Use for the Tesla Switch

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Here is my results

YouTube - Tesla Switch test 1.MPG
Batt 1
Start: 12.38
5 Min: 12.09
End: 12.24
Batt 2
Start: 12.52
5 Min: 12.23
End: 12.42
Batt 3
Start: 12.5
5 Min: 13.9
End: 12.9

I then switched batt 1 with batt 3 and re-ran the test;
Batt 1(was 3)
Start: 12.72
5 Min: 12.45
End: 12.26
Batt 2
Start: 12.50
5 Min: 12.20
End: 12.19
Batt 3(was 1)
Start: 12.4
5 Min: 13.5
End: 12.9

Thanks
Bit's

[ren]

Hi John,

Its great to have you here! I really like the Tesla switch you have there, looking forward to seeing what it can do.

I was pondering building the circuit you posted here. I have all the parts, I have a question on the flip flop however.

What sort of speeds should be used here? Are we talking 60 cycles per second or faster/slower? Or does it depend on what sort of load is placed in the circuit?

And does there need to be a dead time between phases to prevent complications?

Regards

Shanan

nvisser,
The three battery system is just a test to show the switching. So here see if you can get this circuit to work and charge it's own battery. The load must be chosen correctly so the battery is in a state of constant charge. The famous Bill and Ray Scalar charger. Charger is the one I talked about on KABC with Bill Jenkins. Drive it with a flip flop oscillator you can control the speed. Give this a try MR. Jones, I have one of these running at work. If your not careful it will destroy your battery. Also if you take this battery out of the system it will be real hard to charge with a normal charger.
John B

[John_K]

Wow, that is awesome resting voltage. I have seen many people attempt this but have not seen those type of numbers before.

May I ask what type of battery did you use in this test ( Amp hours brand )

Thanks for sharing.

theremart,

The batteries I used for the test are a generic 12V 7Ah gele-cell, made in China. The type normally used as alarm system backup batteries. They've been used and abused on many projects, but are usually re-charged with a RC-1AU.

John K.

[ldissing]

SCR using PNPs

@John Bedini,

I did want to let you know that I did get the scalar charger to work with PNPs, I think. I just used the 2955s as the transistors and H11D1s for the optos, but it did work with the diagram on your web site. I used my own 50% pulse generator, but it worked just fine for me. It will bounce a bad battery around, that is for sure.

I said, "I think" above, because it did not seem to discharge the upper cap for some reason, so maybe the NPNs are better, but it would light a light and when scoping the battery (a bad one) it was bouncing all over the place.

Regards,
Leroy

nvisser,
The famous Bill and Ray Scalar charger. Charger is the one I talked about on KABC with Bill Jenkins. Drive it with a flip flop oscillator you can control the speed.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

nvisser,
Yes you can use 2n3055 transistors, don't need PNP's.
John B

Thank you John
Will it still work if i dont use the MJL21194?
I see it is a update on the scaler battery charger on your old website.THE TESLA SWITCH
I always wanted to build it but the pnp transistors sounded like very small transistors and I thought they will blow immediately. I thougt it was bc108`s, that small tin transistors!! You said on the website that something looked wrong and that you never tried it so I left it
Now this circuit looks worth building. I will start on Monday when I can get my hands on some components
I suppose the toggle frequency should be low to allow the parralel capacitors to charge up properly to 12v before it dicharges in series?
So it looks like the load has to be chosen so that the battery is in constant charge but not overcharging?

I noticed that the opto, transistor setup is the same as on the TS photo you posted with the diode and cap to the base

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

Shanan,
Go as slow as you can to get it running, but the new PWM's may give you trouble unless you have a older on. The reason that I do not use a PIC chip is they blow up very easy from the back charge and they need to be grounded where you do not want them. The PIC would be an easy program though for this operation. you could try it if you know the PIC and have the programmer, I would keep it analog right now to get it working.
John B

Hi John,

Its great to have you here! I really like the Tesla switch you have there, looking forward to seeing what it can do.

I was pondering building the circuit you posted here. I have all the parts, I have a question on the flip flop however.

What sort of speeds should be used here? Are we talking 60 cycles per second or faster/slower? Or does it depend on what sort of load is placed in the circuit?

And does there need to be a dead time between phases to prevent complications?

Regards

Shanan

[ren]

Thanks John.

I have used the TL494 in 180 degree out of phases before, or I have a CD4047 here that I never used. Im not sure if the latter has much frequency control. Anyway, you state that the older PWMs are better. I was even thinking one could build a simple mechanical timing unit pretty easily. Much like the hall sensors on a bipolar circuit.

You say you have trouble with the PIC chips blowing etc....because of the back charge, I assume this occurs only when the PIC chip is coupled to the same and only battery shown, ie. the one that is charging itself?

Would you recommend using another source to run the PIC or PWM for the time being, just to ensure its all running correctly, before directly connecting it the the charge/only battery?

Many thanks

Shan

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

PIC Oscillator

Thanks John.

I have used the TL494 in 180 degree out of phases before, or I have a CD4047 here that I never used. Im not sure if the latter has much frequency control. Anyway, you state that the older PWMs are better. I was even thinking one could build a simple mechanical timing unit pretty easily. Much like the hall sensors on a bipolar circuit.

You say you have trouble with the PIC chips blowing etc....because of the back charge, I assume this occurs only when the PIC chip is coupled to the same and only battery shown, ie. the one that is charging itself?

Would you recommend using another source to run the PIC or PWM for the time being, just to ensure its all running correctly, before directly connecting it the the charge/only battery?

Many thanks

Shan

Ren, et /All

Here is a quick vid showing the PIC and making into an oscillator;

YouTube - Oscillator 001.mpg

And the simple code that code be used;

main:
pulsout 4,10000 ‘ send a pulse out of pin 4
pulsout 3,10000 ‘ send a pulse out of pin 3
pause 20 ‘ pause 20 ms
goto main ‘ loop back to start

This is just an illustration for what I am working on. As it matures, I'll add more logic to control the pulses.

Thanks

Bit's

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

Bit's-n-Bytes,
I have a PIC 18F2423 which I'm going to try and use. I do have the programmer for this type do you think this one will work the same.
I'm not the worlds best programmer but I'm going to give it a try. This PIC has more functions I think, may need some help on this one. Forgive me I'm just an analog guy.
John B

Ren, et /All

Here is a quick vid showing the PIC and making into an oscillator;

YouTube - Oscillator 001.mpg

And the simple code that code be used;

main:
pulsout 4,10000 ‘ send a pulse out of pin 4
pulsout 3,10000 ‘ send a pulse out of pin 3
pause 20 ‘ pause 20 ms
goto main ‘ loop back to start

This is just an illustration for what I am working on. As it matures, I'll add more logic to control the pulses.

Thanks

Bit's

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Bit's-n-Bytes,
I have a PIC 18F2423 which I'm going to try and use. I do have the programmer for this type do you think this one will work the same.
I'm not the worlds best programmer but I'm going to give it a try. This PIC has more functions I think, may need some help on this one. Forgive me I'm just an analog guy.
John B

John, let me do some research on that chip. Your work is truly an inspiration to many. I'll give you all the assist I can.
Thanks

Jeff

[Inquorate]

Analog digital mechanical

@John_Bedini - nice to hear you're more at home with analog, and the digital stuff is a learning curve.

For me, mechanical is my heart's home, and analog is the learning curve.

Anyhoo the following may help people visualize what is happening if they can't yet picture how the TS works.

Also I've figured out a way to do the switching with a 555 timer;

I think I've worked out how the tesla switch works by visualizing the mechanical switch Ted made; the copper bars can be likened to transistors - just watch it running in your mind.

One and two transistors fire, then two and one transistors fire.

Ben's rotating switch - Heretical Builders

Now I've been wondering how to run the (2 groups of three) transistors alternately..

YouTube - signal generator 555 timer based with 0 to 100% pulse width control

Using the 555 timer, with solid state relays or opto couplers instead of the LED's should work a treat and isolate the 555 from the spikes.

PCB Mount Solid State Relay 5V - Jaycar Electronics

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Bit's-n-Bytes,
I have a PIC 18F2423 which I'm going to try and use. I do have the programmer for this type do you think this one will work the same.
I'm not the worlds best programmer but I'm going to give it a try. This PIC has more functions I think, may need some help on this one. Forgive me I'm just an analog guy.
John B

John, that chip should work just fine although some of the commands maybe a touch different.

18X
PULSIN Measure pulse width on a pin.
PULSOUT Generate pulse to a pin.

18F2423
HPWM Output hardware pulse width modulated pulse train
PWM Output pulse width modulated pulse train to pin

Thanks.

[ldissing]

Programming

Bit's-n-Bytes,
I have a PIC 18F2423 which I'm going to try and use. I do have the programmer for this type do you think this one will work the same.
I'm not the worlds best programmer but I'm going to give it a try. This PIC has more functions I think, may need some help on this one. Forgive me I'm just an analog guy.
John B

John,

I'm a EE (digital), unfortunately, I've been programming for 30 years. If you want ANY help AT ALL, I'm at your service. I can program anything, so let me know and I'll be all on it.

I've done machine language, assembly language, great with interrupts, anything low level, or high level for that matter.

Anything you need,

Leroy

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

Bit's-n-Bytes, Leroy,
I think what we must do is replace the SG1524 with a Pic and just have the pic do some analog functions with a pot at the ADCIN pin by turning the pot we should be able to adjust the switching speed. I think we can go from 1Hz to 5Khz and get the correct time. I know that most will not be able to program the chip so we must make it very simple to do. I also notice these chips have a de-bug pin where we can watch the program run. I'm not sure it can be done that simple but I'm willing to give it a try with you guys if you want to do that. It also looks like we could build a circuit to charge a capacitor to run the chip at the same time. If I'm correct nothing over 5 volts on any of the pins. Let me know if you guys have the spare time to do this, as I know we all must work.
John B

John,

I'm a EE (digital), unfortunately, I've been programming for 30 years. If you want ANY help AT ALL, I'm at your service. I can program anything, so let me know and I'll be all on it.

I've done machine language, assembly language, great with interrupts, anything low level, or high level for that matter.

Anything you need,

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Bit's-n-Bytes, Leroy,
I think what we must do is replace the SG1524 with a Pic and just have the pic do some analog functions with a pot at the ADCIN pin by turning the pot we should be able to adjust the switching speed. I think we can go from 1Hz to 5Khz and get the correct time. I know that most will not be able to program the chip so we must make it very simple to do. I also notice these chips have a de-bug pin where we can watch the program run. I'm not sure it can be done that simple but I'm willing to give it a try with you guys if you want to do that. It also looks like we could build a circuit to charge a capacitor to run the chip at the same time. If I'm correct nothing over 5 volts on any of the pins. Let me know if you guys have the spare time to do this, as I know we all must work.
John B

Count me in John, just give us the parameters or algorithm we need to strive for and consider it done.
Thanks

Jeff