Tesla Stinging Impulse Rays

[mikrovolt]

In discussing Tesla stinging that happened only when power to Edison's generators was turned on
the later with quenched spark gaps with various coil schemes including funnel shaped coil.
Some successful drivers are both tube and semiconductor types.

The sine wave is a good place to start. The wave shaping should be done in stages stepping up and filtering.
The asymptotic elliptical as a goal with minimal negative. The final amp to the final compression stage would be ideal
however the ugly wave barely resembling the ideal is getting good results on stinging wave
from at least 6 different methods. I recall the cool blue incandescent light that attracts copper strip being
thermodynamically strange has not been reproduced that I am aware of.

The dielectric itself has no effect on the polarization of the electrostatic field outside capacitors boundary.
the conductors do and there are advantages of keeping the magnetic at one end of the dipole.
A design consideration using coax is what configuration gives the field geometry that you need.
It is not like building an ion thruster where the ions are accelerated by passing thru electrified grids.

I am reminded of the cloud chamber for seeing cosmic trails. The right combination of
these waves when tuned may increase or change the direction of these trails.
My guess is conventional waves are not as effective. The ground side or reflection should not be ignored.
Theoretically if you get an increase in the cloud trails or even a change in direction then there is a basis
for improving the design.

[thx1138]

It would be nice to get back on topic here and actually produce an effect!

Blasting ions through glass is not really a shocker as the semiconductor industry uses a similiar high voltage acceleration process for ion implantation, the depth of implantation being proportional to voltage/velocity.

My question is how did Le Bon operate the Oudin Coil to create a positive only discharge?

My question is, knowing that the "stinging rays" are ionizing radiation, why would anyone want to feel them?

Use them? Sure, with proper shielding. Feel them? I don't think so.

[OrionLightShip]

My question is, knowing that the "stinging rays" are ionizing radiation, why would anyone want to feel them?

Use them? Sure, with proper shielding. Feel them? I don't think so.

There has not been one single post by anyone, certainly not me, that would suggest anyone would want to "feel them".

My latest question is only about the method by which Le Bon created a unipolar discharge. Le Bon's method may or may not correlate with Tesla's Stinging Rays.

[genessc]

Maybe thats the wrong question to ask. The oudin coil will generate a hv ac output with relatively large Currents available... Thus unless the oudin coil was somehow grounded mid point to cause the local voltages on it to become relative to the earths ambient voltage, All the voltage on the oudin output would be positive... the whole oscillation would be positive from its peak to its minimum...

Theres a physiognomy book by Strong that talks about high voltage high frequency current devices... Link here:

https://archive.org/details/39002010252998.med.yale.edu

its a good read and gets one up on some of the other type drivers that existed in parallel during Le Bons time. One of my favorites is the d'arsonval type driver... just depends what ones after I suppose.

It will show you that the tesla versions of the driver were generally polarizing the drive coil to one polarity before the spark gap would fire and neutralize the charged state of the primary... Darsonval however sets up so that the primary is never being "polarized" by either side... it can't be with how he sets it up... however those tensions are there and present and have an effect. I use d'arsonval on my bellerian apparatus and the ion chair... I see it as a balanced driver. (versus being a polar driver)

Anyways maybe thats helpful. Le Bons books on evolution of matter and energy are pretty good reads huh... he talks a bit about synthetic radioactivity... but not in enough detail to be able to use a hvdc source to then amplify some specimens own attributes into radiating various types of rays...

Anywho, Cheers!
Gene

There has not been one single post by anyone, certainly not me, that would suggest anyone would want to "feel them".

My latest question is only about the method by which Le Bon created a unipolar discharge. Le Bon's method may or may not correlate with Tesla's Stinging Rays.

[OrionLightShip]

Maybe thats the wrong question to ask. The oudin coil will generate a hv ac output with relatively large Currents available... Thus unless the oudin coil was somehow grounded mid point to cause the local voltages on it to become relative to the earths ambient voltage, All the voltage on the oudin output would be positive... the whole oscillation would be positive from its peak to its minimum...

Theres a physiognomy book by Strong that talks about high voltage high frequency current devices... Link here:

https://archive.org/details/39002010252998.med.yale.edu

its a good read and gets one up on some of the other type drivers that existed in parallel during Le Bons time. One of my favorites is the d'arsonval type driver... just depends what ones after I suppose.

It will show you that the tesla versions of the driver were generally polarizing the drive coil to one polarity before the spark gap would fire and neutralize the charged state of the primary... Darsonval however sets up so that the primary is never being "polarized" by either side... it can't be with how he sets it up... however those tensions are there and present and have an effect. I use d'arsonval on my bellerian apparatus and the ion chair... I see it as a balanced driver. (versus being a polar driver)

Anyways maybe thats helpful. Le Bons books on evolution of matter and energy are pretty good reads huh... he talks a bit about synthetic radioactivity... but not in enough detail to be able to use a hvdc source to then amplify some specimens own attributes into radiating various types of rays...

Anywho, Cheers!
Gene

Thank you for your input. I will try to read your reference later today. I need to get things straight in my head as far as grounding and biasing go. Certainly just because you have oscillations you don't necessary have negative current (with relation to earth ground). Just need a rubber mallet to get this issue of biasing figured out. I work better with pictures...lol.

Normally, I am able to visualize most concepts but this one I have difficulty with.

Maybe after I finish the project I'm on, I need to just break down and build a coil, connect it to my Wimshurst D'Asonval style see what I can come up with, polarity wise.

I need to check a concept I read from Tesla about large diameter coils anyway.

[genessc]

Sure, you should enjoy the referenced book then as it has schematics and analogous water analogies to try and make the points more clear.

Another thing worth studying to help you with "relative potentials" is the tesla switch... One can format a context of potentials however they want once they start down that path... Shows you that current flows between two +'s just as easy as it can flow between two -'s... Just gotta order the potentials correctly.

Good luck!
Gene

Thank you for your input. I will try to read your reference later today. I need to get things straight in my head as far as grounding and biasing go. Certainly just because you have oscillations you don't necessary have negative current (with relation to earth ground). Just need a rubber mallet to get this issue of biasing figured out. I work better with pictures...lol.

Normally, I am able to visualize most concepts but this one I have difficulty with.

Maybe after I finish the project I'm on, I need to just break down and build a coil, connect it to my Wimshurst D'Asonval style see what I can come up with, polarity wise.

I need to check a concept I read from Tesla about large diameter coils anyway.

[OrionLightShip]

Sure, you should enjoy the referenced book then as it has schematics and analogous water analogies to try and make the points more clear.

Another thing worth studying to help you with "relative potentials" is the tesla switch... One can format a context of potentials however they want once they start down that path... Shows you that current flows between two +'s just as easy as it can flow between two -'s... Just gotta order the potentials correctly.

Good luck!
Gene

Busy today with my Mom's taxes but I downloaded the book and looked at the table of contents.... awesome find. Thank you!

[kenssurplus]

Hey Gene! Good to see you posting! Brings back more enthusiasm for building stuff.

So, if we go on the hypothesis that the stinging impulse rays are an ionising ray like a gamma or cosmic ray, then the source would then necessarily be a nuclear event. If it is, then any extra power or phenomena could be attributed to that type of event, similar to what we see in the cold fusion experiments.

I have stuck my nose into some of that here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/water-...tion-test.html

There are some reports of power production in or from the plasma arc itself. I think it might have been J.L. Naudin reporting this. Don't have a link at the moment.

[genessc]

Right on, Glad to catch your eye.

For it to be an ionizing radiation, it must be that thing thats emitting the rays is polarized to an opposing polarity as that of ones body. Otherwise the rays wouldn't be drawn to the body eh?

Do we feel it when we get X-rayed by X-ray machines? Thats ionizing radiation and I've never felt an X-ray. I suspect the vassilitos book, to which this quote is drawn from, is taking literary license. Meaning it doesn't make sense that such a radiation might exist... (at least not in the context as laid out by Gerry in that portion of the book, where the thing emitting these rays in "all directions" (which is an assumption since one is not localized in all directions and unless one sets up measuring apparatus to verify the claim of the 360 directionality, it can just be assumed a claim that was never able to be verified, so more an assertion than a fact) was occuring on Huge DC Lines when the generators were being shorted into the carrier wires, which was emitting this radiation only at the time of switch closure or potentially just before it closed... implying potential reverse induced ionization of the carrier wires just prior to that connection being made, which maybe inverted to create the pulse Tesla was claimed by vassilitos as measuring/feeling objectively.

I guess I should go recrack that book and see if it noted the generator sides line potential in accordance to how big the conduction carrier wiring was laid out... no doubt total masses and potentials involved including the locality over which such was spread for both "sides" of this context must contribute to the resulting effect.

You read about the memristor? its sorta like a device that usage over time causes to go into a constant charged state due its hooks into an atom per atom that then has an ion component which ends up storing the charge even when power to the lines been shutoff.. so its ready to carry the same currents, presumably without the affect of a Time Constant having to apply eh?

Anyways I'm playing with the 50kvdc stuff in the garage with the ion chair. I don't feel it when that 50kvdc discharges thru or without a primary coil...

Have you ever felt anything from any of the devices you built?

I'd note I felt a heating effect in my hand when I got it close to a couple bedini devices I'd built but it wasn't consistent or reproducible so never was able to hone in on what was inducing that effect... prolly just local magnetic noise impacting my flesh causing that heating now that I think about it... they were small diameter rotors that noted that heating... the bigger ones never really did...

Not sure if thats helpful, but thats what your comments made me think about so wanted to share.

I'll go check out your link as well. I read the jln report on those experiments a few years ago but haven't been back recently. That LENR thing which has the Athanor version out there seems like it might be the way to go for a heat source of ou... input in watts, output in calories... presumably applied to a close looped steam cycle to drive a generator or whatever to then produce the electric... have gathered some parts for that but not the vessels to contain it all since its under pressure with hydrogen gas in there... stuff to do huh.

Take it easy man!
Gene

Hey Gene! Good to see you posting! Brings back more enthusiasm for building stuff.

So, if we go on the hypothesis that the stinging impulse rays are an ionising ray like a gamma or cosmic ray, then the source would then necessarily be a nuclear event. If it is, then any extra power or phenomena could be attributed to that type of event, similar to what we see in the cold fusion experiments.

I have stuck my nose into some of that here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/water-...tion-test.html

There are some reports of power production in or from the plasma arc itself. I think it might have been J.L. Naudin reporting this. Don't have a link at the moment.

[kenssurplus]

For it to be an ionizing radiation, it must be that thing thats emitting the rays is polarized to an opposing polarity as that of ones body. Otherwise the rays wouldn't be drawn to the body eh?

Do we feel it when we get X-rayed by X-ray machines? Thats ionizing radiation and I've never felt an X-ray. I suspect the vassilitos book, to which this quote is drawn from, is taking literary license. Meaning it doesn't make sense that such a radiation might exist... (at least not in the context as laid out by Gerry in that portion of the book, where the thing emitting these rays in "all directions" (which is an assumption since one is not localized in all directions and unless one sets up measuring apparatus to verify the claim of the 360 directionality, it can just be assumed a claim that was never able to be verified, so more an assertion than a fact) was occuring on Huge DC Lines when the generators were being shorted into the carrier wires, which was emitting this radiation only at the time of switch closure or potentially just before it closed... implying potential reverse induced ionization of the carrier wires just prior to that connection being made, which maybe inverted to create the pulse Tesla was claimed by vassilitos as measuring/feeling objectively.

Hey Gene, there is one other possibility that we have overlooked or omitted.
This part I am really stretching the limits of my knowledge here so if it is completely off, then please corect me. I don't know how anti-matter is created, but it is supposed to "anihilate" itself in a burst of energy in contact with normal matter. I don't think that would account for the feeling of entry and exit on opposite sides of the body though unless it were a beam or stream of anti-matter.

Have you ever felt anything from any of the devices you built?

Well, I have received a nasty shock here and there as well as been too close to the mechanical whirly parts.
I do seem to recall a vibration or buzzing but didn't think it worthy of note to remember when or where or what I was working on that caused it.

[kenssurplus]

link to J.L. Naudins A.P.E.

Oh, here is the link to JLN's power production from the plasma:

Electrical power from the plasma ? by JL Naudin

This setup uses the negative conductance property of the plasma during a high voltage electrolysis process to build up a negative resistance oscillator which is able to light an incandescent lamp.

This being the statement I recalled:

Comments from Jean-Louis Naudin : As you may notice through all the experiments presented in this web site, the APE (aka CFR) design is very interesting because it is able to produce an useable electrical power and a great amount of excess heat from the plasma discharge.

[genessc]

Yeah I dunno man. It takes alot of energy and special context to be able to try and create or manipulate anti-matter... I guess it could be possible just cuz I don't know enough to say it would be impossible...

For the water arc thing you built, how is the energy supposed to show as OU? is it thermal output primarily? does it get hot enough to boil water into steam? if so it might be used as the heat source... seems that was always what Walter Russell was on about... that we were doing things backwards by Not using the heating effect of the EM on lump iron, instead of using laminates to try and reduce that heating by forcing less total mass available for the internalized eddy currents to produce their heat within...

So it seems like we really need to look into CAUSING heat with whatever we build and then use the heat to run a closed cycle steam generator or something like that maybe.

Reminds me of Russells optical dynamo... which he said was to Create very intense heating focused at its central point which used an asymetric shaped lump iron element... allowing the shape to help form the eddies produced inside of it... (like using a sqaure bar, versus like an steel Egg which would of its own shape encourage the flows within it to stay within it due the lack of sharp edges eh?)

Anywho... just another angle to look at it from. Take care Ken!

Gene

Hey Gene, there is one other possibility that we have overlooked or omitted.
This part I am really stretching the limits of my knowledge here so if it is completely off, then please corect me. I don't know how anti-matter is created, but it is supposed to "anihilate" itself in a burst of energy in contact with normal matter. I don't think that would account for the feeling of entry and exit on opposite sides of the body though unless it were a beam or stream of anti-matter.



Well, I have received a nasty shock here and there as well as been too close to the mechanical whirly parts.
I do seem to recall a vibration or buzzing but didn't think it worthy of note to remember when or where or what I was working on that caused it.

[genessc]

Right on man, thanks!

Its curious that what makes the thing asymetric is how the electrodes are inserted in the two matrices localized in the beaker, you got one deeply immersed in water and only a little out the top, and the second presumably same size electrode is then only dipped into the water a little but then held the rest in the gas matrix of the atmo in the top half of the beaker.

The charge must be polarizing both matrices in such a way to produce the discharge like that... so it might be both the electrodes and the air and water matrices being asymetric produces the asymetric result. symmetrically forcing the immersion might do what to the setup?

The Asymmetrical Plasma Electrolysis (APE) experiment by JL Naudin

Test setup 2 sorta notes the skew too... you see that it works best with negative on the mostly Air immersed rod, and positive on the water immersed rod... and to me that makes sense....

The negative rod in air is then in its "element" in relation to the positive rod then being in the water, which in local context is the positives element... as the air is the radiated form and the water is the contracted form... so we are further biasing the existing differential of potential when that APE setup gets wired properly, versus when thats reversed and little effect is noted eh?

I wonder what happens if you change the gas to some other gas besides atmo... maybe like funneling water vapor from a humidifier into the top half of the beaker... I wonder if that would increase or decrease the output noted... might decrease it since then the air matrix is seeded with a vapor more like the water condensed below reducing the local potential difference maybe... so something more dry as the gas and not a water vapor base maybe...

Curious stuff. Thanks for the link!
Gene

Oh, here is the link to JLN's power production from the plasma:

Electrical power from the plasma ? by JL Naudin



This being the statement I recalled:

[kenssurplus]

Yeah I dunno man. It takes alot of energy and special context to be able to try and create or manipulate anti-matter... I guess it could be possible just cuz I don't know enough to say it would be impossible...
.....

Gene

Well, didn't Tesla say he was operating in the millions of horsepower?

A large Tesla coil of more modern design can operate at very high peak power levels, up to many megawatts (a million watts; hundreds of thousands of horsepower).

I don't know how much energy is required to make anti-matter, but if small scale cold fusion experiments are creating or transmuting new materials with regularity, then a high powered device such as tesla's ought to do something really impressive, even if its just blasting through the water vapor in the air.

[thx1138]

Well, didn't Tesla say he was operating in the millions of horsepower?


I don't know how much energy is required to make anti-matter, but if small scale cold fusion experiments are creating or transmuting new materials with regularity, then a high powered device such as tesla's ought to do something really impressive, even if its just blasting through the water vapor in the air.

I don't recall Tesla saying anything about millions of horsepower. I do recall him stating he used millions of volts, up to around 50 million volts.

As far as I know the only place that has recorded antimatter is the CERN collider. It lasted for a minsicule amount of time but apparently long enough to be recorded. Any place where antimatter exists, by definition, must be void of any matter because they annihilate on contact. So that's not going to happen in any circumstance we can create. Even a plasma is still matter - the 4th state of matter.