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Delamorto simple inverter device

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  • #31
    Hi guy's, I think with looping this system, it's all about the energy.

    If a 30 uf cap is used with 220 volts, then each cycle a maximum of 726 millijoules
    can be transferred through the FWBR to the 600 mH inductor, which as long as
    it can store the 726 joules should then convert it to just under 18 volts in the
    4700uf capacitor feeding the inverter. (Maybe that is for each half cycle.)

    If you use 260 v which is the normal open circuit voltage of a regular 240 volt
    inverter, (I have one) (mine is a sine wave inverter) then with 260 volts and
    30 uF there will be a maximum of 1.014 joules which should charge the cap to
    about 21 volts. Maybe not too good for a bought inverter, I'm not sure it
    might depend. one can be made to work from that.

    This is based on the maximum energy the capacitor can pass with each AC
    "half" cycle I think.

    Applying the load should drop the voltage to under 250 volts.

    However two things could be done, use a smaller than 30 uF 275 - 400 volt
    cap or use a larger than 4700 uF capacitor for the lower voltage maybe rated
    to 35 volt or more might be better just in case, a larger cap there will cause
    the energy to charge the cap to a lower voltage.

    I think it might be necessary to ensure the inductor can store all or nearly all
    of the energy that the 30 uF cap could supply it in that situation. If the
    inductor did not cause enough voltage drop or store enough of the energy
    then there could be problems.

    That's how I see the looping working. If I'm not exactly clear I can try to
    elaborate more. Remember I'm not an expert, just a thinker. When I look at
    the circuit and have a think about it that's what I see. I could be wrong.

    The idle current of a regular inverter can be a bit more than is possible with a
    made one. And a made one can be repaired cheaply if a mishap should occur.
    However the idle losses of a made one will be mainly from core and copper
    losses. Bought inverters often have an AC cap across the AC output which in
    my experience always increases idle input power.

    For resistive loads that cap across the output is not really needed in my opinion.

    We must remember to be very careful if using medium voltages and low frequencies.

    Not all inverters are equal I have one which the voltage is 260 volts open
    circuit and drops with load ( a cheaper one), but I also have a true sine wave
    inverter ( a more expensive one ) which keeps 230 volts across the output all
    the times as far as I can tell.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Farmhand; 05-14-2012, 12:55 AM.

    Comment


    • #32
      OK maybe I have the above explanation a bit wrong, maybe one half of the
      cycle can provide the energy for the lamp to be powered during the other half.
      I'm not seeing immediately how it would self run. But I will try to set up this
      circuit today/tonight, I might at least get part of the way. Or test some things.
      I've got some 21 watt 12 volt bulbs and I can vary the 250 volt capacitance a bit.

      Cheers

      P.S. If we make our own inverter circuit with variable frequency and we only
      want to power lights we might be able to vary the value of some of the
      components by using a higher frequency, going by the same principal.
      I can set up a 12 to 60 v inverter (iron powder core) to work at up to 400 Khz.
      However I will build a 50/60 Hz inverter with frequency adjustment anyway since
      I have the parts to try it.
      Last edited by Farmhand; 05-14-2012, 01:38 AM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Farmhand,

        thanks for your insights, they are much appreciated.
        I did not look at it that way (energy), so need to dig deeper.

        I was thinking about using a 15V zener diode for protection.

        Looking forward to your experiments here.

        Regards Itsu

        Comment


        • #34
          loopback danger

          Hello itsu,

          thank you for your presentation of the "loopback-inverter" in your latest videos on your youtube-channel itsusable - YouTube

          Regarding the danger of looping back the high voltage, my thoughts are as follows:
          As long as you leave the battery connected on the input-side and loop the inverter's output back to the battery, the voltage and current from the inverter will charge the battery. So the voltage on the input-side will only SLOWLY climb above 12 volts. It will not go to 100V instantly.
          Am I right?

          So I think you can safely loop the output back to the input side, as long as the battery is connected, because that battery will work as a buffer.

          PS: Also in delamorto's latest inverter video the battery remains connected:
          УÑтройÑтво Ñкономии разрÑда аккумулÑтора-2.wmv - YouTube
          Last edited by marxist; 05-14-2012, 10:23 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Hi Marxist,

            you could be right ;-)

            But at some point i have to remove the battery otherwise i will never know if it will keep on running without a battery.

            I will try that, thanks.

            itsu

            Comment


            • #36
              Hi Guy's, I just tried this and the good news is there was no problems as such
              except that when I disconnected the battery it stopped. My setup is not very
              ideal, I have a regular square wave inverter circuit but the transformer is a
              15v-0-15 to 220, so I'm only getting 160 volts AC, I can vary the PW to get a
              castle type wave form. Anyway I use a 4000uF-63v capacitor across the
              inverter supply, the circuit has another 430uF on the board, I used 29.4uF-450v
              AC cap, when I tried to use a 12 volt 21 watt bulb the input was a few amps
              but the bulb didn't light so I used a 240v-25watt bulb instead. I put on safety
              glasses. I also used the diode from the battery so the battery couldn't be charged.

              I'm wondering how much power I can drain from the cap being charged without
              looping the setup. Anyway I'll quickly videotape what is happening here now
              then I'll see what I can get out unlooped, and experiment for a while.

              Oh it's a good idea to short the big cap before connecting it to the inverter.
              I almost connected mine fully charged.

              Cheers
              Last edited by Farmhand; 05-14-2012, 01:16 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Delamorto deception video

                Is everyone aware of this, I have no idea what it all means, it's all new to me.
                I don't understand the language in the video. But the website is saying
                something about a fake. I think the video explains how something was faked, I
                don't know what though. SR device maybe.

                Video
                Delamorto deception .... - YouTube

                Almost at the bottom of this page talks about a fake.
                DELAMORTO / FreeEnergyLT / FreeEnergyLT

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #38
                  Sup Y'All!

                  I didn't know where to put it so here it is...
                  It uses the same principle described in this thread and is based in some way on the Infinite Power Supply idea.
                  I present only the idea without pointing to specific components.
                  This is suppose to be a push-pull inverter stage on the 2 opposing primary coils (i.e. audio type transformer in reverse).
                  The coils cannot be in a form of a center-tapped primary.
                  Drive it with short pulses, alternatively, reserving some time for the inductive kick to charge a mirror battery, probably through a choke (not shown)
                  in order to minimize the current hitting the battery (when for instance gel cell are used).


                  Secondary winding of this transformer is not shown here...


                  I bought some beefy IGBTs rated 1200V and same rated fast switching diodes...
                  Time to experiment!
                  Attached Files
                  “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Busted

                    @ all,

                    thanks for the comments i received, it convinced me that i could "safely" loop back the output, which i did.

                    The result is like mentioned before by other replicators, no light for the 12V/21W bulb
                    even when still connecting the 12V source (battery), and when removing this 12V source,
                    the output drops immediately to only 1 a 2V.

                    When using a 230V/25W bulb instead, this lights up when connected to the 12V source, but also
                    stops when disconnecting the 12V.

                    No change after replacing the output cap from 330uF to 4400uF.

                    Only major difference now is the 3.3H choke instead of the original 0.6H, but i doubt that this will
                    make it a selfrunner.......

                    Video to be seen here: delamorto inverter 4.avi - YouTube


                    Regards Itsu

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Very nice work Itsu, I made a small video which is uploading now, mine is a
                      messy video as usual, it shows pretty much the same result with two
                      different cap sizes, I tried varying the PW which just varied things like normal.

                      I will measure some power out of the cap charged without looping it, and
                      make some observations, I might drain that charging cap through a 12v 21 watt
                      bulb and into the battery/supply cap, if it looks like being worth a try.

                      As a side note I found this document I thought was interesting, many people
                      may have read this stuff already, but I'll link it for curiosity/info.

                      The interesting thing I noticed in there was in the "Voltage Spikes" section on
                      page 2 it tells of two ways of controlling the voltage spikes. One way is with
                      high power Zeners, and the other way is with "recovery" style diodes and a
                      capacitor. What I wondering is how do they keep the capacitor from being
                      charged more than twice the battery voltage, I guess they dump it back to
                      the supply if it goes over twice the battery voltage or burn it off somehow.
                      If they were concerned with efficiency they would recycle it. I bet they do.

                      Seems to me a good commercial inverter should have transient protection/recycling.
                      If they don't they only degrade their own efficiency rating.

                      Quote from document
                      Another approach is to have high-power standard diodes
                      connected from each end of the primary to a large
                      electrolytic capacitor, which becomes charged up to twice
                      the battery voltage. When the ends of the primary attempt
                      to rise higher than this voltage, the diodes conduct and
                      allow the capacitor to absorb the spike energy.
                      DC-AC Inverters Document
                      http://www.electusdistribution.com.a...d/inverter.pdf

                      Cheers

                      P.S. Here's my video, Delamorto looper.wmv - YouTube

                      I investigated a little bit (not on video) to see what was happening. I set it up to charge the
                      capacitor through the 0.52H inductor then drained the cap through a 12 volt
                      3 watt bulb into the battery while the setup was running, the result was
                      34.5 mA of current with the cap holding at just above the battery voltage,
                      the battery was at about 12.5v and the cap at about 12.9 volts with 34.5 mA
                      of current through the bulb. The input was about 8.9 watts with under 0.5
                      watts being put into the cap to maintain the current through the bulb.

                      I think it's fairly obvious the main 240v light bulb is dissipating the majority of the 8.9
                      watts as heat and light.
                      The 3 watt 12 volt bulb did not even glow with 34.5 mA of current.

                      ..
                      Last edited by Farmhand; 05-15-2012, 01:59 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Thanks Farmhand,

                        looks like our results are very similar.

                        The linked PDF file is usefull as i indeed see many nasty spikes in
                        the output when loaded, pushing the peak to peak value up to 1000V ac.

                        I will do some filtering and hunt for a choke of 0.6H.

                        Regards Itsu

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Inverter

                          Hi guys does this inverter run itself? I understood well?
                          Thanks for sharing.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            More testing

                            Hi Guruji,

                            we are trying, but no luck up till now :-(

                            All,

                            I got a request to show the voltage drop time when disconnecting the battery with the 12V/21W bulb installed.
                            But there is not really a time, the dropoff is immediately.
                            Not surprisingly when there is 4 amps running.
                            Not sure where that power goes to as nothing obvious is getting warm and no lights are on.

                            Anyway, here the video of this test: Delamorto inverter 5.avi - YouTube


                            Regards Itsu

                            Comment

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