Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,
I've been out of the country since November 2nd doing some volunteer work in a Spiritual Organization that help the underprivileged in South Africa.
In my spare time I continue my research. I've been experimenting with Coil Flyback Feedback since I believe it could greatly improve electric motor efficiency and could possibly be applied in transformers which would make a solid state device (no moving parts).
I have made a crude permanent magnet motor (pulse motor) to which I demonstrate the energy saving effect once you capture and re-input the flyback to the pulse motor.
I was originally trying to send it back to the same coil but I lack electronics skills to do it correctly. Isolation of the power source, coil, MOSFET switches are a pain. Timing is another problem. After over 30 hours and all kinds of blown devices I had to come up with an idea that didn't need all these components just for proof of concept.
I'll let the more talented in electronics come up with a circuit if they feel the pursuit is worthy after seeing my simple proof of concept video.

When first trying to make the feedback circuit I was using a hard drive disk platter and bearing assembly as magnet rotor but when I couldn't get it to work I had to come up with another idea. What I came up with was to mount the HD plater to a shaft of a 12vdc motor I salvaged from an old VCR and send the flyback to it which would Isolate it from the coil and the energy should assist the pulse motor to turn faster.
Well the results are better then I expected!... the pulse motor goes from 200ma with a 6.24vdc input with no flyback to 50ma @ 6.37vdc with flyback feedback at the same RPM.
In the video demo I use my oscilloscope to match up the timing (RPM) before and after. So don't go crazy on the scope shots you see in the video as it was used mostly for that purpose. The probe is across the coil. The scope data is not stable as there are to many peeks to display correct Frequency, Period and so on. So I made some extra scope shots (below) with a standard voltage and current setup through a 1 Ohm resistor. First shot is No flyback feedback with input at 6.24vdc @ 200ma and the next is with flyback feedback feedback at 6.37vdc @ 50ma. just like it was done in the video. The rotor has 4 magnets so with the new scope shots below the Frequency is 110Hz so we divide it by 4 (magnets) = 27.5 turns per second x 60 (seconds in a minute) = 1,650 RPM the magnet rotor is turning.

Link to video demo: Motor Coil Flyback Feedback Effect test 1 - YouTube

I have not seen or noticed any topic on recirculation flyback back in a motor, so to me it looks promising and would like the input of those who are knowledgeable. If I'm missing something or not fully understanding the present electric motors please feel free to enlighten me.
I'm also very open to circuit suggestions that could send the flyback back to the coil but in the same current direction the On pulse did. This could be done during the off time and that energy could be part of the next pulse which should greatly assist the motor.

So to be clear on what I would like the motor and circuit to do, is for the magnet to naturally attract to the coils core (no power), once at center of the core the coil is hit with the energy of the flyback collected in a capacitor of the previous pulse and the balance to top off the cap can be regulated coming from the battery or energy input.

I welcome any other suggestions

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Jetijs]

Hi Luc, cool video.
You say you kave not seen any energy recycling circuits here. What about the attraction motor circuit? I mean this one:


I used this on the attraction motor to collect the inductive spike back to the front side capacitor. The blue lines are purely fro the recycling part. You use bifilar coils where one strand is used for powering and other is used for recycling. Works really well, I could get up to 75% reduction of power consumption if everything was tuned right, very similar to your results. Just that I did not have any magnets in my motor.
Here is a simpler example:


This also worked well. I used this to pulse a coil with an iron rod as a core and a strong magnet attached to it. Without recycling the circuit drew a certain amount of power and could not repel the magnet and lift the core up. As the recycling was switched on, the core lifted the magnet very high and the power to do this was way less than without the recycling, so more work was done at less power. Maybe this is a circuit you can try?
BTW, this is a scope shot of the current wave form taken across a shunt on the power side:

And this is the current on the recovery side:


So you see that the area below the wave is smaller in the recovery side, nevertheless it is a reasonable amount, this means lots of the energy is recycled minus the resistance losses.

Jetijs

[gotoluc]

Thanks Jetijs for the quick reply.

If there was someone that did this already it would be you

Thanks for also posting your circuit. I 'm not all that good on understanding a circuits by looking at it. I can build it if I had the components but I only have 555 timers available. could they be used instead of the UCC37321 Edit: I see you added a simple circuit version.

Thanks for sharing

Oh, if you had 75% energy saving then what was the efficiency of the motor by doing this?... isn't a motor around 80% efficient? What kept it from going over the 100%

Luc

[Jetijs]

I never did the mechanical load tests, but judging from the load I could apply with my hand and comparing it to a conventional motor, I doubt there was a good efficiency. Electrically it works just like a charm, but mechanically the torque was not what I expected. So I built a better motor with smaller air gap (0.08mm) that is the limit I could machine, but this presented another problem, now the coil inductance changed way too much as the rotor was realigning with the stator and the recovery was very small - 5-10% maybe. But again, that was with no magnets, just iron stator and iron rotor, like this:


Maybe with magnets the inductance change is not so critical as the air gap varies.
As for the simplified circuit, you don't need those S1 and S2 shunts, nor the R resistance and not even the amp meters. Throw those away and it becomes as simple as it gets. The amp meters lets you see how much current is drawn form the power supply and how much is actually circulating in the circuit. With the recovery active, the right amp meter will always show greater numbers than the left one. With no recovery they both will show the same. There is a sweet spot on duty cycle. For best efficiencies it must be just long enough for the core to fully magnetize, everything longer than that will not be recoverable, but on the other hand, the bigger the duty cycle the more torque. You have to play around with it. The shunts will let you see the currents on both the power and the recovery side, use a scope. Preferably with insulated probe grounds, otherwise you wont see both traces at the same time since the common ground will short everything out. So if that is not an option, just look at each shunt separately.

If I used the circuit on the motor, I had to adjust the duty cycle, because at the duty cycle that gave me the best used:recovered energy ratio, there was very little torque and the motor could barely turn. So I had to sacrifice some recovery to increase the torque.
Hope this helps.
Good luck!
Jetijs

[mbrownn]

Using a Universal motor out of an angle grinder I got around 17% recovery at best and as these motors have poor mechanical efficiency I had no success either. I was bipolar switching mechanically.

I have put some of this info on this thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lindemann.html

[joefr]

Hi Luc

You can try this Pulse motor No Hall mosfet driver which I made with help of Gyula.

You just spin the rotor with hand and adjust potenciometers for best efficiency.
You can collect spikes to cap. You can reverse the output BEMF diode and put cap on positive pin of the coil.

You can look this video where I collect the BEMF and discharge the cap to load:
No Hall Pulse Motor Mosfet Driver Test - YouTube

Here is the schematic:


JoeFR