Colloidal silver generator , different approach

[grizli]

WE all know for basic generator: battery and silver wires .

Distilled water must be used, and its good that current is kept constant .

I wonder if is there better way for making more tiny particles ? Pure distilled water has very high resistance , and current is low , so it can take higher voltages..

What about NOT using direct current, what about using tiny(low duty cycle) DC pulses of higher voltage , maybe even some ferrite core and reversed diode (just from back emf)

Has anyone tried that method and has it affected particle size ? How can I know the size of particle ? Can color of colloidal silver solution tell us about size of particles?

So in your opinios whats the best for most tiny silver particles : pure DC and controlled current, DC pulsed with low duty cycles higher voltage (ferrite core back emf) or maybe AC current ?

What about plasma , plasma spark gap between silver wires inside water ?

[wantfreeenergy]

I don't know how to get smaller particles but thought this could be of some help. If you go to Alternative Medicine Forums, Blogs & FAQs on CureZone.com and then to the colloidal silver thread/forum on the left of the site. Then do a search while in that cs forum for hydrogen peroxide. You'll get lots of results.

Basically from what I've read is that you can make cs that is yellow or even a darker yellow. Then you put in some "food grade" hydrogen peroxide which will cause the cs to go clear. What is happening is as cs goes from a clear to darker color while you are making it is the particles are beginning to clump together. When the particles clump together to make a larger particle the cs begins to change color. It goes from clear to pale yellow to dark yellow to a reddish color and then it clumps into a dark chalky grayish color.

But what I've read over on curezone in the cs forum is that they will make a dark yellow batch and then add a little amount of food grade hydrogen peroxide which will cause the cs to go clear. So what's happening is they make a batch with a high ppm count, but it's pretty much pointless to drink cus the particles are too big from clumping together. To make it effective they add the h2o2 to make all the particles come apart and create a batch with high ppm count and small particle size.

So summed up a dark yellow batch has a high ppm count but the particles are also large and IMO unsafe to ingest on a regular basis. Not to mention the small particle size is what is effective becase it has the ability to pass through all the membranes in your body. They take the high ppm count batch with large particles and add h202 to cause the clumps to seperate so that there is a batch with high ppm count and small particles.

Food grade h202 I've read is typically found on the internet. It's 35% grade h2o2.

If you do a search on curezone you'll find lots of info on it. I've yet to order me any 35% h2o2 either but me typing this has caused me to think about ordering some this morning.

[grizli]

I don't know how to get smaller particles but thought this could be of some help. If you go to [url=http://www.curezone.com]A......
If you do a search on curezone you'll find lots of info on it. I've yet to order me any 35% h2o2 either but me typing this has caused me to think about ordering some this morning.

Would not H2o2 make ionic silver ?

there is free oxigen atom and would make Silver-oxide ? silver oxide is NOT colloidal silver ? hmm

[Aaron]

ac makes it smaller

The smallest particle size for silver has been done with AC.

[grizli]

The smallest particle size for silver has been done with AC.

How ?

tell me what frequency waveform and voltage using distilled water
current ?

have you tried ?

[wantfreeenergy]

Would not H2o2 make ionic silver ?

there is free oxigen atom and would make Silver-oxide ? silver oxide is NOT colloidal silver ? hmm

Yeah I really don't know much about it. I've yet to fully delve deep into it. I've just read about people doing it on curezone.

Also I propably didn't clarify this. Don't use h2o2 to make or while making the cs. You only add the h2o2 AFTER you have FINISHED making the batch of cs. You NEVER add anything to the straight distilled water while you are making the batch of cs. Always and only use distilled water. If one were to use any other liquid or add something to the distilled water then it will create an electro-chemical reaction and the batch made will be more than just cs. Which could be harmful. I always rinse my glass jar out with distilled water even to get out the tap water residue.

But as far as it causing a chemical reaction from adding h2o2 after you have a made batch of cs I really don't know. I suggest not just to take my word for it but to do some research. One could always have it tested too. I think I've read somewhere it would cost like around 20 smacks to have it tested, but I would have to find where it said that, and it would take me a little while. There are other uses for 35% h2o2 too, but it's powerful stuff and that's why it can't be purchased from the store down the road. So learn about it if one plans on ordering some.

[wantfreeenergy]

I just tried to edit my post just now, but it may not allow me to after so many minutes? Anyhow if there is a double post of this then you'll know why.

This is actually what I've read on it a while back. Conclusion on CS + H2O2? at Colloidal Silver Forum I thought I read a couple of others too but I didn't spend too much time searching. I was trying to find an ac circuit link over there, cus I thought I had seen em in the past but I couldn't find one real quick. I also noticed in the linked article from the link I posted mentioned something about atomizing and ionizing. That article also did mention that by adding a few drops of h2o2 to a finished batch of cs it caused it to be more effective at killing bacteria.

[Aaron]

ac silver solution

How ?

tell me what frequency waveform and voltage using distilled water
current ?

have you tried ?

Hi Grizli,

I have not made silver solution with AC myself.

It is an AC process and all the small particle solution is kept
while the bigger particle solution is thrown out unused.

If you search online, you'll see references to AC methods
to produce it.

I had the details explained to me 6 years ago or so and don't
know where those notes are. It was more convenient for me
to buy it from people I knew that made the smallest.

[grizli]

Hi Grizli,

I have not made silver solution with AC myself.

It is an AC process and all the small particle solution is kept
while the bigger particle solution is thrown out unused.

If you search online, you'll see references to AC methods
to produce it.

I had the details explained to me 6 years ago or so and don't
know where those notes are. It was more convenient for me
to buy it from people I knew that made the smallest.

I really dont see how can you separate small and big particle solution
in solution both small and big particle appear hmm

p.s i cant find better than 99,9% silver here, maybe its good enough, i Hope there is no Pb or Hg inside 0,1 % ?

[CosmicFarmer]

From my understanding the best way to get smallest particles is
Vigorous constant stirring
Low voltages
Clean electrodes
Pure distilled water

I was unaware there was a next step to break up the clumps. My batches "cook" for a whole day and they never get anywhere near a color.

IMHO the best way and easiest way to make CS is to make a magnetic stirrer with a DC fan from TheShack. Have a couple of ceramic magnets on the fan itself, and throw a Snake Egg style magnet in the glass cup you use to make the CS. The snake egg is round and long and perfect for not breaking your glass. Once you get a nice vortex going on, I use a single 9volt through long electrodes that I bent back up to cradle the vortex. The electricity has to go around the vortex to reach the other wire, but I think this is merely design and might not help much... yet i find the highest stirring action is right there next to the tornado. The clumping occurs because of not enough stirring or too much electricity.

The process is non linear so you can start it up with a small splash of the last batch still in there to help speed up the beginning, but I found you can only leave it alone for 5 hours or so in the beginning, while after that every other hour it seems to need a good scrape with the steel wool. Obviously you cant set this up and go to work and expect a nice batch when you get home. All my batches are crystal clear and have a gentle foggy haze tyndall effect. Some times I need to use a coffee filter to remove visible chunks that fell from the electrodes, but those can be eliminated with regular cleanings.

AC. If you look at the Electrotherapy Museum The Turn Of The Century Electrotherapy Museum Tesla Library the first picture on this page The Turn Of The Century Electrotherapy Museum Tesla Library shows what looks like a tree. This tree is the separated negative and positive pulse. One went up and one went down... I still get em backwards I think the positive pulse is the fuzzy root like ones while the negative pulse is the treelike branches. So by understanding that negative and positive are 2 different animals, having them both work for you as Aaron said could get you better PPM.


Now, on the topic of radiant vs conventional, I would imagine that radiant inductive collapse might be softer on the electrodes allowing for smaller particle sizes, while at the same time I could imagine the higher voltages ripping off larger chunks of silver at a time. Correct me if I am wrong but I think I remember Amigo saying he couldn't find a difference...

So in conclusion I would say the magic lays in low voltages and high stirring speeds. Having clean electrodes also helps greatly. Using low voltages you will have to let it brew for alot longer then usual, but the quality will be better. one 4.5ah 12v battery can hold a fan load long enough for it to finish. I usually have one spinning the water and one charging.

[grizli]

So in conclusion I would say the magic lays in low voltages and high stirring speeds. Having clean electrodes also helps greatly. Using low voltages you will have to let it brew for alot longer then usual, but the quality will be better. one 4.5ah 12v battery can hold a fan load long enough for it to finish. I usually have one spinning the water and one charging.

Why is voltage so closely related to particle size ?


Some calculators says that for 1 hour 0,2 liter of water 0,5 mA current should give about 10 ppm ?!?!
could this be true ? How can I know if I made good colloid silver or I made just "plain water" he he
is laser only way to detect colloids ? but lower coloilds particle laser effect is less visible ? hmm

see this , they claim its not possible to produce more than 20 ppm silver

http://silversol.net63.net/theory/goodcs.htm
http://silversol.net63.net/theory/cstheory.htm

Process must be stopped , at precise time ,
water MUST NOT be stirred, polarity of electrodes must not be changed

WEdo not want ArOH?

This is first time i have heared this different approach , what you think about it ?

I will quote from links above :


Region 1 is the Initial Region where any silver hydroxide on the cathode is converted back to silver metal as described in the theory section. Also, trace contaminants that were left over from the distillation process are swept from the region surrounding the electrodes. This means few ions are entering the solution, so the conductance increases slowly at first, then faster as the initial process goes to completion.

Region 2 is the Faraday Region, where the conductance is increasing the fastest. Silver ions are leaving the anode and hydroxyl ions are leaving the cathode, but they have not reached the opposite electrodes to start combining and form silver hydroxide. (For more information, please see "Making Ions Visible", Part I and Part II)

Region 3 is the Nernst Region. The ions have reached the opposite electrodes, and are starting to combine in a very thin layer next to the electrode called the Nernst Diffusion layer. Since ions are now being lost in making silver hydroxide, the change in conductance slows down.
NoAlt

AgOH Mist
(From Utopia Silver)

Region 4 is the Tyndall Region. The conductance has peaked, and more ions are being converted to silver hydroxide than are being released from the electrodes. This reduces the conductance, so the curve flattens or turns downward. If we shine a laser pointer through the solution, we start to see the Tyndall as the silver hydroxide particles scatter the light.

But the goal is still the same - to keep the process in the Faraday Region (#2) as long as possible, and find the optimum point to terminate the brew despite the normal variations in the process.

[gmeast]

colloidal silver even differenter - ha ha !

Hi all,

I've been combing the internet for "facts" about Colloidal Silver. 20 years ago I did the same thing but ... no internet other than what I used (university-government ... how the internet started anyway). It was confusing then, so I thought, because of the myriad opinions, views, corroberated / uncorroberated. Well it's worse now. I am better at electronics now so I thought I'd mess with this topic. I hope I can figure it out by the time I might actually 'need' the benefits so many have been talking / posting about.

My current (no pun) dilemma (delemna) is ... DC or AC, or how about polarity switching DC ... isn't that kinda' like AC?

Then, what about Silver 'Meallic' Particles vs Silver +Ions (still particles) vs Silver Hydroxide vs Silver Oxide vs what's better ... Yellow, Clear, etc. Then there's the qualified and unqualified statements regarding Color vs Particle size and Diffraction, Refraction, Reflection. Is it 'small to big' = Clear, Yellow, Red, Green, Blue. If the particle is smaller than the shortest wavelength then it won't absorb or reflect ... so the solution COULD BE clear and have TONS of Metallic Silver Particles in it on only be clear, but a 'Dark Clear' because there would be a 'blocking' effect from the particles, and, and, and it would not necessarily be electrically conductive like an Ionic solution ! ... SEEE easy confusion ... yes, no, what?

I built a Bob Beck Electrifier and soon became aware of the need to control current. So I built a real neat in-line active device that regulates the current. It is adjustable so that you can achieve 1mA / sq-in of anode area, which is what I have found in the literature to be a good current loading ... and that value was hard to find ... or I'm just not that lucky when I'm digging for info'. current thingies = I'm going to build 'em and sell 'em ... want some?

HVAC vs LVDC. Well I've been messing with LVAC with my Beck. I have made some nice Clear solution that has conductivity (it's ionic) and displays the right 'weakness' of Tyndall Effect which tells me I have Metallic Silver Particles that are present in a good abundance but are very, very tiny. I did this with 54VAC @ 4Hz, and the way the Beck circuit works is, by default, an AC Sq Wave with 'ground' at '0' because the batteries are 3 X 9 = 27VC but the out put is 54V P-P with no inductor ... blah, blah, blah.

Here's a picture of very tiny hydrogen bubbles on Both Silver Anode/Electrodes. The silver has much, much, much, much more luster than in the pic ... these cheap digital camera, etc. The pic below is a low resolution pic. The high resolution pic is at http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/plasma...es_silver1.jpg on the same site/folder. The one below is ".../bubbles_silver1s.jpg" ... "s" for "small". There are also some low q videos on my YouTube channel about my dabbling with this.

Notice in the high res pic, the silver probe, as seen on the right, zoom in to the front, right corner and the probe/water interface, you can see streamers emanating from the corner, either Silver Hydroxide, Silver +Ions, Silver Particles (probably not metallic particles). If it's SiOH then it will turn into a metallic silver 'slick' and stay on the surface ... I think.

...the Silver is much more "silvery" than appears here.


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Does this stuff work? I DO KNOW THIS, all my life I've done battle with pesky canker sores that start on my tongue and get transferred to the inside of my cheek, and then here, there, etc. This goes on for 2 to 3 weeks ... what a nuisance !! When it happened again, I took some of the stuff I made and swished it around in my mouth for a couple of minutes 4 - 5 times a day (when I'd think about it). Almost immediately the pain was less. The mouth's incredible healing power kicked in and in less than 3 days ALL GONE ... NOTHING!

Well, there it is. Thanks,

Greg

[shawn]

I read a long time ago when I built a battery powered model, that one needs to start with high voltage (due to the resistance of the pure water) and as the silver transfers to the water the resistance drops and one needs to drop the voltage accordingly.
Obviously there needs to be specific current supplied in order to get the small particles to form, otherwise the exercise is futile and potentially harmful (you can turn grey...permanently, if you consume too much low-grade CS).
If anyone has any info on this it would be appreciated if they would share it.

[sucahyo]

I read a long time ago when I built a battery powered model, that one needs to start with high voltage (due to the resistance of the pure water) and as the silver transfers to the water the resistance drops and one needs to drop the voltage accordingly.

Radiant oscillator will do that. The circuit will produce stable output power. When the resistance is high the voltage will be high, when the resistance is low, the voltage will be low, but the current will increase.

[shawn]

I found this:

Many companies sell colloidal silver generators and dozens of web sites provide information for experimenters and home hobbyists.
All the machines sold for making colloidal silver use an electrolysis process and make ionic silver.
There are no machines sold that are capable of making true colloidal silver
What Is Ionic Silver?

Technically speaking, a silver ion is an atom of silver that is missing one electron. The outermost electrons of an atom determine the physical properties of the matter. Take away one electron from a silver atom and you get a silver ion. Ionic silver is not the same as metallic silver, silver particles or colloidal silver.

The Difference Between Colloidal Silver And Ionic Silver

Colloidal silver is made up of tiny nanoparticles of metallic silver. The particles are complete and do not combine with other elements. In its ionic form, silver is highly reactive with other elements, and will readily combine to form compounds. Inside the human body chloride is the most prevalent anion. Silver ions will immediately combine with chloride to form an insoluble compound of silver chloride.
The difference between silver ions and silver particles boils down to the fact that silver ions combine with chloride ions to form silver chloride and silver particles do not.

This simple fact should be kept in mind when reading claims that silver ions are particles. If a silver ion were a particle, it would not combine with chloride. For a more technical discussion about the differences between ions and particles, see Ions, Atoms and Charged Particles.

Why Is This Important?

Silver chloride is a compound that is formed when silver ions combine with chloride ions. It is an insoluble compound which means once it is formed in the human body, it does not dissolve. Silver ions and chloride ions have such a strong attraction for each other that it is virtually impossible to keep them apart. Once they find each other, they form the silver chloride compound. All ionic silver will turn into silver chloride once inside the body because of the readily available supply of chloride ions in many different forms.

Silver chloride is an insoluble salt that does not dissolve inside the body once it has formed. Silver chloride is eliminated by the kidneys and expelled through the urine. The authors believe that only the portion of silver content contained in the particles will remain effective in the body.

Typical ionic silver products contain between 3 and 20 ppm of ionic silver which would not cause argyria.

Ingestion of highly concentrated forms of ionic silver (100 ppm and above) may cause argyria, a permanent discoloration of the skin.
.From here:Silver Colloids: Frequently Asked Questions

This is rather a discouraging find.
It seems that ionic silver particles are somewhat effective for bacteria and other large pathogens, but the particle size is too large to do anything about virus's.
So the trick then is to determine what precisely is the method for making a true colloid of silver which has a consistent particle size of less that 100 nanometers (preferably less than 10 nm) and no simple electrolysis method seems up to the task.

Bioavailability of Ionic Silver

Promotional claims made for ionic silver products describe it as having high bioavailability. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The Merck Manual makes it clear that bioavailability is the amount of unchanged drug that reaches the systemic circulation. To be bioavailable the substance being ingested must attain systemic circulation unchanged in form. Because silver ions are highly reactive they quickly form compounds in the body and therefore cannot remain unchanged. While it is the highly reactive nature of silver ions that provides its antimicrobial properties, it also causes the rapid formation of compounds and prevents the continued existence of silver ions inside the human body. Because silver ions cannot exist inside the human body the bioavailability is virtually nonexistent. Silver compounds such as silver chloride in the blood stream provide no meaningful antimicrobial properties.