Use for the Tesla Switch

[hherby]

I was unable to find a description/definition in your referenced link to "low capacitance coupling Transformer types"

I stand corrected. I see what you are referring to under the Pulsed Transformers section excerpt shown below

Transformer types - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pulse transformers

A pulse transformer is a transformer that is optimised for transmitting rectangular electrical pulses (that is, pulses with fast rise and fall times and a relatively constant amplitude). Small versions called signal types are used in digital logic and telecommunications circuits, often for matching logic drivers to transmission lines. Medium-sized power versions are used in power-control circuits such as camera flash controllers. Larger power versions are used in the electrical power distribution industry to interface low-voltage control circuitry to the high-voltage gates of power semiconductors. Special high voltage pulse transformers are also used to generate high power pulses for radar, particle accelerators, or other high energy pulsed power applications.

To minimise distortion of the pulse shape, a pulse transformer needs to have low values of leakage inductance and distributed capacitance, and a high open-circuit inductance. In power-type pulse transformers, a low coupling capacitance (between the primary and secondary) is important to protect the circuitry on the primary side from high-powered transients created by the load. For the same reason, high insulation resistance and high breakdown voltage are required. A good transient response is necessary to maintain the rectangular pulse shape at the secondary, because a pulse with slow edges would create switching losses in the power semiconductors.

The product of the peak pulse voltage and the duration of the pulse (or more accurately, the voltage-time integral) is often used to characterise pulse transformers. Generally speaking, the larger this product, the larger and more expensive the transformer.

Pulse transformers by definition have a duty cycle of less than 0.5, whatever energy stored in the coil during the pulse must be "dumped" out before the pulse is fired again.

Regards,
Alex

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks for the comment John. However, I only have one further comment at this stage. This is regarding low capacitor coupling for the ac output from a working TS.

The output should be a pulse transformer, most of these are designed for specific applications. Experimenters tend to use whats under the bench. This sets the stage for a very dangerous scenario. Without some coupling the transformer will be coupled directly to the terminals of the battery, regardless of them being negative. As the Switch is oscillating back and forth one terminal will always be positive with regards to the other terminal. When the pulsing is operational charging should take place. This will involve gassing within the battery. Any unwanted live BEMF or transient spark could cause the battery to ignite internally and explode. Anyone in the close vicinity of this explosion is likely to suffer acid burns, even loss of sight.

This is a safety warning to all those thinking of following incorrect advice to not decouple your transformers with capacitors or series chokes and capacitors. BE WARNED.

Maybe I shall resurrect my Switch and put it on youtube - working. I'll have to think long and hard about that after today events.

Regards

Thats funny at best. I pulled huge loads off of mine, and never even seen a bubble come out of the fluid. And I have looked.

I would like to see yours as well. Lets see what a PRO can do. A real Engineer. LOL

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks for the schem. Excuse my limited electronics knowledge. I don't quite understand how this circuit works. The two caps, 3 batteries and zener are all in series. So we have 36v across the batteries. At what voltage of the charge cap does the zener start to conduct? Once the zener does conduct, I assume the cap across the SSR input charges until the SSR turn-on threshold is reached and will stay open until the voltage in the cap across the SSR input drops below the turn-off threshold?

The batteries are in there because when I made the switch I used a 36 volt system. It will work the same no matter the voltage. The zener can be any set voltage as well, just depend on when you wanna dump. In that schematic the cap voltage went to 74 volt, activated the relay and dumped.

The cap across the SSR makes sure it shuts off. If you don't use it, it will not completely shut off.

Everything else you got right.

At first I will drive the switching with JB's SG3524 PWM circuit posted earlier in the thread. Later I will switch to PICAXE or AVR micro so I can use the ADC's to check voltages and other output pins to control bank switching relays. I will also be using the cap dump circuit in other projects that do not use any kind of intelligent switching so the cap dumps solely when the cap voltage reaches a preset value like 24v to dump into a 12v battery.

I would just start with a pic. You get more control over your system right away

Would a 1N4007 be sufficient to protect the relay or do I need something beefier like a IN5408 or higher?

I use an MUR 420 series

Excellent advice. I didn't even consider having to deal with inrush currents. I really appreciate the heads up.
Thanks Matt.

No Problem. And don't worry yourself about this Transformer on Negative thing. People show up like this all the time and without knowing anything start trying to put fear in everyone or try to make everyone look insignificant compared to themselves. It usually happens when something good shows up. All of a sudden another expert comes along to ward off any replication or steer the conversion away from whats important.
I think I gave you just about every warning I could think of.
You won't see transients in the current if you do not have off time, and you will never saturate your core if everything is wired right. AC prevents the saturation and also limits BEMF no less than about 6% production if not lower.

Cheers Brother.
Matt

[Mario]

Hi Matt and all,

first of all I'd like to say that your simple circuit looks awesome. I was in the beginning of this thread and made a T-switch based on the basic circuit and I tried mechanic relais, rotary switching and then also all solid state switching with optos and transistors. They all worked very well, but the batteries allways dropped over time, they were 7Ah gel-cells which probably are not ideal for this.
Then I went on to other projects, but what you are telling sounds very promising to say the least, so I'll try and replicate that circuit of yours.
A few questions though if you don't mind.
Unless I'm missing something the lower two batts never get put in parallel like the original circuit, do they still hold their charge? If yes is this like the 3 battery switch or do you have to periodically rotate them?
Is there an ideal output draw relationship with regards to the switch battery' s capacity (C20 rate)? I mean let's say I have four 230 Ah batteries in the switch. 230 Ah normally means around 150W draw at C20, how much should I squeeze off the output, as much as possible without melting the transformer?
Also what are you switching with? I'm planning on using optos driving transistors or mosfets. I have four 9 Ah motorcycle batts that I'm restoring with 24V cap pulsing, they were new before I did HV cap pulsing experiments on them, don't do that!! I thought they completely died but seem to slowly come back...

thanks!

Mario

[ewizard]

I just wanted to update on my schematic that I posted above.

I have been charging a separate bank batteries now for the last 5 days. I have been watching the voltages in my batteries. 3 times now I have charged the other bank of batteries as full as they'll get in there current rather poor state and all 3 times my batteries in the TS have growth in overall voltage.

Its not much. In fact usually after an 8 hour run at what ever frequency, the average growth is about .05 each time per battery, but its energy in the BLACK not the RED.

So I am pretty tickled right. If I didn't have to go to work this morning I would start opening the beers. but...

I have another computer (Parallax Propeller) that I am trying to learn the code for. It has alot of capability as far Data logging and the like. So I am trying to work out way to start collecting the overall performance of everything so that I can show the total gain in energy. Right now its kinda hard because I am pulsing the charge batteries some times and just regular charging at other times.
So I got to work all that out and I'll get back with ya guys.


Matt

Great to hear of your success with this! I've been following other things so intensely I hadn't checked in here for a while. Just a quick thought here on controllers that may be similar to the Parallax Propeller (I think) as I recently found out about the Texas Instruments 'LaunchPad' MPS430 microcontroller kit that they offer for an incredible $4.30 and that includes USB cable and extra chip. So if you are on a budget and thinking about needing one for the TS project this may help. I don't think it's quite as fast as the Parallax but for the price it's certainly attractive.

A little more info here: TI MSP430 LaunchPad Development Platform for $4.30 - Hacked Gadgets - DIY Tech Blog

[Matthew Jones]

@Ewizard
Thanks thats a nice find.

A few questions though if you don't mind.
Unless I'm missing something the lower two batts never get put in parallel like the original circuit, do they still hold their charge? If yes is this like the 3 battery switch or do you have to periodically rotate them?

What happens is you hit an equilibrium point. The top batteries charge up and the bottom discharge but every time they go in to a serial mode power spills over the bottoms. Now it doesn't completely compensate but it goes for a real long time. I did post another drawing of system that would switch the batteries out. You'll have to use 6 batts though. Heres the links.
Simple Switch schematic
Power Delivery Main Power Delivery
Power Delivery Main Power Control System

For the control system you'll need an extra winding in your transformer to power in all. Course there are alot of option for lowering the power consumption on it. Its drawn to be simple and easy to understand, you could get way more complicated and save yourself alot.

Is there an ideal output draw relationship with regards to the switch battery' s capacity (C20 rate)? I mean let's say I have four 230 Ah batteries in the switch. 230 Ah normally means around 150W draw at C20, how much should I squeeze off the output, as much as possible without melting the transformer?

I run 115 amp hour batts. I can pull a 500 watt load pretty easy with an inverter. But I like to charge a 4 more batteries of the same size a bunch of times, via a cap dump. I also have a rather large solid state monopole that I getting ready to fire up. I am going to use the TS to power it and use oscillator to build batteries from scratch.

Also what are you switching with? I'm planning on using optos driving transistors or mosfets. I have four 9 Ah motorcycle batts that I'm restoring with 24V cap pulsing, they were new before I did HV cap pulsing experiments on them, don't do that!! I thought they completely died but seem to slowly come back...
thanks!
Mario

Get you one of those Texas Instrument things. They'll do the trick. I use a Stamp chip or a Propeller from Parallax. But anything A PIC, ect will work. Gives you the best control as well.

With those small batteries you can use a Trilfiliar coil of wire. Thats what I start with and 4x 4.5 amp hour batts.
Just spin up some 20 awg about 200 turns should do ya.

Good luck, If you need anything let me know.

Matt

[ourbobby]

Rob,

Can you share the specs or part number of the pulse transformer?

Since we're all buddies now, we'd love to see what you've got!


John K.

Hi there John, these will my final words on the TS. hopefully they will shed some light on the topic for those struggling with the theory.

First, Pulse transformers are generally design specific. Though often high silica thin steel lamination transformer can work. These could be hard to find and expensive to buy.

Secondly, I do not class everyone as a buddy. However, I do offer the follow as my insight to the simple operation of a TS. This is my approach and my expertise. My way of solving problems, going to the root - fundamentals. Something I have learned over the years.

When a student in the 60’s studying electronics, my tutor make the comment that V=I when explaining Ohm’s Law. It has always been in the forefront of my mind when dealing with electronics. I have made this observation in previous posts. The real significance of this did not hit me until we were studying Tuned Circuits. What he was really saying was V = I x R = 0. That is, a fundamental concept in tuned circuits is for zero resistance we require Max Q and Min Z.

This concept is imperative for the understanding of the resolution of the TS. Also, as we are dealing with inductive circuits the primary concern is to understand the importance of the current, voltage and resistance curves when plotted. That is, the current leads the voltage and the resistance follows the voltage. All basic stuff, you might say. Well that is what the TS is, Basic stuff. The key is in the implementation.

Hold that theory above for a moment. I quickly move on to say the Tesla Magnifying Transmitter. The key to understanding the impact of the TMT is exactly the theory above. We take this theory for granted now, but, back then this was evolutionary! Tesla then collected this current and retransmitted this across his now famous Leyden Jars. Oscillating out at “Miraculous High requencies”. It is par for the course that older people like myself do in some way have a better grasp of the use of discrete componentry. We lived inside boxes filled with valves, wires going everywhere, resistors, capacitors and the occasional electric shock. These days, electronics is extremely streamlined, neat and tidy. Most of the procedures now confined to ic’s.

So, when it comes to understanding something as basic as the TS, what is lacking, to my mind, is some of the understanding of the basic principles and how they can be manipulated and extended. This is what happens with the Tesla Switch. V = I.

This is why, I manufactured a rotary switch to alternate the batteries – zero switch resistance. All that alternating the batteries will do is to run them down eventually. You, I think have found this out. In some manner, we have to do this to see the process working. It is just a slow neutralising effect. V = I x R = (say) 0.1. (Internal battery resistance)

We need then some way to put power back into the batteries. And there is only one time frame when this is really suitable. How a person does this is proprietary information. Intellectual property you might say. Also, there are quite a few ways this can be achieved.

So without destroying the entertainment and sense of achievement that comes with “Discovery”. We need to understand that V = I. That we cannot supplement the charging oscillation whilst R has a value X ( all batteries have a low resistance, as they sulfate this resistance increases), we need to understand the I-V-R curves for an inductive circuit. We need to find the time during the cycling to use this information to its maximum.

Most importantly of all, it has to be recognised that the TS is a “Tuned Circuit”. And, it can be dangerous. If you approach the TS as a cavity oscillator you tred the path towards cold fusion reactions within the batteries. TRED YOUR OWN PATH.

Easy!! I’ll get out of you hair now, good luck with it.

Rob

[Turion]

Unlike many of you, I have met Matt, in person. He went out of his way at the last conference in Idaho to drive from the resort BACK to the airport and pick me up, and he gave me a ride back to the airport at the conclusion of the conference.
I have spoken to Matt, in person, on the phone, in e-mails and here in the forums. He has been more help to me than I could possibly repay. I can tell you without a doubt that he is for real. In fact, at least once that I can recall Matt told me that I needed to get a better understanding of what I was doing because he was afraid I'd blow myself up if I continued with my experimenting WITHOUT understanding some of the things that were in play. I haven't forgotten that Matt! LOL So if Matt says something is safe, I for one trust his judgement.

There are safety precautions ALL of us should take when working with charging batteries, and if you aren't taking them, then shame on you. But I seriously DOUBT that Matt would recommend anything he thought was unsafe. Give me a break!

David Bowling

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I am at the airport with a couple of hours to waste, so I might as well waste them on you! I can see why you have trouble working things out - like a simple TS. You are often too incoherent. What does this all mean?

If I am telling other members on this thread how to think in terms of constructing a TS, why would you want to call me an agent of misinformation. If you had any sense, which for me, having to try and work out your ramblings - who is the guy in the next cubicle, (Is this some USA insider joke?) is problematic, you would see how to construct the TS. But, you are not too clever. You try to make yourself look clever by constantly replying to others posts.

You are the super man of the failed Tesla Switch. Unlike you, I am a person who does not have to prove himself. And, the more someone annoys me, the more I have a habit of getting even with them. Teach them a lesson. Often times in a subtle fashion so that others see the joke except the victim.

Mr BOOM. Would that refer to your mouth? Or would it refer to your poor suffering neighbours. I am sure that if you are attacking me because of your insecurities, you must be offending other people too. A Leopard doesn't change its spots.

You had better hurry up and pay attention to my post to John K. The information is based on fact. Unlike yourself, I am not in the habit of trying to impress people. If I state something, then it is a truth.

So, if you hurry up, and try and read my post without choking and suffering some sort of humiliation, thinking that others might know you have read it, you might actually work out where you have gone wrong.

Remember, the key to understanding is all in the timing, although I should imaging that your circuit is so overloaded with solid state components, that your pulse won't see the light of day until its too late.

This last sentence is intended for those working through my approach to the TS. Hope it helps understand where Mr BOOM BOOM has got it all wrong.

Also, just to demonstrate have naive you have been in all this, just to pass the time of day while I wait for the boarding call, did you really think that John Bedini would give out HIS secret for the TS? He might give a circuit, just as Patrick Kelly was given a circuit by Electrodyne, but, did you really think that was the end of it? Really Mr BOOM BOOM. Are you really that naive?

Anyone with the reputation you are trying to cultivate on this thread with your expertise, should have realised pretty quickly that there was something missing. So when someone comes along and tell you where to look, you are insulted. You show me no respect, call me a liar and attempt to mock me.

It is lucky that the majority of members on this thread will see straight through your gambit. You only want me to give you the specific details because you are incapable of working them out. How long have you been working on this? 1 year? 2 years? and still the same old tired circuits rewritten. No new information. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
It is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is you Mr BOOM BOOM. You will never realise this in fact, that I have given you specific details. You will never work out where to look.

I am in a happy mood today off to Madrid, then Barcelona where my daughter is working as an architect. Then down to the Costa del Sol. Then it into some conferencing regarding the fuel cell engine and hydrogen generator I am developing for electric cars. Yes, I suppose you will now request that I blab this all over the internet for your benefit. I tell you this to irritate you. There is plenty more to come. Trust me. You are a cyber bully in sheeps clothing. The manner with which you have attempted to harass me demands that I request that you be thrown off this forum. You deserve to be Mr BOOM BOOM. If were you, I would learn to keep your mouth shut.

Now to have a good day, why don't you try and be nice to your neighbour, perhaps try being nice to a stranger. Don't kick the dog, try buying your wife some flowers and smile at the same time. All this will help to make you a more easier person to deal with. Oh and, remember, just because you are on the internet does not mean you are anonymous or cannot be pursued legally for harassment. It is very simple to track people down, especially someone as famous as Mr BOOM BOOM!! Also, learn some respect. Its amazing how respect opens doors!

Goodbye

I don't know what you are on about, but for the last year John Koorn and myself have teamed up on this Tesla Switch. If you have read the plethora of posts this thread has to offer, many different variants have been designed and tested. This is not exactly as the TS posted from John B. in 1984, but it is pretty close. We have worked the switching out so we can effectively charge four batteries on their own and are still showing progress on being able to run a load whilst doing this. We have successfully run a 30W load over 24 hrs to have the batts return to .1 volt of their original value. I endorse Matt’s comments. He would not say anything unless there was truths associated with it.
Bit’s

[Mario]

I am at the airport with a couple of hours to waste, so I might as well waste them on you! I can see why you have trouble working things out - like a simple TS. You are often too incoherent. What does this all mean?

If I am telling other members on this thread how to think in terms of constructing a TS, why would you want to call me an agent of misinformation. If you had any sense, which for me, having to try and work out your ramblings - who is the guy in the next cubicle, (Is this some USA insider joke?) is problematic, you would see how to construct the TS. But, you are not too clever. You try to make yourself look clever by constantly replying to others posts.

You are the super man of the failed Tesla Switch. Unlike you, I am a person who does not have to prove himself. And, the more someone annoys me, the more I have a habit of getting even with them. Teach them a lesson. Often times in a subtle fashion so that others see the joke except the victim.

Mr BOOM. Would that refer to your mouth? Or would it refer to your poor suffering neighbours. I am sure that if you are attacking me because of your insecurities, you must be offending other people too. A Leopard doesn't change its spots.

You had better hurry up and pay attention to my post to John K. The information is based on fact. Unlike yourself, I am not in the habit of trying to impress people. If I state something, then it is a truth.

So, if you hurry up, and try and read my post without choking and suffering some sort of humiliation, thinking that others might know you have read it, you might actually work out where you have gone wrong.

Remember, the key to understanding is all in the timing, although I should imaging that your circuit is so overloaded with solid state components, that your pulse won't see the light of day until its too late.

This last sentence is intended for those working through my approach to the TS. Hope it helps understand where Mr BOOM BOOM has got it all wrong.

Also, just to demonstrate have naive you have been in all this, just to pass the time of day while I wait for the boarding call, did you really think that John Bedini would give out HIS secret for the TS? He might give a circuit, just as Patrick Kelly was given a circuit by Electrodyne, but, did you really think that was the end of it? Really Mr BOOM BOOM. Are you really that naive?

Anyone with the reputation you are trying to cultivate on this thread with your expertise, should have realised pretty quickly that there was something missing. So when someone comes along and tell you where to look, you are insulted. You show me no respect, call me a liar and attempt to mock me.

It is lucky that the majority of members on this thread will see straight through your gambit. You only want me to give you the specific details because you are incapable of working them out. How long have you been working on this? 1 year? 2 years? and still the same old tired circuits rewritten. No new information. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
It is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is you Mr BOOM BOOM. You will never realise this in fact, that I have given you specific details. You will never work out where to look.

I am in a happy mood today off to Madrid, then Barcelona where my daughter is working as an architect. Then down to the Costa del Sol. Then it into some conferencing regarding the fuel cell engine and hydrogen generator I am developing for electric cars. Yes, I suppose you will now request that I blab this all over the internet for your benefit. I tell you this to irritate you. There is plenty more to come. Trust me. You are a cyber bully in sheeps clothing. The manner with which you have attempted to harass me demands that I request that you be thrown off this forum. You deserve to be Mr BOOM BOOM. If were you, I would learn to keep your mouth shut.

Now to have a good day, why don't you try and be nice to your neighbour, perhaps try being nice to a stranger. Don't kick the dog, try buying your wife some flowers and smile at the same time. All this will help to make you a more easier person to deal with. Oh and, remember, just because you are on the internet does not mean you are anonymous or cannot be pursued legally for harassment. It is very simple to track people down, especially someone as famous as Mr BOOM BOOM!! Also, learn some respect. Its amazing how respect opens doors!

Goodbye

Wow, don't forget to visit a shrink while you're there!

Mario

[Mario]

Hi Matt,

thanks a lot for your help, fortunately I have been working a long time on solid state SG's so the pulse transformer stuff shouldn't be a problem.

Putting a solid state oscillator running on the output cap seems like a very good idea, this way the cap stays at a more or less stable voltage, unlike pulsing it directly to charge batteries.

Now I just have to wait for my batts to be in good shape. I'll keep you posted

cheers,
Mario

[Matthew Jones]

Some more BLAH BLAH BLAH

All I did was ask you to bring proof when you make statement, very directly I might add. Only because the work I am doing directly contradicts you. No one has every even hinted that this was wrong in anyway. Just you.

You have no data or device of your own.

Your not the first one to come in here and say the very same thing. "Your failure", "Your Clown", "You know nothing", "Heres a better way".... ect....

My stuff works. It always has, they just get better and better.

So when you show something then your opinion will be more than welcome.
I don't speak for everyone, I am no ones leader, but I am sure most will agree.

Matthew Jones (A.K.A. MR BOOM!!!)

PS. I wonder if this guy is SeaMonkey. He kinda smells like one.

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Matt,
thanks a lot for your help, fortunately I have been working a long time on solid state SG's so the pulse transformer stuff shouldn't be a problem.
Putting a solid state oscillator running on the output cap seems like a very good idea, this way the cap stays at a more or less stable voltage, unlike pulsing it directly to charge batteries.
Now I just have to wait for my batts to be in good shape. I'll keep you posted
cheers,
Mario

Good to hear. Can't wait for some results.

Matt

[rosehillworks]

Matt.
Keep up the GOOD work

[Mario]

Hi Matt and all,

I got the setup working. I had and still have a few problems to solve. Of course what I want is low ohm hi power mosfets to do the main switching, but since they need to be controlled from one oscillator but also need to remain separated I basically used JB's cap dump setup. The oscillator drives two separation optos, (out of phase@50% duty). Each opto's out drives a small tranny which in turn drives two paralleled MJL21194 transistors. Until I don't get to circuit to switch properly with mosfets.

When I first started the circuit everything was basically shorted! And I couldn't figure out why, so I disconnected one side of the switch and replaced the coils with a light bulb, so I was simply switching 24V into 12V trough a bulb. I finally realized that I started off with a too high frequency 7k or so, because I wanted to start off low at power (who works with solid state oscillators know what I mean), but the trannys would just stay on. As soon as I lowered the freq to around 600Hz or so they started to switch. After I reconnected the whole thing it finally worked.

I only ran it for about 15 minutes. The batts are 9Ah motorcycle batts and I had a 10W lightbulb on the transformer secondary. I noticed that the two top batteries pretty much stayed at the same voltage, while the lower ones got drained a lot, but strangely I also noticed that if I loaded the output some more they wouldn't be so badly abused.
Once I was figuring this out I noticed that the transformer, which is a trifilar 18AWG SG coil got very very hot! The MJL's weren't cool either.
So before I do more testing I need to make it work with mosfets, thinking of IRF150's which I have, and I need to replace the transformer.
I think I'll try a 200 watt toroidal mains transformer I have. The primaries are very low ohm, 0.2 ohms. The secondaries are 110V or 220V in series.

Matt are you seeing the same thing with the lower batts? When the circuit is turned on it's like a huge load is instantly put on them... I have to see what happens when I can load more heavily. If I follow your batt capacity versus output ratio I should be able to pull about 40W from it, you got 500W with 110Ah batts, I'll try 40W with Ah batts...

I'll let you know how it goes

Mario