Awarded machine multiply force from a motor (free energy)

[Michael John Nunnerley]

P.S.

I forgot to say in this complicated action, look where the center of gravity is at any time instant, this is important as well in any calculations of gain in force. The center of gravity is changing ALL THE TIME, infact you would have to use a computor to calculate all the positives and negatives, it is really very very complicated

Mike

[Peter Lindemann]

Still Confused

I forgot to say in this complicated action, look where the center of gravity is at any time instant, this is important as well in any calculations of gain in force. The center of gravity is changing ALL THE TIME, in fact, you would have to use a computer to calculate all the positives and negatives, it is really very very complicated

Mike

Mike,

You make an interesting case, but it still makes no sense to me. My reasoning is based on the fact that some of the films of these devices operating do NOT show either the counter rotation or the elevated "weight". which I believe may only be a light piece of metal serving the purpose of a "position indicator", more like a stiff flag. Here are two such links that show Mr. Ramos with his machine with no "elevated weight".

Invidente peruano crea sistema para resolver el problema energético mundial - YouTube

This one shows blue print type drawings at 1:42 with no elevated weight:
Conozca más sobre el inventor peruano que ganó premio internacional - YouTube

What I see is that there are FOUR FLYWHEELS on the machine. These flywheels are always shown.

I just don't get what is happening here. Mr. Ramos is obviously very smart. He is being interviewed all over Peruvian television and given great respect. He won a Bronze Metal at an Inventors Convention in Switzerland. He claims the machine can produce gains of 20-to-1 and can be scaled to kilowatts of power.

And we are asked to believe that all of this is supposedly happening because a small weight is bobbing around on top of an eccentric, reverse rotating crank shaft! WOW!

If all of this is true, then God has a much better sense of humor then I originally thought!

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

The weight is always there

Mike,

You make an interesting case, but it still makes no sense to me. My reasoning is based on the fact that some of the films of these devices operating do NOT show either the counter rotation or the elevated "weight". which I believe may only be a light piece of metal serving the purpose of a "position indicator", more like a stiff flag. Here are two such links that show Mr. Ramos with his machine with no "elevated weight".

Invidente peruano crea sistema para resolver el problema energético mundial - YouTube

This one shows blue print type drawings at 1:42 with no elevated weight:
Conozca más sobre el inventor peruano que ganó premio internacional - YouTube

What I see is that there are FOUR FLYWHEELS on the machine. These flywheels are always shown.

I just don't get what is happening here. Mr. Ramos is obviously very smart. He is being interviewed all over Peruvian television and given great respect. He won a Bronze Metal at an Inventors Convention in Switzerland. He claims the machine can produce gains of 20-to-1 and can be scaled to kilowatts of power.

And we are asked to believe that all of this is supposedly happening because a small weight is bobbing around on top of an eccentric, reverse rotating crank shaft! WOW!

If all of this is true, then God has a much better sense of humor then I originally thought!

Peter

Hi Peter, I agree you do not see the weight, NOT AT FIRST, but it is there but not at 90 degrees but as an extention of the coupling beyond the bearing. I did not see this the first time, few weeks ago, and was a puzzle for me because my explination would not make sence without that weight.

I believe from what I have been told, the Germans told him that it would work like that and did not have to be at 90 degrees, and I see their point if you think about it, but one thing is it has to be there.

As far as going in two directions, well yes it can but only a counter direction works as an increase in force, the same direction is a 1:1. Once started in the right direction it will maintain that direction due to "THAT EXTRA WEIGHT".

The fly wheels are just that, like in any motor an "energy store".

You will note in the very first video posted on this thread, when starting the motor the direction was made to go counter to the drive, by hand, as it was started.

Now to put a real spaner in the works the takeoff can be on the same shaft as the drive, well the other end of it just increase the fly wheel weight on the other shaft.


Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Jetis

I see you looking at this thread, I think you are the man to build one, you have the workshop for this I know

Mike

[Aaron]

energy gain

I think that is exactly what Aaron is talking about, adding more potiental (which is the same as multiplying the potiental) to get the final output. Even though they are seperate potientials the output had just been multiplied.

Yes, anytime the system "resets" itself to establish another potential difference, then new potential (not conserved) comes into the system to do more real work (dissipated energy) - and therefore, there is an energy gain measurable in joule seconds. Nobody can dispute the elementary math on this because if they simply add up all the force X distance real dissipated work that can be measured on every cycle, the energy gain is common sense - not just an increase in force.

[Aaron]

inverted pendulum, crankshaft, flywheel effect, etc...

In this video Peter posted...

Conozca más sobre el inventor peruano que ganó premio internacional - YouTube

Aside from the weight, which I don't think there can be a gain without gravitational potential, I think there is definitely a flywheel effect that is in operation here to store momentum in addition to the use of the possible weight.

In that video linked above, there is a couple seconds where he cranks the handle to speed up the wheels and lets go to show they keep spinning. 0:51~0:55 of that vid.

I don't understand Spanish but he seems to be demonstrating that there is a flywheel effect. Obviously the effect on the small demo prototype is puny of course scaled up with some real weight, the effect would be significant.

At 0:19 of the same video, the weight looks exactly half way between the two axles of the flywheels and not offset like the animated gif showing the figure 8 motion.

And we see that the input and output are off the same shaft on that one!

At 0:24 of the same vid, we see the weight is also exactly between the 2 bearings - doesn't look offset to me.

At 0:29 weight in still in the middle and input/output are on different shafts.

1:16 to 1:20 you can see the input driver and no output. There is the vertical rod directly between both shafts and not offset. There is no big weight on the top of the rod or maybe it isn't needed unless there is output taken. If vertical rod was just an indicator of position, I would guess it would serve that function without putting the big round thing on it.

Eltimple that did the little replication said to a response in youtube:

"In its current form no... There is an inverted pendulum missing , that needs to go on to crank. , I will add motors in due course and see what happens."

That was a response to someone in Chile who referred to it as a pendulum too. In Spanish, throughout the videos, is the inventor calling this a pendulum?

Eltimple said it goes on the crank. Is the crank to be considered the bar or "connecting rod" that joins both shafts or is the crank to be considered the shaft with the offset bearing? If the shaft, then I can see how it is supposed to be offset, but visually, it always looks in the middle which would make the crank the connecting rod between both shafts.

Any ideas on that?

[Aaron]

self running

One other thing is that this will not self run, an input is always needed "like the person on a swing", time instant is the key and the other thing is this will put a huge strain on the bearings and would be something to be addressed in a workable engine, or drive unit.

Why can't it self run?

If you have 1000 watt hours in and 5000 watt hours out, you can take 1000 from that and put it to the input motor to self run.

The loop is still open because the input motor and output generator are independent of each other.

And, it is still open to gravity.

If there are gains there that the inventor claims and if it is up to 20:1, that is plenty to make it self run from the electrical output.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Why can't it self run?

If you have 1000 watt hours in and 5000 watt hours out, you can take 1000 from that and put it to the input motor to self run.

The loop is still open because the input motor and output generator are independent of each other.

And, it is still open to gravity.

If there are gains there that the inventor claims and if it is up to 20:1, that is plenty to make it self run from the electrical output.

I should have said it will not self run without an initial input such as a motor and then on the output a generator. It will not run without these convertors of energy, sorry for the miss understanding

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

In this video Peter posted...

Conozca más sobre el inventor peruano que ganó premio internacional - YouTube

Aside from the weight, which I don't think there can be a gain without gravitational potential, I think there is definitely a flywheel effect that is in operation here to store momentum in addition to the use of the possible weight.

In that video linked above, there is a couple seconds where he cranks the handle to speed up the wheels and lets go to show they keep spinning. 0:51~0:55 of that vid.

I don't understand Spanish but he seems to be demonstrating that there is a flywheel effect. Obviously the effect on the small demo prototype is puny of course scaled up with some real weight, the effect would be significant.

At 0:19 of the same video, the weight looks exactly half way between the two axles of the flywheels and not offset like the animated gif showing the figure 8 motion.

And we see that the input and output are off the same shaft on that one!

At 0:24 of the same vid, we see the weight is also exactly between the 2 bearings - doesn't look offset to me.

At 0:29 weight in still in the middle and input/output are on different shafts.

1:16 to 1:20 you can see the input driver and no output. There is the vertical rod directly between both shafts and not offset. There is no big weight on the top of the rod or maybe it isn't needed unless there is output taken. If vertical rod was just an indicator of position, I would guess it would serve that function without putting the big round thing on it.

Eltimple that did the little replication said to a response in youtube:

"In its current form no... There is an inverted pendulum missing , that needs to go on to crank. , I will add motors in due course and see what happens."

That was a response to someone in Chile who referred to it as a pendulum too. In Spanish, throughout the videos, is the inventor calling this a pendulum?

Eltimple said it goes on the crank. Is the crank to be considered the bar or "connecting rod" that joins both shafts or is the crank to be considered the shaft with the offset bearing? If the shaft, then I can see how it is supposed to be offset, but visually, it always looks in the middle which would make the crank the connecting rod between both shafts.

Any ideas on that?

I would say the crank is the offset bearing and drive shaft combined. The conecting shaft is just that, connecting the two cranks at 180 degrees out of phase.

If you look at 0:28 of that video the lolypop seems to be in the middle, but look at the length of the overshoot of the connecting shaft!!!!!!!! I think the lolypop is AND is not a red herring, moved afterwards so people do not see what is happening.

I would love to build this but at the moment I am just not well enough to be up to the task, I have just had removed a cancerous lump from my colon, small operation but left me with little will to build anything, so only doing this type of work for a while, "using my brain for what it is".

Mike

[Aaron]

self running - simplicity?

I should have said it will not self run without an initial input such as a motor and then on the output a generator. It will not run without these convertors of energy, sorry for the miss understanding

Mike

Ok, well you did actually say "an input is always needed" - so my misunderstanding.

So, I guess for clarification, we agree that it can self run if there is an input motor being driven by an output generator that is producing enough excess.

The simplicity and counter-intuitiveness of this reminds me of the DWFTTW (down wind faster than the wind) experiment. lol

[Aaron]

Peruvian Torque Amplifier Device Wins in Geneva

Some explanation in English...

This site is posted by the guy who did the little replication:
Peruvian Torque Amplifier Device Wins in Geneva – Orbo.es

Maybe some controversy as to whether he actually won the award?

Anyway, read this carefully, has some clear explanations of the mechanics of the unit...
Peruvian Torque Amplifier Device Wins in Geneva





South American Media is a buzz with the News. from here
Fernando Sixto Ramos, a Peruvian blind engineer aged 63, shot to fame this week in Peru after receiving an international award for inventing a system that could solve energy problems worldwide. It is capable of multiplying the force generated by a motor as many times as is required. A force amplifier, a 1 hp motors output is converted into a 30 hp motor.

With his “multiplying system of force”, an invention he developed over the last 15 years, as he lost vision, this humble engineer won the bronze medal in the category of mechanics and industrial processes of the 41st Edition of the international salon of inventions, held in Geneva (Switzerland) last week.


Editor: This story now gets interesting as a quick visit to here and here trying to confirm this prize reveals nothing. So unless there was a pretty serious omission or error there, are we to believe this was a fake? There is no mention that he has won anything.




As we can plainly see Fernando is not a rich man. In the weeks before his tip to Geneva he appears in this story here Where we learn that in December of last year he won an inventions contest organized by Indecopi. which is the Peruvian intellectual property patent office where he and his device passed all of the tests. The prize was the chance to represent Peru in Geneva in the 41st Edition of the international Invention show. Unfortunately for Fernando he needed extra help to pay the 60 or so dollars required to obtain a medical card that would allow him into Europe. Not to mention funds to allow his son to travel with him as a carer due to his reduced visibility.The article goes on to say however.. That the Peruvian body which advocates intellectual property was doing him a disservice as it is not giving him any help with the patent for his invention, You can not sell your system without the patent he was told.”We went to Indecopi and they told us that the process to obtain the patent takes five years.” “We cannot wait that long because we need the money to continue working and to keep our home , indicated Ramos…

Quite a sad tale of bad advice it seems to far . Ed But just look at the coverage on the local tv. Why would anyone deny or invent a story like this one. What reason would there be for this winner to not appear in the list of published winners?

And also this link to Peruvean newspaper where we can see the machine in action


Conozca a Sixto Ramos - el peruano que inventó el Sistema Multiplicador de Fuerza | LaRepublica.pe


Ramos told us that his system is “able to move a large vessel with just a car engine”. It is based on two parallel axes whose centers oscillate which connect to the end of a bar that links to both and, in turn, this allows it to implement movement on one axis, the other turns in the opposite direction and “returns multiplied force to the first, which also generates an outside force that can magnify” If you connect other parallel wheels that repeat the same action.


“It’s so simple.” You create an action and a reaction. “Force its transmitted to the other axis and then multiplied, and is so continuously”


The system is exponential because “an engine of one horse power can be multiplied by twenty, and then by forty to 800 horse power”, since it all depends on variables such as wheelbase, mass, diameter, eccentricity and direction, “the greater these figures the greater is the amplified force.”
Its simplicity is found in classical mechanics, with the lever of Archimedes and the Parallels of such: “it varies the gravity of a falling body and that falling force increases with the use of a lever for transmission to the other axis.” It’s like Kung Fu. “You use the strength of the opponent to beat it,” he said…
.
So after reading the news reports from Peru and seeing him in various interviews, it seems very likely that he went to Switzerland. Am i mistaken? Why would anyone want to remove his name from the list of prize winners? I cannot help but believe this mans story, regardless what you may think of the invention, the human side tells me he did indeed go and he did indeed win a bronze for Peru. Why no one outside of Peru knows about this I do not know. I hopefully have rectified so of that with this humble blog.


Excerpts from Peruvian Press…



Fernando Sixto Ramos Solano is the father of eleven children and with the support of his family has fulfilled a dream that began in the classrooms of the National School of engineering in Peru: To save energy through the application of an external force.

Also, his brother, the main economic supporter of the Ramos family was diagnosed with brain cancer. All the money that was intended for the company had to be used to cover the costs of the disease.


He defeated adversity

Despite the obstacles, the former pupil of colegio Salesiano Don Bosco of the Callao was able to invent the force multiplier system. In December of last year he won the 10th inventions contest organized by Indecopi The Peruvian Patent office. He passed all the tests.

The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) has invited him to participate in the International exhibition of inventions, to be held in Ginebra-Suiza from 18 to 22 April of this year.


Sixto will travel in the company of his son William, who will help you to be mobilized. WIPO only between the costs of the inventor, that is why the Ramos family It is making strenuous efforts to get money. Also need the Swiss Card (cost $65), a kind of insurance compulsory for entry to the European country.

just found another video… I have replicated this device and will let you know more shortly…

Recieving the prize in Peru that sent him on to Geneva..from 2mins..

[Jetijs]

Hi Mike
Don't really have time for that right now, especially without any proof that it works. Will see how it turns out


Thanks,
Jetijs

Hi Jetis

I see you looking at this thread, I think you are the man to build one, you have the workshop for this I know

Mike

[Aaron]

lever offset in this image

The screenshot of this video:

Conozca a Sixto Ramos - el peruano que inventó el Sistema Multiplicador de Fuerza | LaRepublica.pe

shows the level off set over one of the axles as depicted in the animated gif.

In the other vids, it looks exactly between them or maybe it was the camera perspective that made it look that way?

In this case, the crank seems to definitely be the shaft with the offset bearing and NOT the "connecting rod" between the two shafts.

At 0:24 in this video, the lever is clearly over the axle - attached directly to the connecting rod bar.

I'll have to look at that vid Peter posted again because the level does look to be between the axle.

0:57 to 1:03, we can see the lever or "inverted pendulum" on the bar with the shaft rotating pretty clear.

[Aaron]

Eltimple's first post

Artoj - thanks for posting the original images of the sequence by the way, it shows exactly what Fernando is explaining according to Eltimple.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Eltimple's first post:

Published on May 5, 2012 by Eltimple


South American Media is a buzz with the News..

Fernando Sixto Ramos, a Peruvian blind engineer aged 63, shot to fame this week in Peru after receiving an international award for inventing a system that could solve energy problems worldwide. It is capable of multiplying the force generated by a motor as many times as is required. A force amplifier, a 1 hp motors output is converted into a 30 hp motor. go to www.[URL="http://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Forbo.es%2F%3Fp%3D138&sessi on_token=MruLyLY8oV8gaRWWRvhgK8-axyx8MTM0MDczODQ0NkAxMzQwNjUyMDQ2"]http://orbo.es/?p=138[/URL] for more info.

The idea is that when the wheels are arranged so that the cam makes them contra rotate, the connecting bar traces a figure of 8, Thus when you place a weight on a lever to the connecting rod it ( It is placed vertically, almost like an inverted pendulum ) will appear to be constantly falling, or levering to the left or the right, with each left and right movement. this movement of the weight that has been leveraged against the cams is the source of the torque multiplication The inventor gives that as his explanation.

It does seem this may conform to those machines that claim to use centrifugal force (internal centrifugal potential field) for creating excess energy.

The additional force does not fulfil Newton's third law. No reaction occurs and this force is converted into a torque and power in this case. Now i will just have to connect up a few motors to do some measurements


---------------------------------------


So it isn't ambiguous I believe - it is definitely gravitational potential that is the source of the amplification by using the weight on the vertical lever.


The "no reaction" I believe is not accurate. Is is simply that there IS a reaction but the reaction helps to propel the system forward exactly like Veljko's oscillator violating the third "law".



It is starting to make more and more sense.

[Aaron]

self running

Few references:

Directory: Fernando Sixto Ramos Solano: Force Multiplier System - PESWiki

"In a phone interview with me (via interpreter) on May 4, 2012, he said: "This is a project that will benefit the entirety of humanity."

In a phone interview on May 7, 2012, in answering a question about whether or not they have been able to self-loop the output to run the input, with excess energy left over for practical use, Fernado replied that Yes, they have done this; and that is why they received the award in Switzerland. "