Use for the Tesla Switch

[ldissing]

Perhaps

Actually I think I have too much voltage, I have 16 somthing volt over the battery. But I wanna power the switch with the circuit.
I actually have one running, I posted it a while back, transistor and relay based and runs synced to a prototype motor that has been going for about 4.5 months now. Its at a friends garage. Him and me built it so I could prove to him how these things work. It about on its last leg though.
We'll see how this one does with a little better prototype motor on it.

Now that I have got the switching working with ease I am gonna work on the the scalar charger I built. Start that next weekend or so. I got try that too.

Matt

Cheers
Matt

Matt, I saw those little batteries in the picture. Perhaps you are using >c20 on those little batteries with that motor. Try batteries that will match of exceed the current you are drawing ... or try a motor that will draw < the C20 of THOSE batteries.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Come on, don't you guys remember, Louis lane and Jimmy Olson was being held by some crooks. Then Superman shows up and charges the dead radio batteries with a lighting bolt and saves the day. Oh I forgot some of you may not be that old, I'm dating myself. JB

I do remember, watching it, in black and white of course. We even had remotes for the TV back then (I was the remote and would turn the channel or volume up and down when told) , Thank god for technology.

Bit's

[ldissing]

1 amp

Leroy,
You got that right 186,000 poungs of parts, and tubes too.
JB

If you have a promotional running, where I can have 10 minutes to grab all the parts I can put in my cart....I'm there.

Seriously though, I dying here...not being able to do anything. Everyone is wondering about this 1 amp at DC. You've said it over and over again. We need 1 amp minimum going through the transistor and then we need to switch it fast...off. So, even in the Tesla switch, this is a requirement. Why when I have a really small current, do I get the batteries to recharge? Just based on potential right and in this case, the transistors aren't running at 1 amp DC, so why does that work?

Had to ask?

Leroy

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch 1amp at DC

Leroy,
The 1 amp at DC is very important in the devices you pick to switch with.
Example, if you choose a device that can not make at least 1 amp at the voltage you decide to use the device at, it will fail. Working all these years with switching I have learned what must be done when choosing transistors, the same goes for Fet's. A little back ground, early out of school, working for a transistor manufacture I was to develop transistors for audio and switching. Some of the first audio devices survived under extreme loads, like 1.8 ohm speaker loads( That is a motor). The amplifiers that lived under these conditions were able with the correct transistors to run these loads all day long. The devices that were used then, the RCA 1B05's which was a Harris semiconductor with the RCA label on it.

When we looked at the transistors they could make 1amp at DC under the voltage they were switching at (140V). The SOA chart is the only thing you need to understand for switching, the audio is not the important thing here we are just using the transistor for a switch, but the switching speed must be also fast, say 4Mhz min Ft. The MJL transistor fit's the bill. You just need to look at the voltage you want to use and draw a line up to the DC line. The worst thing you can do is cause the transistor to go into cross conduction current at high frequency, it just can't turn off then and the chip will melt at 200c. I use very low frequency until I get things working I like to watch the circuit switch under load, high frequency may do something much different. Hope this helps.... (batteries are very low impedance .0023 Ohms, most)
JB

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch 1amp at DC

Leroy,
MJL device
JB

[lamare]

Tesla Switch 1amp at DC

This is the curve for the TIP-122 (and some more). I bought a couple of these for experimenting with the TS. I selected them only by looking at the maximum rated current (5 A) and the allowed CE voltage (100 V) in combination with the price (EUR 0,67). I figured 5A would be more then enough for my purposes, switching 9V NiMh batteries.

According to this figure, one could safely use them up to 40V at 1 amp DC, so these may be interesting for others, too. (In comparison: the 2N3055 sells at 1,75 EUR at the same shop...)

Source of figure: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...a0uhkg817y.pdf

[Matthew Jones]

Matt, I saw those little batteries in the picture. Perhaps you are using >c20 on those little batteries with that motor. Try batteries that will match of exceed the current you are drawing ... or try a motor that will draw < the C20 of THOSE batteries.

I figure the motor came with 2 batts this size in series, It was out of a scooter. Its probably close.
But my question would have to be... Whats the c20 rate for a 350 watt motor drawing off of 2x 5 amp hour 12 volt batteries in series, ON A potential only system?.


Matt

[lamare]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for this article. In it, it is said that Baldinelli invented a burgler alarm that could be built into a door knob and also that Baldinelli held a patent on the present device.
Well I found three of his patent on the door knob alarm from the 1965-68 era, all three patents include the same topic, a signalling device built into a door knob.

It appears the Baldinellis commercialised this:

Locktronics, Inc. Company Profile - Located in Winter Springs, FL - Baldinelli Jergensonhelen, Alfred B Baldinelli, Cheryl E Cook, Fred B Baldinelli

If this is the same Fred Baldinelly, then this may be his children:
Alfred B Baldinelli - Profile on CorporationWiki.com
Baldinelli Jergensonhelen - Profile on CorporationWiki.com

And it may also be that his mother recently passed away:
Catherine Domenici Death Notice: Catherine Domenici’s Obituary by the The Boston Globe.

These may be interesting leads, perhaps his children know more about this...

[ldissing]

Leroy,
The 1 amp at DC is very important in the devices you pick to switch with.
Example, if you choose a device that can not make at least 1 amp at the voltage you decide to use the device at, it will fail. Working all these years with switching I have learned what must be done when choosing transistors, the same goes for Fet's. A little back ground, early out of school, working for a transistor manufacture I was to develop transistors for audio and switching. Some of the first audio devices survived under extreme loads, like 1.8 ohm speaker loads( That is a motor). The amplifiers that lived under these conditions were able with the correct transistors to run these loads all day long. The devices that were used then, the RCA 1B05's which was a Harris semiconductor with the RCA label on it.

When we looked at the transistors they could make 1amp at DC under the voltage they were switching at (140V). The SOA chart is the only thing you need to understand for switching, the audio is not the important thing here we are just using the transistor for a switch, but the switching speed must be also fast, say 4Mhz min Ft. The MJL transistor fit's the bill. You just need to look at the voltage you want to use and draw a line up to the DC line. The worst thing you can do is cause the transistor to go into cross conduction current at high frequency, it just can't turn off then and the chip will melt at 200c. I use very low frequency until I get things working I like to watch the circuit switch under load, high frequency may do something much different. Hope this helps.... (batteries are very low impedance .0023 Ohms, most)
JB

@JB,

I will read this many times, and think on it until I can work on it. Appreciate the insights more than you know.

[ldissing]

I figure the motor came with 2 batts this size in series, It was out of a scooter. Its probably close.
But my question would have to be... Whats the c20 rate for a 350 watt motor drawing off of 2x 5 amp hour 12 volt batteries in series, ON A potential only system?.


Matt

Well, if the motor will not run for 20 hours, then it is drawing too much current from the batteries.

You make a huge assumption. I have a lawn mower (robotic), it will run for 4-5 hours according to their specs 2 12V 17ah batteries in series. That thing and the charging (their charger) waste those batteries so fast it makes your head spin. I don't use their charger anymore, if I did, I might was well just light some money on fire. It draws way to much current for those little batteries.


It does not matter what wattage is on the motor, that is at max torque, but you do not run it at max torque. What matters is what the batteries like. They are living things.

Your little 5 amp batteries would be 5/20 = 250 ma MAX

If you are running it at 4 amps, then you should be using 4*20=80amp hour batteries, and it will charge those puppies up at 4 amps. You have to be heating those batteries up, causing quite a sulphation if you've used them for very long on that motor. The more you do that, the more sulphation will build up.

I hope JB says I'm wrong on this one, but he runs his batteries at C20 or below....I guarantee.

Leroy

****EDIT**** You could probably use 4 40amp hr batteries since they are only on 1/2 the time, but 80s would be better.

[lamare]

OFF-topic: Steorn

I know this is off-topic here, but it appears as though Steorn's "Orbo" stuff looks a lot like JB's:

Steorn's e-Orbo self-looped electromagnetic motor demonstration underway

"According to the explanation video, the e-Orbo consists of two components. The first component is a motor that looks like a traditional pulse motor in which an energy reservoir (the D-cell battery in this case) that energizes the coils to push the magnets causing rotation. A Reed switch determines when the pulse will fire. This particular configuration is unique in that it allegedly is generating 2 joules of energy of rotation for every 1 joule of energy consumed from the battery. "

"The rectification circuit is basically just a diode."

@JB: you may want to keep an eye on this, especially since they may be infringing on your patents....

[StevanC]

Leroy,
You got that right 186,000 pounds of parts, and tubes too.
JB

A JOY to dip in for a moment
I know what I will dream about now on

[ldissing]

Leroy,
The 1 amp at DC is very important in the devices you pick to switch with.
Example, if you choose a device that can not make at least 1 amp at the voltage you decide to use the device at, it will fail. Working all these years with switching I have learned what must be done when choosing transistors, the same goes for Fet's. A little back ground, early out of school, working for a transistor manufacture I was to develop transistors for audio and switching. Some of the first audio devices survived under extreme loads, like 1.8 ohm speaker loads( That is a motor). The amplifiers that lived under these conditions were able with the correct transistors to run these loads all day long. The devices that were used then, the RCA 1B05's which was a Harris semiconductor with the RCA label on it.

When we looked at the transistors they could make 1amp at DC under the voltage they were switching at (140V). The SOA chart is the only thing you need to understand for switching, the audio is not the important thing here we are just using the transistor for a switch, but the switching speed must be also fast, say 4Mhz min Ft. The MJL transistor fit's the bill. You just need to look at the voltage you want to use and draw a line up to the DC line. The worst thing you can do is cause the transistor to go into cross conduction current at high frequency, it just can't turn off then and the chip will melt at 200c. I use very low frequency until I get things working I like to watch the circuit switch under load, high frequency may do something much different. Hope this helps.... (batteries are very low impedance .0023 Ohms, most)
JB

JB,

I now believe that I know EXACTLY what you are saying. Thanks.

Leroy

[StevanC]

My 2c

JB,

I now believe that I know EXACTLY what you are saying. Thanks.

Leroy

Originally they might been seeking for "solid state" replacement for relay and mechanical switching.

The BJT came first (compared to MOSFET)

They learned how to pick a device they could tell in advance "it can handle it indefinitely"

it's the SOA @1A for the peak
And the SOA @<rated voltage> current handling capability of the device.
Much less than the absolute maximal ratings we look at usually.

And the there came MOSFETs with their 25ns edges

And then came even faster MOSFETs with 9ns edges (LoL!)

And they where just fried away in the "solid state" relay until they just put a diode to burn that "excess" to ground ( dam you "excess" energy! )

And then they used to just fry all and called it "heat dissipation" and made it common.

And then they got the ultra low RdsON MOSFETs still needed to burn excess to ground

All the time missing the bigger picture:

A BJT CAN be put to below 0.2V if properly handled.

The lame MJE13007 i post the SOA of seems to be able to go up to 55V only?
;-)

Yet they seem to make it handle 150V on a power supply? No chance for a long time AFAIK

What I know now I would use a much expensive BJT and probably go without a heat sink?
All would look different now? The life long lasting appliances of the old days...

Newertheless, the PSUs die every now and then causing a lot of grief and income.

[hherby]

Leroy,
MJL device
JB

@JB,
Thanks for the explanation. The SOA of the MJL has "1 SEC" indicated next to the SOA curve. Does this mean we can run it at 1amp @140 DC for 1 second? Does this imply a pulse duration of 1 second on, 1 second off?

Referring to the SOA of the TIP-122 that Lamare posted, if we extend the 5 amp line over to the 100V level, does that mean we can run the TIP-122 at 5 amps at 100V with a pulse duration of 100 microseconds on and 100 microseconds off?

Or does this mean we can run the TIP-122 at 5 amps at 100V with a pulse duration of 100 microseconds on, 999900 microseconds off?

Many thanks,
Alex