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  • All transistor TS

    Hi nvisser,

    It is interesting that you should post about that circuit as I am just about ready to go back to it. I thought I had given at least one report on it. Sorry if I forgot. I did get that circuit to run all the optos and the output driver chip on the picaxe18x project board all night long (over 8 hours) and it did not run down the batteries even as much as .01 volts. They read exactly the same the next morning as they did when I started the test the night before. The picaxe18x project board allows you to separate the output driver chip from the pic chip so you can use a higher voltage to get the optos to turn fully on and thus also your main transistors. So the only power outside the TS was the 3 AA batteries that were powering the pic chip itself. By the way it must use a small amount of current as I have been using those 3 AA batteries for weeks now and they are still strong.

    After a couple of weeks of trial and error (mostly error) I was never able to get the batteries to actually go up in charge although I could run different loads on them without them going down if I was careful about my on time and left enough off time. At that point I decided to order some schottkey diodes and try a slightly modified version of the circuit with all the diodes. I have not had any better luck getting the batteries to actually charge with that circuit either. I did learn something about the picaxe18x chip though. I can use a pulsout command to get an on time as short as .01 ms. I am still learning about the picaxe18x chip. By using this command and an off time of 100 to 500 ms I can get the batteries to bounce back a little higher than they were and then they stop. I think they are just rebounding from being used although I usually let them rest to stabilize before I start any new tests.

    John K. posted some interesting info about how to determine load size for the TS, so I think I am just about ready to go back to the circuit without any diodes. I will then set up the pic for a real slow time and take the measurements John K. has suggested. After getting the load right I am going to try and use the pulsout command to get very short on times and vary the off times to see if I can get charging. I am pretty sure that without the diode drops we can use a larger load and with the short pulses maybe get some charging.

    Oh I almost forgot. The way I ran the TS all night on it own power was to use a bridge as the load and charge a 21,500 mf cap and run the circuit off the cap. I think I used about 25 ms on, then 100 ms off, then switch sides and repeat.


    Hopes this helps some, Carroll
    Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone.

    Comment


    • Somthing New

      I started running an older 24 volt setup with the Stamp chip I got, this morning. I was running 5 minute on time per side.
      The results were good but the thing I am noticing is the behavior of the batteries when run like that.

      I'll run one side into the other for 5 minutes, then switch. The bank that WAS discharging and is now charging will take the charge real rapidly for about
      30 - 40 seconds then starts to resist the load.
      It is so pronounced you can hear it in the motor, it slows down ,and you can watch it in the voltage charge on the batteries, they do not start growing in charge ,significantly, until this point.

      The kicker is the batteries on each side have a different time at which this action happens.

      I ran the thing by hand for about an hour waiting for it to happen so I could switch the direction. (I wrote a little subroutine tied to a button, I love IC's)
      I the problem came when I started switching just after the effect stopped. Soon the effect went away. I had to run longer than the effect usually by about 2 minutes or so.

      I know everybody is thinking in seconds but you may want to try minutes and see if you can get the same effect or if I am stuck with some anomaly.

      I believe it to be the reversal of the outgoing Ion's changing direction to re saturate the fluid, but I am not sure.

      I am going to try it with some bigger batteries soon as I can. I'll do a little more testing and see if I can balance the batteries a bit.

      Cheers
      Matt

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
        (I wrote a little subroutine tied to a button, I love IC's)

        Cheers
        Matt
        Great job Matt! Did I read this right?

        Comment


        • Tesla Switch

          Just an update...

          I have my 6 transistor D-TS running, each with optos and the diode and capacitor.

          I'm messing with different loads still and testing my theory on the bench.

          So far the batteries (7Ah gel-cell junk) are still losing charge, but the interesting thing is that they "appear" to be conditioning themselves. I remember mentioning this to JB a couple of weeks ago, he recommended just letting them see what they would do so I'll do that.

          B1 & B3 seem to be pretty stable, but B2 & B4 are dropping down to under 10V at times and sometimes B3 drops down to ~7.5V. Occasionally they jump back up. This is similar to what Matt just posted in what he is seeing. I'm switching sides every 60 seconds, but may stretch this out longer.

          My experience with the 3 battery test is telling me to run longer times as JB did recommend that we wait until the battery gets to 14.5V before switching.

          I may even try upgrading each battery from 12V to 24V and see what that does.

          All fun and games...

          John K.
          http://teslagenx.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by citfta View Post
            Hi nvisser,
            Oh I almost forgot. The way I ran the TS all night on it own power was to use a bridge as the load and charge a 21,500 mf cap and run the circuit off the cap. I think I used about 25 ms on, then 100 ms off, then switch sides and repeat.
            Hopes this helps some, Carroll
            I recall JB stating on one of the diagrams that you do not get charging in AC mode. It said "transformer AC. No charging in AC mode."
            That is when the transformer is connected directly to the 2 negatives. I am not sure if that also applies for a full bridge connected like that.
            Maybe that is the reason for not charging.
            He stated "charging in this mode ONLY" where only the two bulbs are in circuit
            I would suggest using a separate battery for your pic till you get the TS to charge. Once that happens the sky is the limit!!
            The shotkey diodes only got a voltage drop of 0.2v over them. So I don`t think we gain very much without them. But the way you used your parallel transistors makes the diodes unnecessary and the 2 parallel batteries will not balance their potentials out.

            Comment


            • Tesla Switch

              Here I go again, quoting myself....

              I couldn't handle the suspense any longer.

              My gut (beer infested ) tells me I wasn't going anywhere so I pimped my D-TS to have all four batts at 24V...

              I now have just one side on permanently to see where the voltage will go. After 4 hours the high side has only lost 0.4V per battery, while the low side has gained ~3V per battery. Too early to tell what the wash-up will be, but it looks promising.

              John K.

              Originally posted by John_K View Post
              Just an update...

              I have my 6 transistor D-TS running, each with optos and the diode and capacitor.

              I'm messing with different loads still and testing my theory on the bench.

              So far the batteries (7Ah gel-cell junk) are still losing charge, but the interesting thing is that they "appear" to be conditioning themselves. I remember mentioning this to JB a couple of weeks ago, he recommended just letting them see what they would do so I'll do that.

              B1 & B3 seem to be pretty stable, but B2 & B4 are dropping down to under 10V at times and sometimes B3 drops down to ~7.5V. Occasionally they jump back up. This is similar to what Matt just posted in what he is seeing. I'm switching sides every 60 seconds, but may stretch this out longer.

              My experience with the 3 battery test is telling me to run longer times as JB did recommend that we wait until the battery gets to 14.5V before switching.

              I may even try upgrading each battery from 12V to 24V and see what that does.

              All fun and games...

              John K.
              http://teslagenx.com

              Comment


              • JohnK wrote ...I now have just one side on permanently to see where the voltage will go. After 4 hours the high side has only lost 0.4V per battery, while the low side has gained ~3V per battery. Too early to tell what the wash-up will be, but it looks promising.
                Thats the kind ratio's I was seeing. I was running 5 amp hour batteries. My bridge was showing 16 volt after the load was applied.
                I wasn't using 4 24volt bank though, I used 2 banks of 3 (36volt/12volt).
                They did not hang on through the night though. They got low pretty quik.


                I am going to the battery store today and get some real big ones. Long runs like that will do well with an inverter. Heck enough of them and an inverter may act like a light bulb.

                Cheers
                Matt

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
                  Thats the kind ratio's I was seeing. I was running 5 amp hour batteries. My bridge was showing 16 volt after the load was applied.
                  I wasn't using 4 24volt bank though, I used 2 banks of 3 (36volt/12volt).
                  They did not hang on through the night though. They got low pretty quik.


                  I am going to the battery store today and get some real big ones. Long runs like that will do well with an inverter. Heck enough of them and an inverter may act like a light bulb.

                  Cheers
                  Matt
                  @Matt,

                  You are still using relays to run the switch or are you now running with transistors?

                  @John K.,

                  Are you seeing the transistors getting hot with the long "on" times? Or is the load small enough that they do not get hot?

                  Leroy

                  Comment


                  • Tesla Switch

                    Hi Lero,

                    The load is small enough that they don't get hot (2 x #47 in series). The high side transistors are a couple of degrees above room temp.

                    One of the batteries on the high side lost 2V in the last couple of hours, must have a weak cell. I'll let everything rest overnight and pick it up in the morning.

                    BTW, the potential differenc between the high side and the low side is ~20V. There's 17V drop over the load, so that leaves about 3V left for charging.

                    Have a nice day!

                    John K.

                    Originally posted by ldissing View Post
                    @Matt,

                    @John K.,

                    Are you seeing the transistors getting hot with the long "on" times? Or is the load small enough that they do not get hot?

                    Leroy
                    http://teslagenx.com

                    Comment


                    • This old setup I have uses mechanical latching relays. I get no heat, in fact the relays are slightly colder than the room temperature, but thats not uncommon in this house. I measured the temperature of a few other things in the room they were also cooler.

                      I want to play with the same setup using transistors, but I fear the fires I will start with MJL's, they do not like me.

                      Matt

                      Comment


                      • Okay JB

                        @JB,

                        I can see the spike before the decline in the wave. I've posted a drawing of what I'm seeing, but the real question is, How do we get it to do it all the time? Sometimes, it does not happen, sometimes it does. It isn't real easy to catch it either. I've seen about 9 different waveforms, but the one below is the one that normally has a spike, although not all the time.

                        I'm using SCRs for the serial switching, and both top and bottom transistos as in the original schematics, if that makes any difference on the waveform.

                        Thanks,

                        Leroy

                        P.S. Spike is very narrow, sometimes the waveforms have spikes to the downside as well, but not as big as the one on the top normally. The lower part of the wave is deeper than the spike is tall. And I'm using 60W 12V bulbs right now when I see this waveform.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • Sg3524

                          At last I took some time to built the SG3524 flip flop on a piece of vero board. Never tried it as everybody had trouble with low frequencies.
                          Build like the diagram from JB- fix for SG- it runs down to One pulse on each side every 1 sec and the duty cycle can go down to nothing.
                          I will try it out on the full 6 transistor switch

                          Comment


                          • Back in business, hope to perform extensive tests over the weekend..



                            Got some funny scope shots. Weird, might be a malfunction??



                            Here's the video



                            YouTube - tesla switch bedini hybrid

                            Here's a scope shot of the same coil in the video, weird ringing that I'd like to emphasize somehow, maybe with an LC tank

                            Scope shot coil ringing - Vox
                            Atoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.

                            Comment


                            • Run data

                              Run data for 3 battery tesla switch bedini hybrid
                              Ts hybrid no load run data - Vox

                              You'll notice that battery 3 appears to be losing more charge than it should; it should lose no more than battery 1, and is bringing the performance down.

                              Battery 3 was in the charge position for an hour a week or two ago, and is the only old battery, the others are new.

                              I'll rotate them again and we'll see what happens. I may charge two batteries to full, so far they've all been pretty much flat.

                              Ps, I was playing with pulse width and frequency which is why the values don't change in a linear fashion.
                              Atoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.

                              Comment


                              • Tesla Switch Project

                                Hi everyone

                                I redrew the Mueller circuit to use Optos, the MJL21194 transistors and a PIC12C671 (left over from a project to block telemarketers..) to do the switching using 2 of the A to D inputs to change the pulse on width and off delay (TS-4ca.pdf). I had a PC board made with lots of possible options (I hope!). After Bit's success, I modified the circuit to equal his (I think..) and built both a 6 transister version and a copy of Bit's 4 transistor version.

                                Please note that the labels on the board of the transistors is wrong - Q1 and Q6 are correct but the rest should be Q1 - Q3 - Q5 - Q2 - Q4 - Q6. I also got the part spacing wrong (too close) so I can't use a one piece heat sink.

                                I chose to power the PIC with a separate source until it was working. 2 5K/10 turn pots are connected to the A/D inputs. The 6 optos are set up as 2 banks of 3, in series and turned on by 2 outputs from the PIC. I initially had an LED in series with each set of optos but first tests indicated the optos were not switching full on so I replaced them with 50 ohm resistors which limited the draw from the PIC to 20ma. each bank. The pulse width is adjustable in about 5ms steps from about 0 to over 1.5 seconds and the delay is from 0 to 200ms currently.

                                I have only tested the 4 transistor version so far. The bulbs glow dimly and the pulse width can definitely be varied. However, with a good set of batteries, I show on a digital voltmeter placed on the (+) of B1 and the (-) of B3 18 volts in series and 12 in parallel and the transistors get very warm.
                                No net gain on the batteries.

                                Hopefully I will get some more testing in next week..
                                Attached Files

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