Use for the Tesla Switch

[Tecstatic]

Hi Eric..

OK Here Is my Take in this...

What you describe above does cover Bedinis charging stuff, but my take on this Switching circuit is WAY different, some of the same basic forces are at work here but in a different way, Kind of like with an IC engine Both the Diesel and the Gas engine work of the same type of energy (Heat transfer) they operate quite a bit different.

My theory on this (will need to get uP control to test and confirm)

The batteries are neither charged nor discharged..
when in proper tune it should do the following..
(I will treat this with all batteries described as 1 as the way the switching does this is not relevant for the theory explanation)

When a load is placed across the terminals of the battery Electron Flow does work as it travels from one post to the other, While the electrons are flowing outside the battery there is Ions flowing inside the battery, for ease of understanding the principal , we will say it is traveling from one plate to the other.
From what I have gathered from other peoples research (need to do the tests myself for proof) is that the electron flow is faster than the Ion flow.
So now the trick is ...
as soon as the electrons reach the opposite terminal the flow is stopped, now the ions in the battery start slowing down and have not yet "Reached the other plate" so to speak and now we reverse the potential and start the electron flow again, now the Ions are traveling back the other way but again we stop the flow as soon as the electrons make it to the other side and the Ions don't make it to the plate again, now reverse and repeat,etc.

Is what we should end up with is an Ionic electron Pump

Hopefully this makes enough sense to follow.

So as to prior ?'s to tuning etc, you can see now where the Load must control how hard the electrons flow in relation to what the batteries can handle and the switching controls how long the electron flow lasts and the Dead time for the Ions to slow down before reversing. If any of this is off then there will be Electron bunching, Ion collisions etc that will cause heat and drain the batteries, or overcharge and blow up the batteries.

when it works right there is energy drawn into the system as the fets will get cold and can frost up

Later
Dave

Hi Dave

Thank you for this explanation, it makes sense to me.

The circuit I have attached in a post above should be able to operate the way you describe, it is just a matter of the timing.

The length of the wire in the inductor related to the inductance is then very important.

If we eg. have 30m of wire, then we have approx. 100ns before the electrons arrive to the other side.

So the time constant of the current rise is related on both the voltage and the inductance. The shorter the time constant the higher the current.

It can then be beneficial to have a "decelerating" period for the ions, as I assume this will allow for more current draw.

If this is correct, then we get hard work to tune correctly.

1. The inductance and wire length must be calculated for a given set of batteries.
2. The on-time must be set according to the wire length and the speed factor of the coil.
3. The off-time must be set to have optimal ion "bouncing" between the plates
4. The frequency we get from the timing must preferably hit the resonance frequency of the inductor.
5. As the tuning is load dependent, we have to do tuning for a range of loads.
6. The tuning can maybe be compensated for load changes by measuring the current and using an algorithm in the uController.

We can probably gain from a small capacitor parallel to the coil for tuning the resonant frequency. All coils in the real world are an LC circuit. Using the capacitor makes it more easy to tune in (more easy than rewinding the coil).

The Atmel XMEGA uController has 128MHz clock frequency for the PWM timers.

If we again have the 30m wire in the coil, a cycle could maybe be
100ns current one way
200ns ion deceleration
100ns current other way
200ns ion deceleration

Giving 600ns cycle time or 1.67 MHz.

With the uController in question, the frequency is then adjustable with discrete steps of 1.3%. This indicates we can not use shorter than 30m wire as the uController tuning will be too coarse.

7. The last thing in the tuning is to have searched for the natures beneficial frequencies, so the frequency of the Tesla switch tunes in to one or more of them. This last understanding I owe to DrStiffer, from his very educational thread.

Tesla used 170kHz
NormWootan 174.9kHz
Steven Mark 245kHZ
Stiffler 10.3-10.6Mhz, 12, 13.6 and 14MHz (and more he investigates)

IMHO the forum members should pay attention to the frequencies and report new frequencies which yield energy.

Does this make sense to you ?

Eric

[nvisser]

DD
Thank you for the insite into your circuit. I am still trying to work out your pulsing supply to see the timing you used. Got al the pdf`s on the decade counters to try to work it out.
It certainly looks like a extraordanary circuit.
This is the first time I heard of a electronic circuit running cold (freezing!)
I think that we all should try and replicate this circuit as you said that you would not issue a circuit without testing it. As not all of us are electronic boffins it would be nice if you can explain a little bit on the pulser circuit.
I see that you show a transformer or a full bridge as a load.(without the caps before the bridge as in JB circuits) Please explain the ways you used it

[eternalightwithin]

When I got the Fets to frost up I had a combination of Resistive (lights) and inductive (Fan Motor) with no caps on the output (from batteries to FWBR )

This circuit will handle a few hundred amps depending on the Fet's/Igbt's used and the batteries to match. So their is no Magic Freq. that makes it work. It all depends on the set up and actual running conditions.

Dave

Holy .... Err Can we say "****" here?

Edit: Guess not

[Matthew Jones]

7. The last thing in the tuning is to have searched for the natures beneficial frequencies, so the frequency of the Tesla switch tunes in to one or more of them. This last understanding I owe to DrStiffer, from his very educational thread.

Tesla used 170kHz
NormWootan 174.9kHz
Steven Mark 245kHZ
Stiffler 10.3-10.6Mhz, 12, 13.6 and 14MHz (and more he investigates)

I think I would start out bit slower first. Or better yet test your battery for it BEST CHARGING frequency, each battery is different find a good average. That will be your sweet spot.

I have noticed, after building 12 working models, you want the smoothest current coming from the load, or what ever your using to transfer energy. Inductive spikes can play hell.

If it don't burn up it must be working, and thats all I am going to say on that.

[Tecstatic]

@DoubleD

Thank you so much for your explanations, I think I got some understanding on how to get it working.

I still think you misunderstood my separate SMPS for the driver circuits. It has a separate "ground" for each MOSFET, everything floats relative to each other, and the only restrictions on the movement is that imposed of the Tesla switch circuit, the gate voltages are completely independent of the other MOSFETS on or off, and there is no common ground for drivers and MOSFETs.

@Mathew

Thanks goes to you also. I have noted your point about the optimal charging frequency.

There is nothing more respectable in this game than a working circuit. I value much the sharing from all of you

The reason I have mentioned the frequency list is because this is something to look into.
The list is short so far, but I guess also more low frequencies exist we have to find and register.

And we don't need to operate at the base frequency, harmonics are also useful, so we can use a lower frequency.

But this is future experiments, as you say Mathew, if it doesn't burn, it must work. If I succeed, I will of cause share my circuit.

Eric

[DoubleD]

Well put Matthew..
I agree the battery's natural Freq. is the one to work from. and all are different so there will need to be an average, maybe after they are run for a while they will all adapt to the same freq. ??

And you have it with the Load too The smoother you can keep it the more control you have over the batteries Pumping action.

I feel the load should be used as a buffer for the Electron Flow.
I think the freq should be focused on the batteries natural freq.
the Pulse width on time would depend on the LOAD the heavier the load the shorter the On time. and the Dead time, off time between pulses is a buffer between the two.

when using an Inductive load then use the caps to LC tank it so its oscillation flow with the Tswitch's freq. so it is non reflective, Getting in to combining with other tech here but if the Load was a transformer in the proper circuit it should be able to be tuned into this so that the LC of the primary keeps the load powered and the TS coupling keeps the LC going like pushing a swing. But this is another topic that we can deal with when we get to that point with it.



Dave

[DoubleD]

I am still trying to work out your pulsing supply to see the timing you used. Got al the pdf`s on the decade counters to try to work it out.

OK this is actually a lot simpler than it looks , the datasheets Might make it a little confusing cause the chips aren't used in the "normal" fashion

First off the 34151 is an Inverting Dual Driver chip it is fairly fast and accurate so it is used to create the base freq.

The pulse signal from this is sent to the decade counter and each time it triggers it advances one count.

Now the diodes are arranged so that there is 2 pulses that go no where (Dead Time)then for the next 3 counts the diodes tie to one output this is to one of the SERIES fets in the switch, now during the 2nd and 3rd count of the 3 there are other diodes also on the pins these tie together for the Parallel fets on the other half of the switch. then there is 2 more Dead counts and the same sequence for the other side of the switch then the counter resets and it repeats in a constant loop to provide a very acurate trigger circuit.

So the series fet is ON for 1 count then the Parallel fets turn on and they are all 3 on for 2 more counts. then EVERYTHING OFF for 2 counts, then Switch to the other side of the circuit and repeat.

The only problem with this is you only have frequency control without re- arranging all the diodes. I actually have jumpers on my board to do this and this is the arrangement that I found works the best for now.

[DoubleD]

[QUOTE=Tecstatic;65906]@DoubleD

Thank you so much for your explanations, I think I got some understanding on how to get it working.

I still think you misunderstood my separate SMPS for the driver circuits. It has a separate "ground" for each MOSFET, everything floats relative to each other, and the only restrictions on the movement is that imposed of the Tesla switch circuit, the gate voltages are completely independent of the other MOSFETS on or off, and there is no common ground for drivers and MOSFETs.

Eric/QUOTE]


Great hope you can get it working.

NO, I don't get what you have going with the SMPS for the driver circuit, but by all means give it a shot if you think you have it.

The circuit I have posted does not need any outside power source either, it pulls a floating 12v supply for the timer circuit and drivers directly from the batteries being switched.

You might be able to adapt it to power your SMPS circuit.

Dave

[nvisser]

Thank you for sharing DD
I think I will stop all current zpe projects and start to lay out some pc boards for your circuits!
Can you please explain the function of the fet and 13v zener on your switch board supply

[Inquorate]

Ions slower than electrons

I won't lie, the construction of a tesla switch circuit is quite beyond my capabilities just now.

BUT

I've been reading up on ions v electrons flow for making electrets, and then read this page and the fabulous contributions of users regarding understanding how the tesla switch works.

And there's a parallel between electrets and the tesla switch, in that they use the ions to tap into 'excess' energy.

anyway, that's just my two cents worth.

Love and light

[DoubleD]

Thank you for sharing DD
I think I will stop all current zpe projects and start to lay out some pc boards for your circuits!
Can you please explain the function of the fet and 13v zener on your switch board supply

This is a simple Voltage regulator that will let you run some amps through it , limited only by the Fets rating, and it doesn't waste a lot of power dumping the excess to heat, like normal voltage regulators do.
And this way your On /Off switch doesn't carry the load of the circuit either.

I should still have the PCB files for this too , I had a Bot go through my Comp. a while back and I lost around 25,000+ files, the Lay out for the switch is kinda tricky so there is not a bunch of jumpers but I have the SCH laid out real similar to Board layout. I will see if I can find the PCB files for you though.

Dave

[nvisser]

Pcb layout will be nice!!
I see the fod3120 needs 15- 30v supply
Can we use a fod3180 in its place. It uses 10-20v supply and is readily available here ?

[DoubleD]

Found some of the files
now lets see if I can figure out how to add pics ....

Here is a couple of ver4 running , the top board is the PWM the bottom is the TS circuit. This is one that had individual opto's ,drivers, etc.

[DoubleD]

Ok I found all the PCB files but due to this part of the Forum owners BS rules I will not be posting them.

By uploading, posting or otherwise transmitting through or to our website any content, you grant to us, our successors and assigns, a non-exclusive, world-wide, royalty free, perpetual, non-revocable license to use or distribute such content in any manner otherwise than as stated in our Privacy Policy.

If you would like them let me know and I will send them to you


Later
Dave

[eternalightwithin]

I would like the schematics please

Sincerely,

David

Ok I found all the PCB files but due to this part of the Forum owners BS rules I will not be posting them.

By uploading, posting or otherwise transmitting through or to our website any content, you grant to us, our successors and assigns, a non-exclusive, world-wide, royalty free, perpetual, non-revocable license to use or distribute such content in any manner otherwise than as stated in our Privacy Policy.

If you would like them let me know and I will send them to you


Later
Dave