Use for the Tesla Switch

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

It Works!!!!! The D-TS that is.

Ok Team, I just charged 4 battery's and applied a load after I suspended the charging effort. I agree with all, the TS cannot charge and drive a load at the same time, but this was not the challenge. The next D-TS hurdle will be to apply a load and relax the charging effort while the load is applied. As a side note (and I have seen this before when I charge my wind gen batts) when measuring a battery under a charge, you may see some weird readings like 2.43 volts on a fully charged battery. This is exciting!!!


Bit's

[Matthew Jones]

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does.

Mr John..and Team

So are we still thinking along the lines of the 4 battery switch as being able to self charge batteries while maintaining a load? Or is is just a way of extending the batteries charge? Which I know first hand it will do.

I now believe SCR can maintain a load while charging the battery. I have had one success while paying for switching. I am looking for a lighter weight way of switching though.

Anyway Just curious

Cheers
Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Mr John..and Team

So are we still thinking along the lines of the 4 battery switch as being able to self charge batteries while maintaining a load? Or is is just a way of extending the batteries charge? Which I know first hand it will do.

I now believe SCR can maintain a load while charging the battery. I have had one success while paying for switching. I am looking for a lighter weight way of switching though.

Anyway Just curious

Cheers
Matt

@Matt, this would be the great device. I agree with you in using the SCR and am building the SCR D-TS. I am very interested in your findings.

Thanks.

Bit's

[John_K]

3PDT Relay Tesla Switch

Hey John K,

Glad you are up and running with the relays. What if the spikes from the coil were actually sent to the positives of the batteries via a diode? One on each side, going to the opposite sides positive?

On another note. Since I can only think about things...

I do not remember JB talking about using coils so much in regards to the TS. I know he did with the scalar charger, though and he had a bulb across the coil (maybe just to see what was going on).

1. If the coil is being switched 50/50, then the coil has current going through it in both directions and no dead time. Maybe a 9V bulb across that coil would be a good idea, so that you have some potential left, i.e. the 9V bulb is not too bright? Or, you could say that some potential can get through, because the bulb will have a drop of 9V only?

With the relays, you do not have any diodes, so you have the full potential available, which would be approximately 3-4.5 volts depending on battery voltages.

2. While a coil will produce spikes, it will also take up all the potential available, but and it will produce spikes and also produce an increase of voltage (what a normal coil does) when the one side is shut off. Maybe a delay is needed too in the relay version, so that this increase in voltage creates the potential to charge the battery in the off time. Good application for a duty cycle controlled 3524 instead of the 555.

Just thinking,

Lero

P.S. Flash bright, or flash dim? Still bright?

Hey Lero,

I am soooo glad JB just told us that the TS has no inductors. Why? Because on my 3PDT relay TS I popped two 555's even though the oscillator section is electrically isolated from the 4 batteries and the load.

With the 7Ah batteries I used one of the 555s just popped out of nowhere after around 2 hours, but when I swapped out the 7Ah "crash test dummies" for 130Ah deep cycles I popped another 555 as soon as I switched the load in.

In answer to your question - the neon did not flash as bright with the 7Ah batteries as the 130Ah batteries did.

So, I'm back to resistive loads and trying a few different ones.

Will let y'all know how it goes. Happy Holidays to all. As they say in AU, "If you drink and drive, you're a bloody idiot!"

John K.

[Matthew Jones]

Well I used the relays that I have in latest 4 battery switch, instead of MJL transistors. I used the Stamp board for timing. I powered the stamp off of a direct load from the battery. Although its suppose to take 9volt batts it works on 12v, seems to be OK.
The battery was a walmart lawn garden. The caps are 10000uf at 100v BIG...
I lit 2 2.3 volt bulbs in series. 1 bulb will burn out if thats all I run.

I ran it 4 times under different timings. The Third time I ran it 4 hours. I gained .07 volts on the battery at standing.
The 4th time I ran it under the same settings I gained .2 volt in 24 hours.

I fired the energy out of the battery for 50ms, switched and fire it back 25ms.

The load was present both directions.

I am trying to find a away to accumulate enough power to run the stamp chip on the switching side. It takes more voltage to run the stamp chip than is provided in the current setup I have. Thats do to the lack of a ground. And it may not run at all without the ground present. We'll see.
But I am thinking about trying to pull the load of the switch from second set of caps and switch's. Maybe smaller and more of them. But tests aren't looking good.

We'll see.
I am still curious about the 4 battery ability to self charge?
Matt

[John_K]

We'll see.
I am still curious about the 4 battery ability to self charge?
Matt

Hey Matt,

Me too. Right now I'd just be interested in getting the 4 batteries to self-charge without taking any power out of the system. I'd love to be able to replicate Bedini/Mueller's test results.
I'm more than happy to have one set of 4 charging up while I take the power out of another set of 4.

John K.

[Murlin]

anyway to answer your question Murlin ?


A new 12v lead acid battery has a internal resistance from 8 ohm.
From 22 ohm to 52 ohm it will be a bad battery.
And from 52 ohm and higher it is no more usabell in a car.

This all wen it is in use and under load the normal way.
:

Thank you very much

regards,

Murlin

[ldissing]

Mr John..and Team

So are we still thinking along the lines of the 4 battery switch as being able to self charge batteries while maintaining a load? Or is is just a way of extending the batteries charge? Which I know first hand it will do.

I now believe SCR can maintain a load while charging the battery. I have had one success while paying for switching. I am looking for a lighter weight way of switching though.

Anyway Just curious

Cheers
Matt

Matt,

The "load" and recharge at the same time? This is only possible if the "potential" is available above the parallel batteries, i.e. 2V above the batteries or 14.X V depending on the batteries voltages.

I know your thoughts about this system, but JB was (looking at the proto board) just using a tiny tiny current, I believe the bulb was a 20ma bulb. Maintaining a load, what does that mean? It would mean something different to different people, so JB is the one with the experience to say when trying to charge the batteries.

We are all running different systems, relays, transistors, SCRs, etc., so this is based on a transistor system. My thought, is that the 2 parallel batteries are kind of floating around between the two series batteries. There is no "direct" connection, so a load initially has 0 volts across it, then when current begins to flow (whether big or small) the voltage increases. The potential across that load can NOT be bigger than about 4 volts and still have potential "left" to charge the parallel side. I.E. 12V + load voltage + 2V <= 18V, assuming 12.0V for the batteries. So, the load voltage must be less than or equal to 4 volts. A bulb fits the bill nicely if it is a small voltage bulb (or a high intensity led at 3.2 to 3.8V, plenty left to charge). Now for you relay guys, then you have MORE potential to play with.

I do not believe that it will matter what the load is, as long as that potential is left to allow the parallel side to charge. A coil would not be the BEST load, as it would use ALL the available potential, but also would produce spikes. You could probably suck a lot of "current" out of the battery as long as that potential was left to charge the parallel side. SO, perhaps the load could suck a lot of current, but it can not use more than 4 volts in the transistor version. In the relay version, it is probably around 10 V. So, you can't run a 12V motor and have the battery gain charge...according to the formula. Perhaps I am incorrect once again, but this is just my interpretation of what JB has said and in what I've seen on my TS. Of course, what I've seen doesn't mean jack!

By the way, I could only get it to run the oscillator off a cap when the frequency was high. At lower frequencies, as JB has indicated for charging, the oscillator uses too much juice. As the frequency is increased, I see the potential across the capacitor increasing up to and above the battery voltages. But, this is not what we are trying to do. I think the initial objective is to see if the batteries will charge with a small load, i.e. with no external input to the system and at low frequency. KIS....stupid....kind of describes me and my ramblings!

Leroy

P.S. I do not think JB was using the "Brandt" version, just the loads as indicated in his post...i.e. two loads, one on each side. JB can say positively one what or the other

[Murlin]

Sounds like you have puzzled on the same enigma (riding on
the horns of a paradox) as I have

Yes I don't know how one would go about balance a circuit that is constantly changing. Therefore it is logical to assume that the
TS must be designed for a specific task.

3: Calculate an approximate internal resistance using this
equation: Ri = Rl * ((Vo/Vl) - 1)

Yes this sounds similar to the load test I was reading about the other day.

Thanks guys,

Murlin

[Matthew Jones]

Hey Matt,

Me too. Right now I'd just be interested in getting the 4 batteries to self-charge without taking any power out of the system. I'd love to be able to replicate Bedini/Mueller's test results.
I'm more than happy to have one set of 4 charging up while I take the power out of another set of 4.

John K.

I have always counted on supplementing the system while its running. I use the 350 watt 24 volt motor as bench mark. Under my first systems it would consume about 32 watts an hour. My later systems that ran faster it would consume about 12 watts an hour. Those aren't hard numbers just based on loose tests. But I am sure they are close.
You can add energy to the system by hooking in to the hot side with 2 diodes pointed out in a "Y" config. The lowest potential will get charged.
You hook the ground side to the negative terminal of the Bridge or in the case of AC you put it in a "Y" config with the diodes backwards.

But anyway If a 350 watt motor only consumes 12 watts well a small solar panel or generator should sustain that.

Thats the direction I have always expected to go, since I have not seen charging over prolonged periods. I do have a variant on my simple motor to that runs on it. It generates extra voltage in the system, and sustains the runs longer than I ever have but its still not enough yet..

But now the SCR comes along and works, I'm puzzled.

2 years ago all I had was a schematic and some stories. So everything that I theorized based on that experience, just changed.

Just some thoughts
Matt

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,
I think the initial objective is to see if the batteries will charge with a small load, i.e. with no external input to the system and at low frequency.

Ya I understand that and everything else you pointed out, but that does not do the job.
Even in cases where I have seen the battery rise over standing voltage, at least from the view of the meter, the system will still loose energy over a long period of time. The 4 batt system that is.

And I have tested enough of them to know that most loads don't knock down the voltage that much. Like I told ya knocking down the voltage to a more reasonable level is key to keeping in the battery. Also the avoidance of counter charges helps. They create a FLOW OF CURRENT right inside the load.

One thing that I have wanted to do for some time that may now be possible since I discovered the digital is to format new batteries (Just made not charged) with s switch and a logarithmic type cycle on them to grow them from scratch under the stress of a TS. But thats a little ways away for me with all the work from my house and all.

Still wondering?

Matt

[Inquorate]

Ok Team, I just charged 4 battery's and applied a load after I suspended the charging effort. I agree with all, the TS cannot charge and drive a load at the same time, but this was not the challenge. The next D-TS hurdle will be to apply a load and relax the charging effort while the load is applied. As a side note (and I have seen this before when I charge my wind gen batts) when measuring a battery under a charge, you may see some weird readings like 2.43 volts on a fully charged battery. This is exciting!!!


Bit's

Very cool can we start a new thread for ts or scalar charger reps that have worked, and include schematics, parts list etc??

I think there's been 3 reported so far.

[dambit]

Very cool can we start a new thread for ts or scalar charger reps that have worked, and include schematics, parts list etc??

I think there's been 3 reported so far.

I second that

Quite confusing with all the different versions being discussed. Also a build guide might be useful for reproductions.

Cheers & a merry Xmas to all,

Steve

[Murlin]

.

But anyway If a 350 watt motor only consumes 12 watts well a small solar panel or generator should sustain that.

And when the sun isn't shining, a small axial flux to take up the slack..





Murlin

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Very cool can we start a new thread for ts or scalar charger reps that have worked, and include schematics, parts list etc??

I think there's been 3 reported so far.

I have started a new thread
How to Build the "Digital Tesla Switch".

Thanks

Bit's