Use for the Tesla Switch

[Karl_Palsness]

Tesla Designing Method

Hay Jeff,

Just wanted to say I love this latest version of the Pulsinator III ! Great work...I love the way you float the Q2 to Q4 and charge and discharge the par of caps. Truly a Tesla way/design of playing with Impedance of the caps and the coil. This idea has so many important applications that it makes my head spin.

Keep up the great work,

Karl

[John_K]

First round of testing of the PIII

Hey Jeff & Vissie,

I got a fair bit of testing done this afternoon. I was able to build stage one and dump the output of the caps to a second battery. It worked great, the caps would charge in series to 27V and then the sense would switch off the stage 1 oscillator and dump the caps into the battery with a bang. So far, so good.

I went on to build the second stage and ran into trouble. With the circuit you posted you'll notice that when Q1 is off and Q2 is on, Coil1 and Coil2 are in series. There is also a closed loop back to the positive of Batt1, with the caps 1 & 2 in parallel. This causes cap 1 & 2 to drain very quickly and caps 3 & 4 do not charge well at all.

To get around this I placed transistors between Batt1 positive and the top of Coil1, likewise with the second and third stages (see attached schematic, the single caps are actually ser/par caps as per your schematic butI'm sure you'll get the idea. Obviously the extra transistors are driven by optos off the PIC, but I didn't draw them in). I also changed the code so the extra transistor would switch on to connect the coil and then switch off when the cap was charged.

I also found that this will not work with a multi-strand coil, I had to use 2 separate coils otherwise the coils would fight each other due to the mutual inductance between the windings. However Jeff if you want to steal a strand from each of the coils on your 10-coiler, this would not be a problem

Anyhow, this got rid of the loop and the second stage worked as expected, however the first stage caps run out of juice before the second stage caps charge up enough. The highest I can get the second stage caps is ~21V. I think I either have leaky caps or there are some voltage drops I need to eliminate as when the second stage is waiting for the first stage to charge back up the caps drop a couple of volts.

I also found that if I loop the "pulsout" command 250 times with a shorter pulse duration, the caps seem to charge faster. The draw current on Batt1 I measured at 70mA. Here's the code that I'm using for now:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
setfreq m8

let adcsetup = %0000000000000011

pulse_Q2:
high B.0
readadc 0,b0
if b0 > 127 then pulse_Q4
for b3=1 to 250
pulsout D.0,25
next b3
goto pulse_Q2

pulse_Q4:
low B.0
high B.1
readadc 1,b1
if b1 > 127 then pulse_Q7
for b4=1 to 250
pulsout D.2,25
next b4
readadc 0, b2
if b2 < 70 then pulse_Q2
goto pulse_Q4

pulse_Q7:
low B.1
;for b4=1 to 250
;pulsout B.2, 100
;next b4

;goto pulse_Q1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the above code, B.0 is Q1, D.0 is Q2, B.1 is Q3 and D.2 is Q4.

Whilst stage 2 caps are charging I am also sensing the voltage on the stage 1 caps. If the stage 1 caps fall below 15V then I stop charging the stage 2 caps and top up the stage 1 caps.

So, a mixed day on the bench but still made some progress. I'll look forward to your thoughts and ideas.


John K.

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hey Jeff & Vissie,

I got a fair bit of testing done this afternoon. I was able to build stage one and dump the output of the caps to a second battery. It worked great, the caps would charge in series to 27V and then the sense would switch off the stage 1 oscillator and dump the caps into the battery with a bang. So far, so good.

I went on to build the second stage and ran into trouble. With the circuit you posted you'll notice that when Q1 is off and Q2 is on, Coil1 and Coil2 are in series. There is also a closed loop back to the positive of Batt1, with the caps 1 & 2 in parallel. This causes cap 1 & 2 to drain very quickly and caps 3 & 4 do not charge well at all.

To get around this I placed transistors between Batt1 positive and the top of Coil1, likewise with the second and third stages (see attached schematic, the single caps are actually ser/par caps as per your schematic butI'm sure you'll get the idea. Obviously the extra transistors are driven by optos off the PIC, but I didn't draw them in). I also changed the code so the extra transistor would switch on to connect the coil and then switch off when the cap was charged.

I also found that this will not work with a multi-strand coil, I had to use 2 separate coils otherwise the coils would fight each other due to the mutual inductance between the windings. However Jeff if you want to steal a strand from each of the coils on your 10-coiler, this would not be a problem

Anyhow, this got rid of the loop and the second stage worked as expected, however the first stage caps run out of juice before the second stage caps charge up enough. The highest I can get the second stage caps is ~21V. I think I either have leaky caps or there are some voltage drops I need to eliminate as when the second stage is waiting for the first stage to charge back up the caps drop a couple of volts.

I also found that if I loop the "pulsout" command 250 times with a shorter pulse duration, the caps seem to charge faster. The draw current on Batt1 I measured at 70mA. Here's the code that I'm using for now:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
setfreq m8

let adcsetup = %0000000000000011

pulse_Q2:
high B.0
readadc 0,b0
if b0 > 127 then pulse_Q4
for b3=1 to 250
pulsout D.0,25
next b3
goto pulse_Q2

pulse_Q4:
low B.0
high B.1
readadc 1,b1
if b1 > 127 then pulse_Q7
for b4=1 to 250
pulsout D.2,25
next b4
readadc 0, b2
if b2 < 70 then pulse_Q2
goto pulse_Q4

pulse_Q7:
low B.1
;for b4=1 to 250
;pulsout B.2, 100
;next b4

;goto pulse_Q1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the above code, B.0 is Q1, D.0 is Q2, B.1 is Q3 and D.2 is Q4.

Whilst stage 2 caps are charging I am also sensing the voltage on the stage 1 caps. If the stage 1 caps fall below 15V then I stop charging the stage 2 caps and top up the stage 1 caps.

So, a mixed day on the bench but still made some progress. I'll look forward to your thoughts and ideas.


John K.

Thanks for the feedback John. Lot to digest here. I'll have a good look at this tonight.

Also take a look at this arrangment (again). Maybe this will prevent the loops.

Jeff

[nvisser]

Why not rather use a pnp transistor on the high side of each coil that switch the same time as the low side, like JB's sequential bipolar switch?

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Why not rather use a pnp transistor on the high side of each coil that switch the same time as the low side, like JB's sequential bipolar switch?

Vissie, John, take another look at the drawing as I reposted it. Think this will work?

Jeff

[papir]

TS

Welcome!
I'm very lucky to have found this forum, really good quality, a lot of info I got after reading the 110 pages.
We've been trying to build a TS, so far unsuccessfully.
I do not understand the language accurately and in a lot of important video and pdf no longer available, but so far the comments I made on the basis of a compilation:

4 x 80Ah battery
Office of the switch-drive 3pcs MJL21194 transformer control, it is a separate unit on each side
Sites linking the relays

I tried 50-900Hz kapcsoltatni between the transistors, the pages in between 5min-1s, but the battery run down all settings to the load / 20-100W bulb / properly, the battery level is lower after all the connections.
Not doing something well, or did not understand it properly.
For now I have not seen a difference in the DC power and charging of the different frequencies of pulsation, it is not clear that 50-50% or clear signal should be driven by narrow pulses.
So full of chaos .. I need a little help from the more experienced and more knowledgeable colleagues, I probably do not understand the point.

paper

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Revised &quot;Pulsinator III&quot;

Hi Gang, here is a revised "Pulsinator III" drawing. Thanks to the help of Vissie, John K. and Karl, I think we have a nice start to multi-functional board. The applications are endless!

Thanks.

Jeff

[John_K]

Hi Gang, here is a revised "Pulsinator III" drawing. Thanks to the help of Vissie, John K. and Karl, I think we have a nice start to multi-functional board. The applications are endless!

Thanks.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks! Was Coil1 omitted on purpose? Without it Cap & Cap2 will charge to battery voltage.


John K.

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks! Was Coil1 omitted on purpose? Without it Cap & Cap2 will charge to battery voltage.


John K.

Hey John, Kind of a new twist if you will. Yes batt voltage straight away into the first cap bank, then the second and third bank to oscillate. I wasn't able to catch you on Skype this AM to explain.

[John_K]

Hey John, Kind of a new twist if you will. Yes batt voltage straight away into the first cap bank, then the second and third bank to oscillate. I wasn't able to catch you on Skype this AM to explain.

Hey Jeff,

Sorry mate, slept in this morning. I was up early watching my "other" hobby - Formula 1 (go Webber!)

Interesting twist! As we discussed, series/parallel cap pulser pulser likes an input voltage of about 55V. There's a few ways to do this and I'm still looking at some of these options.

I'll hopefully catch up with you tomorrow AM for a chat.


John K.

[StevanC]

Anyone tried increasing frequencies on the pic/mcu so far?

Just checking
Stevan C.

[mandrilo]

Hi folks,

just one question: I've been looking at the TS schematics and I found out electrolytic capacitors (before FWBR AC legs) are sometimes connected with minus pole toward FWBR, sometimes vice versa.

See http://mandrilo.org/data/knjige/elektro/Mueller.pdf (page 10 and page 15).

So I'm asking what is the right direction of the electrolytic capacitors, or is it of no importance?


BTW, after 4 months I finally managed to assemble working 4 lead acid battery (car battery 12V/44Ah) TS switch. Switches are based on IRFB4110 fets with FOD3180 drivers each driven by separate flyback type voltage source and with good oldie PIC16F84A as master controller. I'll post detail schematics and test results when finished.

[nvisser]

Hi Mandrilo
If you use the 2 positives for your load , the 1000uf caps will connect with their negatives to the battery terminals and the positive side of the caps to the bridge and the other way round if you use the negatives.
Do you have any results on your mosfet driven Tesla switch and maybe schematics in advance?
Regards
Vissie

[lamare]

Hi all,

I just posted some interesting info over here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post123442
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...cation-72.html

Mark McKay posted some information on the earlier, succesfull, Gray engines which I think is very important also for understanding the Tesla switch:

There is meaningful observation documented where the non-classical output was a simple, but huge, DC spike that recharged the storage capacitor(s) and was also directed towards the storage batteries. The batteries were destroyed by this input -BUT they could not be eleminated from the circuit. Their circuit parameters were a requirment for non-classical operation. The motor could never run "closed loop" becasue the energy that was not extracted in the form of torque couldn't be effectively stored. They only needed a 60A alternator to top off the batteries from a functional standpoint. But if the motor ran for more than 30-60 minutes the batteries were toasted. If the motor was ran longer than this they exploded from hydrogen outgassing. Today this challenge might be solved with some huge carbon foam capacitors and sophiscated switch-mode power supply circuits.

So, according to Mark, the batteries are essential for "non-classic operation" and that this is a documented observation. To me, this is one of the most important clues I have read ever since I started studying Grays stuff. And since this comes from McKay, one of the most knowledgeable persons on the history of Grays stuff, I have no doubt this is accurate. And beside that, John Bedini has also stated the importance of batteries in his systems. "It's in the batteries!", is what I recall hearing him say on one of his video's.

Just like I wondered what capacitor 38 in Grays circuit is for, I also wondered why there are capacitors in the lines to the diode bridge in the most original working Tesla switch schematic I know of, the one on page 8 here:

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/MUELLER_EXPER...SLA_BEDINI.pdf

As you can see, this one powers an inductive load, a motor, while being fed trough electrolytic capacitors in the line to the rectifier bridge.

It appears that devices containing metal plates with a water solution in between them, be it a battery, an electrolytic capacitor or a WFC, in combination with an inductor are essential for obtaining excess energy.

As I posted here, according to the Maxwell equations, a magnetic field can not only be caused by a current, but also by a changing electric field:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post123467
Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ampère's law with Maxwell's correction states that magnetic fields can be generated in two ways: by electrical current (this was the original "Ampère's law") and by changing electric fields (this was "Maxwell's correction").

Maxwell's correction to Ampère's law is particularly important: It means that a changing magnetic field creates an electric field, and a changing electric field creates a magnetic field. Therefore, these equations allow self-sustaining "electromagnetic waves" to travel through empty space (see electromagnetic wave equation).

This suggests it is very likelly possible to create a magnetic field inside a coil using only a changing electric field, without having to provide any current to the coil in order to get the magnetic field.

Interestingly, Bedini uses the same principle the other way around. He energizes a coil trough a transistor and then suddenly switches the transistor off, so no current can flow trough the transistor anymore. He redirects the sharp rising voltage at the coil terminal trough a diode to a charging battery. And then you get a DC spike, exactly because the ion based current inside the battery takes some time to react.

So, it appears that with electrolytic capacitors, you get a short delay between the moment a field, a voltage, is applied to it and the moment a current starts flowing. And it appears this effect can be used to cause a magnetic field to build up inside a coil, without providing current to it, while the energy that has been build up in the coil can be harnassed for free.

Given that Gray's system includes a capacitor 38 and his schematic supposedly originate with Tesla, and Marvin Cole could not get this system to work without batteries, one can speculate that the plate distance of the electrolytic capacitors/batteries used is an important parameter for the effects we are after. And therefore it seems likely that old school electrolytic capacitors, basically aluminum plates in an electrolyte solution, offer the best results.

For more on how to make old school electrolytic capacitors as well as rectifiers, see: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post123445

[StevanC]

Excelent!
:thumbsub:

In accord to this, (for what it's worth):
During his stay in Colorado springs, Dr. Tesla noted in his diary/log:

He made capacitors for his experimental transformer using 2nd hand mineral water bottles and large metal vessels. The acttual electrodes where salt water, and the dielectric was the glass of the bottles alone.

To be able to determine the capacity of such a capacitor he need to know the exact surface of each bottle. He amused himself sitting in the resort near by, calculating the area "from the head", while few guests, reportedly math professors, did it "on paper".

Needles to say, he outperformed them in both time and decimal accuracy...

POINT IS:

Again water as electrolyte (salt? KoH? NaOH? NaCl?) and glass (he approximated about 30000V rupture capacity i think?) as insulation.

QUESTION
did he had any OU there?

Stevan C.