Use for the Tesla Switch

[gmeat]

I've utilized a program to analyze this setup, and it seems to work pretty well.

The voltage generator going to the base of the first transistor is simulating the opto-isolator (program doesn't seem to have these).

If the emitter of this is hooked to the base of the transistor we are trying to control, we can adjust R8 to allow for different base currents into that transistor. The higher the base resistor, the lower the current into the base. So, if that is utilized on just the negative "short" side (actually both sides) of the original circuit, we should be able to limit the current through the transistor, because NPN transistors allow current based on the hFE from 25-100 or so. So the current through the transistor is base current * hFE. If this is true, then it shouldn't matter what is going through the other transistors, because there is a limit to the amount of total current flowing in the circuit. The other transistors should not be at a higher current the the lowest current allowed between either side of the circuit. At least that is my guess at the moment.

If R8 is 330 ohms as in the attached jpg, then the current flowing through transistor T1 should be about 322 mA if the hFE is 25. If hFE is 100, then the current through the transistor should be approximately 1.2A. This should probably be a variable resistor (pot) to tune to the application.

Of course, you must not allow more current through the opto than the opto is capable of handling, which in my case is 100ma.

I think that Jetijs opto (JB) circuit with this modification may work better, so I'll give it a shot and post my results as soon as I am able to implement this.

L

P.S. I'll be happy for anyone to correct me on the workings of a transistor or this particular theory.

Hi ldissing,



Electronics is certainly not my fortay but I came across this link that might possibly help you out?.Transistor Example


-Gary

[ldissing]

What did Peter say? It is easier to walk a dog on the moon....or something like that?

The resistor I mentioned in the last post did indeed control the current through the transistors, however, that does not necessarily mean that the transistors will not heat up...trying to control that current. I started with 470 ohm resistors, because that was what I had from the previous JetiJS setup, but not enough current was able to get through to have a big enough voltage on the cap to drive my motor to full speed.

I changed only the resistors at the negative side of the setup to 150 ohms, and it ran better. The lower batteries 2 and 4 seemed to be charging, but the motor was not running full speed, so who really cares. If I can't draw the load I need off the batteries, then what is the point, and the batteries were definitely big enough to handle the load.

So, then I just bypassed the other four 470 ohm resistors completely (leaving in two 150 ohm resistors on trannys going to the negative of each side) and it ran full speed. However, the transistors started to heat up. My batteries were losing voltage at this level.
'
Maybe another try with smaller resistors on the other 4 transistors....


Another failed attempt.....just walking my dog on the moon I guess, and it didn't go very well....that darn gravity bit me not the dog.

L

P.S. I modified the frequency too from 50us to seconds and it was a no go, but there are so many variables, not to mention capacitance in the wires, etc. I'll quit posting until I have something that works.

[ldissing]

Electronics is certainly not my fortay but I came across this link that might possibly help you out?.Transistor Example
-Gary

Said I would not post anymore, but I did want to thank Gary. Not for how a transistor works regarding turning on/off or even how to control the amount of current through the device because I think I understand that just fine, but it did make me think about power dissipation in the transistor and why it heats up.

If you don't want the transistor to heat up, then you'd better supply enough resistance before or after it to limit the current through the transistor at saturation. This, of course, limits the available voltage for the tesla switch and causes other heating losses.

Pretty sure that the right way for we amateurs is mechanical switching.

(more rambling)
Unless you have a multichannel scope it is almost impossible and even then it probably is. Unless JB wants to help those who are actually working on these devices then we might have some insights.
My guess is that he does not help because it is too difficult a problem to solve because everybody has a different setup and desire. Unless he came to your lab (house) and worked with you in person for 2 months or you are just a genius it will not work the way you think it should. He knows how (and more importantly WHY) it works and it will probably die with him until another Tesla, Brandt, or JB is born.

The concept seems so easy with solid state but I'm guessing even the transistors need to be matched perfectly. Are you going to buy 100 or 1000 transistors to find six matched ones? Since Peter doesn't know anybody except JB who had a working device and 100s or 1000s have probably tried this solid state version and not made it work the odds are stacked against us without input from JB.

No JB, no working device. And, I'm usually an optimist, but I've been working on a SS version for months and do not know if I'm any closer to it working than when I started. Am I even in the ball park?

I've seen some batteries charge and others discharge depending on the setup. Need something in between those versions.

L

P.S. Now I'm done.

[Matthew Jones]

No JB, no working device. And, I'm usually an optimist, but I've been working on a SS version for months and do not know if I'm any closer to it working than when I started. Am I even in the ball park?

Months??? And your already giving up? You get frustrated to easy.
Build a mechanical one first. I'm sure a solid state or a psuedo mechanical/solid state is the better way to go.
It will work out sooner or later.
LOL freakin pitty party LOL

Matt

[ldissing]

LOL freakin pitty party LOL
Matt

Tell me about it. LOL

You do realize that when I said. "I was done", I meant, I'm done posting....until I have something that works. I put forth enough useless theories of my own, a working device like yours is the only reason to post...or to ask questions.


L

[nilrehob]

Hi all

I started to look at the TS this weekend by manual-switching four equal capacitors. It seems like the system is loosing 30% each switch, or to put it in a brighter angle, it seems like the system is recycling 70% for each switch!

I have an infinite load (short circuit) to make each iteration go fast to minimize the leakage in the capacitors.

I compare the energy in the system in each iteration by dividing the sum of the squared voltages of each capacitor in the current iteration with the sum of the squared voltages of each capacitor in the previous iteration:

sum(V_curr^2)/sum(V_prev^2)

It seems like the efficiency of my capacitors is 70%.
I don't know (but would like to know) what the efficiency is for lead-acid batteries.

Would anyone like to comment on this?

I have just found a page about charge efficiency of capacitors but I haven't digested it yet.

[Matthew Jones]

@ldissing

I read back through a ways in this post and I couldn't find where you mentioned what kind of transistors you were using.

I went back through JB's IceHouse site for the Tesla switch. The diagram there shows that he used SG1544 ocs transistor (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...mi/SG1524.pdf). According to the data sheet can handle a fair amount of amperage. I would suspect that the transistor switches were comperable.
In the Kromrey Brant/ Tesla switch paper (you'll have to find it) he uses n3055h ( http://datasheet.digchip.com/309/309-01824-0-2N3055.pdf )
which can handle up to 15 amps on the collector.

With the mechanical I had a big issue with the diodes. I was only pulling 2 amp yet I was popping 3 amp diodes like no tommorrow.

I suspect maybe some choking in your circiut, of course I can't test. Also I have noticed that in alot of specs for transistors and relays on an inductive load like a transformer or a motor that the amperage rating is reduce upto 1/3 its specs (IE a 2amp load needs a 6 amp or better rating in the transistor or relay). Why I am not sure, ask an engineer, or maybe you already know. If so I would like to hear about its.

Back to the diode issue I had. When I switched to 35 amp diodes the charging started. Now the batterries still consume over a long period but initially you would see them come oout off a load state and go to a higher voltage than they started at. Aty some point they would start to drop off again.

Thats why I would suspect choking. That and your motor you said does not run at full speed.

Load componenets do act different. Like I said before, you cannot force energy through them. But if you have a motor say, that should pull 1 amp and it is not pulling that then you have a choke point somewhere in your circiut. And in actual fact you should pull more amperage through your motor than its rated for. somewhere in the ballpark of 50% - 80 percent more do to the reduction in back EMF(Explained in an earlier post).

I still think its going to be hard to make complete solid state circiut. My hope, if I head that direction later is to do one with a mecahnical switching to fire relays. And hopefully use it in a green home to power loads like the lights or motors. This would help the efficiency if used in a solar powered home. I also think it could be used with AC as well. AC caps in line and the correct oscilation would allow the AC current to go much further than DC.

What ever you do don't give up. You get no where that way.

@nilrehob

You would better off to use the capacitors right in front of the battery, or between the battery and the circiut. 4 caps in total. Follow me?
I'm not sure I how you are doing it now. But if you just use the caps inline to the load as diagramed by Patrick Kelly in the free energy guide you will have a greater loss. I'm not sure why. I know with just batterries I get about 80% recovery, on a one way setup. So it should be about that much when switching.

Lead acid battery efficiency is dependant on what kind of battery and what kind of component materials were used. They don't always just use lead in the battery. Some have different percentages of lead in the plates. Copper, ect...

You can test it though no matter what. My way is to watch what I get out of the charger and watch what sticks to the battery, over a given time period.
If the charger is just straight DC with no pulse its real easy. Put an ACCURATE amp meter inline and reduce your end result by 2% or so. 2% is what the amp meter might consume.

And thats the other thing high voltage low amperage pulses stick to a battery better than say straight mix of voltage and amperage. So under these conditions a battery may become more efficient.

Thats one reason to use a load instead of a straight short . It helps you calculate how much is traveling through the system.
You can then run the load right off the 4 batteries in parrallel and see the difference in how long and how hard they run. A good indication of how much more efficient the circiut is over conventional wiring. You can speculate the loss in the circiut after that.

I believe you will not find a conventional load that does not create loss. I think the whole design of electrical components anymore is based solely on the fact that they consume. Thats the engineering moto if you will. How can we consume this energy and make it work for us at low cost. Spread the consumption out through the circiut and send less to ground. OR somthing like that. Reguaging energy is not an option for them since its all a loss anyway.

Hope that helps. Sorry if I am rambling.
Matt

[ldissing]

@ldissing

I read back through a ways in this post and I couldn't find where you mentioned what kind of transistors you were using.

....

What ever you do don't give up. You get no where that way.

Matt

Oh, I'm not giving up, just going to quit theorizing and do lab work. Shut my mouth and experiment............

I'm using MJL21194s, as I already had several of them....six to be exact.

L

[nilrehob]

@Matthew

I'm just trying to break up the different components/parts/mechanics of the circuit, trying to understand each by itself better before I put them together.

@all

To me it seems like these are the main parts:
* Reuse of current.
* Sharp switching.
* Many switches per second.
* Inductive load to generate back EMF.
* Inductive load for resonance.

For the moment I'm testing the reuse of current by slow switching and using caps instead of batteries to get quicker results.
I'm switching about 3 times per second.

Since my last post I have used a resistor for load.
I charge all caps, discharge them in parallel using the resistor and measure the time it takes to get down to 1V.
Then I charge them again but discharge them using the TS setup instead until I get down to 1V over the load.

They both took 55s!

It took a while until I measured the volt over the caps in the TS when I had 1V over the load/resistor. It was 2.6V. I guess the diodes/rectifier is stealing some voltage.

Then I increased the resistor and measured the voltage after a fixed time instead.

With the caps in parallel I got 3.65V after 1min.
With the TS I got ~4.2V over the load and ~5V over the caps after 1min.

To be absolutely sure about the reusing of current I will do some more tests before I look into the next part of the circuit.

If anyone has suggestions on how to test the different parts, or if there are more/less parts to this circuit, please let me know.

[Matthew Jones]

* Inductive load to generate back EMF.

To the best I can tell you don't want this. If BEMF present in your motor (which it always is) you'll have a loss. I beleive it to be the biggest loss in my mechanical circiut.

I can't figure out how to link to one post in this thread but on page 3 I wrote down some theories I had on why this costs and what it is effecting in the circiut.

I built a small pulse motor that pulled the magnets (north to coil) in towards the coil then switched to north to push them away. Then it started all over.
On the scope I got no signs BEMF. My points (I used auto points and a cam) were not sparking and little to no heat.
I ran the circiut one way measure my run batts and measured my charge batts and gain 107% in my charge batteries.
The point is the BEMF that was generated flowed with the current I was putting in, instead of fighting it. Regular motor won't do this.

Cheers
Matt

[nilrehob]

@Matthew

OK, thanks Matthew, I've found the post.

BTW, You can use permalink in the upper right corner of each message to refer to a specific message, like this.

[nilrehob]

I have an infinite load (short circuit)

Hmmm, this doesn't seem right, does it?

[Tehnoman]

Yeah, it's kind of wierd.

But after all, it depends on how you define load. If by saying "load" you mean "resistance", then short circuit is zero load. If you define "load" as dissipated power, then short circuit means maximal possible power. Yet it happens inside the device, not outside and according to load - still seems to be zero load.

Something like that.

[nilrehob]

Yeah, it's kind of wierd.

Anyway, I'm unable to prove that reusing current is possible as stated in Patrick J. Kelly's "A Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices" ch. 5.
Has anyone succeeded in showing that it is possible with slow/manual switching?
If so, how?

[Matthew Jones]

I don't get much out of a system while switching banks until about 160hz.

Like I said before on a one way test I can get 107% on average more out than in.

I think you need get rid of the caps and try some batteries with some sort of load.

I have at time hooked caps .5 farad 500 stereo caps inline with the batteries. They hold current real well and for along time (Days). I can then unhook them from the battery and my mechanical will run about 3 minutes before a noticable loss in power. So that alone is enough to say I am recovering.

I have yet to try it with my latest motor, and my stuff is packed for now until next month, but I beleive if I start switching with that motor, I'll go alot further.
Caps probably need alot higher switching rate to maintian a charge or to invoke negative resistor effect on the capacitance plate. Unless your switching really fast (160hz - ???hz) you probably won't see anything but loss outa caps. But batteries.... well they are a different story.

I think probably Ideally you would not want the electron on the capacitance plate to not leave the cap at all, only jump one spot forward then back again. I don't know how fast that is though. I would guess you would develop alot of extra energy if you could make that happen. You might have a hydrolisis problem with a battery.

And yes reusing current is very possible. Grabing extra energy while doing it to recover your loss is also very possible. And I have proven it to myself.
You'll have to prove it to yourself. Slow switching is not the answer.

Cheers
Matt