Use for the Tesla Switch

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I cannot see any relays on your diagram. I see transformers but it does'nt show where the outputs go
Must batt1's positive not be on the input of the regulator like the other 3 batteries
So I have no idea what this citcuits does till I see the video tonight

Hey Vissie, I didn’t have time to update the drawing. Where there are transformers shown, replace them with relay coils.

Bit's

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I deleted the drawing and will repost a clean updated version.

Sorry,

Bit's

[John_K]

Hi All,

I've been in sick bay for the past week or so and haven't spent much time on the TS.

Good to see Gene is here as well.

I did get some time to hook up a rotored SSG as the load, but without switching sides or even pulsing the one side. I mainly wanted to see how it would work, which it does.

Of course the output of the SSG was charging another battery. That's about as far as I got before the dreaded stomach bug got me late last week.

I did play with replacing batts 2&4 with with a couple of caps, which did have interesting results. No gain in charge in batts 1&4, but no loss either which was kind of encouraging. It was a crude attempt at a scalar charger which I might come back to one day.

I do like Gene's idea with the 3 wire trafo, although I can't think of a reason why you could not use a solid state SSG variant in it's place.

I also like Matt's relay ideas (and great vid Bit's, thanx). I haven't tried relays since I got my picaxe, so there's another thing to try as well.

I also had a crazy idea that somehow you could replace the 6 transistors with solid state SSGs, each with their own bi-filar coil but that idea needs a lot more thought.

Gee, just when I was running out of ideas along comes more stuff to try on the bench.


John K.

P.S. Another thought: remember when someone asked JB what the big capacitor was doing on his TS board and he said "that was for self-running, but I goofed it up". Anyone else agree that this was an early proto for the solar TS and the cap was for matching the impedance of the solar panels?

[ldissing]

Hi All,

I've been in sick bay for the past week or so and haven't spent much time on the TS.

Good to see Gene is here as well.

I did get some time to hook up a rotored SSG as the load, but without switching sides or even pulsing the one side. I mainly wanted to see how it would work, which it does.

Of course the output of the SSG was charging another battery. That's about as far as I got before the dreaded stomach bug got me late last week.

I did play with replacing batts 2&4 with with a couple of caps, which did have interesting results. No gain in charge in batts 1&4, but no loss either which was kind of encouraging. It was a crude attempt at a scalar charger which I might come back to one day.

I do like Gene's idea with the 3 wire trafo, although I can't think of a reason why you could not use a solid state SSG variant in it's place.

I also like Matt's relay ideas (and great vid Bit's, thanx). I haven't tried relays since I got my picaxe, so there's another thing to try as well.

I also had a crazy idea that somehow you could replace the 6 transistors with solid state SSGs, each with their own bi-filar coil but that idea needs a lot more thought.

Gee, just when I was running out of ideas along comes more stuff to try on the bench.


John K.

P.S. Another thought: remember when someone asked JB what the big capacitor was doing on his TS board and he said "that was for self-running, but I goofed it up". Anyone else agree that this was an early proto for the solar TS and the cap was for matching the impedance of the solar panels?

John K., all the rest is cool stuff, but.....

No, John K., I do not agree. I do NOT think the cap was to be used as a matching impedance for solar panels, but to ONLY power the main circuit. The cap was WAY to small for any kind of solar impedance matching. As JB has said, 20 F, get that, 20 Farads as a match. But what the H e double toothpicks do I know.

Glad you are feeling better!

Leroy

P.S. I'm not being negative, just disagreeing on this particular question. Did you see the HUGE capacitor on the power supply that he was using as a "solar equivalent"...if not, re-watch the first vid.

[John_K]

John K., all the rest is cool stuff, but.....

No, John K., I do not agree. I do NOT think the cap was to be used as a matching impedance for solar panels, but to ONLY power the main circuit. The cap was WAY to small for any kind of solar impedance matching. As JB has said, 20 F, get that, 20 Farads as a match. But what the H e double toothpicks do I know.

Glad you are feeling better!

Leroy

P.S. I'm not being negative, just disagreeing on this particular question. Did you see the HUGE capacitor on the power supply that he was using as a "solar equivalent"...if not, re-watch the first vid.

Lero,

I'm glad you disagree. You're right, but didn't JB say 20,000 uF which is 0.027F right? Anyhow, moot point.
I think we are missing something from the basic TS. I just can't put my finger on it, but the trafo clue has to be part of it.

Anyway, steack has to go on the BBQ now. Hopefully I can play tomorrow.


John K.

[nvisser]

John K
Go back to post 2124
I described there what I think the cap was for.

[John_K]

John K
Go back to post 2124
I described there what I think the cap was for.

Thanks Vissie,

I think my head is still fuzzy from the stomach bug.

I should wait until I get sharp again (if ever) until posting again.


John K.

[Matthew Jones]

I think we are missing something from the basic TS. I just can't put my finger on it, but the trafo clue has to be part of it.

Whats a Trafo?

High Power germanium transistors. Thats what we're missing.

Matt

[nvisser]

Trafo is short for transformer.
Was the transistors that they used on the scaler charger High Power germanium transistors?

[Matthew Jones]

Germanium PNP Top Hats.

I got about 20 of them coming to play with but the only place left to get them is eastern European countries. Most are Russian transistors.
You can find them on EBAY.
I am still not sure if they'll show up though. LOL If not its 40 dollers

Matt

[genessc]

Tesla switch Cont'd.

Hi John K, Good to see your postings here man. Been a bit since we talked huh. You noted the below...

<snip>
I do like Gene's idea with the 3 wire trafo, although I can't think of a reason why you could not use a solid state SSG variant in it's place.
<end snip>

I should elaborate on what I've been working at as its been me attempting to replicate bedinis solar charger in that vid he put out showing the output being 10amp pulses or there abouts from only 18volts at 3amps input.

A couple years ago I built what I call my dual asymetric 556 controller which is two 556's cap coupled and each timer is setup with two pots for analog adjustment of the ON time for each of the 4 slices that this custom controller was built to use as its Cycle. The controller is also made so I can swap out the timers caps thus changing the time range reachable which is independant for each "slice" of the 4 timers. Currently tho I'm using 1uF caps for all 4 x 555's. I use a 100k and 10k pot on each timer in series to adjust the On time so that I have a Rough and Fine adjustment via potentiometer.

I wired up only two of the timer outputs (the 2 and 4 timers) to control some MJL arrays. I have the T2 timer controlling a single mjl array which gates power to a SS SG (really the solar version of the SS, I'll call it the SC) as the oscillator that uses another MJL as its transistor. This oscillator uses a 6 strand of 20awg wire on a pittsfield coil form as its stator. 2 of the strands are used for the oscillator proper and the other 4 strands are each isolated and fed out thru their own 35amp 1000volt FWBR into a 450v 2400uF cap. (total of 4 x 2400uF caps being filled in parallel from the isolated strands off that SS SC). I adapted the SS SC to have a pot in one of the resistor placements that lets me seperately dial in what the SS frequency is thats being oscillated at. Thats just the T2 timer.

Then theres the T4 timer. This one has 4 arrays on it, 1 per 2400uF cap position and they are setup so that each cap is fired at once when the T4 timer fires and they are currently output into a single discharge point which is going into a 750cca truck battery thats iffy...

I figured this was prolly how JB was causing the 18v at 3A to fill up some caps for generating that 10amp charge pulse into the batteries... but I can't come near 10 amps with my discharge pulses... My input is about 18volts at 1.5-2amps using a DC regulated power supply. My discharges can be dialed in from discharging at almost no current and retaining ~90vdc-120vdc in the 2400uF caps to discharging upwards of 600-800mA of current at 20vdc (which ranges from charge to discharge from 22vdc to 16vdc). This is all dependant on how I configure the controllers timing.

Anyways I mention all that as you noted to just use the SS SC oscillators in place of the trasistor doing the Tesla switch switching and that wouldn't work. I did think about putting a SS SC in series to be gated on each section but I think that defeats the basic principle of the setup.

In my minds eye, I understand the brandt/bedini version of the tesla switch to require that it ONLY switch the potentials of the batteries back and forth and that the Only load in either series path would be one of the transformer windings. The trafo would need to have two isolated 12volt windings, one used in either directional switching instance. If its a Center tapped trafo, you'd want to be able to seperate and isolate the two halves of that center tapped trafo so there is no sharing of the same strand between the two directions of current flow. The third wire would be the collector or secondary and would then be fed out thru a fwbr into a cap to see what sort of power is realizable. At that point the frequency and pulse length should be adjusted till one sees the batteries start to gain in charge and there is notable charge in the collector cap behind the secondaries fwbr.

Anyways, this is the idea I have in mind for my modification of my custom controller as I'll update T2 to use 4 arrays like T4 and then I can do the full 6 battery TS that should give me 24volts of potential in either direction and I have a 800VA trafo with 4 x 12volt windings and 2 x 120volt windings that I can wire for 24volts on the LV side as primary and then I can parallel or series the 120volt side as needed to see what I can get out of it.

I have an idea of how to fit the SS SC into the picture but it doesn't fit in before what I've laid out above is assembled and working.

All that said, putting the SS SG or SC in series might actually do something good, It just hadn't occured to me in that configuration to use it there.

Ultimately what if we had like 11 batteries in each bank, all 12volts. I need 8 transistor arrays to make a 6 battery version work, each additional pair of batteries would require 2 more transistors per paired set. So with 22 batteries total I think that would put me at 24 total transistor arrays, but then I'd be switching at 120volts direct voltage potential from each battery stack when put in series...

Hopefully will be able to get the TS adaptation going here soon. Take it easy John K.
Gene

[genessc]

SS SG in TS John K.

Doh, I just had it snap correctly in my noggin what you meant by using the SS SG in place of the 3 wire trafo.

You could maybe actually set up two seperate SS SG's and use the transistors for each series pulse discharge to gate into an isolated SS SG which would output to a cap (or multiple caps). This would actually remove the need for the conventional trafo and you just have one SS SG being activated on each leg of the series discharge path.

Perhaps then the caps being charged by the SS SG/SC could be controlled by the T1 and T3 timers so that they are discharging in the OFF time of the TS?

Sorry man, took a few seconds to paint the right pic in my head. I'll keep that in mind if the 800va doesn't do much...

Thanks for the idea!
Gene

[John_K]

D-TS &amp; SS SG Hybrid

Doh, I just had it snap correctly in my noggin what you meant by using the SS SG in place of the 3 wire trafo.

You could maybe actually set up two seperate SS SG's and use the transistors for each series pulse discharge to gate into an isolated SS SG which would output to a cap (or multiple caps). This would actually remove the need for the conventional trafo and you just have one SS SG being activated on each leg of the series discharge path.

Perhaps then the caps being charged by the SS SG/SC could be controlled by the T1 and T3 timers so that they are discharging in the OFF time of the TS?

Sorry man, took a few seconds to paint the right pic in my head. I'll keep that in mind if the 800va doesn't do much...

Thanks for the idea!
Gene

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the detailed description of your setup 2 posts ago. You kind of lost me in the details but I get the concept of what you're trying to do.

You also get what my idea was. I have a love/hate relationship with 555s. I keep blowing them so now I'm working with a PIC, which is much easier to adjust the timing "on the fly".

I'll take on your suggestion of dual SS SGs as the load for the TS. This would eliminate the need for a separate FWBR to run the SS SG. In my head they could share the same coil and cap as only one SS SG would be on at a time.

Alternatively, (I think this is a better idea) have two totally isolated SS SGs, each with their own cap which would use Bedini's inverted cap pulser circuit to dump the cap into either the 24V series bank or the 12V parallel bank. I'm not sure which would work best though until tested on the bench.

It would work something like this:
1. Setup the 24V series bank
2. Setup the 12V parallel bank
3. Connect the SS SG between the bottom negatives (or positives Matt)
4. Pulse SS SG until cap is charged (at 2Hz)
5. Disconnect the SS SG
6. Dump the cap into chosen bank (TBD)
7. Switch sides and repeat

I'll try this setup first by just getting one side to work and then add the vacuum advance later (just kidding!).

Hypothetically, the only losses would be in the caps and the tranny junctions. (My circuit doesn't use diodes in the TS) Tuning the SS SGs and choosing the correct sized cap will be a challenge. JB seems to love running each side of the the TS at 2Hz, so I'll use that as a starting point.

That should keep me busy for a while.

@Matt, this should be easy enough to use relays for switching the cap dumps as well. I've done this with cap pulsers before and it works well.


John K.

[Matthew Jones]

3. Connect the SS SG between the bottom negatives (or positives Matt)

I have just watching common loads run on the TS. Ones that know how much they recover. Running on the hot side has gained 4% over 3 types of loads. Just a slight improvement but every bit helps. Why I don't know.
One thing I have noticed the loss from CEMF in the motor I test with, is lower.

I suspect though to big of a load on the batts and I'll pay more. I'll try that soon and see.

@Matt, this should be easy enough to use relays for switching the cap dumps as well. I've done this with cap pulsers before and it works well.

Yep, and get the most for your money.

Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

The cleaned up drawing.

I deleted the drawing and will repost a clean updated version.

Sorry,

Bit's

Team, here is the updated drawing to drive relay's. I have not shown the relays connected to the actual Batts as you can use this in any manner you see fit. Sorry for the delay. I have been extremily busy with developing programming.