Modifying Motors/Generators

[Farmhand]

Hi Farmhand, I am happy that you are disagreeing with me, I have been hoping someone would as I want to get to the bottom of this.

I agree the voltage drop is related to Power consumption but the current in and out of the motor is the same. You have seen that a motor can run on lower voltage and that the torque is proportional to the amps.. That's my point, its not the voltage, its the amps that are doing the work in a motor.

Now getting back to that voltage drop, the Ohms law part I understand, also the friction. I even understand the eddy current part to a great extent as eddy currents cause more draw of current from the source just like a transformer. Its the polarity changing in the core I still have to get a grasp of, How does that effect the power in or out?

On the magnetism. If we have a 10m length of wire and run 10 amps through it at 1v we have 10 watts input. if a small part of it was used as the coils in a DC motor it would still draw 10 amps even though the motor was doing work. If we doubled the number of turns in the motor it would double the work that the motor could do and the input would still remain the same as ohms law limits the current and so on. Obviously in a pulse motor we have to take into account the impedance caused by the inductance of the coil but as you know that energy isn't lost to heat as in ohmic resistance and is given back as the field collapse occurs.

I tried this experiment. I put a 12v 100w motor on a 12v power supply that is limited to 4 amps and measured the torque. I then connected two of these power supplies in series and powered the motor. The current was still 4 amps and the torque remained the same but the motor got hotter (as did the power supplies). To me this shows that it is the current doing the work and not the power as the increased voltage only increased the losses.

I have never found anything that proves the magnetic field consumes energy. If you have, can you post a link as I still cant get my head around this

If I am wrong I really would like to know it and why.

Thanks again as it is through people disagreeing with me that I find out new things and learn.

Hi mbrownn, I might be able to demonstrate that, I may need a day or two to
do it and upload the video. And I won't say for sure that is what is happening
but that's what it looks like to me. It's too difficult to explain well, but what I
see is if I adjust the input so that the input is broken by a pulse for the
collection of the field collapse, I see the recovery cap voltage climb, but
when I increase the speed/input voltage the recovery cap voltage drops.
I can't recall exactly what happened when I loaded the rotor, I'll see.

I noticed because the motor likes to use about 1 amp that if I put a 21 watt
12 v bulb in series with the field coils and power that in parallel with the
armature then the armature only uses about another 500 mA, which is almost
the same total field/armature input as idling on 12 volts with no load and
speed/power is comparable. So that makes sense to me.

I think to pulse a universal motor efficiently the field would need to be pulsed in
parallel with the armature but the field pulse should start earlier so that the
field is magnetized before the armature is pulsed. I found low frequency to be
effective when pulsing both in a series arrangement 12 Hz I am using.

The different pulse times, recovery and the overall control can be made fairly
easy and changeable by the use of a micro processor controller. But that
approach is not for everybody, there are other ways as well.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Hi Geo, Is your fan setup still umm setup ? I like it !

If I can offer a suggestion, if the recovery from the power coil is directed to a
higher voltage than the supply that should make the setup more efficient, I
find double the battery voltage to be best.

And also if the gen coils work into a lower voltage they will develop more current
by being clamped to a lower voltage, so that could help as well. But both those
things make getting the energy back to the source a bit more difficult but not
impossible. I like the idea's you get Geo, all idea's are good for thinking on.
Thanes principal could come into play given the right circumstances also.


Cheers

[mbrownn]

Thanks for the reply, I await your tests

[Guruji]

This is like bedini/Imhotep motor. Interesting.

[Farmhand]

This video is just a video to show some observations I made, I misspoke a
couple of times but the circuit drawing is there and the circuit under operation.
Right at the end I included a shot of the waveform from a generator coil held
near the rotor on the motor, the wave form appears as it does because the
rotor magnets are too far apart or too small, when I added another magnet
between the existing magnets the wave form became a nice sine wave.

As for the coil recovery it seems that when accelerating the recovery power is
negative but when the rotor is loaded the rotor slows the input power increases
and so does recovery, hardly useful really unless the reduction in shaft power is
required, this particular motor could probably be controlled better by just varying the voltage.

At this point I am more interested in generating than recovery from the prime mover.

Coil Recovery - YouTube

Cheers

[mbrownn]

I think that wave you have is important, its like the gfield generator.

what is your motor? is it modified?

I know someone who got that wave a month ago and had interesting results. you need to talk

[mbrownn]

This is the conversation we just had

[10:05:11 PM] mbrownn1: I think you will like the last 10 seconds of this video Coil Recovery - YouTube
[10:23:01 PM] Friend: AWESOME
[10:23:08 PM] Friend.: He got the wave!!!
[10:23:15 PM] Friend: and with a brush motor
[10:23:17 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:23:38 PM] Friend.: now im not as stupid as you probably thought i was before this eh
[10:23:47 PM] mbrownn1: I think you need to talk to him
[10:25:47 PM] Friend.: you should comment on that video telling him i shared this wave form and that source charging effect what...about a month ago?
[10:25:52 PM] Friend.: tell em...

Its true he has it, he sent me a video of it some time ago. you guys need to talk

[erfinder]

This video is just a video to show some observations I made, I misspoke a
couple of times but the circuit drawing is there and the circuit under operation.
Right at the end I included a shot of the waveform from a generator coil held
near the rotor on the motor, the wave form appears as it does because the
rotor magnets are too far apart or too small, when I added another magnet
between the existing magnets the wave form became a nice sine wave.

As for the coil recovery it seems that when accelerating the recovery power is
negative but when the rotor is loaded the rotor slows the input power increases
and so does recovery, hardly useful really unless the reduction in shaft power is
required, this particular motor could probably be controlled better by just varying the voltage.

At this point I am more interested in generating than recovery from the prime mover.

Coil Recovery - YouTube

Cheers

Hello Farmhand,

I got very excited when I saw the waveform you had in the last 10 seconds of your video. I am generating that same wave form in my machine. Can you discuss how you are producing this wave form? I have been producing this wave for a few months now and have been experiencing some things that I cannot fully explain. Here is a link to the video I made to show you that I am producing this wave. This is the same waveform that John Bedini associated with the G-Field generator.

G-Field Generator Waveform - YouTube

Would be great if you could shed a little light on how you are setup, as can be seen in my video, I have a really large pulse motor, but after seeing your video and the motor you are using, you really have my attention! I am looking for a shunt wound motor...

Any input from you in this regard would be awesome.


Regards

[mbrownn]

The AC motors are probably induction motors and don't have magnets inside them. It is the magnetic field moving past the wire coils that generates electricity.
Try a conventional (one with brushes) DC motor. A good one for your application would be a motor out of an automobile. You may be able to get one cheaply from an auto wreckers. A motor from a toy would also work, but these are much smaller capacity. They may be enough for a light bulb though.

I think the motors of farmhand and my friend are very different but that waveform has special significance with bedinis G field generator and the Kromray converter

[Farmhand]

Hello Farmhand,

I got very excited when I saw the waveform you had in the last 10 seconds of your video. I am generating that same wave form in my machine. Can you discuss how you are producing this wave form? I have been producing this wave for a few months now and have been experiencing some things that I cannot fully explain. Here is a link to the video I made to show you that I am producing this wave. This is the same waveform that John Bedini associated with the G-Field generator.

G-Field Generator Waveform - YouTube

Would be great if you could shed a little light on how you are setup, as can be seen in my video, I have a really large pulse motor, but after seeing your video and the motor you are using, you really have my attention! I am looking for a shunt wound motor...

Any input from you in this regard would be awesome.


Regards

Hi erfinder, Yes you have exactly the same waveform, I did realize the
significance of it that's why I included it. I am happy to share what I did, but
it was either blind luck or just my need to have everything adjustable that led
to it being produced. However I think I discovered at least one way to
produce it with different coils, it seems to be the rotor magnet spacing being
a certain distance apart possibly the size/strength of the magnets themselves
could also be a factor. When I added more magnets in the spaces between
the eight in the video the waveform changed to a nice sine wave which made
me think the magnet spacing is the cause of it. Are your rotor magnets poles
vertical, or radial ?

Here's another video showing a bit more the rotor and such.
double wave - YouTube

I haven't got far yet still planning the build, the rotor's not balanced yet, it's made
from a nylon (I think) cutting board, bolted to a stainless steel hub, the
magnets are 6mm x 6mm cylinder neo magnets, smaller than the core I used
but the same wave form comes from a coil with a 8 mm core as well, I was
just holding the coil there to see what it would show, a slow and curious
experimenter I am. I often get sidetracked so I have to try to disregard some
interesting looking things because I would never get anything much done
otherwise. Anyway the same waveform came from two very different coils so
it must be in the rotor layout or magnets. The video coil is steel core of Gal
fencing wire stuck in a trifilar series connected coil 61 mH. The other coil I
tried was a neatly wound inductor on a iron powder core 264 uH same wave form.

I am interested to hear of anything you have and unlike what many might say
I can be very open minded. You can PM me or Email me if you like.

Unfortunately it will be a while before I am setup to test anything, I'm trying
to organize a more solid platform to spin the rotor with, when I'm happy with
the way the rotor spins I'll use "C" shaped generator cores, the cutting board
rotor's are fairly easy to make, easy material to work with.

Cheers

[mbrownn]

cutting boards are high density polyethylene.

I built a similar motor once but could not get it to run right, too much cogging trying to run it on a Bedini circuit.

[mbrownn]

Ahhh you are talking about the generator and not the motor, sorry me stupid.

[erfinder]

Hi erfinder, Yes you have exactly the same waveform, I did realize the
significance of it that's why I included it. I am happy to share what I did, but
it was either blind luck or just my need to have everything adjustable that led
to it being produced. However I think I discovered at least one way to
produce it with different coils, it seems to be the rotor magnet spacing being
a certain distance apart possibly the size/strength of the magnets themselves
could also be a factor. When I added more magnets in the spaces between
the eight in the video the waveform changed to a nice sine wave which made
me think the magnet spacing is the cause of it. Are your rotor magnets poles
vertical, or radial ?

Here's another video showing a bit more the rotor and such.
double wave - YouTube

I haven't got far yet still planning the build, the rotor's not balanced yet, it's made
from a nylon (I think) cutting board, bolted to a stainless steel hub, the
magnets are 6mm x 6mm cylinder neo magnets, smaller than the core I used
but the same wave form comes from a coil with a 8 mm core as well, I was
just holding the coil there to see what it would show, a slow and curious
experimenter I am. I often get sidetracked so I have to try to disregard some
interesting looking things because I would never get anything much done
otherwise. Anyway the same waveform came from two very different coils so
it must be in the rotor layout or magnets. The video coil is steel core of Gal
fencing wire stuck in a trifilar series connected coil 61 mH. The other coil I
tried was a neatly wound inductor on a iron powder core 264 uH same wave form.

I am interested to hear of anything you have and unlike what many might say
I can be very open minded. You can PM me or Email me if you like.

Unfortunately it will be a while before I am setup to test anything, I'm trying
to organize a more solid platform to spin the rotor with, when I'm happy with
the way the rotor spins I'll use "C" shaped generator cores, the cutting board
rotor's are fairly easy to make, easy material to work with.

Cheers

Hey Farmhand,

One quick question. In this generator which is producing this wave, how are your coils connected? You say series, but there are different variations on series connections.....Just asking if your "series" configuration is standard series or something exotic.

Regards


edit...

Reread your post, and finished the video....single trifilar, series connected...very very interesting...it appears that your method for producing this wave is indeed different from how I am producing it.

As your system isn't setup to perform tests yet, I am wondering how much I should say about my configuration. I don't want anything I post and possibly show you to influence any tests you may not have even thought of preforming yet.....There are a few things that I am experiencing that I want to see if you experience with your setup, but I don't want to mention these effects as you would look for them, I would prefer you to test as you have been and will continue, and see what manifests. Since there is more than one way to get the wave, there may be other effects associated with it that I have not experienced. Please advise as to how we should proceed.....

Regards

[Farmhand]

The 61 mH trifilar coil is just connected like a Tesla bifilar serial connected flat
spiral, in that the windings are parallel and the negative of one is connected to
the positive of the next. The other coil is a single winding and produced the
same waveform. Nothing exotic.

Looking at the wave form it appears as though as the magnet is sweeping the
core the voltage rises then starts to fall like normal but then rises again
maybe from a field collapse, before falling right off, with the magnets closer
there may not be enough time for the collapse before the opposite pole of the
next magnet
forces the wave form down. It would appear to be a sine wave with an added
peak somehow. That would mean the magnetic polarity is not forced to change.
Maybe. Kind of quasi resonant. It is interesting and I think it requires more
investigation, I'll ask a very knowledgeable individual what he thinks about it
and see what his evaluation is.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Here's a PDF/paper from Kromrey.

Free Cloud Storage - MediaFire

He's talking a lot of gravity and stuff, interesting, I post the link before i finished reading.

Cheers