Use for the Tesla Switch

[blackchisel97]

Hello guys I know this question is a little off topic but I thought this would be the best thread to ask it in. I'm experimenting with the 3 battery TS and I want to know what is the function of the transistors? I've played with the set up a year ago briefly but wired up the batteries directly without the transistors or diode. You could run the load off the 2 negatives or 2 positives and get charging to 1 battery. When running a 12 volt bulb for example my transistors get hot which tells me I'm wasting power. So for what I'm doing I'm thinking about doing away with the transistors unless there is some advantage. Thanks in advance for any comments.

Mark

Mark. Those transistors act like a switches. In 3 battery setup which was shown by John Bedini while ago, transistors are biased with 100 Ohm resistors and the one in neg. branch we can switch manually or with other means (oscillator). You have to choose the load (light bulb) carefully to get charging without overheating trannies. There is a difference between hard switching and switching through transistor junction.


Vtech

[John_K]

Lero,

Yes, I was going to try running the SSE off a single bridge and a cap.

I've played with just a bridge and cap and running a small load (DC motor) off the cap, which did work. The SSE should be a lot more efficient than a DC motor I'd think.

That's why my code sets up the TS switches first and then applies the SSE as a load. After the cap is charged, it dumps to the 5th battery and then disconnects the SSE load, waits for the TS to switch (if it has to) and then the cycle repeats.

The code still needs tweaking, which is obviously easier with a working PICAXE and TS in front of you! I think I might go with a PICAXE-28X1 kit, it's only a few more bucks and comes with a better proto board. I can see myself running out of i/o pins before long with the 18X. I have other ideas that I need more i/o pins for.

Once I have the code down, I can just solder in a suitably sized DIP socket for the appropriately sized PIC onto a permament board.

One step at a time, though...

John K.

Ambitious, I'm thinking not. My big bulb scenario is using around .8 amps, and it likes it just fine (and charges), so I don't think you will have any problems. You are talking about using the cap to drive the SSE, right? I think the cap situation is actually the best scenario, because the cap is at 4-10V when the "usage" happens, which allows it to run the SSE and then it will discharge to 0-4 V, then it is charged again. So, the batteries can always have an excess potential because the cap is dischaged, just soaking up available potential....Maybe you need two SSEs to utilized all of the charge that the two capacitors will have. OR, you could utilize a bridge and just a single cap. It is an interesting experiment.

I need to do this too, as I have a SSE ready to go. I just want the stinkin' (I should have said nice little fellows) batteries charged all the time.

Lero

[Mark]

Mark. Those transistors act like a switches. In 3 battery setup which was shown by John Bedini while ago, transistors are biased with 100 Ohm resistors and the one in neg. branch we can switch manually or with other means (oscillator). You have to choose the load (light bulb) carefully to get charging without overheating trannies. There is a difference between hard switching and switching through transistor junction.


Vtech

Blackchisel97 I understand that the transistors are switches but when using them with a light bulb aren't they just on the whole time? I can understand that if an oscillator or SSG was used as a load they would be switching on and off but with a bulbs seems like they would just be on the whole time and not really have a function. I guess I still don't have a grasp as to whats going on here.

[ldissing]

Blackchisel97 I understand that the transistors are switches but when using them with a light bulb aren't they just on the whole time? I can understand that if an oscillator or SSG was used as a load they would be switching on and off but with a bulbs seems like they would just be on the whole time and not really have a function. I guess I still don't have a grasp as to whats going on here.

Mark,

When JB showed us the 3 battery switch with transistors, he was attempting to get us to see which way the potential was flowing. You did not "need" the other transistors in there, but when you get to the 4 battery tesla switch, they are needed (at least most of them) to get both sides switching. Switching causes the potentials to move to the other side and back again, allowing you to power some device or charge batteries, etc. You will have to go back and read a lot to know what this device is about (and even after reading all that, you will be at square one...lots of things to learn).

Leroy

[Mark]

Okay let me ask this in a different more direct way.

1. In a 3 battery TS when using just a bulb as a load the transistors are just "on" the whole time. Is this correct.

2. On the 3 battery TS if an SSG was used as a load then the transistors would be switching on and off. Is this correct.

I'm doing something a little different then you guys and just want to verify that these 2 things are actually correct.

Sorry for the intrusion.

Mark

[ldissing]

Okay let me ask this in a different more direct way.

1. In a 3 battery TS when using just a bulb as a load the transistors are just "on" the whole time. Is this correct.

2. On the 3 battery TS if an SSG was used as a load then the transistors would be switching on and off. Is this correct.

I'm doing something a little different then you guys and just want to verify that these 2 things are actually correct.

Sorry for the intrusion.

Mark

1. That depends on what you do. You can hook it up and turn the transistor on, or you could pulse it. You could also drive it with an oscillator and make it turn on and off. This is up to you.

2. It still depends on what you are wanting to do and how you hook it up. The SSG just needs some potential to drive the coil. I assume you'd put a cap as the actual "load" and the SSG would just pull potential/current from the capacitor instead of a battery. When the SSG is "off", not pulsing the coil, the batteries would fill up the cap, and when the SSG is "on", the batteries would be supplying the cap and SSG. In other words, the cap would be pretty much (if not totally) full all the time. Whatever potential exists between the 2 in series and the 3rd battery would be the potential/voltage on the capacitor and the "supply" for the SSG.

You could "pulse" the transistors, or not. What do you want to do? The transistors with 100 ohm resistors into the base are ON all the time, unless you take the source potential into that resistor away with an opto or a relay, or some other method. The transistors themselves do not decide to be "on" or "off" no matter how you hook them up. If a signal is provided, then it will do what it does depending on the signal. If the signal is static, then so is the transistor, i.e. either on or off. Signal on, transistor on, signal off, transistor off.

I think you want to do something, but have not said what that "something" is.

I'm not trying to be funny or anything, the answers to you questions depend on how you hook it up.

Leroy

[ldissing]

Okay let me ask this in a different more direct way.

1. In a 3 battery TS when using just a bulb as a load the transistors are just "on" the whole time. Is this correct.

2. On the 3 battery TS if an SSG was used as a load then the transistors would be switching on and off. Is this correct.

I'm doing something a little different then you guys and just want to verify that these 2 things are actually correct.

Sorry for the intrusion.

Mark

Maybe you really mean that if you hooked a bifilar coil up (more like the solid state verion of the ssg), and used the trigger on the bottom transistor, would it turn on and off. Then yes, it would, but only the bottom transistor would. That bottom transistor would replace the one in the solid state version and while the others would not turn on and off, they will only conduct when the bottom one is on...so in essence, they sort of turn on and off too.

[Mark]

Okay let me ask this in a different more direct way.

1. In a 3 battery TS when using just a bulb as a load the transistors are just "on" the whole time. Is this correct.

2. On the 3 battery TS if an SSG was used as a load then the transistors would be switching on and off. Is this correct.

I'm doing something a little different then you guys and just want to verify that these 2 things are actually correct.

Sorry for the intrusion.

Mark

Idissing your reading to much into my question. The 3 battery TS that JB posted. In part 1 of my question its a simple 12 volt bulb nothing else. You've pretty much answered that question as a yes.

In part 2 the same set up but instead of a bulb as a load the load would be a simple SSG no caps on the input or output. Just a simple monopole energizer charging a battery with the output of the energizer.

My question is so simple that you must have assumed there was more to it but there's not. I just want to make sure that when using a pulsing circuit like an SSG without a cap on the front end that the transistors on the 3 battery TS would be switching and not just held in the "on" or "switched" position. Thanks for your help and sorry for all the confusion.

Mark

[ldissing]

Idissing your reading to much into my question. The 3 battery TS that JB posted. In part 1 of my question its a simple 12 volt bulb nothing else. You've pretty much answered that question as a yes.

In part 2 the same set up but instead of a bulb as a load the load would be a simple SSG no caps on the input or output. Just a simple monopole energizer charging a battery with the output of the energizer.

My question is so simple that you must have assumed there was more to it but there's not. I just want to make sure that when using a pulsing circuit like an SSG without a cap on the front end that the transistors on the 3 battery TS would be switching and not just held in the "on" or "switched" position. Thanks for your help and sorry for all the confusion.

Mark

I do not know how you are going to hook it up. Are you going to put the coil wire that normally goes to the positive of the supply battery on the negative on battery 3. Are you going to put the coil wire that normally goes to the transistor, to the transistor on the bottom of the 3 battery switch, or to another transistor? If you are going to use that transistor on the bottom AS the transistor in the SSG, then it will turn on and off as the SSG magnet passes the core of the coil and then swings away. The coil would have to be the load, not "the SSG". If you are not planning on using that bottom transistor as the SSG transistor, then I don't know how else you would hook it up.

If you hook it up as I'm assuming, the other two transistors will not turn on and off....they are statically connected.


Leroy

[Murlin]

(and a 'volunteer' named 'Murlin' will be our LA-Battery Czar)

Well I am in the process of modifying my old switch to get more dead time before I make the new one.

I think I might be able to get 20% dead time, right now I might have 3-5%. The spike will be hard to see with all that distortion on the scope. But I should be able to tell by the charge rate whether or not I have more of it.

Does anyone know what I could use to filter out some of it? I have one of those huge old analog scopes. Cooling fan/filter in the back. It weigh a ton. Cant find a name brand on it.

Please take a look at my scope shots.....

It takes me a little longer to make changes to my switch because it's all mechanical.

The new switch should be adjustable to about 60% dead time if I need it.

regards,

Murlin

[StevanC]

Mark,
those two BJT are "latched" or biased forward.

As long as the bottom one IS closed, all three - devices experience current passing them - dissipating some heat.

As long as the bottom one is OPEN all three are "idling" without any noticeable current passing - no heat dissipated at all.

The MJL21194 is an interesting transistor - expect no less than poor results with any other instead.

If I would run a SSG as a load, I would "shunt" in a mF range capacitor - no worry for the TS process?

Stevan C.

[nvisser]

6 Transistor switch

My 6 transistor switch has been running 24h since I received my MJL`s that Bytes posted me from the States
I use shotkey diodes that have a voltage drop of only 0.25v over them.
I pulse each side every 1 second .Unfortunately my TL494 flip flop is not functioning properly and I cannot adjust the duty cycle below 50% at such a low frequency.
That is probably why IT DOES NOT CHARGES!!!!
I hope….
My first load was 2 x 6V, 21W lamps. They flashed bright.
The batteries dropped about 0.75V each in 20 hours!
This afternoon I replaced them with 12V 21W bulbs. The batteries dropped even faster
The interesting thing I saw was that the lower the resistance of the lamp (higher wattage) the lower the voltage drop over the loads was and the more are available over the parallel batteries for charging. But then of course it also drains them faster when in series mode.
Currently I use 4 x 6V , 5ma lamp in parallel on each load .. That gives me 13.9V available over the parallel battery
I measured as follows when it switches very slow
Series batteries.. 11.98v and 11.99V = 23.97v
Drop over series transistor - 1.48v
Drop over bottom parr. Transistor -1.38v
Drop over load (small lamps in parr) -7.15v
Drop over shotkey diode -0.25v
Avaialble over parr.batteries =13.9V
You can measure that result if you put the positive lead of your voltmeter on the top positive of the series batteries and the negative probe on any one of the parallel batteries negatives.
As I said by adding lamps to the load the voltage drop over them goes down and more become available on the parallel batteries.
I will work on getting the flop flop to adjust duty cycle.
Mr. Bedini I would appreciate it if you can give us some pointers here. I think it is just something small I am overlooking
I included a photo of my setup.

[StevanC]

nvisser,
excellent job!

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

My 6 transistor switch has been running 24h since I received my MJL`s that Bytes posted me from the States
I use shotkey diodes that have a voltage drop of only 0.25v over them.
I pulse each side every 1 second .Unfortunately my TL494 flip flop is not functioning properly and I cannot adjust the duty cycle below 50% at such a low frequency.
That is probably why IT DOES NOT CHARGES!!!!
I hope….
My first load was 2 x 6V, 21W lamps. They flashed bright.
The batteries dropped about 0.75V each in 20 hours!
This afternoon I replaced them with 12V 21W bulbs. The batteries dropped even faster
The interesting thing I saw was that the lower the resistance of the lamp (higher wattage) the lower the voltage drop over the loads was and the more are available over the parallel batteries for charging. But then of course it also drains them faster when in series mode.
Currently I use 4 x 6V , 5ma lamp in parallel on each load .. That gives me 13.9V available over the parallel battery
I measured as follows when it switches very slow
Series batteries.. 11.98v and 11.99V = 23.97v
Drop over series transistor - 1.48v
Drop over bottom parr. Transistor -1.38v
Drop over load (small lamps in parr) -7.15v
Drop over shotkey diode -0.25v
Avaialble over parr.batteries =13.9V
You can measure that result if you put the positive lead of your voltmeter on the top positive of the series batteries and the negative probe on any one of the parallel batteries negatives.
As I said by adding lamps to the load the voltage drop over them goes down and more become available on the parallel batteries.
I will work on getting the flop flop to adjust duty cycle.
Mr. Bedini I would appreciate it if you can give us some pointers here. I think it is just something small I am overlooking
I included a photo of my setup.

Nice job Vissie.

Bit's

[Inquorate]

Okay let me ask this in a different more direct way.

1. In a 3 battery TS when using just a bulb as a load the transistors are just "on" the whole time. Is this correct.

2. On the 3 battery TS if an SSG was used as a load then the transistors would be switching on and off. Is this correct.

I'm doing something a little different then you guys and just want to verify that these 2 things are actually correct.

Sorry for the intrusion.

Mark

@ Mark, i think it won't need the extra transistors; one should suffice.

i was just describing my take on the ss ssg + 3 bat TS to Ted over on his forum..

this is what should happen: (link to a post there)

Conditioned bedini capacitors discharged to each other from series to parallel - Heretical Builders