My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Maybe Site is down?

Yep it is blocked:

"The action that you were trying to perform has failed."

Regards, Bert.

Thanks Bert!

Maybe the whole site is down?

It could be...I will try later on

However...if all pictures I have uploaded start "vanishing" here...then...we lost it....but don't panic...I have them all

Thanks


Ufopolitics

[pmazz850]

Thanks Bert!

Maybe the whole site is down?

It could be...I will try later on

However...if all pictures I have uploaded start "vanishing" here...then...we lost it....but don't panic...I have them all

Thanks


Ufopolitics

Hi,
I was able to get into your photobucket.
Regards
pmazz.

[bbem]

My PhotobuckeT Account has been blocked..

Yup, the site is up again.
I can see the pictures.

Regards Bert

[bbem]

Torqmaster alike motor

Hello UFO,
I have found two scrap DC motors with 12 pole rotors.
Rotor diameter 38mm and length rotor 55mm.
Read you suggested to use 18 awg wire (21 ohm per 1 km).
This means, for getting 1 ohm per coil(pair) I need a wire of 48 meter.
I guess this isn't feasible.

Ufo, what is a feasible wire size for this type of rotor?

Regards, Bert

ps. My plan is to use this setup:
ASYMM_12_P_12_COMM_90_TURN picture by ufopolitics - Photobucket

[Ufopolitics]

Hello UFO,
I have found two scrap DC motors with 12 pole rotors.
Rotor diameter 38mm and length rotor 55mm.
Read you suggested to use 18 awg wire (21 ohm per 1 km).
This means, for getting 1 ohm per coil(pair) I need a wire of 48 meter.
I guess this isn't feasible.

Ufo, what is a feasible wire size for this type of rotor?

Regards, Bert

ps. My plan is to use this setup:
ASYMM_12_P_12_COMM_90_TURN picture by ufopolitics - Photobucket

Hello Bbem,

Of course it is not feasible ...you have a 1.5 Inch diameter motor ...where so far we have been using 30/26/23 gauge wire...
I have recommended 18 awg on larger size motors Bert...I have used it on my BOSCH Motor...
Also and AGAIN, the One (1) Ohm is a MINIMUM REQUIREMENT NOT A MAXIMUM...meaning you could go to two ohms per pair or more...

I would use in your motor a 23 or a 26 awg, now it also depends on what power source you are going to use.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great!!

Thanks for the great vids and wisdom,
I watched all the youtube vids and now understand. I have several motors, small 5 pole (wiring now), 7-12 pole motors, starter/gen from golf cart, old generators (several), electric wheelchair wheels three phase types, lots of time, a student's eager heart and thanks to great teachers here like you, I should get much accomplished.

The more I learn the more I find I don't know.
wantomake

@pmazz,
Thanks,
After a study of the vids I see what you're saying.

Hey Wantomake,

Then you ... "Willgettomake"...
Now the list you have mentioned...you could erase the Starter/Generator from Golfcart...no good IF they have very narrow slots-poles that just allow for one thick gauge wire to pass through...I also have them...
Now related to Generator (Heads) that is awesome...because in a near future we will be turning them on...faster and STRONGER (HP/TORQUE Wise) than a Gas Engine would......SO FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS FOR THE RIDE...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Gints]

Ufopolitics Asymmetric Motor Torgue Test 2 - PWM Feed

Hi, Ufopolitics,

Here will be another attempt to collect the figures for your motor torgue and efficiency calculations.

Video will be available in 60min..... Ufopolitics Asymmetric Motor Torgue Test 2 - PWM Feed - YouTube

Best regards.

[wonza]

Hi, Ufopolitics,

Here will be another attempt to collect the figures for your motor torgue and efficiency calculations.

Video will be available in 60min..... Ufopolitics Asymmetric Motor Torgue Test 2 - PWM Feed - YouTube

Best regards.

Great quality video, thanks Gints!

[wantomake]

Thanks

Thanks for the good news Ufopolitics,

Did get the 5 pole wound and running OK. Has 18 VDC in 22-24 VDC out. Not sure of the amp draw but does draw battery down fast due to commutator wasn't good.

Started winding 16 pole PM treadmill motor and noticed 4 ohms on upper coils and 3 ohms on smaller ones. Read #1645 Zardox says all wires must be same length. Makes sense. Balance and same resistance in each coil.

Thanks for the info of whats ahead Ufomaster,
and yes I willgettomake.

All that can slow me is life, mistakes, materials and fun. And I've all of it.

[Zardox]

Adjusting the brushes at both ends made a big difference in output, now I am ready to play.
I only wish that my shaft was a little longer so I could access the mechanical output. I will play with this for a while to see what it can do but I am hooked and think I need some bigger motors.

[Ufopolitics]

Gints Video Calculations

Hi, Ufopolitics,

Here will be another attempt to collect the figures for your motor torgue and efficiency calculations.

Video will be available in 60min..... Ufopolitics Asymmetric Motor Torgue Test 2 - PWM Feed - YouTube

Best regards.

Hello Gints,

Excellent Video, great work!

According to your data I will make the Calculations:

INPUT CALCULATIONS

Battery Start Power (No Load)=11.7 V
Output from Motor =10 V
Total Voltage Input to Motor=1.7 V
Input Amperage (during Mechanical Load)=6.0 A

Watts In= 1.7 X 6.0 A= 10.2 Watts In
1 HP=746 Watts, Then:
Horse Power In= 10.2 W/746 W=0.01367 HP In

OUTPUT CALCULATIONS

Output Speed:

770 RPM/60= 12.8333 RPS (Revolutions Per Second)
C(L) of Wheel (Meters)= 0.2826 m

Converting Meters to Foot

1 Meter=3.28084 Foot, then 0.2826/3.28084=0.9271 Foot

Then Revolutions per Foot:

12.8333 RPS X 0.9271 Feet= 11.8977 RPF (Revolutions Per Foot)

Output Force

Scale 1/0.25 Kg + Scale 2/0.5 Kg= 0.75 Kg

Convert Kg to Grams

1 Kg= 1000 Grams, Then 0.75 X 1000 = 750 Grams

Convert Grams to Pounds

1 Pound= 454 Grams, Then 750/454=1.6519 Pounds

MOTOR POWER:

Calculating Motor Power, given in Ft-Pds/Sec:

11.8977 RPF (Revolutions Per Feet) X 1.6519 Pounds=19.6538 Foot-Pounds/Seconds

Now Calculating Horse Power Out:

1 HP= 550 Foot-Pound/Seconds, Then 19.6538 Foot-Pounds/Seconds (Divided)/550 Foot-Pound/Seconds=0.03573 HP Out

CALCULATING MACHINE EFFICIENCY:

Efficiency= HP Out/HP In X 100 (%), Then 0.03573 HP Out/0.01367 HP In=2.61407 X 100= 261.40%

Efficiency=261.40%


However, this test is NOT accurate, since there are some missing parameters here...in order to make a better approach testing of My Machines.

I have used the given Battery Voltage at No Load (11.7 V), that is wrong, it should be the real V In, at Mechanical Load Momentum, which should be lower value than used.
I have used the Amperage In ONLY, because I did not have Amperage Out...

My Machines generate an Electrical Output given in Voltage and Amperage, those Parameters MUST BE Calculated as Output Value, therefore, a better approach would be to take V In/Amps In AND V Out/Amps Out, (At Exact Time of Mechanical Load) then we can calculate Watts In/Watts Out more accurately....

Machine Electrical Output (in Watts) MUST BE either deducted to INPUT POWER (Watts), or ADDED to Final MACHINE OUTPUT by converting Watts Out to Horse Power Out (HP Out)...(whichever way, will end up in exactly, same results)...


Now, Gints, may I suggest in your next Test video to consider measuring Voltage Out/ Amps Out, in order to calculate it properly.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great!!

Adjusting the brushes at both ends made a big difference in output, now I am ready to play.
I only wish that my shaft was a little longer so I could access the mechanical output. I will play with this for a while to see what it can do but I am hooked and think I need some bigger motors.

Hello Zardox!

That is great!...Now could you tell Us how much difference did it make?
We are "curious" to know how much more impressive...this is for "Your Book"...

Adjusting the timing is ESSENTIAL to achieve a better Mechanical and Electrical Output performance...and still, we could do even better timing adjustments...but would have to modify major brushes mechanisms to be able to move Input independently from Output Gates...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[MasterBlaster]

Non expert motor testing

OK I know nothing about designing motors but I am going to put an idea forward that you may shoot down as you see fit.

For testing you need a normal DC motor connected to a resistive load with the Amp and voltage meter in the right places. A switch may be added between the motor and the resistor.

Now, when the shaft of the motor is turned electrical power is presented to the load via the switch.

Couple your UFO motor shaft to drive the generator of course with another set of meters and a rev counter attached.

You could use another un-modified motor to the drive the generator for comparison.

Basically this is the outline of the testing that I am proposing. I leave the mechanical figures to those with better equipped labs.

What is wrong with my thinking?

[DadHav]

Dyno

OK I know nothing about designing motors but I am going to put an idea forward that you may shoot down as you see fit.

For testing you need a normal DC motor connected to a resistive load with the Amp and voltage meter in the right places. A switch may be added between the motor and the resistor.

Now, when the shaft of the motor is turned electrical power is presented to the load via the switch.

Couple your UFO motor shaft to drive the generator of course with another set of meters and a rev counter attached.

You could use another un-modified motor to the drive the generator for comparison.

Basically this is the outline of the testing that I am proposing. I leave the mechanical figures to those with better equipped labs.

What is wrong with my thinking?

Hello Master. Just for interest sake I've done this as an experiment and it makes a nice smooth brake for the motor under test. The parameters are a little different as I see it because you are figuring out horse power based on electrical watts rather than torque by conventional mechanical means. I could be wrong but I'm sure UFO will clarify that. I actually did almost exactly as you mentioned with two RS motors and a variable resistor as a load to the generator. I was able to go down to 1 ohm on the generator side to bring the motor side to the max current draw of 2 amps with 12 volts on the input. I could show the video but I don't think it would be a good idea. it would be a distraction. I mentioned on an earlier post this has been talked about on the LRK TorqueMax Yahoo motor building group, but they just mentioned little more than what you said. There are some other options there as well but this one and the others seem to more suited to making comparisons rather than hard accurate numbers. A comparison is easy to make without a setup. You should only have to put a modified motor in place of a standard and it should do something better with less current right?
John Hav.

[Ufopolitics]

About Testing "Machines"...

Hello to All,

The Testing We are doing here, (Gints and Turion)are completely based on Peter Lindemann's Video Secrets of Electric Motors.
They are based on Torque, Power and HP Out as also Efficiency...

Now, We do NOT need an Original Motor as long as We have their Factory Spec's available...they would say it ALL...like HP /Watts Output/ Power source and Amp Draw...

Now My Machines Output an Electrical Energy as ALSO a Mechanical Energy (and Oh Boy...is it good!)...So, We MUST (+) Add those Two Parameters at our Final Results...BEFORE...rendering Efficiency.

Is Anyone up to here in agreement with me?
If not, please feel free to "add" your points.

Hello Masterblaster,

Ok, first, I don't like to "Mix"..Witches with Princesses...

What you are saying is to attach an Original, Unmodified Motor (meaning Witch galore) to the shaft of mine...so Mine drives it as a Generator?...and later you are saying to add "another" unmodified (another Witch!) to feed from the Generating side of the First Unmodified ?...WOW!!

Now correct me if that is NOT what you are saying....but IF that is what you are saying...

Then you are you trying to burn down My Machine here?!

Why not Another UFO Motor there AS Generator...and Another UFO Motor there as LOAD... ?
Why Do I have to accept the Original MIXED UP with My Machines?...I mean, We could measure them separate as MUCH AS You guys please...BUT...NOT Mixing Bananas with Apples here...please!

Thanks


Now Dad Hav, (Man You "jump" every time testing results comes on board!...let's see How Much you will "jump" when You see my next Dyno Testing Video on My Bosch 750 Watts... )

Ok, So you wrote...

The parameters are a little different as I see it because you are figuring out horse power based on electrical watts rather than torque by conventional mechanical means. I could be wrong but I'm sure UFO will clarify that.

Dad Hav, have you seen Peter Lindemann Video?...No? Then do it...You need to learn some more...

Yes you saw it?...Then You realize Peter converts Electrical Watts Input to Horse Power...I mean, there is a CONVERSION WAY to do that...and very simple (2nd Grade... )... 1HP>>>>746 Watts....Why do you think that exist for.?..if not to "CONVERT" one to other?
There is absolutely No Difference in Both Conversions...(Electrical or Mechanical)...both ends in exactly same Parameter...HP

I was able to go down to 1 ohm on the generator side to bring the motor side to the max current draw of 2 amps with 12 volts on the input. I could show the video but I don't think it would be a good idea. it would be a distraction.

Right, in that test You "mixed Apples with Bananas"...like I wrote before here...so you are right not to bring it here...

Anyways, for all...before We move into another type of Testing...I want to conclude this Torque, Power and Efficiency the Right Way...and I want more Tests from those replicating out there...please!!

@Turion'
Dave, please, stop playing with your 3BGS...and connect back the coils you have disconnected from the Modified to perform better on your system ...and let's finish the Dyno Tests...Please!!!

Hope you've got the Digital Scales...I got them at Sports Authority...Nice Rappala Brand...just 23.99 each...



Regards to All


Ufopolitics