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  • #76
    Miscalculations....

    The ministry has accumulated 73 mSv miscalculation in the town Namie, Tokyo Shimbun, June 3, 2011:

    Translation by EX-SKF

    - "The Ministry of Education and Science announced on June 3 that the estimated cumulative radiation level from March 12 to May 25 at one location in Namie-machi Fukushima Prefecture, 22 kilometers northwest of Fukushima I Nuke Plant, was 73.9 millisieverts. The Ministry also disclosed the cumulative radiation estimate map of the same period in the area around Fukushima I Nuke Plant.
    Previously, the Ministry of Education and Science announced the cumulative radiation at this particular location up to May 11 was 31.7 millisieverts, but it corrected the number to 61.1 millisieverts. According to the person [unnamed] in charge at the Ministry, “A wrong formula was used in calculation in some parts.” Calculation errors were found for 10 additional locations within Namie-machi, resulting in a vast underestimation of the radiation levels."

    Fukushima Water Has More Radiation Than Released Into Air, Bloomberg, June 2, 2011:

    - "The water level in basements and trenches at Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s Fukushima plant rose and may contain more radiation than is known to have been released into the atmosphere [...]

    Radiation in the water is estimated at 720,000 terabecquerels, general manager Junichi Matsumoto said at a media briefing in Tokyo. [...]

    - “The risk of overflow is as serious as the meltdown of reactor fuel rods that’s already happened,” Tetsuo Ito, the head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University in western Japan, said in a phone interview. “Tepco should’ve acknowledged this risk weeks ago and could’ve taken any urgent measures.”

    Spent Reactor Fuel Risk Greater in U.S. Than Japan, Study Says, New York Times by Matthew L. Wald, May 24, 2011:

    - "The threat of a catastrophic release of radioactive materials from a spent fuel pool at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi plant is dwarfed by the risk posed by such pools in the United States, which are typically filled with far more radioactive material, according to a study released on Tuesday by a nonprofit institute [the Institute for Policy Studies]. [...]

    At one plant that is a near twin of the Fukushima units, Vermont Yankee on the border of Massachusetts and Vermont, the spent fuel in a pool at the solitary reactor there exceeds the inventory in all four of the damaged Fukushima reactors combined, the report notes." [...]

    “The largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet will remain in storage at U.S. reactor sites for the indefinite future” -Robert Alvarez, a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and author of the report."


    V
    'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

    General D.Eisenhower


    http://www.nvtronics.org

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by blackchisel97 View Post
      By Alyangka Francheska | June 3, 2011 10:19 AM EST

      Japan's already reeling economy could be crushed by over-reaction to the Fukushima disaster, warns radiation scientist T.D. Luckey in the summer 2011 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.

      - "Japan should not repeat the mistake that Russia made in the tremendous unwarranted expense of its reaction to Chernobyl. As Mikhail Gorbachev understood too late, "The nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl 20 years ago...was perhaps the real cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union five years later."

      Japan should not act on the false presumption, shared by most of the world's press, that all radiation is harmful, Luckey states. Although high-dose radiation is clearly lethal, and excess doses (>200 mSv over an extremely short time, as from the atomic bomb blasts) can induce cancer, thousands of scientific papers show actual benefits from low doses, including the prevention of cancer and birth defects."

      - "We live with chronic radiation deficiency," Luckey believes. The worldwide background dose of about 3 mSv per year is much less than the optimum dose of around 100 mSv per year; this is 100 times lower than the dose that divides healthful from harmful effects of excess radiation.

      Chronic exposure of around 50 mSv per year for two decades in accidentally contaminated apartments in Taiwan was associated with only 3.5 cancer deaths per 1,000, compared with the 116 per 1,000 "normally" expected.

      Cancer mortality in 7,430 survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki who received between 10 and 19 mSv was significantly lower than that of controls.

      At Fukushima there have been no cases of radiation sickness, and no deaths from radiation exposure. The feared cancer deaths are all theoretical ones, predicted for years in the future. Based on past experience, there will probably be fewer cancer deaths than "normal," Luckey concludes.

      Japan should not imitate Russia in squandering billions of dollars to "protect" people from radiation that is actually beneficial. It should instead base its response on sound scientific data rather than unjustified fear."

      And - AP Exclusive: Czechs see future in uranium - Yahoo! News


      Can I throw up now?


      Vtech
      There was a similar article to this on one of the major news channels some weeks ago and also a top TV personality spouted the same thing even earlier and not long after the reactor explosions.

      This is typical Orwellian doublespeak, its about brainwashing the sheeple. The very fact that this is being repeated and repeated again tells you that it is part of the agenda of coverup. The repetition will continue until it becomes an urban myth, at that point you will be a conspiracy theorist to say radiation is harmful.

      My ex was some kind of radiographer who treated cancer and yes xrays can kill cancer just as easily as it can kill any other tissue in our bodies and this will be used to perpetuate the myth but, it is also a fact that a person who has been treated this way has a short life expectancy in the majority of cases.

      I am shouting here...NO LEVEL OF RADIATION IS GOOD.

      What warms my heart is that many of the people on this forum are awake and the number is increasing.

      We cannot escape the effects of this disaster, anywhere. It is up to us that are informed to educate others about the cancer spike that is sure follow.

      Keep up the good work

      Comment


      • #78
        safety v benefit

        - " International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) today admitted there is no such thing as “safe” levels of radiation. [...]

        CAP vice-president Mohideen Abdul Kader told reporters after meeting the IAEA panel that they had agreed to carry out a cost-benefit analysis before allowing the plant to start operations.

        Mohideen also said that the IAEA’s radiation standards were merely an “international consensus” as studies had not found a safe level of radiation.

        He also cited a study from the National Academy of Science which said that one out of five workers would suffer from cancer if exposed to what the IAEA deemed an allowable radiation level.

        “The panel said there should be sufficient justification for the project,” said Mohideen, “as their standards are not based on what is safe but how great the benefit.”

        Finally they admitted...

        V
        'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

        General D.Eisenhower


        http://www.nvtronics.org

        Comment


        • #79
          Radiation monitoring continues near damaged Japanese nuclear plant, UN reports, UN News Centre, June 2, 2011:

          [...] Nearly three months after the incident, the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant remains “very serious,” Denis Flory, IAEA Deputy Director General and Head of the Department of Nuclear Safety and Security, told a news conference in Vienna, where the Agency is based. [...]

          In its preliminary report, the team of international nuclear safety experts from 12 countries said Japan had underestimated potential tsunami hazards to its nuclear power plants before the March earthquake and tsunami.

          They added that “Japan’s response to the nuclear accident has been exemplary… [and that the country’s] long-term response, including the evacuation of the area around stricken reactors, has been impressive and well organized.” [...]

          There is some more info on Ginko Biloba:

          GINKO BILOBA CAN PROTECT – BEFORE AND AFTER EXPOSURE

          Flavanoids in general have very high protective and curative properties for radiation. It was used successfully with Chernobyl victims. They should be taken just before and after getting a CT or X-Ray.

          Herbal Tonic For Radiotherapy? Gingko Biloba Tree May Protect Cells From Radiation Damage

          MORE ON HOW GINKO BILOBA WORKS


          Get more radiation protection with ginkgo and other natural supplements

          " NaturalNews) Reports on the radiation from Fukushima and on what we can do to protect ourselves are perplexing. Three things are certain: There is radiation leaking and spreading, and it is most dangerous as it seeps into our water and food supplies. And iodine supplements or iodine from kelp can block the iodine isotopes from rushing into our thyroids and disrupting our endocrine systems.

          But the iodine isotope has the shortest half-life of all radioactive particles. Cesium isotopes hang around for thirty years, and strontium and others have even longer half lives. So what else can help reduce or reverse radiation damage?

          Real Life Heavy Radiation Episodes

          Reportedly, the only trees that survived the Hiroshima nuclear blast were ginkgo trees. Not just the trees, but the seeds of the trees. That alone doesn’t warrant using ginkgo to protect humans from radiation. Fast forward to the Chernobyl disaster.

          Various herbal and mineral methods to protect and reverse radiation damage were experimented with. Ginkgo biloba was highly successful, even reversing radiation damage incurred by Chernobyl plant workers.

          Ginkgo in the Lab

          Empirical evidence is hardly acceptable by modern science. So Chang-Mo Kang of the Korea Institute of Radiological and Medical Sciences in Taegu led a research team in an ex-vivo human study of radioactive damage to white blood cells. Ex-vivo means testing outside the organism."

          V
          'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

          General D.Eisenhower


          http://www.nvtronics.org

          Comment


          • #80
            Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think, Chris Martenson, June 3, 2011:

            Arnie Gundersen, nuclear consultant

            - "[N]ow the winds have turned, so they are heading to the south toward Tokyo and now my concern and my advice to friends that if there is a severe aftershock and the Unit 4 building collapses, leave. We are well beyond where any science has ever gone at that point and nuclear fuel lying on the ground and getting hot is not a condition that anyone has ever analyzed. [...]

            [M]ainly cesium and strontium – those are going to head south, whether or not there is a tropical hurricane. The wind is going to push it south this time and so the issue is not the total radiation you might measure with a Geiger counter in your hand, but hot particles." [...]

            Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think - Chris Martenson - Arnie Gundersen, contamination, fission, Fukushima, nuclear, radioactivity

            High levels of radiation found at Japan nuclear plant, DPA, June 4, 2011:

            High levels of radiation were detected at the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in north-eastern Japan, the operator said Saturday.

            Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) said it sent a robot into the building of reactor 1 Friday and detected up to 4,000 millisieverts per hour at the south-east corner of the building. [...]

            The operator also said late Friday two workers at the plant were confirmed to have received cumulative doses of radiation far higher than the official limit.

            TEPCO, which has been criticized for its lax safety management, said more workers might have been exposed to large radiation doses. [...]


            Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think, Chris Martenson, June 3, 2011:

            [...] Now, Unit 3 has another problem and the NRC mentioned it yesterday for the first time and it gets back to that saltwater and the effect on iron. They are afraid that the reactor bottom will break, literally just break right out and dump everything. Because it’s now hot and it’s got salt on it and it’s got the ideal conditions for corrosion. So the big fear on Unit 3 is that it will break at the bottom and whatever else remains in it, which could be the entire core, could fall out suddenly. [...]

            V
            'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

            General D.Eisenhower


            http://www.nvtronics.org

            Comment


            • #81
              Disposal of radioactive debris to go ahead

              - "A panel on nuclear waste disposal has decided to allow municipalities to burn highly radioactive debris if they have incinerators that can remove radioactive substances.

              The panel was set up by the environment ministry. Members of the expert panel made the decision on Sunday.

              The ministry measured radioactive substances on debris inside Fukushima Prefecture at collection posts, excluding areas such as those in a 20-kilometer radius no-entry zone. It had already decided to allow 10 municipalities where radiation levels are relatively low to resume usual methods of disposal, such as burning and burying.

              On Sunday the panel discussed ways to dispose of highly radioactive debris in the areas.

              The participants agreed, in principle, to allow municipalities to burn debris highly contaminated with radioactive substances if their incinerators have filters or electric dust cleaners to remove the substances.

              The environment ministry will inform these municipalities of the decision by the end of June, after checking the capabilities of each facility.

              The panel also agreed that the ministry and the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency should measure the radioactivity of debris inside the 20-kilometer radius no-entry-zone and evacuation zones where monitoring has not been conducted."

              Monday, June 06, 2011 05:13 +0900 (JST)

              NHK WORLD English

              Some good reading here - Fukushima: multiple meltdowns

              V
              'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

              General D.Eisenhower


              http://www.nvtronics.org

              Comment


              • #82
                Another miscalculation...

                Fukushima: Twice As Bad As Thought, Time.com by Eben Harrell Monday, June 6, 2011:

                - "One recurring theme that has emerged after Fukushima is the tendency of nuclear experts to underestimate (publicly at least) the severity of the disaster. Today we received further proof of this when the Japanese government more than doubled the estimate for the amount of radiation released from the plant in the immediate aftermath of the crisis in March.

                - Government watchdog The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency also said that the meltdowns of the plant’s reactor cores–at least one of which we now know suffered a total meltdown—happened much more quickly than Tepco has previously suggested, making it clear that the plant operators’ desperate attempts to cool the reactors by dumping sea water on them were largely unsuccessful.

                - According to news reports, NISA now estimates the total amount of radiation released into the atmosphere in the first week of the crisis at 770,000 terabecquerels. This compares with NISA’s previous estimate, released on April 12, of 370,000 terabecquerels for the first month of the crisis." [...]

                V
                'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                General D.Eisenhower


                http://www.nvtronics.org

                Comment


                • #83
                  3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms

                  I think this CNN report says it all

                  Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.

                  The nuclear group's new evaluation, released Monday, goes further than previous statements in describing the extent of the damage caused by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.

                  The announcement will not change plans for how to stabilize the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the agency said.

                  Reactors 1, 2 and 3 experienced a full meltdown, it said.

                  The plant's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co., admitted last month that nuclear fuel rods in reactors 2 and 3 probably melted during the first week of the nuclear crisis.

                  We 'came close' to losing northern Japan
                  TEPCO admits to more possible meltdowns

                  A "major part" of the fuel rods in reactor No. 2 may have melted and fallen to the bottom of the pressure vessel 101 hours after the earthquake and tsunami that crippled the plant, Tokyo Electric said May 24.

                  The same thing happened within the first 60 hours at reactor No. 3, the company said, in what it called its worst-case scenario analysis, saying the fuel would be sitting at the bottom of the pressure vessel in each reactor building.

                  But Tokyo Electric at the same time released a second possible scenario for reactors 2 and 3, one that estimated a full meltdown did not occur. In that scenario, the company estimated the fuel rods may have broken but may not have completely melted.

                  Temperature data showed the two reactors had cooled substantially in the more than two months since the incident, Tokyo Electric said in May.

                  The earthquake and tsunami knocked out cooling systems at Fukushima Daiichi, causing the three operating reactors to overheat. That compounded a natural disaster by spewing radioactive material into the atmosphere.

                  Tokyo Electric avoided using the term "meltdown," and says it was keeping the remnants of the core cool. But U.S. experts interviewed by CNN after the company's announcement in May said that while it may have been containing the situation, the damage had already been done.

                  "On the basis of what they showed, if there's not fuel left in the core, I don't know what it is other than a complete meltdown," said Gary Was, a University of Michigan nuclear engineering professor and CNN consultant. And given the damage reported at the other units, "It's hard to imagine the scenarios can differ that much for those reactors."

                  A massive hydrogen explosion -- a symptom of the reactor's overheating -- blew the roof off the No. 1 unit the day after the earthquake, and another hydrogen blast ripped apart the No. 3 reactor building two days later. A suspected hydrogen detonation within the No. 2 reactor is believed to have damaged that unit on March 15.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Plutonium found outside Fukushima plant, NHK, June 5, 2011:

                    - "Minute amounts of plutonium have been detected for the first time in soil outside the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

                    Shinzo Kimura of Hokkaido University collected the roadside samples in Okumamachi, some 1.7 kilometers west of the front gate of the power station. They were taken during filming by NHK on April 21st [...]

                    The samples of plutonium-239 and 240 make up a total of 0.078 becquerels per kilogram. [...]

                    [M]ost likely to have come from the plant blasts, as their density ratio is different from those detected in the past [from nuclear bombs]." [...]

                    Gov’t may expand scope of evacuation order in Fukushima, Japan Today, June 7, 2011:

                    -" The government is considering expanding the scope of its evacuation order to include people from certain spots that are emitting high levels of radiation as a result of the nuclear accident at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant in March, government officials said Monday. [...]

                    Top government spokesman Yukio Edano said at a news conference there are certain spots, other than the government-designated evacuation areas, where radiation levels are high depending on atmospheric and other conditions, and the government will boost monitoring at these locations.

                    ‘‘Based on the outcome of (radiation) monitoring, we will consider taking appropriate action,’’ the chief Cabinet secretary told a news conference, hinting at the possible evacuation of these areas".

                    Little late

                    @mbrownn Yes, they are slowly admitting to the facts which were quite obvious couple months ago but either not obvious enough for them or they just didn't want to cause widespread panic. It is all for our own good. Take a deep breath and relax.

                    V
                    'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                    General D.Eisenhower


                    http://www.nvtronics.org

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Take deeper breaths and filter the contamination out with our lungs. That's what they will tell us next.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Parents urge Tokyo to rethink radiation monitoring, Japan Times, June 8, 2011:

                        - "A group of Tokyo parents filed a request Tuesday asking the metropolitan government to change the way it determines radiation levels in the capital after their own study found relatively high levels of contamination around Koto Ward." [...]

                        “This should be taken as a sign that a grave (contamination) is in progress in Tokyo,” Ayako Ishikawa, the leader of the group, said during a news conference.

                        The metropolitan government checks levels of radioactivity at an elevation of 18 meters in Shinjuku Ward, where the maximum hourly reading was about 0.06 microsievert on Tuesday. But Ishikawa insists such readings are unreliable and should be taken at about 1 meter above the ground". [...]

                        [Kobe University professor Tomoya Yamauchi], an expert on radiation physics, said high levels of contamination were detected in soil, especially around a plant in Koto Ward that produces sludge, an ingredient in cement, where the level reached 2,300 becquerels per kilogram [in late May]." [...]

                        Lid of Reactor No. 2′s containment vessel appears to be leaking


                        Japan Concedes Severity of Blast, Wall Street Journal, June 7, 2011:

                        Tokyo’s nuclear regulator revealed an apparent leak in the lid of Reactor No. 2′s containment vessel. That container was a crucial barrier between the overheating nuclear fuel rods at the reactor and the outside world, and the new information suggests radioactive substances were surging through holes that were collectively the size of a business card.

                        V
                        'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                        General D.Eisenhower


                        http://www.nvtronics.org

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          ANOTHER NUKE PLANT: Fukushima Daini has 3,000 tons of radioactive water in reactor bu

                          Fukushima II (Not I) Nuke Plant Wants to Dump 3,000 Tons of Water into the Ocean, EX-SKF, June 7, 2011:

                          Did you even know that there was water in the basement of Fukushima II (“Daini”)? And that water needs to be treated to remove the radioactive materials? [...]

                          From Japan’s TBS News [...]:

                          - " It has been revealed that TEPCO wants to release about 3,000 tons of water in the reactor buildings (and turbine buildings, according to the news clip at the site) of Fukushima II Nuclear Power Plant. However, fearing the negative effect on marine products, the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries is strongly against the plan, making the negotiations between TEPCO and the Ministry difficult. [...]

                          This salt water is estimated to be about 3,000 tons. Since it has been sitting in the basements for long time now, the power supply equipments in the basements may degrade. [...]

                          TEPCO says it will remove the radioactive materials in the water to the level lower than allowed by law before releasing it into the ocean. But the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries is strongly against the plan, fearing the effect on the marine products".

                          And what else you forgot to mention?
                          I have 2 more questions:
                          How did this water ended up there in the first place and how did it get contaminated?
                          If it was used for cooling it means that cooling systems failed. Did something melt it by the way? Tiny bit, perhaps totally harmless?

                          V
                          'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                          General D.Eisenhower


                          http://www.nvtronics.org

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Thousands living outside no-go zone are now packing up and evacuating

                            Heartbreaking evacuations as Fukushima’s nuclear fallout spreads, ABC Australia, June 7, 2011:

                            - "Japan has doubled its estimate of the amount of radiation spewed out by the Fukushima nuclear plant in the week after the crisis began. It comes after confirmation that plutonium has been found outside the facility for the first time.

                            Even before these revelations Japanese authorities were urging residents living just outside the Fukushima no-go zone to leave. Thousands are now packing up and evacuating, fearing radiation in soil and the atmosphere could lead to health problems, especially in children." [...]

                            PM - Heartbreaking evacuations as Fukushima's nuclear fallout spreads 07/06/2011

                            V
                            'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                            General D.Eisenhower


                            http://www.nvtronics.org

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              ‘Melt-through’ at Fukushima? / Govt report to IAEA suggests situation worse than meltdown, Yomiuri Shimbun, June 8, 2011:

                              - "Nuclear fuel in three reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant has possibly melted through pressure vessels and accumulated at the bottom of outer containment vessels, according to a government report obtained Tuesday by The Yomiuri Shimbun.

                              A “melt-through”–when melted nuclear fuel leaks from the bottom of damaged reactor pressure vessels into containment vessels–is far worse than a core meltdown and is the worst possibility in a nuclear accident." [...]

                              Japan’s Tepco hit by power outages at Fukushima-1 nuclear plant, Platts, June 8, 2011:

                              - "Japan’s Tokyo Electric Power Company has been hit by power outages at the No.1 and No.2 reactors at its Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant Wednesday afternoon, resulting in the suspension of nitrogen injection into the No.1 reactor, a company official said. [...]

                              Tepco is still investigating the causes of the power outages and other related incidents at the plant, the official added."

                              Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

                              V
                              'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                              General D.Eisenhower


                              http://www.nvtronics.org

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Omaha Nuclear Plant trouble

                                This isn't Fukushima but related nature so I decided to post in this thread -

                                Electrical Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuclear Plant, Scientific American, June 9, 2011:


                                A fire in an electrical switch room on Tuesday briefly knocked out cooling for a pool holding spent nuclear fuel at the Fort Calhoun nuclear plant outside Omaha, Neb., plant officials said. [...]

                                If the cooling water a pool is lost, the used nuclear fuel could catch fire and release radiation. [...]

                                The fire, reported at 9:30 a.m., led to the loss of electrical power for the system that circulates cooling water through the spent fuel pool, according to a report from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. A chemical fire suppression system discharged, and the plant’s fire brigade cleared smoke from the room and reported that the fire was out at 10:20 a.m., the NRC said. [...]

                                The plant had already been operating under a heightened level of alert because of nearby flooding on the Missouri River, the NRC said. The cause of the fire remained under investigation this morning.

                                Nuclear Energy is clean and totally safe ....unless something goes wrong.

                                V
                                'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

                                General D.Eisenhower


                                http://www.nvtronics.org

                                Comment

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