Use for the Tesla Switch

[Inquorate]

Hi all,

Half page down, section "On Wimshurst machines and capacitors", there is an explanation of the "Dissectable Leyden Jar.":
ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS: Capacitor
Personally I have to read it again...

/Hob

This guy is right and wrong. Right; the dielectric does not always store charge. But, use the static charge to stress the dielectric while it cools from molten to solid, and it will set in stressed field.

So we would have a dielectric polarization of charge. Metal plates placed either side of the dielectric in this state, and they will 'charge' positive and negative, even though they are not part of a circuit, and electrons cannot flow.

To explain this, we need the massless aetheric stream flowing from positive to negative, IMHO.

[Inquorate]

Tubes of force

I would go with Eric Dollard on this one.

Eric Dollard and Tesla
JB

Faraday's lines of force could well be stress tubes in the aether. Like the banks of a river, directing the flow of aether.

Successive steep charge / discharge cycles of a capacitor, being the stressing and relaxation of the dielectric, could well propagate longitudinal waves in the aether that lack magnetic presence. If these intersect mass with free electrons, their potential would become raised or lowered.

Very interesting.

[Plazma]

How big a load coil?

Hi Bits,

Congrats on getting your digital TSw firing -

Welcome to coil-winder's paradise (lost). How big is the diameter of your coil? If it's something like 1 inch Diam then 150 turns at an average length per turn of pi inches gives about 471 inches in coil length or about 39 ft of wire. 18AWG copper has a resistance of say 0.021 Ohms/Meter or about 0.0064 ohms/ft so an 18AWG coil of 39ft should measure about 0.25 Ohms if my calcs and assumptions are correct. You state 1.3 ohms for your coil and that sounds high - however, connection/connector resistance can be a huge PITA especially dealing with the really small battery impedances (ca 23 milliohms or so per JB). If you don't solder any better than I do, then that could be a problem, too.

Sounds like to me that you are very, very close - happy hunting!

Cheers,

Plazma

Ok Team, more observations. I have now hooked my D-TS to the "Big Boy" batteries, 235 CCA tractor batteries. I am only testing in the "charge mode" if you will. Batts 2 an 4 steady at 12.22 and 12.50 respectfully. Batts 1 and 3 climbing (slowly) now at 12.3 and 12.4 respectfully. Q2 is pulsed at 300 milli seconds and is luke warm to the touch. Battery charge bulb is not illumenated. Load of of J5 load terminal is a 150 turn coil of 18 awg approx. with 1.3 ohms with welding rod core. I don't believe that I am getting the "Punch" out of the Tranny to get a good spike, usally like I see with the SG. When I increase the "on time" for the tranny, they heat up fast. The batt light pulses at that point.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Bit's

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hi Bits,

Congrats on getting your digital TSw firing -

Welcome to coil-winder's paradise (lost). How big is the diameter of your coil? If it's something like 1 inch Diam then 150 turns at an average length per turn of pi inches gives about 471 inches in coil length or about 39 ft of wire. 18AWG copper has a resistance of say 0.021 Ohms/Meter or about 0.0064 ohms/ft so an 18AWG coil of 39ft should measure about 0.25 Ohms if my calcs and assumptions are correct. You state 1.3 ohms for your coil and that sounds high - however, connection/connector resistance can be a huge PITA especially dealing with the really small battery impedances (ca 23 milliohms or so per JB). If you don't solder any better than I do, then that could be a problem, too.

Sounds like to me that you are very, very close - happy hunting!

Cheers,

Plazma

Thanks Plazma, I am re-checking the values and connections.

Bit's

[Murlin]

battery resistance

Way to go Bits

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Would not the resistance be relative to the applied load?

It is my understanding that one must balance the resistance of all your wires and connections to equal the same resistance that is in your batteries.

Thanks,

Murlin

[gandyman]

Hello team,
short intro aboud my person....
I am 53 years old and from the Netherlands <and> write bad Englisch so probally you need to read slow my post..

I follow all this and John Bedini and others real close and have so my ideas with are to complicated to write down here.
Made a new design (scheme) on paper and will soon test this wen I have the parts to assemble it.

anyway to answer your question Murlin ?

26 years ago I made a device for this becouse you can see on the resistance from a car battery if it will work normally or if the car dont want to start after a cold night.
So you need to buy a new battery...

A new 12v lead acid battery has a internal resistance from 8 ohm.
From 22 ohm to 52 ohm it will be a bad battery.
And from 52 ohm and higher it is no more usabell in a car.

This all wen it is in use and under load the normal way.
I dont know how this battery wil work wen it is loaded the Bedini way

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Murlin

[Plazma]

A Small Needle in a BIG Haystack . . .

Hi Murlin,

Sounds like you have puzzled on the same enigma (riding on
the horns of a paradox) as I have . . . I get screwy, non-
repetetive results when I'm brave enough to try with a
conventional digital meter. Here's my thoughts (so far) on the
problem:

It's like sifting fly crap out of pepper - the number in question
is soooo small it probably takes a special bridge-type device to
measure and one has to buck out or null out the battery's
voltage so no current flows to otherwise cause self-heating in
your bridge elements. Kind of like the problem in very accurately
measuring Temperature using a Platinum Resistance Bulb that
has 3 or 4 leads and is specifically designed for a bridge type
measurement - it's designed to help you null out and/or
compensate for possible self-heating effects from the excitation
source - and, such a bulb is typically 100 ohms at 0 deg C.

Adding insult to injury, the cost of NTS-certified resistor
shunts that get down into the range of battery internal
resistances is fierce.

Now, some clever, enterprising magician much faster of thought
and foot than I might have a neat answer to this, and more
power to him/her -

I'm still searching and cogitating . . .

Best to You,

Plazma

Way to go Bits

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Would not the resistance be relative to the applied load?

It is my understanding that one must balance the resistance of all your wires and connections to equal the same resistance that is in your batteries.

Thanks,

Murlin

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B

[Plazma]

More on Internal Resistance of a Battery . . .

Murlin, et al -

It might be possible to get an approximation of internal
resistance as follows:

1: Using a DVM, get open circuit resting voltage, V0

2: Load the battery terminals with a precision resistor Rl of
enough ohms to limit current and quickly measure load voltage Vl

3: Calculate an approximate internal resistance using this
equation:

Ri = Rl * ((Vo/Vl) - 1)

It might be better to use a meaningful few Rl's of different
values and a spread sheet - not sure - the rub is the heating
of the Rl can cause errors bigger than the Ri one is trying to
measure so I'm not guaranteeing real accurate results with
this method - but, it might get one in the ball park with a
fair amount of fiddling . . .

Best,

Plazma

[redcar1957]

Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B

John B, I hope you and Rick and your families have a safe and happy holidays!!!!
I like what you said keep it simple to start!!!!
Best to ya'll
Kevin

[John_Bedini]

Tesla Switch

Plazma,
I can give you The impedance's of the batteries as we have a machine that measures that. This also depends on the state of charge. most of the batteries measure .0023 Ohms.
You can only have 1/2 volt before the battery is dead on a start battery. On a deep cycle you can have 1.73 volts until discharged if you want to push it. To do this you must know the state of charge, or the capacity of the battery. The battery may have much more leakage then you think this will also effect your measurement. Just trying to help.
John B

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

More D-TS Test Results

Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B

Here is some more test results. Take a look!

YouTube - TS Test 4.MPG

John, Peter, and all the brilliant folks on this forum, Happy holidays to you and yours.

Bit's

[Plazma]

Off by 10x

Hi John,

Thanks for the speedy, informative reply. So, I've been talking about 23 milliohms (.023 ohms) and the real number is 0.0023 Ohms? - so, what's a factor of 10x between friends -

I figured you'd have a tester and I am paying attention to the charge state of the batteries I have. Toys in my shop include a West Mountain CBA II for running discharge tests and a BK Precision 600 charge tester. I keep my batteries when not in use off of the concrete shop floor on a thick insulator as I've heard that concrete floors, over time, can kill batteries as the case leakage can be real and quite parasitic not to mention air losses. My best lie detector is an Agilent 5-1/2 digit multimeter (+ scopes and other stuff). I'm still a beginner learning as much as I can.

The batteries I have are 8 new, 18 AHr 12Volt PowerSonics (sealed). Right at the moment I am anxiously waiting for new diodes so I can finish my 2cd build of the switch - can't wait.

Thanks for the suggestions and your generosity - words can't cover it - and all the best for a very Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Cheers,

Plazma

Plazma,
I can give you The impedance's of the batteries as we have a machine that measures that. This also depends on the state of charge. most of the batteries measure .0023 Ohms.
You can only have 1/2 volt before the battery is dead on a start battery. On a deep cycle you can have 1.73 volts until discharged if you want to push it. To do this you must know the state of charge, or the capacity of the battery. The battery may have much more leakage then you think this will also effect your measurement. Just trying to help.
John B

[ldissing]

Inductors and TS

Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B

@JB,

You said, "I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it." You have first hand experience that people see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. What was shown or said is not what they see or hear, so it is all personal interpretation. This is true for me, you, and everybody, so I am not dissing any one.

I believe that every one could be missing something, like how power can be taken from the TS. You posed that question some time ago and everyone is trying to figure out how to take the power out of the system. So, people are using inductors and other things, which was what you were using in the scalar charger, not the TS. You were using light bulbs for the TS, I think, not inductors. BUT, you were NOT trying to take power from the TS, I think?

I believe the correct answer is, "Just use the batteries directly", you don't need the TS for power, but the TS can be used to "charge" the batteries, so you would then have a continuous supply of power, using one and charging 4. Take one out, replace the drained one, and continue on. But that was just my interpretation, use the TS as a charger, using potential only to charge the batteries in the TS. My other thought was that at 50% duty cycle, you could use the TS as a power source and it would run longer than 4 batteries alone, I still believe this to be the case, but I am not testing at the moment...can't, but I will be soon, I hope.

So, you indicated three uses for the TS. I see it as: 1. Battery charging, 2. taking power at 50% duty cycle prolonging the usage of the 4 batteries, and 3. unsure. Still up for grabs on the third use.

Can't wait to be home. My TS setup awaits my return.

Have a merry Christmas and happy New Year, JB...and all !!!

Leroy

[Inquorate]

Inductors

If you put an inductor in a ts, and do not disconnect the inductor from the series side while the parallel side is still connected, and have a recovery diode, the voltage spike will take from the series side.

I'm still nutting out the details but agree with john bedini, the TS in basic form should not have inductors.