Anyone tried to build a Perendev motor?

[theremart]

That is very cool. I decided to do the Negative of what you had...

I saw different details with the negative... Seems to have strong gauze by the corners of the poles...

It just hit me that we could be using the 'North pole' on the SSG because it is stronger than the south... The magnet does seem stronger darker on the one end. So that is why compasses point north a stronger pole....

[vzon17]

im glad you brought this up, and i wanted to speculate on your design before, but without any of my own experimentation i didnt want to intrude.

if you look at the real Perendev motor,
the magnets are not facing each other exactly, they are slightly tilted/offset.
if you were to put a SLIGHT tilt on your magnets(or slightly shave an angle into them), i bet you would get the thrust you need.

also, he has his rotor inside of the stator, which would make the rotor fully saturated with the magnetic flux of the stator. you have the plates facing each other, and it seems like it would simply be like two Sumo-wrestlers pushing against each other... no movement.

you can even try this by holding two of those magnets close to each other. if you have them perfectly parallel, there is only a straight, outward push. but if you start to manipulate one of them, you will feel a thrust off to one side.

-bryan

His plates are not facing each other those are two halves tha get bolted together to for the rotor. you need to look more closely there and think a bit about what you are looking at.
V

[magnetO]

Hello Jetijs,

do you have some flux film pics showing an air coil or iron core coil?

Do the flux lines in the middle of a coil make a bundle too?

Some comparison fotos coil / permanent magnet from the same shape?

Sorry for beeing that curious.

Thanks
magnetO

[Tehnoman]

This is for Gary



This photo shows two 40x20x10mm ceramic magnets pressed together with the same poles.
[..]

Interesting... Just one question - have you ever tried to view electro-magnet field (not permanent magnet) with this film? And/or field, that is around wire in witch current is flowing?

[Joit]

@ Technoman
At this Link is a Picture of a Wire and the Magnetic field.
Wissen Magnetmotor.at
I would be intrested, how the Field looks like at different Coils, like bifilar, single wired, or only in one Direction wounded.

And yes, its maybe not a good idea to bring Alu to Magnetic Fields.
I did make a Cd and did glue around it Magnets.
When i let them turn ( the Cd is on a Fan attached) and hold a Alu disc over it, it slows the Motor down to close still standing.
When it both turn at same Speed, i think it doesnt make a lot different,
because i had another Aludisk under the Cd glued.
But if one Part is standing, it slows it totally down.
Not sure, if the Alu-rotor at DC motors is an advantage, or disadvantage, that the Iron is enbedded at Alu.

[monsterman]

what happened to the perendev engine? i seen the proto type 2 on utube. they show it spining but dont show the side where the shaft sticks out till after they show the motor slowing down. looks like a nice engine and is there any nwes on this south african inventors or the german company involved in it?

[Joit]

Latest News i heared from it was, that he only wanna deal with the Carindustry, and not sell to Private Persons.

Even when you rent one, the Motor wont be ever yours.
But once 19500€ and then rent is not less.
i guess, hes waiting for the Big Deal from the Industry,
that they can put the Plans into her Safes to surpress something once more.
And Shame at this Guy Mike Brady, what only got $-Eyes, like Dagobert Duck.

[bart]

mag material

jetijs not to good with the computer thing ..i ll give it a whirrlll it is said that alumium eventually takes on magnetic properties not sure at the moment but the composites are the problem something in the mix ,. i too believe brady had or has something, there are/ angle allowances /shielding/ bearing[my problem]i ll try to get some help today to show some pics [might be some help] i started with this project then like ten more and nothing done for achievment but a silent screaming wife ha ha .......apparently brady sold a unit to an investor the investor took it to the lab the lab said they had two more previously from years before, they work to some degree how ever the mags exhaust themselves over time from being in a closed loop . where ever the truth lies i still believe there is somthing here and its possibly with john s circuit by giving a cancelation on a scheduale on the golden ratio effect. i would like to share my pile of efforts to what ever degree of help it may be.i started from this the idea of[probably not new] and hoping not to upset the greats but]here goes bedini /adams/lindemann i know i know i know not the same but shared on the same build ratios syncronized electronically and for the time manually there might be something there. i ll show that pic to, then you will probably start to understand my wife or i mean life. ha ha bart

[helioc]

perendev motor "replic"

perendev.pdf

i do that...

but dont work :-( :-( :-(

[Jetijs]

Great work helioc
Did you shield the magnets? I mean did you put them in a iron cylinder or did you just put them in the plastic frame without any shielding at all? Also are those two big bolts on the stator made out of stainless steel of ordinary iron? If its iron, then that might affect the motor operation.

[Doc]

From what I have understood about this motor is that the magentic shielding is imperative, in conjunction with the right angles and distances.
Steel seems to be the cheapest and best material fot htis purpose. Aluminium has a low magnetic attraction and does not act as a flux deflector.

I seems that when one gets all these components working in unison to the point of a working motor, the effect does not last past 20 minutes. For some reason the flux energy from the repulsion effect, dissipates over time requiring a constant change of permanent magnets. This could be the reason that we have not heard any more details about this motor.

So yes it works, but is not sustainable.

If this is all true then the next plausable step would be to design a stator that is pulsed from an electric field rather than a permanent magnet.

[helioc]

Great work helioc
Did you shield the magnets? I mean did you put them in a iron cylinder or did you just put them in the plastic frame without any shielding at all? Also are those two big bolts on the stator made out of stainless steel of ordinary iron? If its iron, then that might affect the motor operation.

I use the shield in the stator.... in iron,but in the rotor no.....teh rotor and the stator is in plastic, the others elements is on iron.

:-(

[rickoff]

Regarding shielding and offsets:

I can see that helioc installed shielding around the stator magnets, but the rotor magnets do not have shielding. Shielding plays a very important part in the Perendev PMM, and all of the magnets must be effectively shielded. In the photo (shown below) of the Perendev rotor stack, you can clearly see that the rotor magnets are shielded. If you look closely at the rotor being dropped onto the shaft, you will see crescent shaped undercuts to the left of each magnet, and these cuts have been made to receive additional shielding. The purpose of the crescent shielding is to lessen the repulsive effect of rotor magnets as they approach a stator magnet. In the working video of the Perendev PMM, the crescent shielding had not yet been installed. Even though the device ran quite well, it would probably do even better with the crescents in place.


The rotor magnet offset as used by helioc would appear to be insufficient, and this is another reason why his build is not working. The correct offset, from one rotor to the next, is 1/2 the magnet width, and so the total offset between the 1st and 3rd rotors is a full magnet width. In the photo below, a flat board experiment clearly shows the proper relationship of the rotor and stator magnets to achieve forward propulsion. It should be noted that the upper board is the "rotor" and the lower board is the "stator" in this example. The boards have graph paper glued to their faces, and you can clearly see the magnet installation layout. Ideally, the magnet width equals two graph cell widths, and the spacing between each magnet equals one cell width. This is true for both the rotor and stator. With a curved rotor and stator, if you are looking at the stator from above then its bore spacings will obviously appear wider apart than those of the rotor, but the radial spacings should be the same angle apart for both rotor and stator. It is hard to determine if that is the case in helioc's build, but it is an important factor. I have drawn colored lines across the board to represent alignment of the stator magnets to the rotor magnets. The stator magnets are represented by the yellow circles. The area between the blue lines, and the area between the green lines, depict the current alignment of stator magnets. You can see that the stator magnets are directly aligned with the bottom rotor magnet. The area between the pink lines shows how the relationship changes when the stator magnet alignment is directly in line with the middle rotor magnet. The area between the pink and green line shows the stator in direct alignment with the top rotor magnet. In any one of these three positions, you can see that we have two rotor magnets that are either half on or half off alignment with the stator magnets, and that these are in equilibrium. If that's all we had, then there would be no motion, but the third magnet is in direct repulsion. Due to the angle that the magnets are placed, this direct repulsion results in a forward motion of the board (to the right), and this is true at any one of the 3 possible alignment positions.


To see the "rotor" board in motion, view this video clip:
wayne2 mag board test.avi - Windows Live

Sorry, helioc, I do not know the Portuguese language, but if you have trouble understanding my explanations, you may be able to translate what I have said by using either the Google or Babelfish language translators. I hope this helps you to get your PMM going. It looks like you have spent considerable time putting it together, and much of what you have done is correct. As jetijs mentions, be sure to use non-magnetic stainless steel for any bolts or other metal parts, and also for your through shaft.

Best regards,

Rick

[helioc]

"The correct offset, from one rotor to the next, is 1/2 the magnet width, and so the total offset between the 1st and 3rd rotors is a full magnet width."

Rick

I do that ... :-(

what you suggest?

Help me :-)

[What The Flux]

@Jetijs,

Pardon me for stepping in here a little bit late. I have just joined this great forum after reading it for months.

I have not built a Perendev motor, but I have build a rotor and stator setup to try to verify the concepts before I poured lots of $$ into a full motor. I have tried to watch every video of the motor and read all the documentation supporting it. As a matter of fact, this was the idea that got me started researching OU phenomenon.

I found lots of videos, but very little scientific study on the concept, with the exception of Tom Bearden who actually tried to explain the physics. In his paper "Permanent Magnetic Motors", he showed some hand drawn charts which explained the concept. So I set out to duplicate and verify it. He showed these diagrams to explain what happens when you angle and shield a cylinder magnet on a rotor:



However this is not the exact result I found experimentally.
I had cut (with great toil) some cylindrical neo magnets at an angle, and cut crescent shields from steel, and mounted them at opposing angles on the rotor and stator. The whole principal is to minimize the magnetic opposition as the magnets approach, and then let the strong force kick in after they hit top dead center.

What I found when I did this, was that there was much less opposition as the magnets approached each other, but just before center, there was a HUGE opposing force, much greater than without the shields. I believe there should be a large peak on that graph before center, and the right side of the graph will also be deformed. I think science will back me up when I say that shields do not eliminate magnetic force, but they REDIRECT it. I wish a had a sexy dynomometer setup where I could plot the forces over distance, but I don't.

And since I tried this I have been searching forums and experimenters' sites to find anyone who has shown experimentally that shielding gives you a NET force in one direction over the entire path of travel. I WANT to find this info so I can continue working on this, but so far, I have not. This and the fact that there has been a 3 year silence from the manufacturers leads me to believe that my instincts were right. You can rearrange the flux lines as much as you want, but when you integrate over the entire path (in whatever dimension you would like), your net is zero.

But keep in mind I'm usually wrong.