Use for the Tesla Switch

[nvisser]

Come on Leroy. You can do better than that. After you went missing for a few months you must have something to tell us about the TS.
Welcome back

[Matthew Jones]

AHHH!!! Relief we can take the "Have You Seen" posters down now.

LOL

Matt

[nvisser]

Go easy on Leroy, he might be a bit "Bipolar"

[John_K]

Welcome Back Lero!

Well, there goes my theory.

I thought Leroy had figured out the TS and was abducted by aliens

Good to have you back, tell us of your travels...

BTW, I've been fooling around with the 2 cap pulser and been getting some great results. As long as I can keep the smoke in...



John K.

[SeaMonkey]

... If you would be so kind as to post a circuit that incorporates your ideas, experience, etc. it would be easy to validate/verify your comments.

Leroy

There are many technical documents (Applications Notes)
available from the various semiconductor manufacturers
which contain a wealth of information and circuits.

May I suggest that you, and any others who may be interested,
download a copy of AN1311 published this year by MicroChip.
The title of the Applications Note is "Single Cell Input Boost
Converter Design." This would be a good place to start.

Then download as many other Applications Notes as you may
find interesting. They're all free from the manufacturers
websites as .pdf files for easy viewing/copying.

For those interested in a 'chip' version of the switched
capacitor circuit (TS) download the Data Sheet for the
LTC3215 Low Noise High Current Charge Pump.
(Linear Technology)

[ldissing]

Come on Leroy. You can do better than that. After you went missing for a few months you must have something to tell us about the TS.
Welcome back

My move slowed progress and now my shop is teeny tiny. I don't even have room to turn around. I'm going to get going again as soon as I can, but have some pressing issues.

Leroy

P.S. Glad to be able to read a little and see what progress you all are making. Taking some time off has given me many more ideas...I'll be working on those soon.

[StevanC]

SeaMonkey,
The main gap in between "right way" and "right thing" is effort needed for success.


You are right, but You go "right way", which by far surpasses our ability to furnish labor to a DIY project.

We need more "right thing" decisions in our favor to be able to actually build it at all?

Like chewing it apart to achievable "classes" of 1-2hr of work with test/troubleshooting notes alongside the assembly process...

This is a lot of work, so i speak from experience, when I suggest splitting it to troubleshootable "modules".

And there are part selection decisions:

1. I would always pick a known flawed part with errata known, than an new "touted better" with errata unknown

2. Some of use (international forum) have issues following some BOM (Bill Of Materials), if the designer does not pay attention to availability (MJE13007 vs 2SC5027 for instance or IRF2204 vs IRFZ46)

3. Modularity of the project vs profi looks makes it easy if at all replicable by others (DIY PCB vs stripeboard or breadboard)


My first "cookie":
is there any faster driver than IRS21851 and could someone pick a world wide available one please?

I made a DIY breadboard adapter for few IRS21851 I picked earlier and the 0730x from China I plan to use for the "brains"
look up the attached pictures please

Stevan C.

[SeaMonkey]

SeaMonkey,
The main gap in between "right way" and "right thing" is effort needed for success.


You are right, but You go "right way", which by far surpasses our ability to furnish labor to a DIY project.

We need more "right thing" decisions in our favor to be able to actually build it at all?

Like chewing it apart to achievable "classes" of 1-2hr of work with test/troubleshooting notes alongside the assembly process...

This is a lot of work, so i speak from experience, when I suggest splitting it to troubleshootable "modules".

And there are part selection decisions:

1. I would always pick a known flawed part with errata known, than an new "touted better" with errata unknown

2. Some of use (international forum) have issues following some BOM (Bill Of Materials), if the designer does not pay attention to availability (MJE13007 vs 2SC5027 for instance or IRF2204 vs IRFZ46)

3. Modularity of the project vs profi looks makes it easy if at all replicable by others (DIY PCB vs stripeboard or breadboard)


My first "cookie":
is there any faster driver than IRS21851 and could someone pick a world wide available one please?

I made a DIY breadboard adapter for few IRS21851 I picked earlier and the 0730x from China I plan to use for the "brains"
look up the attached pictures please

Stevan C.

'Modularity' is good.

There are High Side Gate Driver chips available from several
different manufacturers. A search by means of your favorite
search engine (mine is Scroogle) will yield quite a few leads.

Do you have a mail-order electronics supply house within your
country? Most now have the ability to search their parts
inventory to find specific parts or substitutes.

I am a great believer in 'substitutes' and using parts that
are readily available and inexpensive. Electronics Surplus
vendors can be a good source of inexpensive chips and
transistors, MosFets, diodes, capacitors, etc...

The Compact Fluorescent Lamp with the electronic
ballast is a really good source of parts. The transistors
used in them are the Low Vce high efficiency switching
transistors. When one of these CFLs goes bad, carefully
remove the electronic ballast circuit board to remove
the parts. Testing the transistors will reveal whether
one, or both, are still good.

Happy hunting!

[StevanC]

Now this is quite more DIY like ;-)
The "D440" for instance?

[SeaMonkey]

The "D440" for instance?

The "D440" is perhaps the Sanyo 2SD440 transistor?

It seems to be 'obsolete' and any specifications for
it very difficult to locate.

Fortunately, it is possible to determine the 'specs'
by self measurement. The procedures for determining
Breakdown Voltage, Beta and Cutoff Frequency are
pretty straight-forward. Although, it is rarely necessary
to do those tests.

Breadboarding it into a circuit and evaluating its
performance; then 'tweaking' base drive to enhance
its operation, will generally produce good results.

[ewizard]

Ya I have built 6 mechanicals. about 7 mechanical / solid state. Another 8 solid state. I have tried just about every configuration of them that is outand I have come up with a few to top it off.
Mechanical has got some advantages. Mostly they keep the potential up. But you can do it with mechanical relays just as well and with a lot less work.
Look in my signature for the ISCC it worked pretty well.
The biggest problem is finding something that will hold up over a period of time. You start pulling large load, and thats what you need to do to get a positive effect, the start to run rough and eventually fail from the points.

Right now I am collecting parts to build 1 relay that has all the mechanical contacts needed to switch. But tungsten is not cheap.And I would like the contacts to actually be able to hold up over a period of time with a large load.

If you post your idea's I'll let you know what I have tried or if I have any advice.

Matt

Matt, Thanks for the ideas and schematic. I considered car starter relays but didn't think they would be able to keep up at the speed suggested in Patrick Kelly's info that I'm trying to follow. Even at 100 Hz (low end of the range) that would be several thousand times per minute opening and closing.
I noticed in the schematic you referenced (ISCC) that there seems to be only 2 diodes instead of the 4 I thought it needed (not counting the FWBR).

BTW I think I posted this info before here that Kelly had changed the circuit based on some new info and that what appears to be backwards for the diodes is actually correct. See the diagram below as this is the new corrected one. Have you tried something similar to this configuration? This newly corrected one was just mentioned by Kelly in the last couple weeks on a yahoo group I follow and is in his latest book revision or in Chapter 5.
Note upon taking another look at this in his book I am now questioning as to which one is correct because of what I believe is simply a mistake he made in referencing 'above' when I think he meant 'below'. The new diagram in Chapter 5 is below and one I had not seen until recently. I'll check into this and post here unless someone else knows about this.

[Matthew Jones]

That schematic won't work, unless you can beat the switching rate of the diode and manage to get some power out of it. You would have to have some real high voltage.

Referencing the relays: It depends on what you want to build it for. Right now to keep a little power in my shop I have got an ISCC running. It switch's every 2 minutes with the batteries I got. They stay pretty charged up. I only pull no more that 500 watts off them at a given time. Much more than that and the inverter cries foul. I charge them from a solar panel when not in use.
But if you want to start switching faster you have defendantly use either solid state or some kind of commutator to get the speeds up.

The Brandt Switch ran a center tap transformer at high 900 hz or so and delivered energy. I have been messing with small one and it works but there is so little amperage its hard to gauge how much work it will do.

The Carlos Benitez patents runs transformers as well. But he ran 2 and use the inductive power from one to back charge the system and the other to power loads. This works also but still no real power.

Keep hunting though, we'll figure it out one day.

Cheers
Matt

[SeaMonkey]

Matt, Thanks for the ideas and schematic. I considered car starter relays but didn't think they would be able to keep up at the speed suggested in Patrick Kelly's info that I'm trying to follow. Even at 100 Hz (low end of the range) that would be several thousand times per minute opening and closing.

The use of mechanical relays for positioning
the batteries within the 'loop' is actually not
a bad idea.

In order to minimize the wear and tear on the
relay contacts you'd only want to 'switch' them
during periods of no load current. This means
that the load current pulsing would need to be
accomplished by an 'add on' device such as
a MosFet. Automotive grade MosFets are
now inexpensively available that can switch over
150 Amperes.

The relays could be cycled at a relatively low
rate (every 5 to 10 seconds) while the series
connected load pulsing MosFet could be
'pulsed' at any convenient rate to maximize
the 'Bedini battery-popping' effect.

Relay connections would be altered periodically
during the 'pulse off' times. This would assure
that each battery received its share of 'charge'
as the loop rotates but the electro-mechanical
relays would not be doing any of the active 'switching'
of load current.

[Matthew Jones]

Your right about the relays. Temporally shutting load down to prevent arcing makes them last alot longer.

See the thing most people don't realize though, is it not a Back Popping scenario that creates the extra energy. IT ringing you get from serial position switch. If you switch it fast enough or correctly (Still kind of a mystery) that switch will show a greater amount of power on the scope than any other.
The reversal of the ion flow (Back Popping) contributes as well but not anything like what you see out of the correct switching in a battery.

Bedini said some time back that the battery can act not only as a capacitor but also an inductor.

You get into mosfets so you know you have to provide inductive protection on a mosfet that is driving a capacitive load. This very danger to the mosfet is the primary thing you want to invoke in the battery. A surge of power. The power doesn't come from the plate charge or the ion current but from the skin charge. When you can get the skin charge on the battery to swing the battery up and down real fast on the volt meter that when the extra power at the load will show up. Its not the skin charge or charge at all that is doing it, its the environment in which those charges are flowing.

I have never been able to make a battery charge but thats when most of your work gets done. Mechanical relays rarely show positive results.

I have to admit I have never tried pulsing the load while the relay is connected but I can not see where that would give me the effect I am looking to find and hang on to.

Matt

[SeaMonkey]

Your right about the relays. Temporally shutting load down to prevent arcing makes them last alot longer.

See the thing most people don't realize though, is it not a Back Popping scenario that creates the extra energy. IT ringing you get from serial position switch. If you switch it fast enough or correctly (Still kind of a mystery) that switch will show a greater amount of power on the scope than any other.
The reversal of the ion flow (Back Popping) contributes as well but not anything like what you see out of the correct switching in a battery.

Bedini said some time back that the battery can act not only as a capacitor but also an inductor.

You get into mosfets so you know you have to provide inductive protection on a mosfet that is driving a capacitive load. This very danger to the mosfet is the primary thing you want to invoke in the battery. A surge of power. The power doesn't come from the plate charge or the ion current but from the skin charge. When you can get the skin charge on the battery to swing the battery up and down real fast on the volt meter that when the extra power at the load will show up. Its not the skin charge or charge at all that is doing it, its the environment in which those charges are flowing.

I have never been able to make a battery charge but thats when most of your work gets done. Mechanical relays rarely show positive results.

I have to admit I have never tried pulsing the load while the relay is connected but I can not see where that would give me the effect I am looking to find and hang on to.

Matt

The original circuit configuration of Ron Brandt
used two banks of 3 batteries each (see thumbnail.)

Each bank of 3, when series connected for 36 Volts,
would discharge through the opposite bank, parallel
connected (12 Volts) with germanium diodes, and into one
half of an output transformer primary. By controlled switching,
the banks would alternate, each providing one half of the
output cycle (24 Volts) to the transformer while 'charging'
the opposite parallel connected bank.

While charging batteries which are parallel connected is
not the ideal, I can understand why Ron used that sort
of connection. The three batteries together would
present a high current path with much less loss while
receiving the load current 'charge' pulse thus making
maximum power available to the load.

Ron said he adjusted the switching frequency until
he hit a battery 'resonance' at about 900 Hz.

While the batteries would eventually run down and
require external charging, equalizing and desulfation,
they would power his automobile for about 400 miles
of driving on a charge.

By the addition of an 'H' bridge to produce alternations,
it would be possible to re-configure the Brandt circuit
to achieve low frequency electro-mechanical bank
switching with a higher frequency 'battery resonance'
output frequency. That is, if an alternating current
output is desired.

For pulsating DC the solution is even simpler.

Yes, for maximum efficiency it is customary to use a
MosFet with the lowest suitable voltage rating for a
given application. This is to assure that the Rds(on)
will be the very lowest possible for minimal conduction
losses (heat generation.)

To protect the MosFet from an overvoltage transient
(flyback) it is necessary to provide some means of
protection. Once the MosFet goes into avalanche
it will run very hot and potentially self-destruct.

Needless to say, I've 'melted' one or two because of
this need for adequate protection. Fortunately, the
protective measures are not difficult and can be as
simple as a transient absorber from Drain to Source.

Similar to the measures taken to protect the bipolar
transistor from 'punch-through' transients.