Use for the Tesla Switch

[Sobakin]

Update:
Baseline test (4 batts in parallel) done.
Batteries discharges to 10.5V (under load) thru 10W bulb for 7 hours 10 minutes.
Using Matt's TS they holds for 4 hours. Why?
First, transformer's output voltage before rectified on charged batteries is more than 15V - its +20% to load, because higher voltage on transformer's output = higher current to transformer's input.
Also some losses in transformer, maybe about 20% too. in summary we have about +45% to load.
Allowing that batterie's discharge time is non-linear function of load (known than loads higher than C20 ampers can't consume full ampere-hours from battery), we have 4 hours TS vs 7 hours without TS.
However, my 6-switch TS without transformer and rectifier (which is not needing for lightbulb) shown same results as parallel batteries. With rectifier result would be same, but minus about 0.8 - 1V (two times of voltage drop at shottkey doides, which I used) bulb would light a bit dimmer.

[ehsanco1062]

Ok, so I know less about the Stamp than I thought I did. Having trouble getting it to work, and I'm pretty sure it's just me. I can run the basic program which is the first program in the instruction book, but when I try to test my circuits (through connections on the Homework Board) nothing happens. So either
1. I don't have my wires for pin one and pin two plugged into the correct place on the board or....
2. Something is wired wrong somewhere else
I'll go with door number one, since I checked all the connections a half dozen times and even traced each connection out and then marked over it on the schematic with a highlighter so I could make sure everything was hooked up right.

Attached is a picture, and I will hit the book again to see if there is anything there that will help me figure this out. Sooner or later I'll get it.

Hi David
I have notice in your picture that you are using one capacitor is it 50000mf or its 1000mf cause Matt mention in his guide that we should use 5x10000mf
so if its only 10000mf is working good or we need to make it 50000mf.

Thanks
Ehsan

[Matthew Jones]

Did You never use gel SLA batteries? But 4-7 A-h batteries, which mostly using by us (in UPS etc) and which You are recommending for small TS in your PDF are all gel SLA, my 1.3 A-h too, they only smaller.

I have 6 Lead acid batteries that have fluid in them at 4.5 amp hour. Thats what I use. Eagle Picher. I brought them back from the dead with a monopole.

I don't think I have ever used a gel cell, or an AGM type battery. I wasn't aware that MOST batteries that size are SLA Gels.

I know my big batteries although "maintenance free" have fluid as well and they run great. But they have never known anything but a TS. They have never been run in any other way.

This may skew my results to some extent but I think John K is right about gel's. I have heard this before. And complaints.

Motor cycle batteries might be a good option for a small battery.

Matt

[citfta]

Batteries

I posted this once before but I don't remember what thread. I also found that the sealed gel cells or SLAB's just didn't work nearly as well as real flooded cell batteries. I needed some small batteries to test an earlier version of the TS. I went to my local recycling place and asked if they would sell me some of their batteries they had taken in. They said yes as long as I understood they might be no good. I bought 6 of the small lawn and garden tractor type batteries for 30 dollars. 4 of them came back to life with my monopole. A pretty good deal for 30 bucks. I also found out they didn't care if I wanted to test them first. The next time I need some I will take an auto headlight bulb with me. If they light the bulb at all they can probably be brought back to life if the plates haven't been damaged.

[Rl2003]

I have been using the SLA 12v 8ah batteries for a while and they seem to
work fairly well for these experments. They are normal dry or have very little
acid in them, so I removed the plastic cover and added 10cc of battery acid(per cell).
You can get it at most auto part shops, But be Careful.. Safety first Wear protective gear..

Mark

[Turion]

Carroll,
Thanks for the info. I figured the pulses would have to be in milliseconds rather than microseconds for that transformer after I ran it up in milliseconds as far as I could. Thanks for the code too. I had already written something for the Stamp that is almost the same. I have also written code for the Stamp (with the help of a friend...which means he basically wrote it while I peeked over his shoulder and told him what I wanted it to do) that will read the voltage and either change the pulse width to give you the highest voltage output, or change the pulse width to try and get to a specific voltage output on either the AC or DC side. He is in his 60's and has been programming since his teens, and in a variety of programming languages, so this was a snap for him. Right now my only issue is finding the right analogue to digital converter that will work with the Stamp, and coming up with the best voltage divider circuit to get the output voltage down to the range that the ADC can handle. That part is my biggest worry since I have seen anywhere from 9 to 70 volts output and a divider circuit that works on the lower voltage won't work on the higher one and bring it within the correct range. But if this were easy, everyone would have one. I'm remodeling my house too! What a pain THAT can be. When the weather is good I work on the outside, but when it's bad I work on the inside projects. Luckily (???) I am unemployed right now, so I have the time for BOTH. Now I have time and limited money, and if I go back to work I'll have money and no time. I'm not sure which I'll like better.

elsanco1060,
I had one cap connected just to make sure everything was running correctly. The minute I got it working, I connected all five caps just like Matt told us to do. As fast as I have seen this thing fill up caps, I would not advise running it with only one cap.

Matt,
I finally completed my first run, not because my batteries died, but because I want to go to BED! I'm always up by 4:00 AM, so 10:00 is bedtime for me, and then I usually end up not being able to go to sleep. I think tonight is going to be one of those nights. Too excited. Anyway, here's my data

Baseline
Running a 12 volt light at .97 amps.
12:11 Start time
Batt 1--12.52 volts
Batt 2--12.60 volts
Batt 3--12.57volts.
Batt 4--12.52 volts

Batteries wired in parallel and each battery run down to 12.25 volts. When the battery reached that voltage it was pulled and put on the charger for phase two.
2:28 End time, at which time all four batteries were at 12.25 volts
2 hours and 17 minute run

All batteries were charged up and allowed to set for at least an hour
4:14 start time 8:00 end time 3 Hours and 45 Minutes run
Batt 1--12.53 volts ended at 12.36
Batt 2--12.59 volts ended at 12.42
Batt 3--12.57 volts ended at 12.48
Batt 4--12.53 volts ended at 12.43

I'm pretty happy to get almost an hour and a half longer run, and have my battery voltage hang in there. Now that I have a baseline, I will charge them all up again in the morning and run it until all four batteries are down to 12.25 as I had intended, even if it takes all day.

My big transformer came today!! Woo Hoo!! Now to find some #14 magnet wire! Found some #15, locally, but no 14 yet.


David
_________________________

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer

I aim to misbehave. - Malcolm Reynolds

[Matthew Jones]

Turion

You play with those numbers a bit for timing and remember watch the action in the battery like Jeff showed in video. You can get those numbers up. Every load and setup are different, so they are going to tune in different. Now that you have setup that is working well, watch it and start feeling it out.
I don't how to explain it but your gonna feeling about your system and you'll start to know whats what. Thats how it is for me now. I have just learned to watch the meters and the scope on occasion and soon you see a pattern.

MCP3208 ADC chip.

This one is easy to use. The bit calls are pretty straight forward. But to get the actual voltage out you will need to run a Coprocessor to do the math on it and get the actual text value.

Now you could get rid of that need by switching to a propeller which is a true 32 processor. It can read the 3208 real easy.

But if you use the stamp the digital signal is 1 - 4096. So from that you can come up with some tricky code to determine where you stand. Make a scale of the voltages at that point, and use the digital output to make the comparison so you can tune it.

Once you understand and see what data comes out you'll understand what I am talking about.

Cheers
Matt

[Sobakin]

Matt,
how warm or cold your transformer during TS working on load?
Is it working in saturated zone or not?
I found that if I decrease frequency far below the designed for my transformer and count of wire turns in it, output voltage get highest than at any higher (normal) frequencies, but battery voltage drops, i.e., consumption current gets much higher.
When I increase frequency, voltage drops, then may raise very little, tnen drops further.
My transformer designed for minimum 200Hz, works good at 150 too, but lower than 100Hz gets into saturation and starts warming, at 200Hz and more it warm just a bit.

[Sobakin]

Anybody tried something like that?
It is 3-battery 3-tact TS with symmetric load on each battery.
First tact - batteries 1 and 2 in series thru load charges battery 3 (SW1 horisontal, SW2 & SW3 vertical)
Second tact - batt 2 and 3 in series thru load charges batt 1 (SW2 horisontal, SW1 & SW3 vertical)
Third tact - batt 3 and 1 in series charges thru load batt 1 (SW3 horisontal, SW1 & SW2 vertical)
With microcontroller (mentioned here PIC or Stamp etc) and 6 mosfets it's pretty easy to build.

[Turion]

Matt,
I'm definitely getting the Propeller if I make it to the point where I need a microprocessor to run the "Big" system, but I'm sure there are other expenses in doing that, and I need to prioritize. I have something that will work fairly well for right now, and when I have to have something better, I'll fork out the bucks for it. The Propeller board I was looking at is like $140.00, and that's the cost of a spool of #14, which I need right now to rewind my new transformer. But I'll get there. One way or another. If my wife goes out one morning and her car is missing, you'll know I've gone too far.

I watched Jeff's video several times. Makes sense to tune it that way before you add the transformer into the circuit. I got a late start on charging my batteries today, so may not even start a run until in the morning, when I don't have to shut it down for a whole day. I think I'll see if I can't just work on tuning it a little better this afternoon, top my batteries off, and fire it up first thing in the morning.

I've been making the assumption that once the system is tuned for a specific load, you don't need to retune unless the load changes, but the program my buddy wrote for me reads the output voltage at set intervals ad makes adjustments to the pulse width based on that reading. I assumed this would be necessary if you were running a variable load, say a car motor that you wanted to speed up to go up a hill. Just thinking out loud.

[Turion]

Matt,
I watched Jeff's video about five times and then went and played around with my setup. Here's what I THINK I am seeing, which is why I am asking. Playing with the pulse width gets you to 3rd base, but if you want to get all the way home, you need to watch the batteries and how they behave. There seems to be a place where the charge RATE goes up, and it doesn't necessarily align with exactly the numbers that give you the highest voltage output. It is something you just have to carefully watch the batteries to figure out. Does this sound like I'm on the right track? You just have to have some patience, make small adjustments, and watch to see what happens. Patience, patience, patience. Is this what Jeff found that caused the flickering light to become steady? All we see in the video is that he changed the pulse rate. I'll be getting a couple lights like he had to test that idea with, but first I wanted to see if I could see any differences by making small adjustments and watching my battery voltages.

David

[redeagle]

Regarding replications of Matt's ts. Has any one tried running power back into the system from the transformer? One thing i've noticed is that when I try to add additional charge to the system, It draws the capacitor on the transformer output below the voltage of the battery it is charging. Why is that? I can't find anything wrong with the circuitry that could cause the reduced voltage.

Note: After rectifying the current it passes through additional diodes to keep the batteries from shorting to each other.

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,
how warm or cold your transformer during TS working on load?
Is it working in saturated zone or not?

I run small transformer at 50/60 hz. Thats what it is designed to do. It run cool unless I overload it.
The big one also runs cool and I have not been able to get the power out of it so far to make it heat up. Also 50/60 hz. But I have gone higher if the load likes it. No heat.

Matt,
It is something you just have to carefully watch the batteries to figure out. Does this sound like I'm on the right track?
David

Yep. Its just a matter of watching everything. Tuning the greatest voltage to the load is just a start. Then you tune to a balance of good load and good charging or lower discharging.
I can always find a good balance of both and the get the work done and keep the batteries up.

Regarding replications of Matt's ts. Has any one tried running power back into the system from the transformer? One thing i've noticed is that when I try to add additional charge to the system, It draws the capacitor on the transformer output below the voltage of the battery it is charging. Why is that? I can't find anything wrong with the circuitry that could cause the reduced voltage.

Use a diode between the cap and the battery. That should keep the cap voltage above the battery.
The better way to do it though is the same thing you see in the system. Drive the potential up at the tranformer (IE 24 volt off the secondary) Run that through the load and back to a 12 volt battery so you have 12 volt of potential between the 2 sides. Skip the cap all together.

Its not as easy as it sounds though. Also just use the top batteries to dump into as they are most likely to capture and keep the power.

Matt

[Turion]

Matt,
I saw the difference yesterday, I'm sure I will get better at it with practice, and faster. I was thinking of using the two buttons that came with my Stamp Homework Board and writing code so that when you push one button the pulse width would go up a set amount, and when you push the other button the pulse width would go down a set interval. It would make tuning a whole lot easier than retyping the number on the computer every time. And then maybe a display of what my current pulse width is.....and it never ends does it?

Having watched the forums for a few years before ever participating I KNOW one of the themes of the detractors in regards to Bedini's work has been complaints from people who couldn't tune properly. Mostly because they want something given to them on a platter and aren't willing to work for it. I love that this requires some of that because I know that there are a whole lot of people who will just throw up their hands in disgust because they aren't willing to do that kind of work and don't believe in anything they can't dial in using a meter.

But I also know that with the right microprocessor and the right input from the batteries, you can write code that will do all this FOR you, and while I'm not a genius at writing code, I live in an area where geniuses abound, and have many friends who ARE. The human brain is pretty good at taking a look at the data and making adjustments, but the computer is pretty good too, if it has been programed correctly.

And my Stamp doesn't have the firepower to do all the things I want to be able to do with it, so looks like I'll be ordering the Propeller just a little sooner than I had planned! LOL

David

[ren]

If its any help to anyone I have found that MOTs (microwave oven transformers) are very easy to split open, and the primaries may even be useful. Working on one now.

Regards