To be happy! Ask yourself this question

[ANTIQUER]

Hi again Ahmd.

I think from the way you word your answers we may have a bit of a language barrier, but I think you are saying "escaping from God" means one who is out of touch with God due to erroneous beliefs such as believing Jesus is God. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me.

I think this may also cause some misunderstanding of the King James Bible, especially since it was translated into Old English from Hebrew, Greek, Amaraic, Chaldee and a couple of other languages.

I can only think this is why so many people continue to think Jesus was not The Son of God and God, so here are just a few verses of many which proclaim both from different aspects.

Hebrews 1:1-8 "God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they, for unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?And again I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.--------------But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of rightousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for us..."

I cor.8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Hebrews 10-12 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down on the right hand of God, from henceforth waiting until his enemies be made his footstool."

! John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also."

I John 5:11-13 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life:and he that hath not the Son hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God: that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

I John 5:10 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God,and eternal life."

II John 9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.He that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."`

I Cor. 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet 50 years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am. Then they took up stones to cast at him (They understood he had proclaimed himself to be God).

John 8: 19 and 23-24 "Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had Known me, ye should have known my Father.....Ye are from beneath, I am from above: ye are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

John 11: 25-27 "Jesus said unto her(Martha) I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. believeth thou this?She said unto him, Yea Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

John 17:11 " And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, AS WE ARE."

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."(Only God could sent his Holy Spirit, the Comforter.)

John 10:30-31 "I and my Father are one."Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.(Again, they understood that He had claimed to be God.)

Matt.1:20-23"....fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that thing which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is God with us."(Isaiah 7:14)

The incident you refer to in Mark 10:17&18 and Luke 18:18-19 is also in Matt. 19:16-30. There is a similar incident in Luke 10;25-29. Both the rich young ruler and the lawyer who were religious on the outside but not "believers" were tempting and testing Jesus and not recognizing him as deity even though he was teaching as the Son of God. That's why they addressed him as Master( an earthly teacher) and not as Lord. What Jesus replied was essentially "Believing me to be but a human teacher, why do you call me "good" as only God is good.

Contrast the rich young ruler who could not give what he had to the poor, and went away unsaved, with Zaccheus (Luke 19:1-10) who received Jesus, was saved, and gave away half of everything he had and restored four-fold anything he had taken unjustly.

As I said there are many more verses and I will gladly post them if you wish, or at least reference them if you wish. I think these cover most of the questions here. That's all I have time for tonight plus my keyboard is acting up. I'll try to get back and answer more of the specific ones later.

Meantime please consider this: If Jesus was not God as he claimed to be and proved in various ways, then all the millions of Christians since then have been duped by the greatest liar and con man in history. Is this even possible? Having seen the change in people who simply took him at his word and became born-again Christians I sincerely don't believe it to be so.

Al

[ahmd]

hi ANTIQUER

Who is the God of the Bible?

"ONE" - SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY

[Mark 10:6-9 and John 14:20, 15:1-7, 17:11, 17:18-23, 17:26]


There are many verses in the Bible that speak of Jesus and God as being "one".
But does this necessarily mean that Jesus is God? If you read the six selections above then you will see that we cannot take the word "one" so literally. If we do, then we are God, as Jesus said, "...they also may be one in us" and "...they may be one, even as we are one." What the Bible means when it says that Jesus is "one" with God is that he is extremely close to god, "as if" they are one. John 17:18-23 tells how we normal human beings can attain this "oneness" (or "closeness") with God by being "sanctified through the truth." Aside from this, neither the word "trinity" appears anywhere in the Bible nor any explanation of such a thing.

"LORD" DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN "GOD"

[Matthew 18:23-34, Luke 19:11-21, and John 20:26-29]


Many of Jesus' disciples referred to Jesus as "Lord". Even Jesus himself said that he is their Lord. But does this mean that he is their God? If you read the three short stories above then you will realize that back in the Biblical time period most servants referred to their masters as "lord". This was a common practice because it showed honor and respect for a person of such high stature.

"LORD" - A LOFTY TITLE

Even today in many countries around the world such as England, "lord" is used in referring to kings, princes, and others who deserve such a lofty title. The disciples and followers of Jesus viewed him as their earthy master and themselves as his servants. He was a man from God who brought them God's message of truth, justice, and peace. Who could be more deserving of the title "lord" than Jesus Christ? Besides, "lord" is defined by Webster in many curious ways.

A few of them are as follows:

A man of high rank in a feudal society.
A king.
A general masculine title of nobility or rank.
A man of renowned power.
A man who has mastery in a given activity or field.

Commenting on the word's history, Webster says that "lord" literally means 'guardian of the bread'". He continues, "Since such a position would be the dominant one in the household, lord came to denote a man of authority and rank in society at large."

In The Holy Quran also uses "lord" in the same context (see 12:23 and 12:41-42). This was simply the language of the time.

The word "lord" does not render the person which it is being applied to as God. If this were the case, then many human beings in the Bible would have to be considered God.


Does Bible Say 'Jesus is God'?

These verses are most indicative of Jesus' position and real nature. The verse in Mark reads:

"As he [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."



If you analyze this verse in truth you will see that Jesus, quite simply, is not God. If he was, why then would he say "No one is good but God alone"? Jesus did not want to be called "good" because he was not God. That title, as Jesus admits, belongs to none but God.


What Does it all Mean?

CONCLUSION

If all of this has confused you it's probably because you've been trying to justify your belief in the Trinity. To believe in the Trinity goes against all of the teachings of Jesus, as well as the Bible. This is because the Trinity is a man-made doctrine that was drawn up several hundred years after Jesus. In this time period different interpretations of the Bible were causing serious debates among Christians. The various interpretations were, undoubtedly, due to human perversion of the original scriptures, poor preservation, and/or shoddy translations. One of the main things being questioned was the nature of God and Jesus. Was Jesus actually God, the son of God, or just a messenger? The Council of Nicea was formed in an attempt to settle this dispute, and the Nicea Creed (the Trinitarian doctrine) was subsequently hammered out.

Again, as I stated in the beginning, this writing has not been complied to put down or destroy the true teachings of the Bible and the Prophets. I would like to quote from a version of the Bible wherein Jesus is represented as saying:

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law [Torah] and the Prophets [prophethood]. I did not come to destroy them, but rather to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments [from the Law] and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

[Matt. 5:17]


It is wrong to assume that our beliefs are true simply because our teachers, preachers and parents have taught us something passed down to them by generations of forefathers before them. What I would invite all of us to do is to do research for ourselves and learn from reliable sources what is the origin of modern Christianity and what should be our perspective on true belief in general. We can only achieve this with open minds and hearts.


So, may the Great God of the Universe guide us all with His perfect Guidance to all truth, ameen.


What to do Now?

It is not at all logical to simply accept a belief system because it was passed down to you by your parents. After all, what if it is not correct? A system for belief should be based upon sound principles of reasoning and understanding, rather than feelings and emotions.

As regards the Muslims treatment of Jesus, peace be upon him, it should be kept in mind that, although they do not hold him to be the 'son of god' in Christianity, he is definitely held in high esteem as great prophet, 'Miraculous birth" and also believe in the same unseen God that he referred to as "Your Lord and my Lord, your God and my God."

Islam is truly and simply a complete way of life and set of rules taught by all the prophets to mankind, similar to Biblical teachings that were revealed to humankind after Jesus through the last and final prophet Muhammad.

read more

Biblical Contradictions

[ANTIQUER]

Hi ahmd.

Sorry for the delay in responding;my life got busy again.

I am aware of the various usages of the words "lord" and "one". As with many words you have to understand them in the context of the passage they are used in.

As to Mark 10: 6-9 I have already explained that what Jesus was saying was "If you don't believe I am God why do you call me Good? Only God is Good, and you don't believe I am God."

As to The Trinity Jesus refers many times to God The Father, God The Son, and The Holy Spirit as being parts of the Godhead (Trinity)

The transfiguration-Matt.17:1-8 ,Luke 9: 28-36 ,Mk.9:2-8 "While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them; and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." Here is God the Father and God the Son.(See also II Peter 1: 17-18)
Baptism of Jesus- Matt.3: 13-17, Luke 3:21-22, Mark 1: 9-11. "And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Here are all three members.
There are many more, as I am sure you are aware. Jesus spoke of all three many times.

I have given you several other verses which show him to be God as declared by Himself, by God the Father and by others. Why do you neglect mentioning them ?

I will quote a few of them as translated by The Amplified Bible which is in modern English. It's purpose is to go beyond the traditional "word-for-word" concept of translation to bring out the richness of the Hebrew and Greek languages. It shows, together with the single English word equivalent to each key Hebrew and Greek word, any other clarifying meanings that may be concealed by the traditional translation method. The use of this "amplification" helps the reader comprehend what the Hebrew and Greek listener instinctively understood as a matter of course.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are One"Jesus meant exactly what it says; He is God. no other meaning is possible here. Look at vs. 33- "The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself out to be God."
They understood.

John 8:57 Jesus replied,I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM." So they took up stones to throw at him..... Exodus 3: 14-15 " And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM and WHAT I AM, and I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE; and He said, You shall say to the Israelites, I AM has sent me to you! God said also to Moses, This shall you say to the Israelites, The Lord, The God of your fathers, Of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has sent me to you! This is My name forever, and by this name I am to be remembered to all generations. Again, they wanted to stone Jesus because they understood he had declared himself God.

I John5:20 " And we have seen and know positively that the Son of God has actually come to this world and has given us understanding and insight progressively to perceive(recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true- in His Son Jesus Christ The Messiah. This Man is the true God and Life Eternal.

II John 9 "Anyone who runs on ahead of God and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ (who is not content with what He taught) does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ does have God, he has both the Father and the Son."

Titus 2:13 "Awaiting and looking for the fulfillment, the realization of our blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus the Messiah, the Anointed One."

Hebrews 1:8 "But as to the Son, He (God) says to Him, Your throne, O god, is forever and ever( to the ages of the ages) and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of absolute righteousness (of justice and straightforwardness) vs. 9...Therefore God, even your Godhead, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy and gladness above and beyond Your companions.... vs. 10 "And further, You, Lord did lay the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands."

Hebrews 10:12 "Whereas this One(Christ), after He had offered a single sacrifice for our sins, that shall avail for all time, sat down at the right hand of God."

Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse (sterner and heavier) punishment do you suppose he will be judged to deserve who has spurned and thus trampled underfoot the Son of God, and who has considered the covenant blood by which he was consecrated common and unhallowed, thus profaning it and insulting and outraging the Holy Spirit Who imparts grace, the unmerited favor and blessing of God?"

There are more, but my time is limited today. Frankly, I don't see how anyone who has read the Bible and claims to understand it can fail to see Jesus is God and a part of The Trinity.
Even some of the very verses you cite refute your claim that Jesus is not God. John 20: 28 "Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!" Thomas the Apostle understood. How could he not after seeing and talking to the risen Jesus?
In Matt. 5:17 He said he came to FULFILL the law and the prophets. All was fulfilled and accomplished when he died on the cross . He fulfilled the law by doing away with the old covenant of sacrifices and rituals and establishing a new covenant of grace. He also became the high priest at that time and established all believers as their own priests with direct access to him. The book of Hebrews, among other places, makes this very clear, esp. chapters 8-10.

As to your conclusion I am not the least confused. You cannot confuse a born-again Christian as we have the truth and the Holy Spirit living in us to help our understanding.I did not accept my faith in Christ blindly,and I have seen the results of His indwelling spirit in many others, as I said previously.

As far as translations of the King James Bible it is accurate. There is a discussion of this on the "Bible" thread which I invite you to read. Much of the confusion is caused by non-believers who try to interpret that which they do not understand.The Bible was written mostly to and for Christians, not to non-Christians, hence the many references to "the world" which neither knows nor can understand God or His word.

What is illogical is to venerate Jesus as a mere prophet when He did things no mere prophet could do, as rising from the grave, forgiving sins(which no prophet ever did or could do as they did not have the authority from God), performing many miracles, including raising the dead, and even controlling the very elements of nature at a moments notice.How can a Muslim believe in His virgin birth which fulfilled a very specific prophesy that said He was "God with us" and not believe He is God? What other purpose would that birth serve? Further, no mere prophet was ever born of a virgin. Why would the world need another prophet? It didn't: Jesus said "It is finished". There was and is nothing more needed than belief in Him.

Mankind does not need another set of rules which they cannot keep; they only need forgiveness through Jesus who replaced the former rules with a new testament(covenant) . It is called "grace".(Ephesians 2:5-8 and several other verses).

I have been to the site Biblical Contradictions; obviously composed by someone who did not understand what they were comparing. I may comment on that later but I am out of time for today.

You previously commented that Muslims look forward to the return of Jesus. Would you please tell me why and what they believe will happen then and where it will occur as I am curious about this.

Thanks and I look forward to our next discussion.

Al

[ahmd]

Hi ANTIQUER
No problem, my friend

God Becomes One Man
Christian belief in God’s incarnation has its origins in the beliefs of the ancient Greeks. The very terms used to describe God becoming Man exist in the Gospel of John 1:1 & 14, “In the beginning there was the Word (logos) and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” Then the author of John goes on to say, “...And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth...” Although the Greek term logos is translated as “word,” there is no single English term equivalent to it. Its importance lies in its use as a technical term in Greek metaphysical thought from the sixth century B.C., until the third century C.E., and in its appropriation by both Jewish and Christian thinkers. It first appeared in the expressions of Heraclites (540-480 B.C.) as the motivating principle of the universe, but was, by Aristotle’s time, supplanted by the immaterial power nous and made the material power. Logos reappeared in the system of the Stoics who termed their principle of teleology both logos and God. Philo (d. 50 C.E.), a Jewish Alexandrian philosopher, identified the creative word of the Old Testament with the logos of the Stoics. The logos thus became a transcendent principle, as the means by which God expresses Himself in the world. But logos also had a redemptive function; it was the means to a higher spiritual nature. In the Gospel of John, the logos are both creative and redemptive; the latter aspect is given greater emphasis than the former.7
This belief required a reason, for which the concept of original sin and divine sacrifice were invented. It was claimed that due to the sin of Adam, which accumulated down the generations until it became so great that no human sacrifice could remove it, a divine sacrifice was needed. Consequently, God had a human son, who was God, Himself, incarnate. God’s son later died on a cross as a sacrifice for all humankind to God, Himself. The son, who is God, Himself, was later resurrected and currently sits on the right side of God’s throne waiting to judge humankind at the end of this world. So for Christians, also one-fifth of humankind, God became a man at one and only one point in the history of this world, and belief in His incarnation is essential for salvation.__________________________________________
7 Dictionary of Philosophy and Religion, p. 314.

Why?
What led ancient people to have the belief that the God became man or that God and man were one and the same? The fundamental reason was their inability to understand or accept the concept of God creating this world from nothingness. They perceived God to be like themselves, creating from what already exists. Humans create things by manipulating existing things into other states, shapes and forms having different functions. For example, a wooden table was once a tree in a forest, and its nails and screws were once iron ore in rocks underneath the earth. Humans cut down the tree and shaped its wood into a tabletop and legs; they dug up the iron ore, melted it and poured in into moulds to produce nails and screws. Then they assembled the pieces to create a table for a variety of uses. Similarly, the plastic chairs people now sit on were once liquid oil, stored deep in the bowels of the earth. One cannot imagine sitting on oil the way people sit on chairs. However, through the human ability to manipulate the chemical components of oil, plastic is produced and chairs are made for humans to sit on. This is the essence of human activity; humans already merely modify and transform what already exists. They do not create the trees or produce the oil. When they discuss oil production, they really mean oil extraction. The oil was created millions of years before by geological processes; than humans extracted it from the earth and refined it. They also did not creating the trees. Even if they planted them, they did not create the seeds that they planted.
Consequently, human, in their ignorance of God, often conceive of God as being just like them. For example, in the Old Testament, it is written, “God created man after his own image; in the image of God he created Man.” For Hindus, Purusa is the creator God, Brahma, in human form, and just as humans create by manipulating the existing world around them, than the creator god must do likewise.

Did God Become Man?
The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “... through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”
The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.”
[Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.
All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.
So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self- contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.
Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.
The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator. If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms. The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God have a Son?
If God did not become Man, did He have a son? Since He is able to do all things, He should be able to have a son. However, this claim reduces God to the lowly status of His creation. Creatures procreate by giving birth to mini versions of themselves that later grow up and reproduce copies of themselves, and so on and so forth. Dogs have puppies, cats have kittens, cows have calves, and men have children. So, what does God have – a baby God? Gods must give birth to Gods. But, for God to have a son, there has to exist another God besides Him. It is not befitting for God to have a son as such an act equates Him with His creation.
Everything other than God comes into existence by the commandment of God, not that God becomes His creation or a part of God becomes creation. God does not become His creation nor does God give birth to creation. God is God, the Creator, and man and the contents of the universe are His creation. Although humans cannot grasp the concept of creation from nothing, that is exactly what God did and does. He alone creates from nothing, which 1s among the attributes that make Him unique and distinct from His creation. His act of creation is entirely different from that of human beings.
This was the essence of the message of all the true messengers and prophets of God sent to humanity – Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad – as well as those sent throughout the world whose names are now unknown to humanity - may God’s peace and blessings be on them all. Today, this precise message can only be found in the Qur’aan; the last scripture revealed by God to humankind. The message remains loud and clear only in the Qur’aan because it has remained unchanged since the time of its revelation, one thousand four hundred years ago, until today.
God states in the Qur’aan for those who make Him like His creation or vice versa:
“There is nothing similar to Him.”
[Surah ash-Shooraa (42):11]
He also states for those who attributed to Him a son:
“But it is not suitable for Ar-Rahmaan (the Most Beneficent -Allah) that He should beget a child.”
[Surah Maryam (19):92]
He further states for those who believe that He created the world from Himself:
“If He wishes anything to exist, He merely commands it: ‘Be’, and it is.”
[Surah Yaa Seen (36):82]
For the polytheists He states:
“There was no other god along with Him, for if there were each would have taken away what he created and tried to overcome the other.”
[Surah al-Mu´minoon (23):91]
He asks the atheists:
“Did nothing create them or did they create themselves?”
[Surah at-Toor (52):35]
And in reference to Jesus and his mother, Mary, He confirmed their humanity by saying simply:
“They both used to eat food.”
[Surah al-Maa`idah (5):75]
The concept of God not becoming man is very important for every human being to grasp because it lies at the foundation of the difference between Islam and all other existing religions. All other religions have a distorted concept of God, to one degree or another. The most important idea which needs to be understood, is that God did not become man. God is unique; He alone deserves to be worshipped by His creation. To believe that a man is God or that a man became God and to worship that man is the greatest sin and the greatest evil that humans can do on this earth. This understanding is most important because it forms the foundation for salvation. There can be no salvation without it. However, this belief alone is not the key salvation. True, correct belief must be translated into practice, and not merely remain in the realm of knowledge, for it to become pure faith. A person has to live a righteous life based on the correct belief to attain salvation. Nevertheless, the starting point is, knowing who God is, knowing that God never became and will never become a human being.


Of a book

Did God Become Man

[ahmd]

You previously commented that Muslims look forward to the return of Jesus. Would you please tell me why and what they believe will happen then and where it will occur as I am curious about this.

Hi again ANTIQUER

“antichrist” or Dajjaal

(He will come to a people and call them ﴿to his way﴾ and they will respond to him. He will issue a command to the sky and it will rain, and to the earth and it will bring forth vegetation, then their livestock will come to them in the evening with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks wide and fat. Then he will come to another people and call them ﴿to his way﴾ and they will refuse, and their wealth will leave with him, and they will be faced with drought, with none of their wealth left. Then he will walk through the wasteland and will say to it, "Bring forth your treasure,'' and its treasure will come forth like a swarm of bees. Then he will issue commands that a man be killed, and he will strike him with a sword and cut him into two pieces, and (put these pieces as far apart) as the distance between an archer and his target. Then he will call him, and the man will come to him with his face shining. At that point Allah will send the Messiah `Isa bin Maryam, who will come down to the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus, wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and with his hands resting on the wings of two angels. He will search for him (the Dajjal) until he catches up with him at the eastern gate of Ludd, where he will kill him. Then Allah will reveal to `Isa ibn Maryam the words: "I have brought forth from amongst My creatures people against whom none will be able to fight. Take My servants safely to the Mount (Tur).'' Then Allah will send Ya'juj and Ma'juj, as Allah says: (and they swoop down from every Hadab.))


(`Isa and his companions will beseech Allah, and Allah will send against them insects which will attack their necks, and in the morning they will all perish as one. Then `Isa and his companions will come down and they will not find a single spot on earth that is free from their putrefaction and stench. Then `Isa and his companions will again beseech Allah, and He will send birds with necks like those of Bactrian camels, and they will carry them and throw them wherever Allah wills.) Ibn Jabir said: "`Ata' bin Yazid As-Saksaki told me, from Ka`b or someone else: `They will throw them into Al-Mahbal.' Ibn Jabir said: "I said, `O Abu Yazid, and where is Al-Mahbal'' He said, "In the east (where the sun rises).'' He said:

(Then Allah will send rain which no house of clay or (tent of) camel's hair will be able to keep out, for forty days, and the earth will be washed until it looks like a mirror. Then it will be said to the earth: bring forth your fruit and restore your blessing. On that day a group of people will be able to eat from one pomegranate and seek shade under its skin, and everything will be blessed. A milch-camel will give so much milk that it will be sufficient for a whole group of people, and a milch-cow will give so much milk that it will be sufficient for a whole clan, and a sheep will be sufficient for an entire household. At that time Allah will send a pleasant wind which will reach beneath their armpits and will take the soul of every Muslim -- or every believer -- and there will be left only the most evil of people who will commit fornication like mules, and then the Hour will come upon them.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim but not by Al-Bukhari. It was also recorded by the Sunan compilers, with different chains of narrators. At-Tirmidhi said, "It is Hasan Sahih.'' The Third Hadith Imam Ahmad recorded from Ibn Harmalah, from his maternal aunt who said: "The Messenger of Allah gave a Khutbah, and he had a bandage on his finger where he had been stung by a scorpion. He said:

(You say that you have no enemy, but you will keep fighting your enemies until Ya'juj and Ma'juj come, with their wide faces, small eyes and reddish hair, pouring down from every mound with their faces looking like burnished shields.)'' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a Hadith of Muhammad bin `Amr from Khalid bin `Abdullah bin Harmalah Al-Mudlaji, from his paternal aunt, from the Prophet , and he mentioned something similar.


Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Ya'juj and Ma'juj

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[Bagpuss]

What WAS the point ?

Firstly and MOST importantly the question is sent with love and integrity in difficult times............
I have yet to find a thread of Islam / Christian/ Buddhism/ other religious discussion where I do not get a feeling that there is immense effort being expended on proving the other wrong and "winning". For that to succeed there is usually a loser. In this context that is not healthy for the Planet or its inhabitants. We are short of food love even water on a planet largely covered by the stuff. So, let us (s)pray.......and help each other.
I see all sorts of figures thrown about as to how many of one "Side" have been killed by the other. Frankly my dear I don't give a damn! (insert Clake Gable Emoticon) No one alive is qualified to judge who started it!! What does matter is that it stops.
As a relatively ignorant genius most of the major religions appear to me to "Preach" love whilst a very distressing percentage of it's followers will kill you if you don't love and pray in the right direction.
The "Books" cited as authoritative are usually at least two or three issues old! Sometimes there may have been a bit lost in the translation. There may have been a problem with Chinese whispers, even in the non Asian based religions. As for interpretation.... I really don't even want to go there! but what the heck, I have started so I will finish..... sorry for those that were offended by Monty Python but I refer you to the part of the film (Life of Brian , probably!) where Brian loses a shoe etc........."a sign, a sign." was the clamour of the crowd.....no it really was just a shoe. The fanatical will always find something to grasp and misinterpret..........
God, Allah, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha,( is that 6 "Gods" or 1? Do I or they really care?) if they were sitting around a table enjoying a nice beer/wine/orange juice (fill glass according to religion) chewing the metaphorical fat of Pig/calf/Lama or other quadruped (disembowel according to religion) Would they not say ..............." Holy ****! WHAT was the point of all that we went through and tried to teach? We were just giving a set of reaaaaalllly good "Rules" to live life by day to day and those silly little bipeds are killing each other over how best to love each other?..............Return to message heading.........
What was the point?????
For so long as we look backwards we will surely trip over the same logs again and again...............To a better future, for all of our Gods offspring.
Stop bickering, start loving!!!
Argue that and I will poke you in the eye with a sharp stick!
Love and Light
Ian

[Doug]

Toooo funny, but my ski goggles are stick proof, have 'em on right now

Well, I'll have to pull my Trump card and say that the constant argument between the different faiths is really just a lot of ego going on there in the promotion of religion. There are so many rules, regulations, and rituals with religions and the control involved with it is amazing. It's scary to me that people really believe that they are inherently bad, born under a bad sign because they were, ah, umm.. born??? And need to be rescued?? You gotta be kidding me!
If you start believing that you're good, spread the love and keep yourself on solutions, help yourself be better, the world would improve greatly.
Goals work, because you get what you concentrate on Delve into yourselves, you'll be surprised to see what you find... Make it a habit, it'll be easier then.

Lots of Love,

Doug

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Ahmd.

“antichrist” or Dajjaal

Thanks for the quick reply but I am not sure what is going on here. Would you be so kind as to either supply a paraphrasing of it or at least a list of the beings involved in English.

Thanks,

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Ian.

I see all sorts of figures thrown about as to how many of one "Side" have been killed by the other. Frankly my dear I don't give a damn! (insert Clarke Gable Emoticon) No one alive is qualified to judge who started it!! What does matter is that it stops

Couldn't agree more. That's why I asked Ahmd not to bring that stuff up again and we would just discuss the doctrines. Unfortunately mankind won't stop it for a while yet.

As a relatively ignorant genius most of the major religions appear to me to "Preach" love whilst a very distressing percentage of it's followers will kill you if you don't love and pray in the right direction.

Well, keep reading this and the "Bible" thread. Maybe you can "edicate" yourself. Ignorance is only skin deep: Ugly..., now thats to the bone.

On a more serious note; as man has always had a little "spot" that God put there for Him to fill, mankind is always searching for Him. Thus the continuing discussions and the multitude of sites of all religions. There are always differing viewpoints, even within the same religion, but as Hugh Ross said in his book "I believe the Bible to be the word of God as it is the only "Holy Book" which appears to have been written from a viewpoint other than that of a man." As a Christian I also believe that.

The last thing Jesus said as He left for Heaven was "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to all creatures." That should be the mission of all Christians, to spread the "Good News" with love and in all humility, with discussion, not coercion or threats, and certainly not with death threats or violence. You or Amhd or anyone else is free to listen or not, to choose or not.

Jesus also said"Love thy neighbor as thyself."(Matt. 19:19) In Mark 12:29-31 he said the 2 greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor. In John 15:13 he said Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" In John 18:36 he said My kingdom is not of this world: if it were then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:...." He would not have his servants fight, even to save his own life. And of course he laid down his life for you and I and all mankind, the ultimate act of love.So anyone acting outside of the above are mistaken in their actions. Not trying to preach here, just show and explain how Christians are supposed to act. Can't speak for the other religions.

sorry for those that were offended by Monty Python

I was not offended, just thought that t.v. show and movie was stupid.

God, Allah, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha,( is that 6 "Gods" or 1?

Only see one God here: God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Muhammad and Buddha never claimed to be God.

WHAT was the point of all that we went through and tried to teach? We were just giving a set of reaaaaalllly good "Rules" to live life by day to day and those silly little bipeds are killing each other over how best to love each other?

Jesus' point was that He replaced all those "Rules" with "Grace" Instead of "Works".

Argue that and I will poke you in the eye with a sharp stick!
Love and Light

Not exactly a message of love!

I'd like to finish with a favorite quote from a very wise man (can't remember his name at the moment):

"Religion is man's search for God: Christianity is when he finds Him."

Al

[Bagpuss]

Good afternoon Al,
Many thanks for your reply.
I am sure you will appreciate from the general tenor of my first post that it was typed tongue partially in cheek. Without being disrespectful to either party or their views the more I read the more my shoulders sagged as the weight of argument increased.
This is Energeticforum/personaldevelopment and feeling my energies dissipate trawling through the perceived vitriol I think the question needed asking. From a completely personal perspective I am here to learn, we all are or should be. I am sure that you will agree that there is only one omniscient being and the rest of us are all ignorant to a degree.
I am certainly, as indicated above, happy to listen. We were after all given two ears and one mouth and it is a pity many do not use them in proportion.
I stand by what I said concerning "Holy" books. Until we can get the answer to the big question "Life the Universe and Everything" by God, $29.99 from Amazon.com, rather than Douglas Adams, Greek, Arab or other scribes then they are not written in the first person and emanating dogma should be treated with appropriate care.
6 Gods or 1 question was clearly rhetorical. The relevant question, a little more closely defined if you wish, for the purpose of a Christian/ Islam
debate generally and the discourse between yourself and Ahmd in particular is if Jesus and Mohammad were sharing iced tea at the oasis would they not be more than a tad miffed that there were far too many people getting hung up on the semantics of passages in this weighty tome or that and far too few uniting mankind in moving man (and woman!) kind forward on a path to enlightenment???
Religion
noun
1 [C or U] the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship:
Christianity
noun [U]
a religion based on belief in God and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and on the Bible
Cambridge Advanced dictionary. Good enough for me ;o)
A woman has knowledge that a child is hers. A man only has faith.
I would contend that all religion is currently Faith, no matter how strongly and sincerely held a view. I maintain that the underlying message of the major teachings is one of love and tolerance. Over the years the protagonists of one religion or another have far too often espoused love and tolerance and failed, spectacularly, to deliver.
I will listen to my Christian and Muslim friends and acknowledge the right of each to their faith but request that as they can't all be right to leave me out of it. It is not fear of choosing the wrong side but I do believe that assuming there is some form of chat at metaphorical Pearly Gates the omniscient and omnipotent interviewer will be more concerned about how I have treated my fellow beings rather that which scriptures I believed in.
Could we not spend our time more constructively looking for the common ground? Just a thought.
Love and Light
Ian

[ahmd]

Hello friends

As I told earlier

I'm here for one thing only

Search for the right

May Almighty Allah guide all of us the all truth, amen.

To get to the truth

Do not let pride, ego, bias or prejudice affect your judgment as you review the pages.

If you do not free your mind and heart from these obstructions, then it will be near to impossible to see the light of truth to which we will be referring so often.


For example:

If I die now

Do you go to heaven or to the fire?


Therefore, we must debate who is right and who is wrong ?!?!?!


In this life we are friends !


But Do are we in the afterlife with some in heaven?

(The question here)

Any religion is true?

To see an example

Biblical Contradictions

Bible Islam - A List of Biblical Contradictions


On the other hand, to see the QURAN there is no one error

He is from more than 1400 years

THE QURAN

Quran Means "Recitation"

The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).

Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.


Memorized by Millions - Entirely

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.


God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).



Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).


Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly



The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challanges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.


Scientific Miracles in Quran


The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).


Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the " Miracle of Science in Quran "



References :

Bible Compared to Quran

[ahmd]

Hi Ahmd.



Thanks for the quick reply but I am not sure what is going on here. Would you be so kind as to either supply a paraphrasing of it or at least a list of the beings involved in English.

Thanks,

Hi ANTIQUER

Meaning of the Word Maseeh (Messiah)


There are over fifty scholarly comments on the meaning of the word Maseeh (Messiah). They said that this word is applied both to the Truthful One [True Messiah, i.e., ‘Eesa (Jesus) peace be upon him ] and to the misleading liar [the “antichrist” or Dajjaal]. The Messiah is the Truthful One, ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary), peace be upon him the Messiah of guidance, who healed those who were born blind and lepers, and brought the dead to life by Allah’s Leave. The false messiah (al‐maseeh al‐dajjaal) is the liar who leads people astray, the messiah of misguidance who will tempt people by means of the signs that he is given, such as bringing down rain, reviving the earth to bring forth vegetation, and other “miracles.”
So Allah has created two messiahs, who are opposites of one another. The scholars said that the reason why the Dajjaal is called maseeh (a “messiah”) is because one of his eyes is mamsooh (lit. “wiped”; smooth or abraded, i.e., he will be blind or defective in one eye). Or it was said that it is because he will survey or travel throughout the earth (yamsah) in forty days… The former view is more correct, because of what was said in the hadeeth narrated by Muslim (no. 5221) from Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said: ‘The Dajjaal will be blind ( mamsooh) in one eye, and between his eyes will be written ‘kaafir’…’”.



Meaning of the Word Dajjaal

The word Dajjaal is taken from the expression “Dajala al‐ba’eer (he smeared the camel)”, referring to when they covered it with tar. The root dajala means to mix. The word dajala is used to mean deliberately confusing matters and being vague and ambiguous, The Dajjaal is the one who speaks in vagaries, who tells many lies and deceives many people. The word “Dajjaal” became a title given to the lying, one‐eyed, false messiah. The Dajjaal is so called because he will conceal his kufr from the people by lying to them, deceiving them and confusing them.


If you want to know more about the Antichrist Read this book


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http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en...he_Dajjaal.pdf

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http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en...he_Dajjaal.doc

[Aaron]

jinn

Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).

Hi Ahmd, is the jinn the same reference to djini or something similar in West Africa? There are stories of them having supernatural powers, etc... Is that the same?

[Bagpuss]

Good afternoon Ahmd,
As I posted previously in my chat with Al would it not be more constructive to look for some common ground?
At the moment, if I understand your arguments correctly, my reading of the Quran, or Mus-haf, in English has been pretty much a waste of time. Why have none of the current 1.5 billion Muslims nor any of their ancestors since Muhhamad been able to provide accurate translations, with the help of Allah?
The logical conclusion is that if I do not Learn Arabic then I may not be following the teachings sufficiently accurately and am as a result doomed to Hellfire for eternity, which seems a bit of a rough deal.
This is particulary so as there are many human's on the planet still leading honest decent lives in remote areas who have not even heard of the Quran. Humanity also started many years before it's message was written. Were they too all cast into the fire? This does not seem very compassionate nor indeed logical. Why would an all powerful deity place humanity all over the planet but only give a handfull the tools of salvation?
I am also struggling with a few other tings that have been posted. No other religion respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does? Well I think one or two Christians may not be able to swallow that whole. They may also be a bit put out by you telling them that they are the greatest evil on this Earth. A little attention to cummunication and people skills would improve chances of being heard.
To Divinity and beyond
Your friend
Buzz

[ahmd]

Hi Ahmd, is the jinn the same reference to djini or something similar in West Africa? There are stories of them having supernatural powers, etc... Is that the same?

Hi Aaron

Praise be to Allaah.

The jinn are part of the creation of Allaah. He created them from fire before He created Adam, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud.

And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire”

[al-Hijr 15:26-27]

Just as Adam had descendents, so Iblees had descendents too, as Allaah says of Iblees (interpretation of the meaning):

“Will you then take him (Iblees) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zaalimoon (polytheists, and wrongdoers, etc)”

[al-Kahf 18:50]

Allaah created the jinn and mankind to worship Him. Whoever obeys Him will enter Paradise and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell:

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone).

I seek not any provision from them (i.e. provision for themselves or for My creatures) nor do I ask that they should feed Me (i.e. feed themselves or My creatures).

Verily, Allaah is the All Provider, Owner of Power, the Most Strong”

[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56 – interpretation]

All of the jinn, like mankind, are accountable. Among them there are believers and kaafirs, those who obey Allaah and those who disobey Him, as Allaah tells us that they said:

“‘There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary; we are groups having different ways (religious sects)’”

[al-Jinn 72:11 – interpretation of the meaning]

The jinn will be rewarded or punished in the Hereafter just like mankind. Allaah tells us that they said:

“‘And of us some are Muslims (who have submitted to Allaah, after listening to this Qur’aan), and of us some are Al-Qaasitoon (disbelievers those who have deviated from the Right Path)’. And whosoever has embraced Islam (i.e. has become a Muslim by submitting to Allaah), then such have sought the Right Path.’

And as for the Qaasitoon (disbelievers who deviated from the Right Path), they shall be firewood for Hell”

[al-Jinn 72:14-15 – interpretation of the meaning]

The jinn and mankind will all be brought to account on the Day of Resurrection before the Lord of the Worlds. None of them will be able to postpone that or flee from it.

“O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass beyond (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allaah)!”

[al-Rahmaan 55:33 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever among the jinn or mankind tries to flee from the Reckoning will never be able to do so, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“There will be sent against you both, smokeless flames of fire and (molten) brass, and you will not be able to defend yourselves

[al-Rahmaan 55:35]

When the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was in Makkah, a group of the jinn came to him; they heard the Qur’aan and were moved by it:

“And (remember) when We sent towards you (Muhammad) a group (three to ten persons) of the jinn, (quietly) listening to the Qur’aan. When they stood in the presence thereof, they said: “Listen in silence!” And when it was finished, they returned to their people, as warners”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:29 – interpretation of the meaning]

Some of the jinn believed when they heard the Qur’aan, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinn listened (to this Qur’aan). They said: “Verily, we have heard a wonderful Recitation (this Qur’aan)!

It guides to the Right Path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join (in worship) anything with our Lord (Allaah)”’”

[al-Jinn 72:1-2]

Both Adam and Iblees fell into sin, but Adam regretted it and repented, and Allaah accepted his repentance:

“Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful”

[al-Baqarah 2:37 – interpretation of the meaning]

But Iblees refused and was arrogant, so he was one of the disbelievers:

“And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves before Adam.’ And they prostrated except Iblees (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allaah)”

[al-Baqarah 2:34 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever disobeys Allaah out of pride and arrogance, among the jinn and mankind, is following the Shaytaan and will be gathered with him in the Fire of Hell if he does not repent, as Allaah said to Iblees:

“(Allaah) said: ‘The truth is — and the truth I say

That I will fill Hell with you [Iblees (Satan)] and those of them (mankind) that follow you, together’”

[Saad 38:84-85 – interpretation of the meaning]

The friends of the Most Merciful (Allaah), among the jinn and mankind, co-operate in righteousness and piety, and the friends of the Shaytaan, among the jinn and mankind, co-operate in sin and transgression. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies — Shayaateen (devils) among mankind and jinn, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it; so leave them alone with their fabrications”

[al-An’aam 6:112]

Based on this, we cannot say anything about them except that which has been narrated in the texts of Islam; anything other than that is hidden from us. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And follow not (O man, i.e., say not, or do not, or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart of each of those ones will be questioned (by Allaah)”

[al-Isra’ 17:36]