Use for the Tesla Switch

[StevanC]

A chart of impedance (PDF and xls included)

Murlin, et al -

It might be possible to get an approximation of internal
resistance as follows:

1: Using a DVM, get open circuit resting voltage, V0

2: Load the battery terminals with a precision resistor Rl of
enough ohms to limit current and quickly measure load voltage Vl

3: Calculate an approximate internal resistance using this
equation:

Ri = Rl * ((Vo/Vl) - 1)

It might be better to use a meaningful few Rl's of different
values and a spread sheet - not sure - the rub is the heating
of the Rl can cause errors bigger than the Ri one is trying to
measure so I'm not guaranteeing real accurate results with
this method - but, it might get one in the ball park with a
fair amount of fiddling . . .

Best,

Plazma

Plazma,
I was free to play with Your math and combined a couple of values:

My resistor seems ot be 125 mili Ohm (a 100A rated battery tester?)
I uploaded a PDF
Are the values correct?

[Plazma]

Not sure about Vl

Hi StevenC,

I looked at the spread sheet but I'm not sure if I clearly
understand your setup but here's a guess:

1) You used the resistor in an Amp tester for the load
and its value is 125 milliohms . . .

2) You took successive readings under load and applied
the formula in question to back calculate Rinternal . . .

If so, I see some possible problems:

1) Very rapid discharge of the battery maybe in excess of C20 -
I hope you didn't damage the battery at the listed high amp
discharge rates;

2) Probable significant I*I*Rl heating of the load resistor
causing variable and difficult to interpret results;

After reflecting on JB's subsequent post after I posted
the formula, it becomes even clearer as to why JB has
a special tester to measure internal battery resistance -
Some of JB's points were:

1) The tester must take into account (or negate) parasitic
leakages that can affect the results;

2) Testing must be controlled so as not to overstress
and damage one's batteries - very difficult to do by
hand without a test rig of sorts;

If I'm wrong in my interpretation then please clarify
and I'll try to do better. Thanks for your patience and
your effort.

Best,

Plazma

[StevanC]

Hi StevenC,

I looked at the spread sheet but I'm not sure if I clearly
understand your setup but here's a guess:

1) You used the resistor in an Amp tester for the load
and its value is 125 milliohms . . .

2) You took successive readings under load and applied
the formula in question to back calculate Rinternal . . .

If so, I see some possible problems:

1) Very rapid discharge of the battery maybe in excess of C20 -
I hope you didn't damage the battery at the listed high amp
discharge rates;

2) Probable significant I*I*Rl heating of the load resistor
causing variable and difficult to interpret results;

After reflecting on JB's subsequent post after I posted
the formula, it becomes even clearer as to why JB has
a special tester to measure internal battery resistance -
Some of JB's points were:

1) The tester must take into account (or negate) parasitic
leakages that can affect the results;

2) Testing must be controlled so as not to overstress
and damage one's batteries - very difficult to do by
hand without a test rig of sorts;

If I'm wrong in my interpretation then please clarify
and I'll try to do better. Thanks for your patience and
your effort.

Best,

Plazma

Plasma,
thanks for the swift reply

I just wanted a table one has to printout and hang on the wall:

1. One reads out the voltage with a convenient load (as You wrote - the 125 mOhm tester).
2. lookup the voltage on the table (blue bars)

3. approximate the internal resistance on the other side ("its between 4 and 5 mOhm")

simple.

Disappointed?

Stevan C.

[Plazma]

Disappointed? - yes and no

Disappointed?

In your slick presentation (now that I GOT IT) - heck no . . .

In my retarded state of NOT GETTING IT? - one guess

Best,

Plazma

Plasma,
thanks for the swift reply

I just wanted a table one has to printout and hang on the wall:

1. One reads out the voltage with a convenient load (as You wrote - the 125 mOhm tester).
2. lookup the voltage on the table (blue bars)

3. approximate the internal resistance on the other side ("its between 4 and 5 mOhm")

simple.

Disappointed?

Stevan C.

[hherby]

Preliminary scalar charger observations

I got my circuit finished today and started testing
Specs:
2.6 ah valve regulated 12v lead acid battery
load is #47 bulb
2 x 10000uf caps
3 x MJL21194 transistors driven by H11D1 optos with 1n4001 and 1uf cap in parallel driven by SG3524 circuit

Battery start resting voltage 12.18v
Running about 8hz with less than 50% duty cycle
(have not hooked up scope to it yet to get exact measurements)
Noticed bulb pulses brighter on parallel charging part of cycle.
Bulb is dimly lit.
Battery bouncing between 12.09 and 12.10V for the last hour.
Will let it run and see what happens.

Alex

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I got my circuit finished today and started testing
Specs:
2.6 ah valve regulated 12v lead acid battery
load is #47 bulb
2 x 10000uf caps
3 x MJL21194 transistors driven by H11D1 optos with 1n4001 and 1uf cap in parallel driven by SG3524 circuit

Battery start resting voltage 12.18v
Running about 8hz with less than 50% duty cycle
(have not hooked up scope to it yet to get exact measurements)
Noticed bulb pulses brighter on parallel charging part of cycle.
Bulb is dimly lit.
Battery bouncing between 12.09 and 12.10V for the last hour.
Will let it run and see what happens.

Alex

Real nice to see that you working Alex.

Bit's

[nvisser]

I got my circuit finished today and started testing
Specs:
2.6 ah valve regulated 12v lead acid battery
load is #47 bulb
2 x 10000uf caps
3 x MJL21194 transistors driven by H11D1 optos with 1n4001 and 1uf cap in parallel driven by SG3524 circuit

Battery start resting voltage 12.18v
Running about 8hz with less than 50% duty cycle
(have not hooked up scope to it yet to get exact measurements)
Noticed bulb pulses brighter on parallel charging part of cycle.
Bulb is dimly lit.
Battery bouncing between 12.09 and 12.10V for the last hour.
Will let it run and see what happens.

Alex

Hi Alex
Nice to see someone else also trying the scaler charger
I noticed that you supply the sg chip from your battery. It looks like you use a regulator, diode and resistor there?
Vissie

[StevanC]

Disappointed?

In your slick presentation (now that I GOT IT) - heck no . . .

In my retarded state of NOT GETTING IT? - one guess

Best,

Plazma

Plazma,

You say You find it useful?

"print+wall-hang" useful?



I made it to "scratch my ich" for I wasn't sure what impedance any of my battery has - now I see they had several hunderd ohms (=crap) but they are getting better now...




Stevan C.

P.S.
I'm too revisiting the "scalar charger" to see if it can "coatch" batteries, to give them "exercize" B)

[JANGYD]

Negistor

Hi All,

1)This post and waveform is very important to ME
These are my approacahes for experiments to verify it. Not sure before testing.

2)This waveform, I think, is from the negative of bottom battery to the positive
of top battery including the semiconductor or can be from the collector of
the transistor(or SCR) to the emitter of the transisor.
That's way the second emitter break down is important for semiconductors
and Its has to rate to 1Amp-DC about 100V.

3)And its timing is the leading edge of ON Time discharging the Capacitor to the battery.

4)The Tesla Switch or the Scalar Charger is doning the same thing, JB said.
One is the Potential charging with over 2V as well known.
The other is the current charge pumping driving the semiconductor negative.
The Current on 'the current charge pumping' is the electron-free current,
that is, can be, potential current or the negative energy current what we called.

5)The inverted circuit should be used.

6)'Dual Relay Charger' from Badellinei and Solid state version of JBs works differently.

7)I have experience on developing the CDT Monitor-Drivers of Deflection Yoke
and Drivers of Video Cathode.
About 15-years has passed and need some time for backup.


8)I always misunderstood JBs comments because of my lousy English skill,
and that makes the people misunderstood me, bothering them.

9)I have experience on developing the CDT Monitor-Drivers of Deflection Yoke
and Drivers of Video Cathode.
About 15-years has passed and need some time for backup.

10)Anyway I will test all varialbes around me with my approaches.
I hope I could be success and post my results.

MERRY CRISTMASS and HAPPY NEW YEAR.

JANG YOUNGDEUK

Matthew, "I'm Not yelling Here"
Look it is real simple if two batteries go into series minus the junction drop most of the heat will be in the transistor. This circuit works like a current charge pump. This is all about switching and how the switch works. The Tesla Switch is nothing more then a dual charger of which you can take energy from. You all must understand I do not like to use the term current because this is just the dissipation of the potential in the system which is the voltage. You want to use the least amount of current to charge the batteries, the batteries understand what the signal is since your scope can not see it. What you will notice is a sharp funny looking square wave, not what I have seen so far, I will try to take pictures for you all. The minimum scope must be at least 100Mhz to see anything. I was showing Peter yesterday when you get it switching right you will see the scope go negative 1 1/2 times the input, This would give you a COP of 2 anymore then this, John would not be around to talk about anything. I will try to draw it for you. The 50% duty cycle will do this, and you can run this down to 10% if you want. Try just building this simple at first so you can see what is going on. Timing is not the key the switch is and the device used. Right Leroy Good Job.
JB

[Plazma]

Is it Useful?

Hi StevenC,

I think you answered your own question - if you are
radiantly charging and knocking down sulfation then the
batteries get/will get better. You've got a nice graphic
that, as you suggest, points to a desired region of
performance at a glance and that is useful. And, John B's
blanket statement about lead/acid (I think L/A) chemistry
having a nominal ~2.3 milliOhms iR seems to corroborate.

JB was trying to point out that to get very accurate iR on
an individual battery, such was a challenge. Becausee JB has,
over so many years, been through probably hundreds of
batteries of so many varied chemistries, that he has a massive
experiential knowledge base - it must be an incredible
hoard of data. I wonder if JB has nomographs (and graphics
like you've just prepared) based on that wealth of data? Since
he manufactures radiant battery chargers do you want to
place any bets?

BTW - I've got some new, out of the case LA sealed batteries
here that have several hundred milliohms iR, too. That's what
started me on an iR witch hunt - NEW! - and nowhere close to the
magical 2.3 milliohms

Looks like we both have a lot of conditioning to do,
let alone TSw impedance matching

Best,

Plazma

Plazma,

You say You find it useful?

"print+wall-hang" useful?



I made it to "scratch my ich" for I wasn't sure what impedance any of my battery has - now I see they had several hunderd ohms (=crap) but they are getting better now...




Stevan C.

P.S.
I'm too revisiting the "scalar charger" to see if it can "coatch" batteries, to give them "exercize" B)

[Plazma]

Important Distinctions . . .

Hi Jang,

I read and then re-read your post a couple of times and
I thought you clearly presented your interpretation

Keep Posting! I'm looking forward to seeing your experimental
results.

Merry Christmas,

Plazma

Hi All,

1)This post and waveform is very important to ME
These are my approacahes for experiments to verify it. Not sure before testing.

2)This waveform, I think, is from the negative of bottom battery to the positive
of top battery including the semiconductor or can be from the collector of
the transistor(or SCR) to the emitter of the transisor.
That's way the second emitter break down is important for semiconductors
and Its has to rate to 1Amp-DC about 100V.

3)And its timing is the leading edge of ON Time discharging the Capacitor to the battery.

4)The Tesla Switch or the Scalar Charger is doning the same thing, JB said.
One is the Potential charging with over 2V as well known.
The other is the current charge pumping driving the semiconductor negative.
The Current on 'the current charge pumping' is the electron-free current,
that is, can be, potential current or the negative energy current what we called.

5)The inverted circuit should be used.

6)'Dual Relay Charger' from Badellinei and Solid state version of JBs works differently.

7)I have experience on developing the CDT Monitor-Drivers of Deflection Yoke
and Drivers of Video Cathode.
About 15-years has passed and need some time for backup.


8)I always misunderstood JBs comments because of my lousy English skill,
and that makes the people misunderstood me, bothering them.

9)I have experience on developing the CDT Monitor-Drivers of Deflection Yoke
and Drivers of Video Cathode.
About 15-years has passed and need some time for backup.

10)Anyway I will test all varialbes around me with my approaches.
I hope I could be success and post my results.

MERRY CRISTMASS and HAPPY NEW YEAR.

JANG YOUNGDEUK

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

This is interesting (D-TS testing)

Team, I have found that if I "pulse" the tranny's at 750ms and input a pause of 70ms between them, this becomes the optimal charging ratio (duty cycle) without "heating" the tranny's up. BTW my coil is 6.3 Ohms and I belive I am getting a spike of over 100V. As a side note, I had to remove the op amp (sensing circuit) as I did not have it properly isolated in the circuit and it was causing Q1 to bias and stay on. I have re-designed the sensing circuit to be just a simple voltage divider. Something to be said for the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle. I have a waveform now just like what John had drawn.

Bit's

[hherby]

Hi Alex
Nice to see someone else also trying the scaler charger
I noticed that you supply the sg chip from your battery. It looks like you use a regulator, diode and resistor there?
Vissie

Hi Vissie,
Yes, you are right. I have a 100 ohm resistor, 13v zener and 10v regulator and a 220uf cap on the output of the vreg. I did this to limit the supply voltage in case I used a DC source greater than a 12v battery. The 13v zener is an effort to protect the voltage regulator which will heat up too much if input gets too high. I may put a higher value zener there or multiple 13v in series in case it is chopping off the spike meant for the battery. It is also an effort to protect the IC and keep its output stable. I built the SG3524 circuit to be a multi-purpose setup that could be used for more than just the task at hand. It has a socket to hold up to two timing capacitors for different frequency ranges and I used higher value pots for varying the frequency(1MOhm) and duty cycle(500kohm). You can see in the picture in my last post that I have the 100k and 200k resistors bypassed with test clips for more variable frequency adjustment for this test setup. So I should be able to use this sg3524 circuit variant for the scalar charger or the 4 battery switch or even possibly a "dielectric emf recycler" or anything else that would need 1 or 2 channels of pwm driven transistor switching like a solid state ssg without a trigger winding.

I also made the transistor driver board with the provision to drive up to 12 transistors (6 per channel) using screw terminal blocks for easy addition/removal/replacement of transistors, easy connection of collector/emitter wires and easy attachment of common heat sink etc... . I think you can guess where I might be heading with this.

Preliminary test results:
I let the setup run for about 4 hours. In that time the voltage on the battery dropped to 12.08v. I disconnected the battery after the test run to let it rest and I measured it this morning. It had returned to its original standing voltage of 12.18v. Although the battery did not gain a net charge, it did drive the load and all of the switching so it is a promising start.

I will also try powering the sg circuit separately from the the charging battery. I might try using a small transformer as the load with the secondary hooked up to a bridge to charge a cap to power the sg circuit. So much to try, so little time.

In my last post I observed the bulb flashed brighter when the capacitors were in the parallel charging part of the cycle. Would photo flash caps do a better job here on discharge? Or is it more likely that the bulb is dimmer on discharge because the cap discharge current would be out of phase with the cap discharge voltage (power factor < 1) ?

Comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Alex

[hherby]

Team, I have found that if I "pulse" the tranny's at 750ms and input a pause of 70ms between them, this becomes the optimal charging ratio (duty cycle) without "heating" the tranny's up. BTW my coil is 6.3 Ohms and I belive I am getting a spike of over 100V. As a side note, I had to remove the op amp (sensing circuit) as I did not have it properly isolated in the circuit and it was causing Q1 to bias and stay on. I have re-designed the sensing circuit to be just a simple voltage divider. Something to be said for the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle. I have a waveform now just like what John had drawn.

Bit's

Hi Bit's,

Is this 6.3ohm coil the same configuration as before? 18awg, 150 turns, welding rod core or did this change?

Thanks
Alex

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hi Bit's,

Is this 6.3ohm coil the same configuration as before? 18awg, 150 turns, welding rod core or did this change?

Thanks
Alex

Hi Alex, it changed now to 22AWG air core--not sure the number of turns.

Bit's