Advanced Type Of Ram Pump

[Gdez]

hydrautomat in action

Hydrautomat In Operation - YouTube

Looks maybe easier then I thought!

[Gdez]

Looks easier then I thought, ...

After seeing bluejersey112's replication, I thought it was time for me to slap one of these together. I had a lot of cpvc fittings laying around, but found out quickly I would need many more couplings. I had lots of leaks with my homemade gaskets and ended up having to use a sealant. I went for a one stage setup and I am wondering if that may be part of the problem with the operation. After studying the patents, Artoj's work and Blue Jersey112's videos, I thought I had this one licked. I picked all one gallon sized containers, because the picture of the original device seemed to have all the same sized cylinders. While I have been able to move a little bit of water and air around, my replication has not been working very well. I definitely need more head pressure, which sucks because I am trying to work with a 2'0" differential. That works for me with the stream I have. You can see that I am having some of the same stalling problems as blue jersey112 was having. . i made a float type vacuum breaker that is shown at the end of the video, but it was unsuccessfull, as the float could not break the lock of the vacuum in the siphon. You can see that when I raise and lower the siphon the flow immediantly gets airlocked.
I thought that bluejersey112 was adding too many check valves but after watching air shoot back through the traps, I saw why he added them.
This is a very interesting project and If I can get it working properly, I think it will be a winner.
I asked the question earlier about effieciancy compared to ram pumps, and the answer I found in the patent( OR one of the rex research news articles) was claimed to be ...80 percent! That would be quite an improvement over the basic ram.
More to come..
Greg
Hydrautomat rep 1 - YouTube

[moflint]

A closed loop?

Thanks for your vid Gdez. The concept is interesting, and I can't see why this system could not be close-looped if it were placed inside a tank instead of an moving source of water.

1) A turbine between the top container and the water level
2) the tank water level being raised as the top container is emptied
3) the central "always full" tank being filled by overflow from 2)

But could it be practical?

The prototype reported at 17 Jul 1923 - WATER-RAISING. THE HYDRAUTOMAT. AN IMPORTANT INV... was 3 feet wide by 8 feet high and had a lifting capacity of 70,000 gallons a day. Let's double that to a machine 16 feet high with a capacity to 140,000 gallons a day - my rough estimate is maybe 50w of power, based on water turbine power conversions at Power calculations for Pelton turbines.

I have no experience of hydro or turbines so I might be missing something rather fundamental!

[Gdez]

Turbine/ closed loop idea

@Moflint,
I have had similar ideas also. The figures for microhydro can be figured out easily on some easy to find webpages. The real question seems to be,"how many times you can multiply that 50w, after raising the water to a particular height? If the initial water raising is 80% effieciant , and you could make a chain of even simple waterwheels, maybe you could really do something.
This was another interesting idea to throw in the mix, which goes with the idea of recyling the falling water on it's way down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcf5bGglRXg

Maybe even add some other ideas into the mix.
The posibilities seem endless, but first I
will try to get the hydrautomat working properly.

I do feel that from my observations that total volume of all vessels and piping would be critical. Hi lo differential also is very important. My inlet stop valve and vacuum/float stop valve were too crudely constructed to be really effective.

I am already working on better valves and layout, and I feel the basic schematic in the patent doesn't tell the whole story here.
BlueJersey112 made it actually much easier to understand then the patent. I highly suggest watching his videoes to really understand this.
Cheers all,
Greg

[moflint]

Greg,

That video is definitely very interesting. I wonder how much pressure is needed to get the oscillation effect working. They were using mains pressure which can be anywhere from 1 bar to 7 bar. (If they mentioned the amount of pressure I must have missed that.) You need about 30 foot of head for 1 bar of pressure. Also, does the oscillation effect produce more gain than simple water wheel generator? I suspect it does.

Good luck with your experiments, and thanks for keep us posted!

Mark.

[Gdez]

Pulsitile flow turbine/pump

@ moflint,
I made a small one out of rubber bands, a ziploc baggie, and a pipe nipple with some fittings. I dumped the water in, instead of hooking directly to the main to answer the very question you are asking and found that the oscillating effect started working immediately. That is something that I really liked about it.
The question I still have is how much head does this device really need to be effective. If you look when he attaches the metal pipe, it seems to have much more force then with just the rubber tubing. Is it the length of the pipe or weight of the pipe? If it's the weight, then this could be an excellent low head turbine/pump (2'0" or .66m is what would work for me). Also If I couldn't make it work without the longer pipe, I could still use a hydrautomat, ram pump, spiral pump, or pulser pump to get the water up enough to make this work.
If I am only trying to pump water up 6 or 7 ft., I can get a much greater volume of water then say to pump it up a hill 50', which is really what I would like.
I started building one of these using one inch tubing, but I slipped with the razor knife and ruined the tractor tire I was going to use as the bladder. I haven't messed with it since.
These are relatively easy to build but I wonder about replacing the bladder with some type of check valve.

Hydrautomat Progress: None

While I was trying to improve the hydrautomat project, I saw that while I have a good understanding of how it works, building it is a little more complicated.
I am taking a step back to look at the charts that Artoj put in his post above to examine pipe and chamber sizing. I think something is missing in the patent about the closing(of the inlet valve) and opening of the siphon valve also. I have thought about some clever designs to do this, but I think that it should be as simple as possible. An interesting idea I had was to use some levered floats to get the oscillating going faster more like the frequency of a ram pump, then what you would see in bluejerseys112's videos.
While I was experimenting, I decided build a small pulser pump, recommended to me by BlueJersey112(yt). I used 1/2 inch pipe and some clear tubing and I was able to get air sucking into the piping. Definitly an interesting pump! I was not able to get water up the tube but I think that it did well taking the air in. Just a Little more reading and possibly add a venturi, to suck in air. (Search Ragged Chutes to get a better idea of what this is( basicaslly a trompe))
bad news:I was going to do a vid, but the wife needed to do laundry. The wife really doesn't seem to like the hydrautomat and pulser pump in her laundry area.
Good news: If I keep working on the hydrautomat in the wifes laundry area, I will soon be sleeping in the basement and I'll have plenty of time to think about it.
I'll post link to pulser pump.(Brian White, i think)
Greg

[Gdez]

New Stuff

More on the russian pump@

Valentin KUTIENKOV / Viatcheslav MARUKHIN [ MAROUKHINE ] Ram Pump -- Allegedly self-sustaining operation

New hydrautomat vids from Bluejersey112 @

BlueJersey112 - YouTube

My hydrautomat progress:
I figured from bj122's video's that my traps were too short. duh!! I should have guessed that just from the patent diagram. Also, I would like to add the checkvalves were he does also, it seems to make sense. His shutoff valve is very clever also, but I am trying to design one that can work off 2.5' ft differential,and also have all the components inside the operating tank. So I'll have to figure out how to make that happen. I already have idea's forming about a 10" dia pipe, about 5 ft long.(Because thats what I have to work with.) I have flanges,bolts and blinds also.

Russian pump;
After looking at Rex researchs new stuff on this, I Have to recall doing a small mock up with two foot valves. (1" pipe). I built it similar to a ram pump with a small ballon as a diaphram,to have an air charge. I simulated a three ft. head, with no positive results, and just figured it was a failed experiment. I forgot that when I gave it mains pressure (Aproxx 30 -50 psi), the valves "fluttered". or should I say -- oscillated against each other. That is probably the key to this whole device. The green device in the video I am somewhat skeptical of, espeascially since it's next to a pack of cheap smokes, but the huge stainless steel model makes you take a second look.
i haven't had time to really go over it yet.
More soon, Greg

[Gdez]

Pulser pump/Hydrautomat

Happy Holidays everyone,
While working on a new hydrautomat design, I decided to play around with the pulser pump. It is said by Brian white that this pump is the easiest to build and it probably is, as far as construction.
While my first model was very crude and I was able to pull air into the separation chamber, It wouldn't pump air and water up the small tube.
I did some more reading and watched some more vids, and decided to build a slightly larger model to play around in the stream with.

Here are 2 vids of my progress of the pulser pump and my site survey of the stream.

water level Pulser pump - YouTube

water level Pulser pump 2 - YouTube

Today I hope to finish my hydro site survey by determining flow and hopefully get the pulser pump working by increasing the flow and putting the seperation chamber deeper into the creek.

Wikipedia has a page with more info and links on the pulser pump;
Pulser pump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The hyrautomat has a feature that deals with the intake of air that happens (as in the pulser pump), but the extra air is considered as a nuisance to the operation to the hydrautomat, and expelled via check valve.
These two pumps have the similarity though of using the water as a piston, just in a different way.
Hopefully more to come later today.
Greg
also this is a good pdf: http://www.instructables.com/files/o...V7HHS9LEIB.pdf

[moflint]

You might be interested in this...

I know this is an old thread but you guys might be interested in looking at a water buoyancy/gravity wheel that looks promising. A prototype was built in the early '80s that put out around 35 hp. Looks not too hard to build.

George Wiseman has a free eBook to download from here Ezekiel's Wheel | www.eagle-research.com and there's a discussion on his forum at Ezekiel's Wheel Concept | www.eagle-research.com.