Use for the Tesla Switch

[John_K]

Wouldn't think of it Jeff. Surely you meant "permission?"(sp)

Your video is interesting and your verbal descriptions
are easy to follow - but,

don'tcha think it's a bit of a Rube Goldberg device?

It is partially "looped" for sure, but questions come
to mind:

Can you give us any idea what the Input Power is?

How much power is being harvested from your
"one coil" and re-applied to the charging batteries?

In other words, what sort of efficiency is there in
your impressive looking device? How much power
is lost in the process?

Wouldn't it be possible to achieve the same result
with a stationary multi-winding transformer?

Well, I gotta give you this: it is a good demo of
the use of a micro-controller for monitor and
evaluation (decision-making) purposes.
A+ for that!

By the way - thanks for "inviting" me back into your
"clique." I don't reckon I'll stay long...

I think someone is jealous! (Did I spell that right?)

Rube Goldberg indeed! How much more proof do you want??





John K.

[StevanC]

@jeff

@StevenC, Sometimes we need normal design practices to get to the "out of the normal" results. In my opinion, "Free Energy will not be had by one device, but many great devices working in harmony with each others".

I think I respectfully disagree. I think "free energy" will be a simple device and a big "forehead splatter" once we "get it".

OTOH, I admire Your dedication and hard work invested. Also I appreciate Your opinion and value You add to the discussion.

Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post

@SeaMonkey, You do not have my permisson to repost this.

YouTube - Perpetual Self Runner.MPG

Jeff

Wouldn't think of it Jeff. Surely you meant "permission?"(sp)

Your video is interesting and your verbal descriptions
are easy to follow - but,

don'tcha think it's a bit of a Rube Goldberg device?

It is partially "looped" for sure, but questions come
to mind:

Can you give us any idea what the Input Power is?

How much power is being harvested from your
"one coil" and re-applied to the charging batteries?

In other words, what sort of efficiency is there in
your impressive looking device? How much power
is lost in the process?

Wouldn't it be possible to achieve the same result
with a stationary multi-winding transformer?

Well, I gotta give you this: it is a good demo of
the use of a micro-controller for monitor and
evaluation (decision-making) purposes.
A+ for that!

By the way - thanks for "inviting" me back into your
"clique." I don't reckon I'll stay long...

now that was mature



Rube Goldberg machine
not that the comparison was far off



Besides that, a warning:
in favor of Tehnoman's comment:

Every time we making complex (=non-simple) devices,
we risk to obfuscate the magic component.

and we all know that (=EV-Gray, =Meyers, others...)

Our ultimate goal would be to "skin the onion" to the core, right?

like the 555 voltage doubler i posted: can it be made to be "floating"?

can it be made to be 80V?

i think it can


Stevan C.

[ldissing]

As simple a device as possible

@All,

This post is meant to simulate our thought process, an interrupt if you will from our own thoughts which may (or may not) lead us to other ideas, not to get off track of the TS (which I thought this forum was about, but has moved around a bit ... which is fine too).

@Stevan,

We already have the simplest device possible. The simplest device is the SSG, but it isn't the "ssg" itself, it is the battery and what it does with a very brief potential, i.e. spike...is the battery itself the magic component.

If we go back and look over JBs comments then I think we will see that the SSG was not meant as "the device", it was meant to show the waveform and what the battery would do with the waveform.

Now, we are familiar with the device, a src battery, a coil, a controller, and a chg battery. The controller being one coil on a bi-filar coil that controls frequency with a transistor as the on/off switch.

So, that is the simplest device that JB put out there from which we were supposed to learn. But did we learn anything...we have all kinds of conflicting information, like the coil is pulling in vacuum energy, the battery is pulling in vacuum energy, the transistor is going negative, etc.

But my belief is that it was the waveform out of the coil and then what the battery does with that waveform. JB showed two devices in the book, the SSG (wheel with magnets) and the solid state device (i.e. no wheel).

With either device, the coil produces a spike, proportional to the energy input into the coil (classical EE). Pulse it at 50Hz with a 20% duty cycle and you get a spike out, Pulse it at 50Hz with a 40% duty cycle and you get a bigger spike, pulse it at 10000Hz with a 50% duty cycle you get a smaller spike, but many many more of them, etc.

Why is the spike bigger at 50Hz and 40% duty cycle? More energy into the coil than at 20%. So, if the average input current and voltage were 100 mA and 12V, then the coil produces a spike of lets say 120V with current of say 9 or 9.9 mA (I will just call it 10 mA). As you increase the average input current to say 200ma, then either, the spike gets bigger say 240V at at 10mA, or stays the same at 120V but at a current 20mA. The input power and output power are roughly the same and THAT depends on the coil itself, how abruptly the transistor turns off, etc.

The battery may or may not care about the potential/current pair (actually it does care), but the point is that it will convert that HV spike/small current to a charging voltage/current pair. Just like a transformer that takes 120V and converts to 24V or 12V. If you take 120V transformer at 100mA, and down convert to 12V, you get roughly 12V at 1A (very, very rough calculation to make the numbers super simple). Based on my charger, I believe that is what the battery does with the signal. The potential puts the battery into charging mode and the current is modified and accepted by the battery over time. You may see a saw tooth wave all above the zero line (straight up and then decaying back to standing voltage) or you may see a negative going wave followed by a spike, or some combination of those waves and some ringing as well. Some of this appears to depend on battery type, i.e. lead acid, NiCD, NiMH, etc., but it also depends on frequency, as I can make the same charging battery do different things with its input depending on frequency and duty cycle, but as discussed before, frequency and duty cycle also make the coil produce higher or lower pulses at varying currents.

So, that device is pretty simple. What do we do with it. To answer that, I believe we must finally come back to Kron. From JB's site:

Now a value E of the negative resistances, at which the generator current becomes zero, represents a state at which the circuit is self-supporting and has a continuous existence of its own without the presence of the generator, as the negative resistances just supply the energy consumed by the positive resistances. (If the circuit contains inductors and capacitors, the circuit is a resonant circuit and it oscillates at its basic frequency.) E is then an eigenvalue En, while the voltage distribution across the capacitors (Fig. 4c) gives the corresponding eigenfunction ?n.

When the generator current is positive the circuit draws energy from the source, and when the current is negative the circuit pumps back energy into the source. At zero generator current the circuit neither gives nor takes energy, and theoretically the generator may be removed. All values of E at which the current crosses the axes and becomes zero are eigenvalues of the equation and the corresponding voltage distribution curves are eigenfunctions. When the energy level E overflows the well, the discrete spectrum of eigenvalues changes into a continuous spectrum and the generator current is zero at all greater values of E.

When the energy E changes sign, the negative resistances become positive resistances and at no value of -E may the circuit be self-supporting (as it contains only positive resistances). That is, the equation has no negative eigenvalues.

I'm no Kron expert (or in any other thing for that matter) but if we could tap into what this says (I didn't say I knew how to do it) and extract power from the charging battery at only certain places....we could obtain energy in excess of what we put in...but this does require fast switching devices and detection.

Just to make you think some more hopefully, my small mind has been working on this for some time, but with the consolidated brain power of this
group, we should be able to figure it out.

@All,

I think several people have contributed to the advancement of all, and I believe it will take multiple devices, but even JBs 10 coiler is using the same principles as the little SSG. It just uses more input power and outputs more power, i.e. bigger banks of batteries can be supported....Possibly more "extra" power is available through something that has not been revealed, but we don't need the big dog (10 coiler) to see it. Most probably the "extra" power is more visible with the bigger device (and when it shows up it is easier to see) and that is why it is needed, but it is there in the small SSGs too.

Hopefully, we can think about things in a different way. Only by asking the right questions can we get the answer we seek. If we can focus on extraction of power without depleting the source or at least getting more power from the source than is usually available, we have "some" free energy.

Sorry to write a book...

Leroy

[StevanC]

trading V for A and back

this is somewhat out of topic, but it has to do with 555 and the PV_amp as it is aligned to the concept of trading voltage for amps and vice versa.

Interestingly, there is no trace of heavi amperage load all the while producing HV:


I just post it in advance before i go to H/W with it ( an sort of a battery poker )

Leroy, Tesla did imagine impedance as springs:

a small capacitor is a stiff spring
a large coil is a soft spring

there from he derived conclusions on oscillatory electricity motions...

Now we all know we have those transverse springs (like fishing sticks) and longitudinal springs (like in the ball pen)...

(uh, oh... i left my thinking cap too long on... )

Ah,
The schematic

P.S.
what if we substitute he capacitor array with batteries?
no?
P.P.S.
its based on this:
Cockcroft-Walton generator

[StevanC]

Did I say it goes atop of 80V?

It would need to have a scr/neon trigger (crowbar type) for kicking whatever ...

Stevan C.

[Matthew Jones]

I won't actually quote all this,
Only add on to what Leroys saying. MJ
Leroy

One way to derive the free energy is to generate from the potential only or through 1 wire setup, as shown by Bedini, while retaining the power of the spike. This alot of what I have been looking at in a smaller setup while driving transformers.
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/Potential.jpg (This is not a complete schematic just an outline)
I built a simple little switch that uses 2 Darlington transistors for serial switch. Each side is a separate circiut.
It drives a quadfiliar coil. 1 strand of wire for each direction, and 2 wires to generate from.
The 2 generator wires each only show a 3 volt AC potential but when rectified and deposited into a capacitor I end up with somewhere around 18 volt +. Do to the Inductive spikes.
So between this capacitor and the A2/B2 battery I have a good potential. In turn drive secondary coil with that potential while delivering it to the battery that is not receiving any charge from the Main Tesla Switch.
The secondary coils in that position drive my little stamp board and a 12volt .25 amp bulb.

The batteries initially took a drop in voltage when the switch was started up but for the coarse of 7 days ran within range and didn't appear to loose charge. The charge just moved to the A1 / B1 batteries.

So what your saying about these spikes is applicable. They do not loose potential. And in fact they propagate further down the wire through resistance. And the of course the battery retains them better.

Anyway I just wanted to back up what you were saying with a little example.

Cheers
Matt

[ldissing]

...
So what your saying about these spikes is applicable. They do not loose potential. And in fact they propagate further down the wire through resistance. And the of course the battery retains them better.

Anyway I just wanted to back up what you were saying with a little example.

Cheers
Matt

Thx Matt.

This isn't exactly the same as you've described, but power none the less that "showed" up when I was working two years ago or so.

I was screwing around with electrolysis from the SSG, not solid state, but a tiny wheel that was rotating at about 1800 rpm. The magnets on it were tiny little 1/2 round ceramics (because the wheel was so narrow.

So, the coil was a 3 wire coil, 1 power, 1 trigger, and 1 for utilizing the power. This means Krons open/closed system was being utilized. I was looking at the differences in electrolysis with/without a cap pulser in place using distilled water and no electrolyte in the water.

I put a cap pulser on the "open" part of the system to collect potential and then fired that through a coil and into the electrolysis part (water capacitor) but as JB would say firing the thing from the negative side. So, it was CAP + to water cap +, water cap - to SCR anode and CAP - to the coil and then to the cathode of the SCR and I was triggering it with a 555 timer (a few other components in there too, but trying to give you a feel for the setup). But, of course, you could also put a battery in there instead of the water cap or even a battery in series with the water cap.

Well, you aren't supposed to get more than about 1.2 volts between plates in water, but my meter was reading roughly 50 V between two plates and I could light a 12V led continuously (at least as far as my eyes could detect) across the terminals of the water capacitor. Kind of strange, because the cap wasn't firing all that fast (I'm a terrible engineer and do not always write every thing down).

But, this was NOT the strange part.

So, i decide that I'm going to hook a battery in series with this water cap so I shut the thing down and then hook up the battery....as I hook up this battery, a huge spark scares the hell out of me. It was about two inches long and was either white or blue, not as brief as one would expect from a "spark", and I about crapped my pants, as I had been doing things like this for a long time and had not seen it before and was so unexpected. Where did that spark come from, and why? There was some real power in there and some HV....I think this was the kind of energy that Tesla/Moray/etc. was generating, but they knew how to produce it whenever they wanted. This is the "real" power for which I have been looking.

I've seen similar bolts of energy a few other times, but do NOT know how I did it. I need to write EVERYTHING down all the time as do we all.

We will eventually find it...may just be 100 years old. This why I consider making one "find" the way (when one DOES KNOW the way) instead of just showing us the way to be such a pain. We might be too old to utilize what we find after we find it and it could be lost again, but such is life and what our "masters" want, i.e. continued slavery, ignorance, conformance and the status quo.

By working together we do have a chance though, so I still have hope.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Thx Matt.

This isn't exactly the same as you've described, but power none the less that "showed" up when I was working two years ago or so.

I was screwing around with electrolysis from the SSG, not solid state, but a tiny wheel that was rotating at about 1800 rpm. The magnets on it were tiny little 1/2 round ceramics (because the wheel was so narrow.

So, the coil was a 3 wire coil, 1 power, 1 trigger, and 1 for utilizing the power. This means Krons open/closed system was being utilized. I was looking at the differences in electrolysis with/without a cap pulser in place using distilled water and no electrolyte in the water.

I put a cap pulser on the "open" part of the system to collect potential and then fired that through a coil and into the electrolysis part (water capacitor) but as JB would say firing the thing from the negative side. So, it was CAP + to water cap +, water cap - to SCR anode and CAP - to the coil and then to the cathode of the SCR and I was triggering it with a 555 timer (a few other components in there too, but trying to give you a feel for the setup). But, of course, you could also put a battery in there instead of the water cap or even a battery in series with the water cap.

Well, you aren't supposed to get more than about 1.2 volts between plates in water, but my meter was reading roughly 50 V between two plates and I could light a 12V led continuously (at least as far as my eyes could detect) across the terminals of the water capacitor. Kind of strange, because the cap wasn't firing all that fast (I'm a terrible engineer and do not always write every thing down).

But, this was NOT the strange part.

So, i decide that I'm going to hook a battery in series with this water cap so I shut the thing down and then hook up the battery....as I hook up this battery, a huge spark scares the hell out of me. It was about two inches long and was either white or blue, not as brief as one would expect from a "spark", and I about crapped my pants, as I had been doing things like this for a long time and had not seen it before and was so unexpected. Where did that spark come from, and why? There was some real power in there and some HV....I think this was the kind of energy that Tesla/Moray/etc. was generating, but they knew how to produce it whenever they wanted. This is the "real" power for which I have been looking.

I've seen similar bolts of energy a few other times, but do NOT know how I did it. I need to write EVERYTHING down all the time as do we all.

We will eventually find it...may just be 100 years old. This why I consider making one "find" the way (when one DOES KNOW the way) instead of just showing us the way to be such a pain. We might be too old to utilize what we find after we find it and it could be lost again, but such is life and what our "masters" want, i.e. continued slavery, ignorance, conformance and the status quo.

By working together we do have a chance though, so I still have hope.


Leroy

Very interesting Leroy, can you post a sketch of this setup? Any time you get a spark like that, soemthing is happening.

Jeff

[ldissing]

...
http://www.matthewcjones.com/power/Potential.jpg
...
Matt

I like what you've done here. I have not fully digested what is going on, but this IS a way to utilize the inductive response of the battery to the charging that is going on. Can you elaborate on the "system" more, or would you prefer not? What kind of timing is being used, if I may ask?

Leroy

[ldissing]

Very interesting Leroy, can you post a sketch of this setup? Any time you get a spark like that, soemthing is happening.

Jeff

Jeff,

I'm not sure I can (it's a copyrighted circuit). I could draw up the part where I replace the battery with the water cap / coil, but if you have the book entitled "Free Energy Generation" you basically have the schematic. I just placed a water cap in place of the charging battery and on the negative side, placed a coil in series with the SCR cathode to cap -, but, I did run the water cap (with coil in place) for a while (without the battery in series), then upon hook up of the battery into a series connection with the water cap (not sure which one was more positive) ...the spark appeared from somewhere. I know I stopped the spinning wheel, question is, did I stop the 555 timer circuit? And, even if I didn't, the cap was too small and the voltage too small to create that big of a spark. (I was charging the cap to about 100V, I believe.)

I hesitate to say the following: but why not, it is all between friends, right?...

Now I'm a strange ranger (some might say crazy but I don't answer myself), kind of like two entities in the same body...my inner self connected to some higher power but maybe not the "best" connection, i.e. I lose some information in translation from inner to outer self. So take the following idea in consideration of this faulty connection (and the first time I've tried to put it into words and the "thought" ins't totally "alive" yet):

I have this thing in the back of my head that is trying to gel and become a real thought. I hope it can come forth eventually and I can do something with it. I think the thing in the back of my head is trying to say something about differences in potential.

For instance, if you have an antenna 9 feet off the gnd, there is a potential difference between the antenna and the earth. Most say it is 200V/meter, so that would be roughly 600V, right. Now most people have heard or even done this, place a camera flash bulb and cap from the gnd to the antenna, and after a while, you will see the bulb flash. So, the potential is there.

What if were were making and breaking this connection fairly fast...we can do that with semiconductors, no problem. We connect the positive directly to the antenna and the cap - to a semiconductor and use the semiconductor to collect the difference in potential into a capacitor. So, the cap starts at 0V but at a 600V potential relative to gnd. After one connection with the semiconductor device, it converts this potential difference to some "charge" let's say 10V. Now, that the cap neg is not connected to the earth gnd, the negative of the cap is at 600V - 10V = 590V with respect to the gnd. Now we switch again and the cap - is connected to the earth gnd again and we have a change in potential of the cap negative from 590V to 0. It will convert it but most probably better than just connecting the cap between the antenna and earth in a "static" or "fixed" connection. I'm thinking that the potential difference change causes the cap to convert faster...at least that is what is in the back of my mind...I think. But, this is not "normal" hot electron flow, it is something else. The cap can make or cause "hot" electron flow.

This, of course, could be translated into any difference of potential, except that most potential differences are a "hot" electron flow kind of thing, i.e. current is just waiting to kill the dipole.

There is something more in my head but it is still "on the other side". This something relates to capacitors and HV and utilization of it in a different way than we have been doing in this thread...I am still hopeful that it will finally gel and come forth.


Leroy

[ldissing]

PIC circuits/Diodes built in?

@Jeff,

Jeff, I think about your circuits and my circuits and everybody else that puts things on this forum.

You are using the PIC to perform an ADC on the voltages of the batteries. I was wondering if your voltage divider is connected at all times to the PIC, or if you stop what is going on and then check, then restart the other processes?

The reason that I ask is this: on my PIC chip, certain of the analog inputs have diodes that will not allow the voltage to be higher than the PIC, in which case, you might be causing some issues with the spike voltages if the PIC is connected all the time??? I don't know for sure about that, but it seems logical and I only check voltage of my batteries after stopping whatever is creating spikes in the system for several reasons...1.) protection for the PIC, 2) for a "true" reading of the voltage, and 3) to not interfere with the charging that should take place on the battery(ies)?

Something to think about possibly? Could the PIC being tied into the system with diodes short (or redirect) the spike voltages to the PIC power supply instead of the intended "victim" ... the battery?

There was a time when I was using comparators for check voltages (floating supply setup) on the TS but it did not seem to be reliable. I was getting switches when I didn't think I should have been getting them.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

@Jeff,

Jeff, I think about your circuits and my circuits and everybody else that puts things on this forum.

You are using the PIC to perform an ADC on the voltages of the batteries. I was wondering if your voltage divider is connected at all times to the PIC, or if you stop what is going on and then check, then restart the other processes?

The reason that I ask is this: on my PIC chip, certain of the analog inputs have diodes that will not allow the voltage to be higher than the PIC, in which case, you might be causing some issues with the spike voltages if the PIC is connected all the time??? I don't know for sure about that, but it seems logical and I only check voltage of my batteries after stopping whatever is creating spikes in the system for several reasons...1.) protection for the PIC, 2) for a "true" reading of the voltage, and 3) to not interfere with the charging that should take place on the battery(ies)?

Something to think about possibly? Could the PIC being tied into the system with diodes short (or redirect) the spike voltages to the PIC power supply instead of the intended "victim" ... the battery?

There was a time when I was using comparators for check voltages (floating supply setup) on the TS but it did not seem to be reliable. I was getting switches when I didn't think I should have been getting them.

Leroy

Hi Leroy, yes most times I am measuring the voltage accross the divider with the disconnecting the load (pulses). I am having a bit of problems on the inverter 2 cap pulser becuase the signal out of the transformer is inverted. This is causing the voltage to be declining on the pin, as opposed to increasing. Not really to big an issue, except I have to code in reverse, if you know what I mean. Kind of a double negative code statement. I will also most times will put a zener and cap in the divider circuit to prevent spikes and limit the pin vaule to the input Voltage of the chip.

Thanks

Jeff

[Matthew Jones]

I like what you've done here. I have not fully digested what is going on, but this IS a way to utilize the inductive response of the battery to the charging that is going on. Can you elaborate on the "system" more, or would you prefer not? What kind of timing is being used, if I may ask?
Leroy

I don't got a lotta test data I just put it together one day and watched it run. I was surprised to find I could power everything without a direct load on the system somewhere.
Basically its just a normal 3 battery switch except it goes in both directions. Each directions powers a coil of its own. The spike and step up voltage from those 2 coils generate onto the next 2 coils while hitting a single battery. The top Batteries in the arrangement get pretty full (Charged up) after a long run. That power then shift down to the batteries everytime you go series. So they keep each other in check.
The lower batteries have a low potential so when the generated voltage from the secondary coils get rectified and dropped in a capacitor we get a difference of about 6 volt potential. Then we pulse it back through coil into the battery. The secondaries on that coil get rectified and dumped into cap in which we can pull a load. Driving the switching, and in addition A VERY SMALL light bulb at full bright.

The top batterries after about 4 hours stayed at or around 13.7 volt and the bottom stayed around 12v to 12.2. They jump up and down so its hard to tell exactly.

Overall I probably lost a little from the run but most of the loss comes when you shut it off. It didn't really do any amount of work. But it impressed me cause it ran 7 days and the voltages stayed about the same when it was running.

I just used my little stamp chip and I drove the Optos at 200us/ Micro seconds
"PulseOut Pin# 200" was the command.

I got myself into deep working at the moment with house to finish by the end of the month and an Interior of a Bar to do, but when I get it cleared up I am going to try a 6 strand coil and see if I can charge batteries.

Cheers
Matt

[ldissing]

Hi Leroy, yes most times I am measuring the voltage accross the divider with the disconnecting the load (pulses). I am having a bit of problems on the inverter 2 cap pulser becuase the signal out of the transformer is inverted. This is causing the voltage to be declining on the pin, as opposed to increasing. Not really to big an issue, except I have to code in reverse, if you know what I mean. Kind of a double negative code statement. I will also most times will put a zener and cap in the divider circuit to prevent spikes and limit the pin vaule to the input Voltage of the chip.

Thanks

Jeff

Okay, and that is kind of my point...If you always have the PIC connected to the divider (I don't), then the zener/cap is either (dumping/storing) the pulse that you really want the battery to see. I'm using an OPTO to keep it disconnected (except when I want it connected) and it will not interfere with "normal" operation, i.e. no effect at all on the running machine. Does that make sense. I'm just throwing it out for your possible benefit....if it is a benefit is up to you to decide.

Thx for the reply,

Leroy

[ldissing]

I don't got a lotta test data I just put it together one day and watched it run. I was surprised to find I could power everything without a direct load on the system somewhere.
Basically its just a normal 3 battery switch except it goes in both directions. Each directions powers a coil of its own. The spike and step up voltage from those 2 coils generate onto the next 2 coils while hitting a single battery. The top Batteries in the arrangement get pretty full (Charged up) after a long run. That power then shift down to the batteries everytime you go series. So they keep each other in check.
The lower batteries have a low potential so when the generated voltage from the secondary coils get rectified and dropped in a capacitor we get a difference of about 6 volt potential. Then we pulse it back through coil into the battery. The secondaries on that coil get rectified and dumped into cap in which we can pull a load. Driving the switching, and in addition A VERY SMALL light bulb at full bright.

The top batterries after about 4 hours stayed at or around 13.7 volt and the bottom stayed around 12v to 12.2. They jump up and down so its hard to tell exactly.

Overall I probably lost a little from the run but most of the loss comes when you shut it off. It didn't really do any amount of work. But it impressed me cause it ran 7 days and the voltages stayed about the same when it was running.

I just used my little stamp chip and I drove the Optos at 200us/ Micro seconds
"PulseOut Pin# 200" was the command.

I got myself into deep working at the moment with house to finish by the end of the month and an Interior of a Bar to do, but when I get it cleared up I am going to try a 6 strand coil and see if I can charge batteries.

Cheers
Matt

Thx Matt. Good to know what was happening. So the pulse width was 200us, and the delay between pulses, or on to the next opto driver immediately?

Leroy