate part of the internet?

Better yet, what if say, the company with the fast internet connection servers was politically inclined to agree with, say, the democrats, and then went and put all the republican websites and news and speeches and event advertising and electoral ads on the slow internet in the leadup to the 2012 elections. Do you see a problem yet?

You missed the big point. The part about the censorship, not only the built in content filters installed by the corporates on their faster networks, but the self censorship such a system would naturally create. Sure sounds like a great way of even further dumbing down the population, by making iTunes and Facebook fast and easy to connect to, and making sites like prisonplanet or Amnesty.org run like they're being served over two paper cups and a length of twine, let alone at dialup speeds. It's all about restricting access to information by using the public's very reasonable demand for good speed on the internet to make them censor themselves.

[life4living]

Noises, you won't appreciate this, and I will probably regret it, but ...

Write a book, mate. I'll buy a copy.

[noises]

I came in here all serious and righteously cranky today, and before I get started, I'm laughing. Thanks for the compliment. The book's in progress, but it's probably not what you'd expect, more a self help book for people who read self help books but haven't realised that even with a book to tell you how, you still have to help yourself. File it under "be the change you want to see in the world, now drop and give me fifty." I'm also collaborating with a hypnotherapist on a project of his as a recording tech and giving him audio engineering lessons, so the book is on hold for the next couple of months while I actually make some money.

Anyway, I popped in to break the news about Manning's visitor being denied visting rights, and himself (and Fire Drake Log journalist Jane Hamsher,) being detained at the gates of quantico for about two hours, after being told they could not leave. What do you suppose this guy might have done, to be barred from seeing his friend today? After all, he's one of the very, very few people who visit manning regularly, he's part of Manning's frail lifeline to sanity and the outside world. So what could he have done to have brought about the wrath of the military all of a sudden? He was on MSNBC yesterday, here's what he was saying. (after end of assange story.)

YouTube - Bradley Manning confidant David House reports on the alleged whistle-blower's confinement

Add to that the fact the journalist had a petition with 42,000 signatures on it to be delivered to the base commander, and it starts to make sense.

Maybe you need 420,000 signatures before the military will listen to civilians. Or 4.2 million. Or something. Maybe they'll just shoot you if you don't do what they say. Who knows anymore.

[noises]

was this REALLY broadcast on.. FOX?

YouTube - "KGB Tactics Being Used On PFC Bradley Manning Are Obscenely Un-American & Unconstitutional!"

[Mad Scientist]

There has been major rioting in Egypt and what was one of the first things their government did? Why a total shut down of their internet. I thought that was supposed to be imposable?

I guess were there is a will there is a way. Obvious we certainly don't what those rioters, who don't like there dictatorial president, to hear anything but the official governmental new releases.

[Aaron]

ham radio operators license

Get a ham radio operators license - the basic technical one at minimum.

Can broadcast and receive to and from internet - email, whatever.

[noises]

There has been major rioting in Egypt and what was one of the first things their government did? Why a total shut down of their internet. I thought that was supposed to be imposable?

I guess were there is a will there is a way. Obvious we certainly don't what those rioters, who don't like there dictatorial president, to hear anything but the official governmental new releases.

I'm in contact with people in Cairo, and can hook you up with Al Jazeera english web stream, they've been getting out live footage of the revolt for the last three days while the media blackout's been in place. If you guys want the breakdown so far and links to sources I'm using, I could start another thread?

Believe me, there's much more info on this story out there than the official line, and it's an amazing story. Muslim, Christian, we're all Egyptian! was one chant cried out by crowds in excess of 50,000. Christian protesters forming human shields to protect muslim protesters from riot police while they pray in the middle of protests. I've even seen footage of christians walk into ranks of praying muslims to pick up teargas canisters and throw them back at the police.

Anyway, it's a long story. I'll start that other thread...