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**Aaron** · 10-30-2007, 07:15 AM

feelings and choice/decision

Hi Elias,

I won't comment specifically on Abraham's/Hicks teachings because I haven't studied them. I am only vaguely familiar with them through friends that do study it.

However, when it comes to feeling good about something, there is an observation I have had for a long time.

Based on past events, some people have very deeply embedded fears within their subconscious programming. Because of this, they will deliberately avoid doing certain things or taking part in things because it "feels good" to them to maintain where they are.

The concept of doing something because it "feels good" is based on a false premise that it is inherently empowering. It could be argued that the "higher self" or "connection to source by their higher self" will let someone know if it feels good or right to do this or that.

My belief is that some of the most empowering things we can ever do in this life takes courage and almost nothing that we do that is courageous feels good...it actually feels bad and scary because it challenges our current paradigms that the ego is comfortable with.

Some of the most empowering things I have ever experienced in my life were some of the scariest and I can guarantee you that I certainly didn't feel good about it. I had adrenaline rushes and some anxiety but if if I didn't then it wouldn't be evidence that courage was necessary. If there is no courage, then it would just feel nice and cozy.

It feels good to avoid looking stupid or dumb, it feels good to avoid change, it feels good to do many things that are not in accordance with our higher purpose.

Therefore, the fear is running some people and they aren't making a powerful choice on their own. The avoidance and self-preservation can feel really, really good compared to doing something that takes courage to stand up against judgment from others, etc...

Anyway, just some thoughts.

**elias** · 10-30-2007, 09:04 AM

I like your thinking Aaron

I am fascinated by your comments Aaron.
I am so glad that I have found this forum.

I think that Abraham means that you should feel good no matter what, I mean in the most stressful conditions don't lose your mental control which will lead to dis-eases.

I was starting to believe really in the law of attraction where this Abraham appeared, I was very very astonished by the wonderful words they were offering, but after a bit thinking I thought this may be a trick, because no one will care for the poor because of the idea that they have attracted it. No one will be motivated to help each other because according to their philosophy that no one is any different after death. Death is delicious for everyone according to their teachings, even for the most evil people who suppresses technologies, spreads war, etc. I can't think that way, This simply is not Justice. Justice is inherent in the creation and if after death everyone equalizes, there seems to be a violation of Justice. According to these teachings, You may not sue anybody because you have attracted the negative circumstances and no body is responsible for any bad that has come to you except yourself. Then there is no necessity in prison, court of law and etc ... .

I started this thread to filter out the truth from Abraham-Hicks material.

Kindest Regards ...

**dannyboybell** · 10-30-2007, 09:52 AM

Well...

AAron wrote:

"Based on past events, some people have very deeply embedded fears within their subconscious programming. Because of this, they will deliberately avoid doing certain things or taking part in things because it "feels good" to them to maintain where they are.

The concept of doing something because it "feels good" is based on a false premise that it is inherently empowering. It could be argued that the "higher self" or "connection to source by their higher self" will let someone know if it feels good or right to do this or that."

I've had the feeling for a while that Abraham has somehow forgotten what it's like to be human(and I am a big fan of abraham) so maybe if we were pure as our higher self our guidance system of feeling good would never fail us...maybe what you consider courageous isn't courageous at all in the eyes of source...it's fabricated fear(even tho it feels very real to you) that has to be overcome...

If you believe in the Law Of Attraction you probably shouldn't concentrate too much on Hell and evil conspiracies cause then they will exist for you I suppose...

And about paradoxation...some of us humans think we're pretty damn smart and that our logic should be the answer to everything...I think thinking outside the box may mean to at some point we have to leave logic behind...and I've been a great fan of logic all my life...and maybe logic is a great thing if you have all the facts...but is there more to the universe than we as humans currently know? I think so...

A few thoughts...

Danny

**elias** · 10-30-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by dannyboybell View Post

AAron wrote:

"Based on past events, some people have very deeply embedded fears within their subconscious programming. Because of this, they will deliberately avoid doing certain things or taking part in things because it "feels good" to them to maintain where they are.

The concept of doing something because it "feels good" is based on a false premise that it is inherently empowering. It could be argued that the "higher self" or "connection to source by their higher self" will let someone know if it feels good or right to do this or that."

I've had the feeling for a while that Abraham has somehow forgotten what it's like to be human(and I am a big fan of abraham) so maybe if we were pure as our higher self our guidance system of feeling good would never fail us...maybe what you consider courageous isn't courageous at all in the eyes of source...it's fabricated fear(even tho it feels very real to you) that has to be overcome...

If you believe in the Law Of Attraction you probably shouldn't concentrate too much on Hell and evil conspiracies cause then they will exist for you I suppose...

And about paradoxation...some of us humans think we're pretty damn smart and that our logic should be the answer to everything...I think thinking outside the box may mean to at some point we have to leave logic behind...and I've been a great fan of logic all my life...and maybe logic is a great thing if you have all the facts...but is there more to the universe than we as humans currently know? I think so...

A few thoughts...

Danny

Thanks I agree quite that if one thinks of not going to Hell most may probably end up in there!

The Infinite be with you ...

Elias

**sana2008** · 06-01-2010, 08:16 PM

Abraham Hicks

The reason Abraham hicks does not work for me, is because when you manifest something painful, it is difficult to just think I am powerful I can fix this.... Thats when I need to know I am not alone, also who wants to believe it is all up to me, so when something negaitve happens I can feel like hating myself for it. I have found that sometimes negative stuff is the communication of the universe not to punish us but to help us......It really depends on what one is asking for . If you are looking for a better relationship or alignment to something, sometimes situations will manifests as a message....and then it can be released out of our energy. What I do not like about Abraham Hicks is that it is a dividing message, plus Joy and Happiness are just a part of life, there are other things like having menaing and purpose. If people are here to just have fun, then where is the line between hedonism and being more spiritually evolved. Many people I know in LOA are drinking and whooping it up... I have a calling I get direct messages from the divine, but it did not happen until I was ready.... I struggles alot at times in my life, but it all led me to what I was asking for 20 years ago and Law of ATtraction was revealed to me when I was ready.....

**forlan2074** · 07-20-2010, 12:12 AM

Abraham hick is one of the best teachers on the planet today.Abraham has described themselves as "a group consciousness from the non-physical dimension which helps a lot.

Abraham Hicks

**heskey627** · 09-18-2010, 06:57 AM

Abraham hick is one best sellers in today's world on the topic of laws of attraction,many people follow their writings these days and have experienced changes in their life. Some of his articles can be viewed at The Metaphysical Mamas .

**Rockchick** · 02-20-2011, 07:13 PM

I agree with Abraham, that it is important to feel good but I would not encourage anyone to kill someone, lie, steal, be selfesh or to ignore and not help unfortunate people but there is very little we can do for the poor.

I don't believe that the law of attraction is about ignoring people in pain because they asked for it from the universe, but that we must focus ourselves on creating our own future which doesn't inflict pain on others and that we shouldn't spend most of our lives feeling sorry for others or rescuing people because it drains us and doesn't get us any where.

I believe that our emotional programing has influenced the situation in our lives to make us stronger and that it is only which you focus on the most that you attract into your lives whether good or bad but that there is also a time delay, so no not everything which happens in your life you attract, but alot of it you do because you give your attention to it.

3 years ago I have atracted alot of people with huge emotional baggage and I believe that I did atract it because the way I thought was invalid but we can change our thoughts from negitive to positive.

I have discovered that alot of poor people are doing very well for themselves so it takes alot of courage and self - love to transform our lives even with the support of others.

So I believe that life is a learning experience but that we also atract things which we strongly think about and maybe God grants us what we want.

Abraham did a video called Me and spanish did another video and they both mentioned that in order to get what you want from God we must do the following:

A. Help people
B. love people
C. Love the world
D. Appreciate life
E. Feel glad to be alive
F. Touch
G. Show love
H. Repeat daily positive affirmations.

There maybe more to it than that but Help people means offer a hand even if it's a small deed, it really does matter.

Touch - The power of touch is very strong and conforting such as hugs, kisses, holding hands and making love.

As with the poor, I have realised that there is very little we can do because nature can interfere with the land and the crops of the poor so we would just be wasting time. Humans are very inteligence, so the poor are bound to come up with strategies to coping in life because we cannot do it for them.

All we can do, is send food and bottles of water and teach them about life but they food and water facilities will go down and focusing mostly on them could result in us going into famine so why risk that?

I have many ideas of helping them, but I have realised that when volcanoes errupt, when there are floods, tsunamis and earthquakes, we cannot stop them from coming but we could bulid something to keep the water from flooding that land or something destroying the crops.

We are kind of poor as well because of the recession.

Maybe they do bring it on themsleves or maybe it is an event to challenge them look people are really our mirrors and life always challenges and I believe that God inflicts hard events on us to challenge us and make is stronger and wiser people.

So ya, focus only on positive thoughts regardless of your situation and you will be able to pull yourself out of that situation because you can't when you are in any way fearful or have no self love.

when a loved one is upset, just comfort them, when they are angry listen to them but when they exepect you to feel fear or act in fear just because they do, do not listen to them because it is never worth it in the end.

Love is the answer.

Barbera De angelis is anm inspiration of mine.

**illusions** · 03-18-2011, 10:27 AM

Excellent discussion! Thanks for starting it, Elias

Here are my thoughts on a couple of the points you've mentioned:

Regarding helping others:

Many people are raised to put others first - we're taught this as part of "good manners" and "consideration". And the intentions are good... however... the subconscious message being programmed into a child who is taught to put others first is "others are more important than me - which equals: I am not worthy"

Because this programming is subconscious, no-one realises this is the result, and therefore the belief remains uncontested and becomes a core part of the person's personality, gaining compounded effect.

In this case, they will be "helping others" out of a false belief - which will feel "right" but probably not "good". Their efforts are likely to be not as effective as they'd like them to be - and more of a "fire-fighting" process than a problem-solving one.

A person who has learned to love and value themselves, and who is working from the knowledge that whatever they want to change starts inside themselves - including helping others - will take action to help others out of inspiration and joy - this kind of help will probably produce more effective and long-lasting results.

The poor attracted their circumstances:

This is a tricky one because of course, it sounds really harsh when considered from inside the illusion of this physical experience. A similarly tricky question in religion is "How and why would God let those people be poor? What have they done to deserve to be in those circumstances when there is an all-powerful God who is able to stop their suffering?"

Here's how I see it:
Imagine an ocean - that is "all that is" The waves rising up are us - human projections of "all that is". We are always still connected to our source, just as the waves are always connected to, and part of, the ocean. When the waves crash back down they rejoin the ocean - when we "die" within this physical experience, we rejoin our source. New waves keep forming, and new human projections keep forming in the same way.

Now think of a big lake. Completely still, no waves, no disturbance. Imagine being "all that is" - in a constant and consistant state of bliss. Sounds fabulous to begin with

but an eternity of constant and consistant bliss, if you think about it for a while, is not as great as it sounds

It lacks the stimulation, the light and shade, the comparison, the creativity, the thrill of the ocean.

So, "all that is" has created a playground for itself. A realm in which it can project itself as separate consciousness and enjoy the challenge and all the experiences of a virtual reality game. And to make it even more effective, the "players" choose to temporarily erase the memory that it is a game, and thereby fully submerge themselves in the experience.

Knowing this doesn't make me want to ignore suffering and poverty - but I am aware that it is part of the "game" I do help - I love helping others - but I help in awareness that I am helping as "part of the game" AND because it feels good, not out of guilt

That is the difference. Feelings of guilt and pity are not helpful to anyone. Feelings of inspiration coming from a "feel good" place are empowering to both the person doing the helping and those receiving it.

And in order to make changes from outside the game, I know that it's necessary to make those changes from inside myself (the player). For example, helping the victims of Japan's earthquake from WITHIN the game would be donating money, organising fund-raising, volunteering for the rescue services if possible etc. The effect of this help will be confined to what is possible within the physical realm - within the "game".

Helping the same people from OUTSIDE the game would be starting with feeling overwheliming unconditional love (not an emotion, a power) for yourself, filling yourself with it until it's overflowing, then sending that energy to those people; or using visualisation to imagine them as who they really are - magnificent, powerful spiritual beings (whether you believe that to be true or not, the positive energy will do more to empower them than pity and sorrow); another visualisation is to see the end result - to see the people you want to help as already helped. This is making changes from OUTSIDE the game. There is nothing wrong with helping from both inside and outside the game - this is what I like to do. I like to help from outside the game, knowing it is really the only way to make significant core changes, and I like to take part in the game itself by making donations and helping wherever I can - not because I feel I should or out of guilt, but because it feels good. And the very state of feeling good is chanelling power from outside the game - with deeper, more effective positive results.

Wow, sorry, this turned out much longer than I intended lol

so I'll address some of the other points another time.

Love and Light and Magic xxx

**serenac** · 03-28-2011, 05:10 AM

Hi everyone! That's so true what you said, Illusions, I totally agree with ya!

Hi Elias! And anyone else who also might have doubts about some of Abraham's teachings. There's a very interesting book you might like to have a peek at, it's by a woman called Rose Rosetree called Magnetize Money and in it she talks about aura readings that she has done, including readings that she has done on Esther and Jerry Hicks and on Esther when she is channelling Abraham. These are really interesting, make for a good read if anyone wants to try something different.

You might find, Elias, that maybe you might be a bit closer to what's going on than you might have thought when you first posted this!

I tend to agree a great deal with the things that Rose Rosetree writes in her book about Abraham. But anyways, asides from that, my personal opinion of Abraham and his teachings, is that, well I used to read a lot by him and watch a lot of his videos. But after that I got bored. Not because I disagreed with them necessarily. Not because they didn't help. Just that, they didn't provide the kind of help I needed. I guess everyone is different and everyone needs help in different areas. For example if you're an electrician you probably don't need someone to come into your home to help you change a lightbulb. But someone like me, DEFINITELY does!

Yes, there's a lightbulb in my home that I just CAN'T change because the wire in the lamp has broken, and I don't know how to fix a broken wire!

So I DO need help with that. For Mr. Electrician here, on the other hand, that would be like adding 1 and 2!

So if Abraham were a DIY home manual I'd need like about 10 volumes, but Mr. Electrician probably would get bored on chapter 1. If ya get what I mean haha!

Anyways, I think Abraham is good for people who would like spiritual help, people who would like to learn how to change their thinking. How to be less pessimistic.

But that's not the kind of help I needed.

For example, we can imagine that you don't know how to cook. Then Abraham could be like a cookbook with recipes in it. But my problem isn't that I don't know how to cook. My problem is that even though I can make dinner for my family, I still don't know what to do first, what to do next, etc.

I might know that to make a scrambled egg I need oil, salt and eggs. I might even have the cookbook in front of me. But the cookbook probably wouldn't tell me obvious things that most people with common sense already just know, without anyone telling them, because they DO have common sense. But I don't have common sense.

So I would probably take an egg, walk around the house with it for 5 minutes wondering what I'm s'posed to do with the egg, then finally break it into a frying pan. A frying pan that's sitting on the shelf, with no oil in it, and not on the stove. Because the recipe didn't tell me I was s'posed to dump some oil into the frying pan or put it on the stove and turn it on! The recipe didn't say that because the author assumed that it was obvious. But for me it wasn't obvious! Remember, I'm the gal with no common sense!

After dumping the egg into the frying pan I would probably wonder why the egg wasn't scrambled. Another point the cookbook forgot to mention. Because it was obvious, or at least the author thought it was obvious.

In the end I would probably end up ordering from the pizzeria!

So that is my problem. And Abraham doesn't help me very much with that. Abraham can help me learn to feel better, but he doesn't teach me how to fill out an Income Tax form. He might be able to help me to visualize a nice job looming up in my future, but it wouldn't do me much good if my CV is full of spelling mistakes and mentions things like that I have 5 cats, but forgot to mention the jobs I had in the past. Because I was too busy imagining myself in my idyllic new job, I forgot to pass my CV through the spell check!

That's not saying that Abraham isn't helpful. Most people don't have problems dealing with the nitty gritty details of life. Most people have the opposite problem, they get so caught up in the little details of life they forget to smile.

Smile!

So then Abraham helps you. But I'm the kind who tends to spend the whole day sitting around on the sofa smiling like an idiot anyways. I have no problems with forgetting to smile, but I forget to make dinner, do the laundry or send out my CV. So we don't eat, we have nothing to wear and no job shows up in my life.

Sorry, I'm ramblin' again.

**Zakarya** · 09-04-2011, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by elias View Post

Hello to everyone,

I recently posted this on another thread but I decided to copy it here to start a new discussion about Abraham Hicks' Teachings which is the leading edge on Law of Attraction. I personally believe in the law of attraction, but I think that the model is not so complete, some other scenarios may exist.

I would be grateful to hear explanations.

Something in Abraham's teachings disturbs me very much, although I completely agree his idea of creation and love and law of attraction. That thing is the saying that killing people is not really a bad thing because it causes their soul get free!!!

But he also says that everything you do must make you feel better! What normal person feels good when he kills somebody on purpose to harm him/her?! Only those who have become so evil (LACK of Love) may feel good(?) when killing somebody.

You certainly know that some SICK people seek pleasure when torturing somebody! (labeled as SADISM) Then should these SICK people do this because it makes them feel good?! But they certainly make some people feel bad!! Would Abraham suggest these people to continue doing these tortures because they feel Good?

I don't want to judge too fast because I have learned so much from Abraham but there seems to be something CREEPY in Abraham's teachings. It suggests that no matter a government drops bombs on some people or some terrorists because they are attracting that. I believe in the law of attraction to some degree but, I think that there must be a more complete model for describing the world events.

As an end note, One of the most common forms of deception is putting an evil idea beside tons of good and loving information, then one would grasp that bit of evil idea without knowing that! I mean that should we say "The poor deserves to be poor because they have attracted that"? I think that there is another side to this law of attraction which we must take into consideration.

I want to present a paradox here about the so called Abraham's teachings:
(Listen closely)

Abraham talks about Steven Spielberg and says that see what he has created by using his Imagination. He says that you are creators and you create everything by your mind. So he means (or they mean) that every imagination creates.
He also claims that Hell and Judgment day does not exist and is a fictional imaginary thing.

So what can a WISE person conclude from these sayings?
(so MANY people have imagined it throughout the history and had fear of entering it) AND (also each imagination is a creation) THEN [Hell should Exist]. Maybe according to Abraham's teachings only those who fear entering Hell enter Hell?!!?

But he does not state so and tells that after death EVERYONE is Infinite and THE SAME after death.

I concluded that this is an extremely BAD paradox which is presented and IS INHERENT to Abraham's teachings.

NO ONE CAN DENY THE BEAUTY OF ABRAHAM'S TEACHINGS BECAUSE MOST OF IT IS BASED ON WHAT OUR WISE TEACHERS OF THE PAST (ADAM, DAVID, JOSEPH, JACOB, NOAH, THE real ABRAHAM, MOSES, JESUS, MOHAMMED and many more) BUT A SMALL PORTION OF IT IS CERTAINLY FLAWED.

I want to address some scenario's to find out what's happening with these teachings. I just want to see what's the real truth. These are the scenarios that MAY and I state that MAY be happening with the Abraham Hicks case. I don't mean anything by this. (Only for investigation)

Number one:
If we believe in an entity or a creature named DEVIL or SATAN which has sworn in the name of God to lead men astray, then could this be a new trick offered by this entity to lead the people away from the ONLY creator and make them believe that they are the creators and they are not to depend on God? Satan once was a close servant of God but refusing to submission made him an evil entity. What the so called Abraham teaches could be Devil's trick. Especially when he assigns the name of Abraham to the teachings which is the founding father of the three major religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. This makes so much sense. According to this analogy we are not creators and we must connect to the ONE and ONLY creator of the universe. In other words we must connect to the source and HE is the creator and creates for us upon our wanting. (It seems that the model for the law of attraction must change) I think that this being CAN refuse to create for us, because HE is the all powerful, but never does because he is the all giving and merciful. One must consider himself nothing in front of this creator to reach the utmost degrees of LOVE and UNITY. Betraying in front of this Creator can lead to severe pain after death. But Abraham states that you are the creator. There is some contradictions here.

Number two:
The so called Abraham's teachings, tells us that don't bother yourselves with the poor people or people who some evil men have bombed them, because the law of attraction has yielded them so. THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, we as human beings cannot FEEL GOOD if this happens, but Abraham suggests no matter what just feel good and don't do anything to help them, don't help the poor. Abraham does not tell us directly not to help the poor but one unconsciously will develop such an attitude towards the poor (Your mind will think that they deserve that and You need not help them) Or you will not protest and make any trouble for the government against the war and bombing. The government SURELY wants no one to protest and has a definite motivation to spread this type of disinformation.
So, I think that the EVIL GOVERNMENT can by using MIND CONTROL TECHNIQUES (MKULTRA) make people like Esther to think that she is receiving information from a WISE eternal being, not knowing that she is suffering from MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder).
To Note that According to my MKULTRA studies, women are much easily controlled and can become a MIND CONTROLLED SLAVE without knowing so. It is evident that SETH, THEO, ABRAHAM are all speaking through WOMEN.
This certainly should make us ponder a while. These women contradict in their teachings if you listen closely to what they say. I listened to a tape of SETH which he claimed that there are gods and not a single one, see the contradiction. Seth on God, Religion and All That Is

I personally think that clarification of these matters is so necessary.
Eager to see different opinions ... PLEASE SHOW ME THAT I AM WRONG!

God Bless,

Elias

Hi Elias
You said "If we believe in an entity or a creature named DEVIL or SATAN which has sworn in the name of God to lead men astray, then could this be a new trick offered by this entity to lead the people away from the ONLY creator and make them believe that they are the creators and they are not to depend on God?"
I was following Abraham's quotes but in the end,that is the conclusion that dawned in my mind and I absolutelty agree with that statement you wrote so clearly and so well.I am glad to see that some people still have "good sense of thinking".

**Raphael37** · 01-30-2013, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by elias View Post

This certainly should make us ponder a while.
I personally think that clarification of these matters is so necessary.
Eager to see different opinions ... PLEASE SHOW ME THAT I AM WRONG!

God Bless,

Elias

Esther is a fraud.
Like the rest of em', just like Basher and the wee Grandma Keisha too.

Not to mention Neil D. Walsh who had Conversations with God.

This MONSTER BUS with the SUV in tow is the main reason I feel this is all a scripted stage play leading nowhere.

Why is it folks fall for this nonsense?
Why do Americans (mostly) need cheerleaders to show them how to achieve the American dream?

Don't Americans realize that your dreams result in nightmares for the developing world?

I listened to Esther on a CD, it sounded like bunk, I saw Esther on a DVD she looked sincere however anybody reading their bible for a lifetime PLUS dabbling in psychology 101 can become the next Esther/Abraham or Jane/Seth spokesperson for 'we the sheeple' to embrace.

Now if Esther had retreated and started making her own clothing on a loom like Gandhi, I would have MORE respect for her BS drivel, however when I saw their MONSTER BUS etc. her stock plummeted.

bottom line?
Yanks need to stop with their material desires ... can 7 billion people have their material desires fulfilled and ma earth survive what we all want???
Nope, no way!

Esther is filled with DESIRE and she is rather dumb about the facts of life down here on planet earth, and the pollution America produces per/capita.
Law of Attraction is shallow nonsense.
Law of Attraction is IGNORANT of the other Law called Repulsion.

America is less than 5% of the world's population yet as a country it consumes more than 30% of the world's resources.

And the herd of 'we the sheeple' want more, more, more of what the earth can give....?

namaste

**Raphael37** · 03-24-2013, 02:41 PM

what do I really think of Neale Donald Walsch and his Conversations with a Catholic God?

http://www.energeticforum.com/227868-post1.html

namaste

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A Paradox in Abraham Hicks' Teachings?

A Paradox in Abraham Hicks' Teachings?

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