Use for the Tesla Switch

[Jbignes5]

Stevan C., can chime in here, but when you send a HV pulse into a battery, it will do something. That "something" is usually show a bump in potential for a short bit while it "soaks" up that HV pulse. The higher that "bump" is, the higher the internal impedance, and the lower it is, then the lower the impedance. This is not the same thing as finding the internal impedance exactly, but a bigger resistance (i.e. internal impedance) will yield a higher potential bump in the battery, and then it will come to a rest, hopefully higher than before after enough of these HV pulses. As the impedance is lowered by these HV pulses, these bumps get smaller and smaller until they is only a few milli-volt rise in the "bump". This is my observation at least.

On a really bad battery, I've seen the voltage rise on the battery measured with just a volt meter to approach 50 or 100V. "Good" batteries do not exhibit this behavior.

When I'm talking about HV pulses, it is like 100-300V for a super short time, just enough time for the capacitor to discharge into the battery.

Leroy

P.S. Don't know if it is possible to detect this, but it should be. I do not believe that a PIC controller can detect this, as it may take too much time for a "capture" and decode of the ADC. A comparator could do it really fast though.

Ok so a comparator could do for the "echo". I realized my mistake to reference the pic controller but the same type of setup could be made that was auto sensing in the same type of programmable controller.
One question I have is how would one change the pulse to facilitate a max charge based on a known impedance. Would that be possible to facilitate that thru longer or shorter duty cycle or frequency. Since JB's charger is working in low frequency ranges 2-20 hz it would seem to me that would be enough time to generate a response and modify the pulse on the next pulse.

Has anyone working on these systems like the Tesla Switch noticed any changes to the batteries? Bearden actually talks about pulling energy from the substrate of the battery? Upon pulling that energy it takes hours to replace the energy from a normal charger. Has this been reproduced? If this has been reproduced what effect does it have to not replace the energy extracted? Natural processes aside like equalization from external energy (environmental) does extration of these energies thru the TS make it dangerous or have strange environmental effects that have been reported by some experimenters?

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

[QUOTE=nvisser;84215]

I have tried something simular, but now have modified the code to try your above theroy Vissie;

Cool man.

Not to much luck on the first go round, after 2.5 hrs on the switch;

Start
Batt 1 - 12.34
Batt 2 - 12.44
Batt 3 - 12.34
Batt 4 - 12.26

Finish
Batt 1 - 12.2
Batt 2 - 12.45
Batt 3 - 12.21
Batt 4 - 12.2

Overall loss. I'll continue to tweak.

Bit's

[Jbignes5]

Jbignes5 @ Jib I do believe that something could be built along those lines.

But first you gotta kinda have an idea of the reaction. If the batteries charging proccess stall whats next.

I set up a test that I have been running on six batterries in series. All averaging out at 12.20 +- volt
I took a standard power supply and put a relay on the HOT end. I set it up to pulse the charge into the batteries.
So the result were as follows.

They quikly showed charge from 12.20 to 12.40 within an hour. I was pulsing 500ms on 500ms off.
Then it took them 30 minutes to go from 12.40 to 12.43 were they stalled. For 15 minutes the charge shown on the battery did not go higher than that.
So I Increased the time. 1 second on 1 second off. They rose to 12.66 and stalled again.
So I increased the time again. 1.5 seconds.
Funny thing was they went up to 12.67 and stalled again. So I went to 2 seconds, they went to 12.68 and would not go. I went to 3 seconds, they did not go.
So I went down. 250 millisecond pulses. They are now while I type showing 12.75 and going.

This kind of give me the feeling that as the voltage of the battery rises less amperage is need to charge them. Quiker pulses not longer.

Anyway I'll report when they hit 13.5 tonight and we'll see that pattern remains constant.

Next I'll test the same charging pattern except with a discharge of equal proportion, and see what gain I can get from that.

Cheers
Matt

Well thats why the "controller" is needed to monitor in real time what the results are and modify the pulse to resonate with the changing impedance. It sounds like as you come into resonance you quickly fall out of resonance and the battery refuses to "grow". It's like exercising. The more you use it correctly the stronger it becomes. Because most of the TS systems are static they tend to grow fast then poop out. Make it dynamic and with repeated work outs it will get stronger.
Some of the reports from the company that tested it out led me to believe that they had the system running and slowly ramping the batteries up or "conditioning" the batteries to a much higher potential. Then they ran it in the final test to report the results. This made me think that they sucked all the energy from the substrate and that turned it into a conduit for this energy sucking from the much denser environmental energy around it (battery). Tesla believed that this energy when used flowed like a fluid. If the batteries are a conduit after conditioning and they can become strong conduits then what kind of effect are we gonna get when the batteries have been conditioned to the point that when they can effectively remove more energy then it takes for it to flow back?
I have heard stories about the Ronald Brandt effect. This effect was of a dampening field around his car. Weather it is true or not who knows but with Bedini also having reports of batteries not acting right for hours after runing for extended periods it lends creedance to the arguement that this is like borrowing the energy. With the payment being rather on the weird side as it equalizes back to normal state. Or being like Bearden talks about filling the holes back up.
My concern in this area really stems from mans never ending thirst for energy. As we build these devices that seemingly suck the energy from the environment we must be concerned with the safe use of these technologies while we build these. But I digress. Continue.

[nvisser]

[QUOTE=Bit's-n-Bytes;84237]

Not to much luck on the first go round, after 2.5 hrs on the switch;

Start
Batt 1 - 12.34
Batt 2 - 12.44
Batt 3 - 12.34
Batt 4 - 12.26

Finish
Batt 1 - 12.2
Batt 2 - 12.45
Batt 3 - 12.21
Batt 4 - 12.2
Overall loss. I'll continue to tweak.
Bit's

Maybe we should limit the current with 2 lamps after all. Did you try lower duty cycle to 10msec to see if it charge?

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

[QUOTE=nvisser;84250]

Maybe we should limit the current with 2 lamps after all. Did you try lower duty cycle to 10msec to see if it charge?

I did. I have put the lamps back in, but am making some repairs due to injured MJL's.

Bit's

[nvisser]

O S.... I forgot you dont have transistors in the bottom and no loads can be fatal. Im sorry

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

O S.... I forgot you dont have transistors in the bottom and no loads can be fatal. Im sorry

Back in biz, 2 fatal and 2 wounded.

Bit's

[Matthew Jones]

I followed through with the test I was running. I also started to charge another bank.
The pattern held true on the first bank. I discussed it above.
I eventually had to take them as low 100ms on/off. This topped them out at 13.20. Although they went up to 14.00volt before I shut them off.

I did second test. It pretty much acted the same, but to get them to climb after stalling I I just gave them about a 5 minute burst off 100on/of, then switched back to 1 second on/off.
This is also working.

I am going to setup a charge discharge test this afternoon with 2 banks. And see what the reaction is.

I gotta say I love this little micro controller. I have been able to build just about anything I wanted so far. I personally owe BITS a Thank You for pointing them out.

Cheers
Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I followed through with the test I was running. I also started to charge another bank.
The pattern held true on the first bank. I discussed it above.
I eventually had to take them as low 100ms on/off. This topped them out at 13.20. Although they went up to 14.00volt before I shut them off.

I did second test. It pretty much acted the same, but to get them to climb after stalling I I just gave them about a 5 minute burst off 100on/of, then switched back to 1 second on/off.
This is also working.

I am going to setup a charge discharge test this afternoon with 2 banks. And see what the reaction is.

I gotta say I love this little micro controller. I have been able to build just about anything I wanted so far. I personally owe BITS a Thank You for pointing them out.

Cheers
Matt

Thank You Matt.

Bit's

[ldissing]

I followed through with the test I was running. ...
Matt

@Matt,

I think you said you were using a conventional charger, what what the amperage setting on that charger? You also said you connected the relay to the HOT end, I assume you mean you connected the relay between the positive of the charger and the positive of the battery(s). What would happen if you connected the relay to the negative of the batteries and the negative of the charger? What did you do with the spike generated from the coil (relay)?

Thank you for the information on your tests. Quite nice!

Our TS situation is a little different with a "load" in there. But that is basically what is happening in the three battery test I think. A higher voltage pulsed over the 3rd battery with the load limiting the amount of current able to flow., which is why I was asking about amperage of the charger. We know that the more amperage out of a conventional charger, the faster (up to a limit) the batteries will charge, but if two much amperage is delivered, then we are causing more sulphation and heat on the plates of the batteries under charge.

After reading the battery bible (I did not "study" it, I read it pretty fast), I tend to agree with what you are finding with the pulsing of the conventional charger and that less current is needed as the batteries rise in voltage too, it was a very astute observation and test on your part.

So, ideas on how to translate this into what we are doing with the TS?

Do any of JBs chargers utilize a temperature probe for monitoring heat being generated in the batteries? He is pulsing 7-15amps with his solar chargers every 500ms (30amps over a 2 blips of a second = roughly 1/2 amp over a full second), kind of flies in the face of charging without amperage I would think, but it is pulsed and not continuous which gives the batteries some time to relax between pulses. Works kind of like my little battery minder charger, except that it does not give nearly as much relaxation time between pulses?

Leroy

P.S. My posts start out small and then I keep adding crap to them. I will one day be able to control myself, I hope.

[ausev]

Newbie wants to learn

Thanks Peter. I was wondering when that was coming.

Anyway. I got switch thats going and its doing good.

2 runs now, one at 1 hour the other is running now. Both at 2 hertz.
I am using Solid State Relays for the switch's. These are nice.
I gave up on a building an oscilator and went to radio shack and bot a Parralax Stamp2 Home work board. I got to say I was embarrassed to buy this thing but now that I did I wish I had a year ago. I set it up to drive the relays.
The switching costs cause it uses a 9 volt battery, but I am working on that. Any suggestions would be helpful.

The first run got 1 hour of runtime out of a motor No loss. The batterries snapped back at 20 minute.
The second is going now, I'll run it 12 hours. The P. Stamp 2 chip will shut the system off for me. But from looking at the batteries they have not dropped, below startup voltage. So I am pretty sure of the results.

I have found in my load a similiar wave to the one Mr John drawed. The best pictures are at YouTube - GNwave2.MPG.
The Surges have a difference of about 3 times that of what the motor usually runs on the scope and the spikes range between 60 and 80 volt.

This is another flick YouTube - GNWave.MPG.
I shut half the system off for second so you could see the wave real clear. It has some funny Shapes.

MR John If you get a chance to watch them could you let me know if this is what we are looking for. Thanks

Here some shots of my pile of wire.
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/TS1.JPG
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/TS2.JPG
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/TS3.JPG
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/TS4.JPG

Cheers
Matt

Hi Matt,

I am a complete newbie here, I want to power an electric car with the tesla switch circuit.

Congratulations on getting this solid state version going.

I have been studying this forum for a while now and you seem to have come up with the best solution so far.

I would like to replicate this and have purchased the parts I can see in your pictures but the wiring is hard to work out.

Could you please post a circuit diagram of your solution for me so I can give this a go?

Regards,

AusEv

[nvisser]

Hey Bits
I hope you got your switch functional again.
As I am still waiting for my picaxe chips I cannot test all the ideas I got
I am posting another mod on Bits diagram. I just add 2 large caps and then the switching is important.
It does not use the bipolar switch and is very easy to implement if you got a pic pulser
As Q1 switch on the cap will charge up. Q1 switch off and Q10 switch on and discharge the cap to the right hand parallel batteries.
Then Q2 switch on charge the 2nd cap.Q2 switches off and Q9 switch on and dump the cap.
That gives you no changes to the circuit. Only add the caps and of coarse the switching.
I did not specify pulse times as we have to see how long it takes to charge the cap up to 22-23V.
You still have to keep the loads to prevent the short in the bottom as there are no transistors. I don’t like the no transistors in the bottom idea as it looks to me as if we load the bottom batteries with the load or short it with no load and the bottom battery are actually driving the load when the batteries goes in series. Does anybody agrees with me on this one

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hey Bits
I hope you got your switch functional again.
As I am still waiting for my picaxe chips I cannot test all the ideas I got
I am posting another mod on Bits diagram. I just add 2 large caps and then the switching is important.
It does not use the bipolar switch and is very easy to implement if you got a pic pulser
As Q1 switch on the cap will charge up. Q1 switch off and Q10 switch on and discharge the cap to the right hand parallel batteries.
Then Q2 switch on charge the 2nd cap.Q2 switches off and Q9 switch on and dump the cap.
That gives you no changes to the circuit. Only add the caps and of coarse the switching.
I did not specify pulse times as we have to see how long it takes to charge the cap up to 22-23V.
You still have to keep the loads to prevent the short in the bottom as there are no transistors. I don’t like the no transistors in the bottom idea as it looks to me as if we load the bottom batteries with the load or short it with no load and the bottom battery are actually driving the load when the batteries goes in series. Does anybody agrees with me on this one

Yes, I am up and running again. Thanks for this diagram Vissie, this is exactly what I was playing with. Not sure if the loads will drain the caps. We may have to install some steering diodes.

Bit's

[nvisser]

Yes, I am up and running again. Thanks for this diagram Vissie, this is exactly what I was playing with. Not sure if the loads will drain the caps. We may have to install some steering diodes.

Bit's

It is about the same as the scalar charger. On that one it was no problem to discharge the cap to the battery with a load. As according to JB we should use big diodes and loads on the 2 transistor switch I don`t think discharging will be a problem when using high wattage 12v bulbs.
Glad you like it!

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

It is about the same as the scalar charger. On that one it was no problem to discharge the cap to the battery with a load. As according to JB we should use big diodes and loads on the 2 transistor switch I don`t think discharging will be a problem when using high wattage 12v bulbs.
Glad you like it!

It's hooked up and functioning. Here is the code;



do

high 4
pause 600
low 4
high 5
pause 60
low 5
high 6
pause 600
low 6
high 7
pause 60
low 7
inc b1
loop while b1 < 20

I'll let you know what the results are. The caps are 10,000uf 35V.

Bit's