Occupy Wall Street

[Nadda]

Thats exactly right Mad scientist. For example, if my brother beats me up i dont go back to him and protest about it. I go to our father and protest about it. Wall street deserves blame without a doubt, but as long as congress keeps deficient regulations and allows them to implement bad business practices then bails them out when they're feet hit the fire...wall street will never change. There is and has been serious lack of oversight by our government. Hell the SEC couldnt even figure out that Madoff had an 18billion dollar ponzi scheme running. Billion with a B. Its unbelievable.

[mbrownn]

Lets look at what this movement is doing: It is raising awareness for these issues. That is a good thing; unless you really are a 1% 'er.

We constantly hear fears of control and takeover of the movement. So far there are zero signs of it. It is OUTSIDE of the right/left paradigm. It is unique, and it is surprising to me, how many people see a "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow"... and then reject it because the pot is the wrong shape

Meaning that many folks who have been calling for something like this for years, are against when it finally arrives because it does not follow exactly the dogma they "like". Maybe in the case of some "radio personalities"... this has something to do with narcissism, jealousy, and self interest?

Maybe the OCCUPY WALL STREET movement should sell gold and silver certificates; and then some will support it

The movement is being co-opted as we speak by the union shills, Michael Moore, Unilever and many oligarchical groups. Keep your eye on the ball, I have seen many so called leaders asking for more taxes and obamacare at OWS, do you think that is what we need in our situation?

Remember if the bailout was paid to the people and not the banksters there would be a massive boom and not a depression.

They are proposing increasing taxes and cutting benefits claiming sustainability The size of this fraud is 1.5 quadrillion (1,500,000,000,000,000 USD) If that is divided by the population of the planet at 7 billion (7,000,000,000) that is almost 215,000USD for every man woman and child on the planet . If this bailout had been paid to the people what do you think would have happened?

No brainer really

[Joit]

If this bailout had been paid to the people what do you think would have happened?

For sure not, what they actually want to let happen.


More Streams at on Page on
OccupyStream - All Occupy Wall Street Streams and IRC - Live Revolution

[jibbguy]

Nobody is co-opting the movement.

So what if these people you hate so much support it? They are not leading it, i assure you. You can see who is leading it, by watching the livestreams of the General Assy. THEY ALL ARE, TOGETHER. And these liberal-hater's boogey-men are not there.

No leaders to get attacked, smeared and scandalized, or coerced.... not a bad idea, huh?

It is a TRUE grass roots spontaneous movement, and cannot be co-opted because of that.

Please think for yourselves regarding this, and QUESTION why these radio personalities told you to hate it.

No one is demanding you support all the things the others in the movement support. The people there don't all agree either. You find it is made up of people from all over the spectrum... and it isn't what you have been told.

Folks are certainly welcome to disagree with it and not support it. But really now, if you don't.... why do so many feel it is a personal affront to them? It is not... unless you are one of the 1% yourself. Instead of going out of your way to spread LIES about it without bothering to check them for yourself... you could instead just get out of the way and wish it well.

Wow now that's a "radical" idea, huh?

[Joit]

Impressive Speek not OWS Related but well spoken.
In rousing speech, 15 year old student warns UK ruling class: “We will fight back!” « Citizen Action Monitor

[mbrownn]

Nobody is co-opting the movement.

So what if these people you hate so much support it? They are not leading it, i assure you. You can see who is leading it, by watching the livestreams of the General Assy. THEY ALL ARE, TOGETHER. And these liberal-hater's boogey-men are not there.

No leaders to get attacked, smeared and scandalized, or coerced.... not a bad idea, huh?

It is a TRUE grass roots spontaneous movement, and cannot be co-opted because of that.

Please think for yourselves regarding this, and QUESTION why these radio personalities told you to hate it.

No one is demanding you support all the things the others in the movement support. The people there don't all agree either. You find it is made up of people from all over the spectrum... and it isn't what you have been told.

Folks are certainly welcome to disagree with it and not support it. But really now, if you don't.... why do so many feel it is a personal affront to them? It is not... unless you are one of the 1% yourself. Instead of going out of your way to spread LIES about it without bothering to check them for yourself... you could instead just get out of the way and wish it well.

Wow now that's a "radical" idea, huh?

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with other parts, let me explain.

Any movement that gains traction will have the power hungry try to co-opt it for their own benefits. OWS IS a grass roots leaderless movement and this is what makes it strong but also vulnerable. Because the views and goals are very diverse it is difficult for it to show a clear objective and you will always get someone that disagrees with another.

To co-opt this movement several tactics are being deployed right as we speak. Firstly the media, they go out into the crowd and start asking questions, trying to find people with controversial views be it racism aliens or anything that could be viewed in a negative light and these are the people who they interview and is presented as a consensus. It is claimed that the reason they do this is it sells news but as you know these things whilst they are present are on the fringe. The real reason it is done is so that the people who are yet unaware of the movement will dismiss it as crazy, racist or simply a waste of time and the movement is discredited. You must have seen some of this on the TV. Next you get personalities or politicians turn up some of which are genuine and some are not, again through media coverage you find certain views get given more airtime and credibility than others noticeably views asking for socialism and austerity measures. The next step is what I call the bandwagon numerous exiting groups and also newly formed groups start making statements with their own agenda claiming to be a part of the grassroots. These groups if they spout things that are part of the globalist agenda in a positive light, again are given more airtime. before long these spokespeople get to be called representative and even leaders of the movement. If this method of co-opting fails then the agent provocateurs move in and that then gets huge coverage.

Don't deny it is happening, it is.

The next thing I could see was a brainwashing technique, a "leader" making a speech line by line getting the crowd to repeat it in unison, this has sprung up in many places and it is interesting to note that amongst the just and majority views expressed, again the globalist agenda items pop up.

As you can see these tactics amount to truth being misdirected by misinformation, disinformation and propaganda.

I am as much socialist as capitalist so when I see more weight given to one side than the other, I ask why and what is on the agenda of the other side. I believe the well off should assist the less well off where needed and that the true generation of wealth is by letting the people keep what they earn. I also believe that capitalism does generate wealth and jobs. I also find socialism to the extent that it harms the wealth generators counter productive but capitalism to the extent where people do not care about others is just as bad. The biggest danger is where socialist and capitalist ideas are used in monopolistic ways for the benefit of the few and this last one is the system we all live under.

I think OWS is great but I am afraid that these monopoly men through financing the media and socialist groups are going to take over the movement. If I lived in America I would be camped outside the FED myself.

I wish to see the goals of the ordinary people succeed and these people have my support as do the ones in Europe.

To give you an Idea of where I am coming from, I live in SE Asia on 3USD per day. There is no socialism to speak of here although I think it needs some and without capitalism, many would starve to death. This is my choice because I did not want to live in England anymore so its not a plea for sympathy either. In this environment it is easier to see what is happening in the developed world as I am not emotionally invested in it anymore, but what I do see is that the developed world is being destroyed by the few for the benefit of themselves.

It is good to see the world awakening

[mbrownn]

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City


NYC General Assembly
October 14, 2011

from the Official Website of the GA at #OccupyWallStreet

we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

[Mad Scientist]

OK the Wall Street protesters are running around telling us that Wall Street is evil, that’s fine but just who is controlling Wall Street? Many of the protesters are carrying “end the FED” signs. This gets us a little closer to those running the show but even that is still a faceless entity. I think the protesters could be more effective if they but names on the faces of these elites and bankers. As this is the last thing these individuals want is to be cast out in the limelight. They do their “best” work while hiding under rocks and letting politicians and others take blame when things go wrong.

So how about some signs like these:

“ROTHSCHILDS SHOULD BE IN JAIL”
“CARNEGIES ARE CRIMINALS”
“KISSINGER IS A GENOCIDAL WAR CRIMINAL”
“ROCKEFELLER WANTS 90% DEPOPULATION”
“GREENSPAN ENGINEERED ECONOMIC MELTDOWN”
“ASTORS ARE BANKER THEIVES”
“SCHIFFS ARE BANKER CRIMINALS”,
“QUEEN ELIZABETH & PRINCE CHARLES ARE DEPOPULATIONISTS”,
“KRUPPS ARE KILLERS”

Of course there is a long list of others that could also be mentioned:
The Bush’s, the Clinton’s, Cheney’s, DuPont’s’, Lehman’s, Morgan’s’, Rumsfeld’s, Vanderbilt’s, Warburg’s, etc.

Yet if they can keep us working to try fixing all the problems they have created then we will not look to them as the source of these problems. [When one is in a swamp and is surrounded by alligators it is hard to think of draining the swamp as a solution.]

[jibbguy]

I think some are missing the point. You are NOT going to get indictments against someone for "Depopulation"... ok?

But you CAN get indictments against officers of the Fed for giving taxpayer bailout money to foreign banks not even in trouble.. OR General Electic, OR

McDonalds.


You CAN get the CEO's of BoA, Chase, Citibank, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan RICO Act Racketeering, stock fraud and commoditied market manipulations, and for being criminal asshats that trashed the economy while profiting personally.

And for the above mentioned banks for using bailout money supposed to stimulate the economy and stop job losses and house foreclosures on a mass scale... to instead buy Treasury Bonds that the taxpayers have to AGAIN pay interest on, and do absolutely NOTHING to stimulate the economy, AGAIN, because it profited them to do so.

Why are you people so against these prosecutions? Huh?

[mbrownn]

Once we start bringing down their system we will get whistle blowers and be able to get the proof to bring down the perpetrators for their crimes

[Mad Scientist]

Of course these prosecutions should go forward, but for that to occur a portion of the sheeple need to be awakened to the idea that we have a real problem here and that they also need to demand that we have real change. But talking about stock fraud and market manipulations will only but the average sheeple to sleep. Talking about multi-trillions of dollars being miss-spend is on a scale where this amount cannot be visualized and comprehended by someone making $10 or $15 an hour.

However if you tell the sheeple that the elite poisoning their air, water and food and that they want to get eliminate 3 out of every 4 of them well these are numbers they can hopefully relate to. Thus once you have their attention you how can point out that these so called elite are nothing but thieves, criminals and killers and need to be prosecuted. When a significant number have been awakened change will be forced to occur. Typically only a small portion of the population needs to awakened and then the majority will follow along.

[Joit]

Wall Street rejects Dem fundraising - UPI.com

NEW YORK, Oct. 18 (UPI) -- Wall Street lobbyists are telling Democrats they can't have it both ways: They can't support Occupy Wall Street protests and then ask for Wall Street cash.

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee sent a recent e-mail calling on supporters to sign a petition backing the protests. Then livid banking executives called DCCC officials demanding answers, financial services lobbyists told Politico.

"Most Wall Street guys, they feel like they're going to be burned in effigy," Anthony Scaramucci told the newspaper. Scaramucci is a managing partner of SkyBridge Capital who gave to the Obama campaign in 2008. Now he is fundraising for Mitt Romney, and told Politico other moderate donors "fled from [President] Obama in his support of the Wall Street protests."

[jibbguy]

Here is an interesting article by a progressive editor, of the president of the Trenton, NJ Tea Party... who strongly supports OWS.

OpEdNews - Article: Interview With a Tea Party Leader Who Supports Occupy Wall Street Movement

Lots to think about there, for us all i guess.

Imagine, mainstream supposedly "Liberal" pols like Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, and others being turned away and rejected by OWS as being part of the problem. Of Tea Party folks going back or sticking with their grass roots beginnings, and doing the same to so-called Conservative pols who court them with tame rhetoric, but no actual substance (...exactly as the liberal pols do to Progressives).

THERE IS MUCH TO AGREE ON HERE. And this is the most "radical", and "dangerous" idea yet... rejecting the constantly-reinforced polarity and division that has been a part of American politics for 40 years now... and that has resulted in the worst governance we have seen yet, and that allowed corruption to thrive.

[Joit]

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world - physics-math - 19 October 2011 - New Scientist

AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.

The study's assumptions have attracted some criticism, but complex systems analysts contacted by New Scientist say it is a unique effort to untangle control in the global economy. Pushing the analysis further, they say, could help to identify ways of making global capitalism more stable.

The idea that a few bankers control a large chunk of the global economy might not seem like news to New York's Occupy Wall Street movement and protesters elsewhere (see photo). But the study, by a trio of complex systems theorists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, is the first to go beyond ideology to empirically identify such a network of power. It combines the mathematics long used to model natural systems with comprehensive corporate data to map ownership among the world's transnational corporations (TNCs).

"Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it's conspiracy theories or free-market," says James Glattfelder. "Our analysis is reality-based."

Previous studies have found that a few TNCs own large chunks of the world's economy, but they included only a limited number of companies and omitted indirect ownerships, so could not say how this affected the global economy - whether it made it more or less stable, for instance.

The Zurich team can. From Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors worldwide, they pulled out all 43,060 TNCs and the share ownerships linking them. Then they constructed a model of which companies controlled others through shareholding networks, coupled with each company's operating revenues, to map the structure of economic power.

The work, to be published in PloS One, revealed a core of 1318 companies with interlocking ownerships (see image). Each of the 1318 had ties to two or more other companies, and on average they were connected to 20. What's more, although they represented 20 per cent of global operating revenues, the 1318 appeared to collectively own through their shares the majority of the world's large blue chip and manufacturing firms - the "real" economy - representing a further 60 per cent of global revenues.

When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.

John Driffill of the University of London, a macroeconomics expert, says the value of the analysis is not just to see if a small number of people controls the global economy, but rather its insights into economic stability.

Concentration of power is not good or bad in itself, says the Zurich team, but the core's tight interconnections could be. As the world learned in 2008, such networks are unstable. "If one [company] suffers distress," says Glattfelder, "this propagates."

"It's disconcerting to see how connected things really are," agrees George Sugihara of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, a complex systems expert who has advised Deutsche Bank.

http://www.theyrule.net/

[Nadda]

Nice study.

Concentration of power is not good or bad in itself

I disagree, i think concentration of power Is a bad thing. No single man or corporation should ever have too much power. Which is why we have three branches of government, to balance power. Being too big to fail is the exact problem, if any corporation is too big to fail then they have already amassed too much power, because now apparently they must succeed at whatever price we have to pay. The best way to send a message to a corporation and teach them a lesson about not becomming to big to fail is....to let them fail.
No regulations needed, allow capitalism to work as it is intended. How will any of them learn a lesson when they are not held accountable and instead are bailed out.