Use for the Tesla Switch

[ourbobby]

My only point was to show the correlation between his technique and what Ron Brandt was saying.

But you can always step up and step down so that the potential can be used as needed in any position.

Matt

After the soul searching and elaboration of Ron Brandt's involvement in this application, I am not sure what is being said.

I have been looking again at the Benitez patent, and it seems that John Bedini is a bit behind the eight ball with this one in regards to who started what. I am not sure that a micro analysis of TS procedure is going to result in a practical outcome. Switching a few hundred milliamps is a lot different than switching several hundred amps.

Benitez uses his "charging circuit as an alternator, that is, constantly topping up his NiFe batteries. A problem for these batteries is that they can give up their potential very quickly. This is why I think that Benitez came up with the original idea. He mentions portability of power plants.

Benitez does not show what he does with the high frequency pulses that he salvages from the load. It looks like he drives these straight into the batteries! My reading is 10kv. I know that the hydroxyl solution of the NiFe works differently to that of the sulphuric acid solution but they still both produce hydrogen. He must have some way of converting this potential back to a usable voltage: unless he maybe has created a very high impedance. As he is using Tesla's high frequency theory, the solution for his is to ground his power unit and draw the excess current from an earth potential.

This would be more difficult to achieve using an "isolated" power supply such as an EV. So, the solution is to manipulate the pulsing technique to draw the excess energy required in through the "Ether" and charge caps to unload across the batteries.

Where we are ahead of Benitez is that we have at our disposal the means to automatically monitor the switching battery potentials and switch battery packs and be able to adjust the flow of charge across the batteries. Should make life a lot easier.

I am reconstructing my Battery Switch to run with relays in the first instance, and, I am having a special rotary switch made to replace these relays. I have resurrected the charging notes I made some time ago, which surprisingly enough, are very similar to those of Benitez, A few major differences that I will elaborate on if they work out. Mainly technique.


Regards
Rob

[Matthew Jones]

He must have some way of converting this potential back to a usable voltage:

Charge caps in series and switch to parallel to discharge them. After all the whole circuit is based on that premise. Up or Down based on it position.

Benitez uses his "charging circuit as an alternator, that is, constantly topping up his NiFe batteries. A problem for these batteries is that they can give up their potential very quickly.

Just the opposite You can pull huge loads and slam large charges into them. At least that was the reputation of the edison cells. They could be abused and still have a long life.

Matt

[ourbobby]

Charge caps in series and switch to parallel to discharge them. After all the whole circuit is based on that premise. Up or Down based on it position.


Just the opposite You can pull huge loads and slam large charges into them. At least that was the reputation of the edison cells. They could be abused and still have a long life.

Matt

Well, Up and down or in series, remember my original observation in another post Volts = amps. This is different to what you are saying I think. Also, I think I am looking for a different outcome to yourself.

Regarding the Edison batteries, the issue is that whereas a lead acid battery will hold a reasonable voltage after a severe discharge say 1.7 volts ish, its the very nature of the KOH alkaline solution and charging process that is the Achilles Heel of the NiFe battery. The Voltage potential will go down by a greater difference. The comment I was making was not about the ruggedness of the NiFe batteries but their well known shortcoming, not being able to hold their voltage potential.

When I say 1.7 volts this is per cell, say 10.3volts for a 12 volt battery. Also, per cell, gassing is likely to occur = electrolysis at 2.5 to 2.6 volts per cell. Or approximately 15.5 volts for a 12 volt battery. This is the lower threshhold for the onset of electrolysis, an issue likely to cause several problem if allowed to persist, non the least of which is the production of excess hydrogen that has to be accommodated. Now, if Benitez is putting 10kv across his batteries what is a possible outcome? I'll leave you to ponder that one. Also, with volts = amps, this implies that the circuit is running on zero resistance. Now, if you think carefully about this comment, you should be able to transform other parts of your circuit to act without resistance.

regards
Rob

[ldissing]

Brandt article

Finally saw the Brandt article that was posted earlier. Couldn't figure out why you guys were talking about Brandt and the article...Thanks, Vissie.

He did not say the batteries would not run down, he said they would last longer. Matt has been able to do this for a long time, right Matt!

JB seems to be saying something different, like you can keep them charged and running a load, which would be the holy grail of energy use. Maybe I have all been there all along and I was not totally understanding the use for the switch in the first place. If I read the patents from Benitez correctly, he was suggestion adding a motor with a generator into the mix to recharge the batteries too. The motor only needed to run long enough to get the batteries topped off, so it doesn't run much. You could pulse a solar panel into the batteries and do the same thing...don't need much extra energy, just a top off during the day to get them back up to full charge. Each time the batteries are in charge position, the solar panel is also there to help charge them when the sun is out.

I don't have a transformer with multiple tap like Brandt was saying to use, but I was just running one side of the switch with a little radio shack audio transformer and I was getting 65+ volts out the secondary, charged up a 220uf cap really nicely. Of course, Brandt was running the load off the secondary but I'm still playing with toys anyway.

900 Hz as in the Brandt article is a long way from 4 Hz to 0.5 Hz or even longer. More in line with what I had originally read which was from 100-800Hz. Running off the surface charge is probably the way to go, but you need a big amperage load (low resistance transformer) to keep it there as far as I can tell and be able to run it that fast. Anyway, I'll keep the toy shop running for a while and see what I can see.

Leroy

[Matthew Jones]

He did not say the batteries would not run down, he said they would last longer. Matt has been able to do this for a long time, right Matt!

Yep! and that always been my position is you can add charge to the system.

I am starting to think something like Joule Thief of a Bedini STO for the load. Use it to charge caps in serial, the switch the caps to parallel and dump back into the system.

But not using the TS to switch fast, just use the Joule the for a load like you would the light and use the skin charge in the batteries to keep power available.

I'm gearing up for some tests towards the weekend or first rainy day.

I have for along time been able to add power back into the system via solar or a separate power source. You just diode into the lines that connect the batteries and the lowest potential battery will take the charge.

Matt

[ldissing]

...
I have for along time been able to add power back into the system via solar or a separate power source. You just diode into the lines that connect the batteries and the lowest potential battery will take the charge.

Matt

Yes, but because you are using relays anyway, you can just tie in on the parallel sides of the relays with the solar panel, so it is only trying to charge the battery that is "under" charge, not the one powering at that moment. Kind of a pulse charge with the solar panel, instead of a continuous charge...just like the switch is doing already. JB has always said that charging and using a battery at the same time is a no-no, but I do not know what this does to the battery.

Leroy

[nvisser]

A post from JB a while ago on a ssg forum
.
“Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:42 pm
Re: Solar SG
Richard,
When using the SG to charge batteries with solar panels, you must match
the impedance of the panel to the SG.
To do this you need capacitors at least 20.000 uf 75 volts we run the
SG all the time this way. Set the SG to pull over 1 amp of current by
setting the base resistor. the next question, is it a multi-coil
machine, if so set it to pull over 5 amps min.
John”

So yesterday I though as I don’t get this monster to charge the batteries I will play a bit with the solar panel.
My panel is a 14w they claim.
In full sun it charges one of my 15000uf caps up to 27v in about 3 seconds.
My Ts is a full 6 transistor switch. I removed the two batteries on the one side and connected the capacitor over the (24v) positive and negative lines.
I also only pulsed that side . 1 second on and 3 sec off. In the 3 seconds the cap charges up to 27v in a saw tooth type of signal and when I pulse it discharge very quickly into the 2 parallel batteries. A lot like JB’s solar charger. My ammeter only shows about 800ma pulses as my solar panel does not deliver as much as JB’s power supply. The 2 batteries also only went up from 12v to about 12.4v in 8 hours. (7aH batteries)
I thought it could be a way to introduce power back into the switch when driving a proper load at a higher frequency.

Battery conditioner
Today I finished my battery conditioner. It uses the Bedini patent (joule thief) circuit. Much like ssg but the bottom of the trigger coil goes to the positive instead of ground and this circuit starts to oscillate at 0.7v . The way JB charge from a solar array in moonlight. I cannot do it as my panel is to small.
I use a huge 10A, 18v ac transformer(in stock) to drive a bridge, cap and then the joule thief circuit. It charges my 4 ,12V, 7aH batteries in parallel till they reach 14V. Then it rests the batteries for about 10 minutes. Then it switches a relay so that the batteries drive a miniature inverter that drives an 11Wcfl bulb. It draws about 1.1A from the battery. Around the c20 rate for 4 x 7ah batteries in parallel.
When the batteries reach 12.4V the load switch off and charging starts again.
Complete automatic with some resting time. I use a 555 as comparator between high and low and another astable 555 for the resting time.
I plan to run this for a while to condition these batteries completely.
I think I should open them up and top them up with distilled water just in case they need it. One of them goes flat much faster then the others.
Anybody interested in the pc layout must just tell me

[ldissing]

[QUOTE=nvisser;88128]...

My panel is a 14w they claim.
...
Battery conditioner
Today I finished my battery conditioner. It uses the Bedini patent (joule thief) circuit. Much like ssg but the bottom of the trigger coil goes to the positive instead of ground and this circuit starts to oscillate at 0.7v . The way JB charge from a solar array in moonlight. I cannot do it as my panel is to small.
[\QUOTE]

What if you put two solar panels in series at night, would it give you 0.7V?

Sounds cool Vissie. Keep up the good work.

Why don't you take that big cap, and discharge it into two smaller caps. Then put them in series and pulse that to the batteries...that is more like the solar charger, I think. Your pulses could be faster because the capacitors would be smaller, one pulse for 125ms, then off for 125 ms, at least long enough for the big cap to fill the two smaller caps to 17V or so? Just a thought.

Leroy

[Matthew Jones]

Good work Nvisser.

Think outside the box you've been handed.

Cheers
Matt

[nvisser]

Nobody ever mentioned this that I know of.
This is a picture of the Tesla Switch and the "HIGH VOLTAGE" that appears across the output.
ENERGY MACHINE PICTURES

[ldissing]

Nobody ever mentioned this that I know of.
This is a picture of the Tesla Switch and the "HIGH VOLTAGE" that appears across the output.
ENERGY MACHINE PICTURES

In order for the transistors to go negative....there must be high voltage, at least higher than 17V over the emitter on the reverse transistors. I mentioned it to JB in a private pm, but he's not talking to me, apparently. That is the only way they would go "negative" that I know of.

My contention is that the battery ions actually perform like an inductor, but I can not figure a way to prove it.

Leroy

[genessc]

Replaced the lamps with transformers?

Hi Leroy, Bits,

I usually don't post much but I took the time to read this monstrous thread so figured I may as well pop in for some questions or ideas.

If the battery is being "Discharged" it is probably acting like a "capacitor". If the battery is being Pulse Charged, it is probably acting like the "Inductor" in the SG system of bedini's. If the battery is being constant current charged then it will probably be acting like a "resistance". (hence the heating of the battery under those circumstances.)

Now prolly 10 or so pages back Bits had success with his pickaxe thingie pulsing the system properly. In a post, one of the last of JB's in this thread, John noted to replace those small lamps with transformers and use the secondary of whatever trafo to charge a cap, which THEN once charged, would be used to power a load. He didn't outright say it but it seemed implied to me that he was noting that those lamps should be replaced with a dual winding primary of a trafo, probably something rated at the potential difference being applied from the Tesla switch's battery stacks. (ie. 24 volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack is a 12volt potential to the load, excluding the 2volts bedini noted needed to be there over the parallel stack to charge it. 36volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack gives one a 24volt potential difference to use and thus the primaries could be 24volts each, for either half of the controlled alternations.)

In addition to this it seemed implied (tho perhaps loosely) that whatever came out of the secondary should be fed directly into a capacitor, and that most likely in an ideal situation this "collector capacitor" (or pair of caps depending on the trafo) would be discharged in the DEAD time of the tesla switch thats doing the controlling of the alternating series/parallel stacks. This would imply the need to be able to use a 4 slice controller cyclic controller.

Thats about the extent of what I could grasp from the 78 some odd pages of this thread.

I am in process of eventually building the potential switch (aka tesla switch) to be able to see what it does in front of me on the bench.

I would be curious to hear from either you or Bits about if the transformers worked in place of the bulbs and if you were able to collect much off the secondary. I don't check this group regularly so if you wanna hit me up for an email discussion, I'm at bellerian1@comcast.net.

Take care guys,
Gene

In order for the transistors to go negative....there must be high voltage, at least higher than 17V over the emitter on the reverse transistors. I mentioned it to JB in a private pm, but he's not talking to me, apparently. That is the only way they would go "negative" that I know of.

My contention is that the battery ions actually perform like an inductor, but I can not figure a way to prove it.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hi Leroy, Bits,

I usually don't post much but I took the time to read this monstrous thread so figured I may as well pop in for some questions or ideas.

If the battery is being "Discharged" it is probably acting like a "capacitor". If the battery is being Pulse Charged, it is probably acting like the "Inductor" in the SG system of bedini's. If the battery is being constant current charged then it will probably be acting like a "resistance". (hence the heating of the battery under those circumstances.)

Now prolly 10 or so pages back Bits had success with his pickaxe thingie pulsing the system properly. In a post, one of the last of JB's in this thread, John noted to replace those small lamps with transformers and use the secondary of whatever trafo to charge a cap, which THEN once charged, would be used to power a load. He didn't outright say it but it seemed implied to me that he was noting that those lamps should be replaced with a dual winding primary of a trafo, probably something rated at the potential difference being applied from the Tesla switch's battery stacks. (ie. 24 volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack is a 12volt potential to the load, excluding the 2volts bedini noted needed to be there over the parallel stack to charge it. 36volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack gives one a 24volt potential difference to use and thus the primaries could be 24volts each, for either half of the controlled alternations.)

In addition to this it seemed implied (tho perhaps loosely) that whatever came out of the secondary should be fed directly into a capacitor, and that most likely in an ideal situation this "collector capacitor" (or pair of caps depending on the trafo) would be discharged in the DEAD time of the tesla switch thats doing the controlling of the alternating series/parallel stacks. This would imply the need to be able to use a 4 slice controller cyclic controller.

Thats about the extent of what I could grasp from the 78 some odd pages of this thread.

I am in process of eventually building the potential switch (aka tesla switch) to be able to see what it does in front of me on the bench.

I would be curious to hear from either you or Bits about if the transformers worked in place of the bulbs and if you were able to collect much off the secondary. I don't check this group regularly so if you wanna hit me up for an email discussion, I'm at bellerian1@comcast.net.

Take care guys,
Gene

Gene thanks for the post, and welcome. The transformer DOES work. The interesting thing the transformer has shown me is that in my setup, the resistance needs to be about 1.5 Ohms. I replaced the transformer with a torrid and my batts are gaining very nicely when I am using the D-TS to just charge.

Thanks

Bit's

[Matthew Jones]

Nobody ever mentioned this that I know of.
This is a picture of the Tesla Switch and the "HIGH VOLTAGE" that appears across the output.
ENERGY MACHINE PICTURES

Thats cause he running it across a transformer and making AC.

Matt

[ldissing]

Hi Leroy, Bits,

I usually don't post much but I took the time to read this monstrous thread so figured I may as well pop in for some questions or ideas.

If the battery is being "Discharged" it is probably acting like a "capacitor". If the battery is being Pulse Charged, it is probably acting like the "Inductor" in the SG system of bedini's. If the battery is being constant current charged then it will probably be acting like a "resistance". (hence the heating of the battery under those circumstances.)

Now prolly 10 or so pages back Bits had success with his pickaxe thingie pulsing the system properly. In a post, one of the last of JB's in this thread, John noted to replace those small lamps with transformers and use the secondary of whatever trafo to charge a cap, which THEN once charged, would be used to power a load. He didn't outright say it but it seemed implied to me that he was noting that those lamps should be replaced with a dual winding primary of a trafo, probably something rated at the potential difference being applied from the Tesla switch's battery stacks. (ie. 24 volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack is a 12volt potential to the load, excluding the 2volts bedini noted needed to be there over the parallel stack to charge it. 36volt series stack into 12volt parallel stack gives one a 24volt potential difference to use and thus the primaries could be 24volts each, for either half of the controlled alternations.)

In addition to this it seemed implied (tho perhaps loosely) that whatever came out of the secondary should be fed directly into a capacitor, and that most likely in an ideal situation this "collector capacitor" (or pair of caps depending on the trafo) would be discharged in the DEAD time of the tesla switch thats doing the controlling of the alternating series/parallel stacks. This would imply the need to be able to use a 4 slice controller cyclic controller.

Thats about the extent of what I could grasp from the 78 some odd pages of this thread.

I am in process of eventually building the potential switch (aka tesla switch) to be able to see what it does in front of me on the bench.

I would be curious to hear from either you or Bits about if the transformers worked in place of the bulbs and if you were able to collect much off the secondary. I don't check this group regularly so if you wanna hit me up for an email discussion, I'm at bellerian1@comcast.net.

Take care guys,
Gene

Gene,

Do not be afraid to speak up and tell us what you are thinking...glad to have another experimenter in our midst. My feeling is that the system desires an LR or LCR load, but the tranformer is in keeping with the tests done by Bedini and Cole. I need to purchase or make a transformer to properly test this system, so that may be awhile. The system needs to have a very strong pulse, in my opinion to keep it in the upper range of potential, but I am still thinking the C20 rate is the right range of amperage for the batteries, or C10 if pulsed 50/50. So, I'm still working on this and will try some LR and LCR loads to see what I can see. I am in communication with DoubleD, and he has had some great success, so I am hopeful of learnin' sompin from him and being able to translate to my "system".

People often berate me for my opinions, but that is to be expected, so don't be surprised or take it too seriously. I just want everybody to succeed, and I'm glad the forum exists for all of us.

Leroy