W O R L D W I D E : r E V O L U T I O N

[noises]

And for a bunch of folks to have discovered and expressed that in the middle of a riot... that's just downright heroic.

[life4living]

Exactly Aaron

And @life4living's , they are not peacefully protesting they have had all sorts of crap thrown at them and had to react ,Ash

For goodness sake, Ash. You react to my post but clearly did not read it. I know they had to react - I said that they successfully defended themselves. And I also said in a subsequent post that I totally agree that they, and everyone, should defend when threatened

its simple what i am saying so pay attention, no one said they did not intend peaceful protest, my comment of freedom fighters is far more accurate to how it goes.Ash

I am assuming English is not your primary language. If it is then you really need to learn some manners. It is you who need to pay attention. You are shooting out of your mouth without engaging your brain.

The protesters are protesting PEACEFULLY. Are they attacking anyone without provocation? Are they ripping apart government buildings, or any buildings for that matter?

They defend with violence, yes. But when they are not being attacked they are protesting peacefully. Did you pay attention. It is simple what I am saying ;0)

its logical to call them freedom fighters as they have to fight even to peacefully protest and there is no such thing as a peaceful protest any more. Sorry when was the last one you went to.Ash

The last one I went to? It was with my union last year. I led my members in a strike/protest against a freeze on our wages and an attack on our pensions. Many thousands all over the UK took part. We shouted a lot but it was peaceful in terms of no violence. If the police would have attacked us, I, for one, would have defended us. Any more questions Ashtweth?

Freedom fighters is ACCURATE, as that's whats involved. like it or not, i dont need to prove any thing. Toronto and Egypt are proof of this, wake up get with the times, peaceful protest are now freedom fighters, there is no such thing any more, goto a G20 summit come back and tell me about peace son.Ash

Now you really are starting to irritate me. You sound like a pubescent teenager trying to control his own newly acquired testosterone.

You say "I don't need to prove a thing" - Why are you saying that. Nobody asked you to prove anything. Are you trying to convince yourself young man?

Learn WHY the black bloc started for -Not the modern skewed version. It came out of people wanting to do peaceful protest, but now have to fight for that. I am an activist and i can say Semantics dont count in the street they are freedom fighters. Go protest and come back and learn the term , words do count like you said,.Ash

You know nothing about me and what I've done. I began 'protesting' as a teenager in the UK in the late seventies. I fought against racists and nazis in South London. I also fought against the police. It was all violence. I tell you what though Mr Activist, it didn't solve anything. We still have racists and nazis in the UK.

So what are you 'active' in then? mubarak is an 'activist' - he is active in robbing, killing and suppressing the people of Egypt.

I read your entire Steorn Panacea blah blah thread. Judging by your volatile nature, inability to communicate, and constant threats to instruct the forum moderators (authorities) to remove those who questioned you, I would say you would be an activist of the dictator kind like mubarak.

They are not showing the world how to peacefully protest, they are showing the world what happens to peaceful protest. Ash

I think you are a 'glass half empty' kind of person, Ashtweth. I think, you, for reasons known only to yourself, feel a great need to prove yourself. You have a need, I suggest, for the approval of others. Come back when you have matured a little.

Well, you did say people have the right to defend themselves, Ash.

[life4living]

What he says I agree with too.

There is controversy about him and his motives, but being one of the
accepted leaders in the spiritual/religious community, that statement
"cannot" be ignored.

Same here. I agree with what he says.

But, george dubbya (baby bush) was accepted as pres of the US by millions of people. Didn't mean he was a good pres.

Many people back then admired Hitler including many notable Americans.
Henry Ford admired Hitler and Hitler admired Henry Ford.

You can know a man by the company he keeps, as they say.

But yes, I take your point. I am not completely sold on the idea of the Dalai Lama being some sort of monster. Not in the way that I know Mubarak is a paid puppet of the US Zionist force. Or that Blair was a lackey to Bush. Or, indeed, that our goverments are ruled by a group of people who see most of the human race as mere cattle, in a herd that they want to reduce in size by any means, and to control.

[life4living]

I'm still touched by the Muslim and Christian unity in Egypt.

They are role models for the world and especially for the United States -
being that this is my primary frame of reference since I haven't lived
overseas in a long time.

Absolutely. For me this has been the main element that has me so connected to the revolution in Egypt.

Christian martyrs - Muslim martyrs - NO - People Martyrs.

[ImBill]

By the very fact that we are incarnate on this plane of existence means that we all have some of the very best and the very worst of humanity in us. "Nobody's perfect." "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

[life4living]

Yes, well said Bill.

Not sure what relevance your biblical quote has to this thread though.

Nobody, including me, has professed to be perfect.

Mind you, thinking about it, maybe that quote can be applied to this thread:

Casting stones in attack - pro-mubarak rentamob - hypocrisy/self-interest

Casting stones in defence - anti-mubarak protestors - survival of the innocent/standing up for the greater good.

If we want to get really profound we can say Mubarak and his rent-a-mob psychos had bad upbringings and it's not their fault how they turned out. There but for the grace of god etc etc

Or, we are all capable of dark deeds. I dare say, even you Bill, would kill in certain circumstances. I certainly would. Who knows, in the life circumstances of a Bush, Blair, Dalai or Hitler, maybe I would have taken the same path.

The trouble is the question of predestination comes in, and a host of other unknowable-this-side-of-the-veil concepts.

It's easy to chirp in with a cliche and a quote. But I don't think they really help a discussion along.

[ashtweth]

For goodness sake, Ash. You react to my post but clearly did not read it. I know they had to react - I said that they successfully defended themselves. And I also said in a subsequent post that I totally agree that they, and everyone, should defend when threatened



I am assuming English is not your primary language. If it is then you really need to learn some manners. It is you who need to pay attention. You are shooting out of your mouth without engaging your brain.

The protesters are protesting PEACEFULLY. Are they attacking anyone without provocation? Are they ripping apart government buildings, or any buildings for that matter?

They defend with violence, yes. But when they are not being attacked they are protesting peacefully. Did you pay attention. It is simple what I am saying ;0)



The last one I went to? It was with my union last year. I led my members in a strike/protest against a freeze on our wages and an attack on our pensions. Many thousands all over the UK took part. We shouted a lot but it was peaceful in terms of no violence. If the police would have attacked us, I, for one, would have defended us. Any more questions Ashtweth?




Now you really are starting to irritate me. You sound like a pubescent teenager trying to control his own newly acquired testosterone.

You say "I don't need to prove a thing" - Why are you saying that. Nobody asked you to prove anything. Are you trying to convince yourself young man?



You know nothing about me and what I've done. I began 'protesting' as a teenager in the UK in the late seventies. I fought against racists and nazis in South London. I also fought against the police. It was all violence. I tell you what though Mr Activist, it didn't solve anything. We still have racists and nazis in the UK.

So what are you 'active' in then? mubarak is an 'activist' - he is active in robbing, killing and suppressing the people of Egypt.

I read your entire Steorn Panacea blah blah thread. Judging by your volatile nature, inability to communicate, and constant threats to instruct the forum moderators (authorities) to remove those who questioned you, I would say you would be an activist of the dictator kind like mubarak.



I think you are a 'glass half empty' kind of person, Ashtweth. I think, you, for reasons known only to yourself, feel a great need to prove yourself. You have a need, I suggest, for the approval of others. Come back when you have matured a little.

Well, you did say people have the right to defend themselves, Ash.

They are freedom fighters as they have to fight for their freedom, if you get an impression that this is not a good choice of words, then thats your opinion, The rest of what you said is a waste of time also,extra argumentative this has earned you - i dont have time to answer any of your posts in future .

Ash

[life4living]

i dont have time to answer any of your posts in future .

Ash

[elias]

I see this as valor and courage, which is a form of love when it is combined with forgiveness. That is not for the ego, but for the betterment of society one must stand in front of people who do not respect others. The chakra associated with it is the throat chakra I suppose. They are fighting with there voice of justice. That is the way that will lead them to freedom.

[life4living]

It's good, at last, to have someone in this thread who has an idea of the point I am trying to make (not very successfully ). A good post, Elias.

[elias]

It's good, at last, to have someone in this thread who has an idea of the point I am trying to make (not very successfully ). A good post, Elias.

The media accuses people when they speak out in the streets, of being violent to disprove them. It happens all around the world, it is a standard tactic. Does anyone remember what happened in Iran in 2009? Iran's Disputed Election - The Big Picture - Boston.com

[ImBill]

It's easy to chirp in with a cliche and a quote. But I don't think they really help a discussion along.

My apologies. Perhaps this quote transmitted through a medium from a gentleman known as Lester Coltman while incarnate here whose body was killed during WWI would be more apropos (and/or more to your liking):

"Many to-day deplore the decadence of the world brought about, as they declare, by the conditions consequent on the Great War. This may be true of small matters, but a bigger, finer, and more generous-minded spirit actually animates the whole world-brought about by travail, by bloodshed and by sacrifice, that sacrifice to which only those who went through the terrific epoch-making struggle can adequately testify. Many and glorious were the deeds that I even, in my limited sphere of action, witnessed, enacted in cold blood by natures one might have labelled ordinary, commonplace, even supine. When brought face to face with the gigantic, all that was great in those egos responded gigantically. How little many had suspected wonderful heroism lay beneath those simple, sometimes fatuous, exteriors! These great souls have achieved their apotheosis; they could go no higher! These wonderful sacrifices are bound to have left the earth more sublime. Their memory ever perpetuated in the minds of those still sojourning on earth is bound to strengthen and inspire.

Fallacious are the arguments advanced by ignorant persons in condemning the after-effects of this war. Materially in many ways it was an apparent failure, but spiritually a triumph. The hard-headed man of business will think this an absurd, unpractical way of viewing the dreadful havoc created, but in a small period of time the very unmaterial good will be transmuted into something actual, tangible, and concrete. I am not speaking now as a "vaporistic, etherealized entity" but as a man having a far-sighted vision of the material needs of men on earth. Eventualities will prove the good ensuing has outweighed the evil, though those years were so terrible in the living. Get a nation to think, and you already have it progressing. Sorrow immediately brings meditation. Nations and individuals become torpid, dulled, inactive, if they are content and placid for too long. They never rise above themselves, but keep to the dead-level of mediocrity. They become somewhat like the parson of a remote country village, happy in his bun-fights, his jumble sales and the puerile adulation of admiring womenfolk-an existence that makes for ease and comfort but does not conduce to new aspiration or ambitious effort.

A fight is good if it is to prove the triumph of some virtue, but unfortunately science, which should be used only for the good of man, through the evil egoism of a virulent enemy had to be brought into play to combat him, and so ensued a struggle awful and devastating through the very perfection of that science. This in itself should be a preventive of such another inhuman war-it rests with man to profit by this lesson fraught with terror, pain, and sorrow."

My quote above about throwing the first stone was directed at the Dalai Lama bashing. I guess I should have made that more clear. It is not my intention to derail this thread, but from my (myopic?) point of view, the main message I get from the Dalai Lama's existence is that we have a spiritual component and that at least some of us reincarnate, which I think would benefit mankind if it were a more widely held view and became more of a focal point than greed & power. What he chooses to do while incarnate here will most likely continue to be of little or no consequence to me.

[ashtweth]

I see this as valor and courage, which is a form of love when it is combined with forgiveness. That is not for the ego, but for the betterment of society one must stand in front of people who do not respect others. The chakra associated with it is the throat chakra I suppose. They are fighting with there voice of justice. That is the way that will lead them to freedom.

Hi Elias , Bill and ALL

looks like more violence here
YouTube - Egyptian Government Initiates Violence Against Its People in Tahrir Sq.

[noises]

Re: Al Jazeera online english telecast.

The network's telecast and other content has been available online for more than two years. During the Egyptian crisis, it has seen its online traffic increase by 2,500 percent, with computer users from the United States responsible for half of it.

source
The Associated Press: Egypt takes aim at Al-Jazeera for protest coverage


What? 1,200% increase in the ratings of the Dirty Arab Moongod News from INSIDE the celebrity newsbubble? I need to sit down.

In all seriousness though, it's great that more people are expanding their news gathering networks. Just remember, AlJaz has a bias, just the same as FOX and everyone else. At the end of the day it's just another source. No source is definitive, and all of them have an agenda. Still, it's nice to hear from opposite viewpoints when searching for the middle ground where truths can be found between them.

[life4living]

My apologies. Perhaps this quote transmitted through a medium from a gentleman known as Lester Coltman while incarnate here whose body was killed during WWI would be more apropos (and/or more to your liking):

"Many to-day deplore the decadence of the world brought about, as they declare, by the conditions consequent on the Great War. This may be true of small matters, but a bigger, finer, and more generous-minded spirit actually animates the whole world-brought about by travail, by bloodshed and by sacrifice, that sacrifice to which only those who went through the terrific epoch-making struggle can adequately testify. Many and glorious were the deeds that I even, in my limited sphere of action, witnessed, enacted in cold blood by natures one might have labelled ordinary, commonplace, even supine. When brought face to face with the gigantic, all that was great in those egos responded gigantically. How little many had suspected wonderful heroism lay beneath those simple, sometimes fatuous, exteriors! These great souls have achieved their apotheosis; they could go no higher! These wonderful sacrifices are bound to have left the earth more sublime. Their memory ever perpetuated in the minds of those still sojourning on earth is bound to strengthen and inspire.

Fallacious are the arguments advanced by ignorant persons in condemning the after-effects of this war. Materially in many ways it was an apparent failure, but spiritually a triumph. The hard-headed man of business will think this an absurd, unpractical way of viewing the dreadful havoc created, but in a small period of time the very unmaterial good will be transmuted into something actual, tangible, and concrete. I am not speaking now as a "vaporistic, etherealized entity" but as a man having a far-sighted vision of the material needs of men on earth. Eventualities will prove the good ensuing has outweighed the evil, though those years were so terrible in the living. Get a nation to think, and you already have it progressing. Sorrow immediately brings meditation. Nations and individuals become torpid, dulled, inactive, if they are content and placid for too long. They never rise above themselves, but keep to the dead-level of mediocrity. They become somewhat like the parson of a remote country village, happy in his bun-fights, his jumble sales and the puerile adulation of admiring womenfolk-an existence that makes for ease and comfort but does not conduce to new aspiration or ambitious effort.

A fight is good if it is to prove the triumph of some virtue, but unfortunately science, which should be used only for the good of man, through the evil egoism of a virulent enemy had to be brought into play to combat him, and so ensued a struggle awful and devastating through the very perfection of that science. This in itself should be a preventive of such another inhuman war-it rests with man to profit by this lesson fraught with terror, pain, and sorrow."

My quote above about throwing the first stone was directed at the Dalai Lama bashing. I guess I should have made that more clear. It is not my intention to derail this thread, but from my (myopic?) point of view, the main message I get from the Dalai Lama's existence is that we have a spiritual component and that at least some of us reincarnate, which I think would benefit mankind if it were a more widely held view and became more of a focal point than greed & power. What he chooses to do while incarnate here will most likely continue to be of little or no consequence to me.

Now that is my kind of quote, Bill

I totally agree with "at least some of us reincarnate, which I think would benefit mankind if it were a more widely held view and became more of a focal point "

If people were certain that they would 'reap what they sew' (small quote there) then there's a good chance that all this crap that humanity produces would stop happening.