Use for the Tesla Switch

[Matthew Jones]

You'll fry them, that is what will happen. I'm sort of kidding, sort of not. JB talks about balancing the load, and if all the batteries are at the same potential, then it is all the better, but I fried more components with two scrs (or transistors) without the upper and lower ones than I care to mention. Had to air out the lab (garage) it was so smokey and smelly.

Well they are not frying... In fact its running rather well. A little hot. I did cook one, but I raised the resistor to the base and shortened the pulse.
I have 2 loads based on direction. Small 12 volt 250 milliamp bulbs. 35 amp diodes 1n1183.

I am going to take the scope over the house tomorrow and look at them.

Where did you get the following info about 17 volt...?

he MJLs need about 17V to go negative (reverse conduct), and here, there just isn't enough voltage for this to happen.

Why don't we have enough voltage? You can't step up or step down voltage?

I can make this effect happen using a coil and a mechanical switch. I am just not sure how you would drive a transistor to make this effect.

So how are you currently driving that particular transistor in your circuit, with an opto? Could you draw it up for me. I think it would be just like my relay/transistor version I put up a while back but I want to see.

I got try a couple of more things but if the MJL's can be driven into a negative state with reverse voltage thats not hard to come up with.. Hopefully.

Matt

[John_K]

Yes, definitely doable, but I was speaking about the solar charger that JB showed. In relation to the TS with 4 batteries, you are definitely on target, that is a good way to get some radiant charge back into the system to keep it going and have fewer losses. I've been waiting for someone to comment on my suggestion. You are, as always, insightful my friend.

What is your opinion of charging in serial and discharging in parallel? Charging will be faster, and the kick in charging the battery more significant. You could do this with the SSG as well.

Lero

Lero,

I figure that as long as we have to have a load on the TS it might as well be a load that converts all the "wasted" energy into something we can use. JB said that you could use the Monopole for this. Not many took notice (with respect to everyone).

I got my idea from the solar charger as well.

Charging in serial (24V) and discharging in parallel (12V) is the way to go. I have a solid-state energizer that fills a 34,000uF cap to 30V and dumps it every 2.5 seconds. The amp meter reads 2A when it dumps - that's a 60W "real power" pulse to the charging battery. The energizer runs at 500 - 600Hz 99% d/c or ~200mA @ 13V for 2.5 seconds - 2.6W. IMO this is an ideal load for a TS.

I just need to figure out the switching to dump the cap into the 12V parallel bank at the same time the TS switches banks.

John K.

[ldissing]

Well they are not frying... In fact its running rather well. A little hot. I did cook one, but I raised the resistor to the base and shortened the pulse.
I have 2 loads based on direction. Small 12 volt 250 milliamp bulbs. 35 amp diodes 1n1183.

I am going to take the scope over the house tomorrow and look at them.

Where did you get the following info about 17 volt...?


Why don't we have enough voltage? You can't step up or step down voltage?

I can make this effect happen using a coil and a mechanical switch. I am just not sure how you would drive a transistor to make this effect.

So how are you currently driving that particular transistor in your circuit, with an opto? Could you draw it up for me. I think it would be just like my relay/transistor version I put up a while back but I want to see.

I got try a couple of more things but if the MJL's can be driven into a negative state with reverse voltage thats not hard to come up with.. Hopefully.

Matt

I am glad you are not frying as many components as I did. My components were too small originally, and I'm using 35 amp diodes now, so maybe I should try it once again. My batteries are 17 amp hour batteries, so maybe they are too big to do testing with for now. They can put out some amperage when shorted. Way over 30 amps, because they burn out 30 amp fuses when I hook crap up wrong. Guess I should just put some 30 amp fuses in line with the system and let them burn out before the diodes do.


To see where the MJLs (or any transitor that WILL go into reverse conduction) will go into reverse conduction, you can use the circuit presented by Naudin. There is another site too which I can find in my archives that have circuits that show the sawtooth wave form when the transistor goes into reverse conduction (negative resistance) mode. JB said we were smart enough to figure it out, but nobody has made a comment on that to date, and I'm not smart enough, so I will not try.

17Vs is just my observation with the MJLs and a scope over that part with one particular circuit, but I'm no expert. JB says it will do it, I have just not seen it and my scope probes are fried I guess, because my waveforms are all pretty much just all over the place right now.

If you are adding some things into the load, I'm assuming you can create either a boost or buck situation at the load. But it will be reversed from the direction you really want it, it seems to me....at least until the next switch. But I'm a moron, as you already know, so do not listen to me.

Create a simple circuit to see where the MJL will go into reverse conduction. Try it out and see. Put a resistor from the power source, like 10K, to the emitter of the transistor. The collector is tied to ground, and a 1uF (or so) capacitor is also from emitter to collector or ground. Watch the waveform and see where it reverse conducts. The waveform will start low and then peak, then straight down, then up in a sawtooth wave form. The peak is the voltage at which you will see the "negative" resistance and it will decrease until the transistor shuts off. Create that situation in the TS and you will have the result you seek. I have not see this in my latest builds and did not know what to look for in the earlier builds.

I do not think you drive the transistor into that situation. It happens when it is reversed from normal operation and that particular voltage is hit. When the emitter vs collector exceeds X volts for a particular transistor, it happens by itself with no bias on the base. JB is the expert, maybe he will answer and he is worth a listen, not me.

Leroy

P.S. Every time I write to you (personal problem), I feel like I'm a moron. Not that you have ever said that you think I am, but you ask questions that I can not answer. The teacher must answer, and that is definitely not me. I am learning as fast as I can and testing all that I can as fast as I can. Trying to be helpful, but maybe not!

[ldissing]

Lero,

I figure that as long as we have to have a load on the TS it might as well be a load that converts all the "wasted" energy into something we can use. JB said that you could use the Monopole for this. Not many took notice (with respect to everyone).

I got my idea from the solar charger as well.

Charging in serial (24V) and discharging in parallel (12V) is the way to go. I have a solid-state energizer that fills a 34,000uF cap to 30V and dumps it every 2.5 seconds. The amp meter reads 2A when it dumps - that's a 60W "real power" pulse to the charging battery. The energizer runs at 500 - 600Hz 99% d/c or ~200mA @ 13V for 2.5 seconds - 2.6W. IMO this is an ideal load for a TS.

I just need to figure out the switching to dump the cap into the 12V parallel bank at the same time the TS switches banks.

John K.

Well, from the SSG, take two of those 34000uf caps and put then on a TS. Charge then when the TS is switched to serial mode. Then put them in parallel and discharge to the battery. That would be 2 times the power at 1/2 the rate, i.e. 4 times the power delivered. Interesting concept no?

From the 4 battery TS, just go digital for control. Use the optos, from a "computer", it is no big deal then. Just before the switch, switch the caps to parallel, and discharge via another opto and SCR (or tranny) to the 12V side of your choice. Just need a few more components in there.

Leroy

[nvisser]

Alright we know the 2 switch should work. But we all seem to have to add a switch to keep it from shorting.
Matt

Matthew
This was John`s answer to my question why the the transistor switch fry the components

Nvisser,
Are you using the SG chip?
You must balance the load between switches through a light bulb 3 amps or resistors and big ones, what diodes are you using? I hope big ones 25 amp or better.
JB

[nilrehob]

analog computer

@ldissing, EgmQC, Murlin, ...

Here is JL Naudins take on Longitudinal Waves and analog computer:
The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test

/Hob

[hherby]

The wave

Ok,
I'm going back all over what we discussed here, I will start at ground zero if I must do that. It should be quite easy to make the simple circuits work.
Aaron is correct that what Peter and I discussed has been ignored. I also found that what Bill and Ray handed me as a diagram does not work, something is missing from the switch. Where did I get that wave, across the switching transistors in the four battery Tesla switch.

"Ronald Brandt did not invent the switch as he just was trying to figure out what the circuit was that was powering his electric car and why it kept blowing up"
.
The key factor may be the driver transformers!!!!!!!!! in the original circuit.

Baldinelli is the guy Aaron is talking about, this is the key to the success of the system. In the statements by Gabriel Kron, it is said what to change, Leroy pointed this out in a early post here. The currents can be very confusing as they take place in semiconductors.

Kron calls them
'lamellar' currents, A network with the simultaneous presence of both closed and open paths. And, noting a type of armor composed of small plates or lames laced together. Can be Interpreted as, small branch currents combining to form one big current, any semiconductor works this way, even different types of rocks.

“When only positive and negative real numbers exist, it is customary to replace a positive resistance by an inductance and a negative resistance by a capacitor
This is a sneaky statement but correct.
Looking at this statement, if collecting negative energy we use the capacitor, example, SG circuit.

The battery acts just like a capacitor, resistor, inductor. what is in the SG circuit that uses the positive, the coil. The semiconductor runs on 'lamellar' currents, how else could it move electrons, but through holes, which are branches or small pipes.[/SIZE]

John B

@JB,
I can't get the thought out of my head of the parallel between an SG coil and a battery. They both possess the ability to act like a capacitor, resistor and inductor. So each battery is like a coil. Then I remembered back when my SG started to self oscillate due to high resistance in the trigger. Now back to the wave that you sketched out. From studying the base-emitter vs collector-emitter waveforms on the ssg, when the signal across the base-emitter was high, the signal across the collector-emmiter was low (while conducting, the voltage drop was near zero across the collector-emitter). Your sketch does not seem to show this characteristic. This leads me to believe the transistor is switched off. By chance were you seeing that wave across the transistor between the parallel bank while that transistor was switched off? Is that wave showing a reverse breakdown or secondary breakdown of the transistor? Now that I think about it, the wave is quite similar to what I saw in the sg cap charge/discharge when the scr was triggered by a neon. I hope I am not way out in left field for a change. I may very well be standing out in the parking lot instead of in the ball park.

Cheers,
Alex

[ldissing]

Matthew
This was John`s answer to my question why the the transistor switch fry the components

Nvisser,
Are you using the SG chip?
You must balance the load between switches through a light bulb 3 amps or resistors and big ones, what diodes are you using? I hope big ones 25 amp or better.
JB

I'm glad you re-pointed me to this post. Thought about that yesterday but last night, I totally forgot about it AGAIN, and I'm gonna need some bigger bulbs, or a lot more smaller ones.

When JB says resistors and big ones, I assume he means big in power, not big in ohms. Probably less than 10 ohms and greater than 50W or something. A 3 amp bulb at 6Vs would have a resistance of 2 ohms and the power would be 18W or so. Any dissenters out there on this one? If I can find the bulbs, I will try it today - as soon as I can.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I'm glad you re-pointed me to this post. Thought about that yesterday but last night, I totally forgot about it AGAIN, and I'm gonna need some bigger bulbs, or a lot more smaller ones.

When JB says resistors and big ones, I assume he means big in power, not big in ohms. Probably less than 10 ohms and greater than 50W or something. A 3 amp bulb at 6Vs would have a resistance of 2 ohms and the power would be 18W or so. Any dissenters out there on this one? If I can find the bulbs, I will try it today - as soon as I can.

Leroy

I am only trying to figure out where the 6volts comes into play. I would think across the load you would see the range of 12 - 18v which would then be a 12v bulb at about 36 - 55w. Am I missing something?

Bit's

[Murlin]

complicated

JB said this was not really suppose to be that complicated.

He showed us the hand drawn waveform and it looks like the negative is twice as long as the positive.

I thought Mathew said somewhere that he could recreate that waveform just by firing one side twice to the other side once. So I could do a (fire-fire) (fire) (Dead Time) / (fire) (fire-fire) if that makes any sense. That would make one pulse width twice as long as the other one. I will be able to try different variations of firing sequences with my new commutator design. It will take a couple weeks(or longer) to make it though as I do it in my spare time.

I believe most the information I had on the TS when I started building my commutator lead me in the wrong direction. But I have learned allot.

I think you guys have it within your grasp.....

PS to John Bedini.....I was looking over your site the other day, first time there....wow you have a bunch of great info there. I really like the type "A" generator.

regards,

Murlin

[ldissing]

I am only trying to figure out where the 6volts comes into play. I would think across the load you would see the range of 12 - 18v which would then be a 12v bulb at about 36 - 55w. Am I missing something?

Bit's

Bit's, I want the batteries to charge. JB said you have roughly 6 volts left to play with, i.e. 6V load, I'd actually like to use a 4 volt load. I'm not saying that is all you could put in there, but I'd like to see the batteries increase in voltage, i.e. a charger without external input. You can always use a battery to supply potential to a load, it do not "have" to be in the switch. When it gets low, put it in the switch and take a charged one out. Charge it up and you are golden, with NO external power required.

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Bit's, I want the batteries to charge. JB said you have roughly 6 volts left to play with, i.e. 6V load, I'd actually like to use a 4 volt load. I'm not saying that is all you could put in there, but I'd like to see the batteries increase in voltage, i.e. a charger without external input. You can always use a battery to supply potential to a load, it do not "have" to be in the switch. When it gets low, put it in the switch and take a charged one out. Charge it up and you are golden, with NO external power required.

Leroy

It's certainaly a balancing act. I started with a small 6V bulb, but in trying to build up the potential so that we could send approx. 14V to the paralleled batts, quickly burned the bulb up. I have the switching down now and focusing back on the load to optimize. I will try 36 to 55W bulbs to see what I can get.

Bit's

[ldissing]

It's certainaly a balancing act. I started with a small 6V bulb, but in trying to build up the potential so that we could send approx. 14V to the paralleled batts, quickly burned the bulb up. I have the switching down now and focusing back on the load to optimize. I will try 36 to 55W bulbs to see what I can get.

Bit's

I just put 1.5 ohm 22W resistors in there with a 20% duty cycle at 2Hz, we'll see what happens. Transistors got a little warm with a 50% duty, but not hot, just warm to the touch. Don't want to burn those puppies up!

Leroy

[Plazma]

A Very Reluctant Post . . .

Been going in lots of circles, getting nowhere

So, I am very nervous about posting what I'm now working on (probably I will get toasted just like my last batch of parts, but what the heck).

I'm building a 2 switch plus some diodes Tesla Switch . . . one of these for the 2-bat A side, and one for the 2-bat B side.

Since my rig is digital, I will use 4 Douts and 4 Opto assemblies to the 4 trannies.

The trannies will be located one inbetween the 2 batteries on each side - and one at the BOTTOM of the stack on each side with load(s) as appropriate. Diodes should do the rest.

I will program the timed Douts in such a way that there is a tuneable delay between when the middle trannie gets turned on (to line up and stabilize the quasi-24 volts, or so), and when the big kahuna at the bottom of the stack finally gets turned on (that for both sides in timed sequence).

I will not go into all of the reasons - the above is to test a peculiar theory I have. I will post more after I get some results.

Cheers,

Plazma

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Been going in lots of circles, getting nowhere

So, I am very nervous about posting what I'm now working on (probably I will get toasted just like my last batch of parts, but what the heck).

I'm building a 2 switch plus some diodes Tesla Switch . . . one of these for the 2-bat A side, and one for the 2-bat B side.

Since my rig is digital, I will use 4 Douts and 4 Opto assemblies to the 4 trannies.

The trannies will be located one inbetween the 2 batteries on each side - and one at the BOTTOM of the stack on each side with load(s) as appropriate. Diodes should do the rest.

I will program the timed Douts in such a way that there is a tuneable delay between when the middle trannie gets turned on (to line up and stabilize the quasi-24 volts, or so), and when the big kahuna at the bottom of the stack finally gets turned on (that for both sides in timed sequence).

I will not go into all of the reasons - the above is to test a peculiar theory I have. I will post more after I get some results.

Cheers,

Plazma

Interesting Concept Plaz, Good Luck.

Bit's