Use for the Tesla Switch

[morpher44]

schematic

Through experimentation and careful comparisons of the different diagrams i was able to find out that by rearranging the 6 switches and using a common positive you don't need the diodes at all. That eliminates several volts in losses.

Sounds interesting. Can you post your schematic?

[Matthew Jones]

Well my point was, Its not the way you run the switch or the components of the switch but the load you run on it. As long as you develop an ungrounded potential, that you can run a load off of, the effect the load has is the only thing that will show you unity or above.
The circiut itself will not. The only thing you need in it is the means to switch without a ground.
The version that is in the Mueller paper, will lose over time. I have no doubt.
The transformers alone are a sure sign for me, unless they are wound some alternative way. Feel free to find out.

The only load I can come up with that shows positive signs is a motor. Not like a conventional, but similiar. Same pole (North or south) on either side. The rotor only pulls into the the stator it does not push away. And both coils on the motor are independant of each other.
This motor produces a BEMF that will flow with the energy coming in and not disapate it. Adding to the potential of the batteries. I am not diagraming it at this time.

I attached a half a switch schematic to show how to drive directly with a transistor. I use diodes to my batteries. They are not in the schematic.
I have modified quete a bit. This is just to see how the transistors fire.
The following is the oscillator circiut I use, minus the 680r and diofferent resistance for variable speed.

Dual Transistor Multivibrator Circuit

This multi vibrator can run off the potential at the bridge and can fire the SSR's which in turn fire the transistors.

Cheers
Matt

[nvisser]

I agree with Redeagle. I also found that 2 extra switches can replace the 4 diodes between the parralel batteries.
I tested it with a 6 pole rotary switch

[kent_elyue]

@ Matthew Jones re: Why Transformers at all?

I apologize if I am stating something you already know, or if my ill-fit choice of words causes further confusion.

I believe that transformers are one possible way (perhaps the easiest) to turn on transistors that do not share a common ground. The one circuit in the Mueller Report shows a simple rotary switch being used to forward bias the transistors, but I can't see it possibly working as drawn. The transformer method allows a forward bias voltage to be applied locally to each transistor independently of ground reference. Figure T-7 (the one with the rotary switch) would only, in my estimation, short circuit the batteries as soon as you turned on the transistors, were it even possible. You simply cannot - MUST not couple all the emitters together as drawn. Neither can you couple all the bases together.

Furthermore, look at the picture of the erroneous schematic. As indicated in green, as it is drawn, there is no possible way to turn TR1 on, and even if you could, you would only short circuit Battery 1. Using a transformer coil allows you to decouple all the bases and emitters, and instead apply a small transient forward-biasing voltage between the base and emitter of a single transistor independent of the powering source. See here for a similar circuit: Magnet Motor - Kicker.
[http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/magkick.htm] Look familiar? (A one-component SSG, but without the energy recapture.)

In the second diagram I have simplified the arrangement to it's barest minimum to illustrate that you only need an appropriate voltage between base and emitter to cause the transistor to turn on. This is exactly the same way Bedini uses a trigger winding in the SSG to turn on the transistor. The NPN transistor will only turn on with "positive" voltages applied, i.e. the base is at a higher potential than the emitter. With a negative potential, the transistor stays off. So long as you induce the coil in some way, (moving a magnet past it, or an inductively coupled electromagnetic pulse), a positive-going voltage can forward bias the transistor, while a negative-going voltage pulse won't do anything. This method allows the powering source to REMAIN ISOLATED from the forward bias voltage. (See the Ken Moore T-7 diagram.)

The "other way" to forward bias a transistor is to "pull the base up" to the collector potential. This is the way the opto-couplers work in the Cole Bipolar Switch. It amounts to same thing, namely applying a positive voltage difference to the base with respect to the emitter, EXCEPT that this method uses the powering source to ALSO supply the forward bias voltage.

As some here have previously mentioned a switching lag inherent with opto-couplers, I have decided to try the transformer method.

[kent_elyue]

@ redeagle

As I understand it, the diodes are not necessary for circuit operation. They are necessary, though, to prevent one of the paralleled batteries from discharging into a lower voltage one. I mean to say that, half the time, two of the batteries are connected in parallel. If one battery is 12.5 volts, and the other is only 11.8 volts, without the diodes, the 12.5 will try to charge the 11.8. The diodes prevent this and allow both batteries to remain at differing voltages, while still seeing the charging potential when it's applied.

Argh! I get so frustrated with my inept use of words.

[Matthew Jones]

Well thats a good answer, but its still is not coherant with "practical".
You don't need transformers to fire the transistors. All you need to do is pull the base power from the correct location. Timing is easy, like I said an multivibrator and relays, preferably solid state.
You should use diodes to spread the charge evenly accross the charging bank. If not, the potential of the very first battery on the charging side will grow more than the others in the bank.
I fear alot of people grow unsuccessfull because they look into the most complicated way of doing it. And Like I said before its not the power source that is the big trick its the loads. I just like to encourage simplicity so maybe someone can get the to the real meat and potatoes.

Matt

[kent_elyue]

@ Matthew Jones

I definitely agree with simplicity!

I like the idea of the astable multivibrator running LEDS - which could be located within opto-couplers. You would need 6 of them, but the Astable MV should be able to drive 3 opto LED's in series on each leg.

I can draw up a complete schematic if any one wants.

And in furtherance to the transformer concept, I was also looking at the possibility that perhaps only a brief ON-pulse was necessary. The coils can do that, whereas the opto coupler circuit would behave differently. The Cole Bipolar Switch circuit seems to support the notion of an ON-pulse of equal duration to the OFF-pulse. The Ken Moore diagram seemed to suggest short ON-pulses with moments of relaxation in between. Such ambiguity is what I find very frustrating. That and circuit diagrams that seem to be erroneous no matter how liberal and open-minded I endeavour to be.

And I'll also state that I'm still uncertain as to which might work better. My recent toyings with SSG charging circuits seem to indicate that a longer ON-pulse is necessary to allow some current to flow in order to get the battery into proper charging mode. So even without having built the circuit I posted, I'm leaning towards changing it for the opto-coupler design.

...Sigh...

[Matthew Jones]

@kent_elyue
Nope I have it drawn the way I use it. Try it, you'll see. I have small setup that is working on MJL21194's. You should have them handy. I have others too.
You need as little offtime as you can get away with.

And for the last time !! The switch does not charge batteries !! The switch is only a means to an Open Loop Power source.

The load will add or subtract energy from the power source.

Matt

[redeagle]

here is my schematic, the T1 and T2 show the timing. The transistors may be replaced by any other switching means. I am currently using a solid state oscillator with six trigger wires to trigger them. I am hoping to start work on a flip flop circuit soon to drive the switching.

Yes diodes do keep the current from flowing from one battery in the parallel set to the other, but they also cause a voltage drop and regardless the electricity is going to flow through the path of the least resistance which happens to be the lower voltage battery. by eliminating the diodes I have the capability to run output from a motor generator back to anybattery in the tesla switch and they will all benefit from it.

[kent_elyue]

@ Matthew Jones

Please forgive me. I sense that I am perhaps trying your patience. I sincerely apologize.

I'm sorry to be such a pain. Really, I'm not trying to harass you. I just want to be sure I have the concept clear in my own head.

Humbly,
kent

[Matthew Jones]

Your not getting on my nerves or anything like that. I am glad your interested. So buck up.

Current is flowing from hot side of the second battery, back up to the ground of the first, Thats the direction of the flow. So you tap the source of the flow and the base will fire the transistor.

You can wire a simple version of just that transistor with 2 batteries and see it work. When that transistor is turned on the 2 batt's are in series. When it is not they are in parrallell.

Don't ask me though to explain it on some higher education lingo, I can't. I just know it works. It took a while of trial an error to find it. Not all transistors act the same but most do pretty well.

All the transistor setups shown above, work with the same kind of transistor (IE MJL21194, TIP 3055...). You can take that and duplicate it in both directions and will produce a switch effect. Of course you have to have an oscillator to run it.

The great thing about it is they cost you nothing in grounded current or BEMF producing current to run. It will switch all day long with the most minimal loss.

Just test the thing one switch at a time. You'll see.

Cheers
Matt

[kent_elyue]

@Matthew Jones

For the moment I'm going to set aside the forward-bias issue of the transistor.

I don't want to let my OCD get in the way of progress either, but I still think there's something wrong with the circuit diagram. Let me explain:

If I "take that and duplicate it in both directions" by copying the right side connections to the left side batteries like the picture below, as soon as the transistor turns on, will it not short circuit both left-side batteries since there is nothing to break the parallel connection?

I propose that redeagle's picture (post 309) is accurate. Look at the picture below, the one with Figures 1, 2, and 3. In figure 1, I show the relocation of the two transistors from your drawing such that they allow an interruption of the parallel connection of the right-side batteries. This allows the circuit to be "duplicated in both directions while avoiding the short-circuit condition I spoke of.

But also note, that by simplifying the diagram further, and putting diodes in instead of transistors, you can see that figure 2 is still an open circuit. By reversing the left-side diode (Figure 3) you make a circuit which can function. This circuit is only one half of the final circuit. The second half reverses the flow through the load.

By noting the direction of the diode in figure 3, I return to my original postulation, and reiterate that redeagle's diagram must be correct.

Yes? No?

[redeagle]

@Matthew Jones

For the moment I'm going to set aside the forward-bias issue of the transistor.

I don't want to let my OCD get in the way of progress either, but I still think there's something wrong with the circuit diagram. Let me explain:

If I "take that and duplicate it in both directions" by copying the right side connections to the left side batteries like the picture below, as soon as the transistor turns on, will it not short circuit both left-side batteries since there is nothing to break the parallel connection?

I propose that redeagle's picture (post 309) is accurate. Look at the picture below, the one with Figures 1, 2, and 3. In figure 1, I show the relocation of the two transistors from your drawing such that they allow an interruption of the parallel connection of the right-side batteries. This allows the circuit to be "duplicated in both directions while avoiding the short-circuit condition I spoke of.

But also note, that by simplifying the diagram further, and putting diodes in instead of transistors, you can see that figure 2 is still an open circuit. By reversing the left-side diode (Figure 3) you make a circuit which can function. This circuit is only one half of the final circuit. The second half reverses the flow through the load.

By noting the direction of the diode in figure 3, I return to my original postulation, and reiterate that redeagle's diagram must be correct.

Yes? No?

in the mueller report figure T-7 on page 12 if you start ate the timer input and go clock wise labeling the transistors 1 to 6 then as wired 1, 2, and 3 fire then the other 3 fire. Transistors 2 and 3 put the left bank in series. While transistor one is intended to parallel the other bank, it actually creates a short. It is shown to connect the negative of the first battery on the left side to between the negative diodes on the right hand side. Because at the time there is positive potential at that diode the current shorts and you have a smoking mess.

As far as i can tell the switching in figure T-6 is correct if you follow it you should be fine as far the switching goes.

[DoubleD]

Does Dave have it up and running? Is he posting in another thread or on a youtube channel?

Hi Nilrehob.

Sorry I haven't replied earlier... Had a lot of stuff come up and now finally getting back in to this.

Anyhow YES I have built this circuit and it works great !
I have spent a lot of time getting it figured out so it will work with these solid state components, as they aren,t designed to work with the energy that runs through this the way it does.

I was in the stage of setting up a micro controller to run it to get to the
actuall research stage I am after with this, I will tell you it is not as it appears , there is a lot more going on with this than most realize but I can,t go to the next level of research until I get better control of it.

The circuit as is when tuned to the load and batteries does work and the Mosfets/Igbt's (depends on the load) will actually start to get cold and frost up instead of getting hot.

I will get back on this as soon as I finish the Multi Fuel engine I am designing now.

I will check back here more often now too.

Later
Dave

[Matthew Jones]

@kent_elyue
The complete circiut takes a few more parts..That said if RedEagles works hammerdown! use it.

My biggest point was to show that you don't need transformers and partially grounded circiuts to make it work.

And again if you get one working start running loads on it.

Cheers
Matt