My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Beautiful Work!!

Hi All

I have uploaded a video of my replication motor showing it working. I've mounted it on a base just to make it easier to work with.

pic:




Video:

John_G's Asymmetric Motor Replication - YouTube

Thanks to all

Regards

John

Hello Dear John_G,


Excellent work!!, looks beautiful!!


Many thanks!!


Warm Regards dear friend!!


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

UFO
OK, but remember you invited me to.
Your Bosh motor (750W = 1hp before modification) probably has a no load current draw of about 1 Amp.
Your battery (a lipo... a very wonderful battery) first off is not the smallest made for RC models... you can get 3s lipos in 400mAh size. That aside... the one you used in the demo is a 1350mAh battery which can also be written as 1.3 amp hour (meaning the battery can provide 1.3 Amps for 1 hour). All of this means is that your battery is fully capable of powering that motor at no load for 1 hour (with out any modifications to the motor). In fact there are RC motors that are of 4hp to 5hp range that your little battery will power for a half hour or more at no load. So what is your demo videos showing is the advantage of your modification? I wanted this to be more much more than anyone else here did.

Sorry
Larry

Hello Everyone. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, a know it all, or a disbeliever but we're 5 pages into the thread now and I have to agree with Larry 100%. No one has suggested a legitimate set of tests to determine the effectiveness of this modification. Measuring a voltage increase is a good sign but it doesn't prove anything unless there are some good test procedures to find out what to expect from this modification. There are replications now but still no proper tests. No one wants to see an improved DC motor more than me and I should make this replication myself but won't until I see the first really promising test. Did anyone test and record run characteristics of the Radio Shack motor before starting? How can you do anything without a bench mark for comparison? I'll bet you could take two RS motors and connect them with a piece of rubber tubing. Run one motor with the other and make the right connection at the brushes and I think you could measure an increase of voltage. What exactly are the claims for this motor. Will it run more efficiently than a normal DC model airplane motor. Prove it with some measurements. Will this modification run as a motor generator creating over unity? Prove it with some load tests. Will it charge batteries? If it's over unity, charge a table full of depleted batteries with just a few full ones. Will it self run? Feedback the output with one of the many cap dump circuits or any other way and show a self runner. A simple increase of efficiency would be satisfying to me but the tests aren't there yet.
Don't get me wrong. I'm in full support but would like to see some good solid testing.
Kindest Regards
John H

[Netica]

ufo

I watched your video over a few times especially where you have said to look and found it hard to understand, that is why I am asking these questions.

o.k I think I understand what you are saying -

1/ That when the respective motor coil leaves the contact of brush it is charged like a capacitor and then discharges at the delivery side 180 degrees apart.
Wouldn't the speed of the rotor be of importance? because the coil would only hold that charge for a certain amount of time, the faster the better to get as much charge to delivery brushes as quick as possible.

2/ I thought that the brushes 180 degrees apart were the pick up for independently generated energy (coil passing magnets type energy) as motoring coils were powering independently of the generating side. This is then quite wrong.

Now is there at all a combination of 1/ charged coil delivery, and 2/ coil passing magnets generating energy, at output?

answering these questions will help me the best.

thanks netica

[Ufopolitics]

I Have Done That...

Just a quick thought. I describe it as a though experiment (as if I actually performed it) because that is how I 'see' it.

With just one motor at hand, can I connect the wires with just one commutator?

Suppose the wire starts 'as usual' but it ends with 2 diodes on the opposite poles (on the same commutator).

Example, the commutator has 5 poles, p1, p2, p3, p4 and p5.
I connect the wire to p1, start doing 25 rounds, flip over to the second part of the V shape and end with 2 diodes (forwarding the +, so the current runs from plus to minus) at poles 3 and 4.
And now I repeat all steps:
connect a wire to p2, wound it twice 25 times, and end with a diode to p4 and p5.
connect a wire to p3, wound it twice 25 times, and end with a diode to p5 and p1.
connect a wire to p4, wound it twice 25 times, and end with a diode to p1 and p2.
connect a wire to p5, wound it twice 25 times, and end with a diode to p2 and p3.

I am using 2 diodes, so that I am not actually connecting 2 poles, short circuiting them.

Also note that the last winding is actually half a winding more (or less), we need to end up on the side of the commutator again.

I am not much of a builder, really not. But the theory -for as far as I grabbed it- makes me think I have a way of creating a motor with only one at hand. No need to say we loose the option of the generation side, but then again, I have no idea if that is a win or a loose situation.

idea 2: could we use the anti-Lenz law (or what ever it is called) and add very thin wire on top of the other wires (shorted out) to gain more speed at no cost? (perhaps another thread for this question would be better, on the other hand maybe the idea is good enough for someone to try). No need to say this would only work on high RPM motors. Perhaps adding this as a feature might have us end up in an O.U. situation (not the main goal, because efficiency is the main goal of this thread I guess).

Deslo.

Hello Deslo,

I have done that experiment already, and I have an armature with diodes on, one single Commutator...will show pics...soon.

I did it with a wound dual stators set up...pulsing them also with oscillator-controller...

It does run...but Energy stays within the Coil Loops..."auto energizing" them, extracting minimum energy out...and armature gets excessively hot...I was trying to simplify this same process with only one Comm...Don't work as well as Dual Commutators success...

However, You get an unusual and interesting performance though...some kind of a "Delay" in Rotation, even with my pulses to Stators very low, Armature will run very fast..but not with a robust torque...

I stop working on this Model for further studying...

By the way, Diodes have to be super ultra fast switchers..and High Voltages-Amps capacity...



Thanks for your input


Regards


Ufopolitics

[larryross]

Return it Bobo it's defective... you will only void the warranty if you mess with it.

[bobo36us]

Hello Everyone. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, a know it all, or a disbeliever but we're 5 pages into the thread now and I have to agree with Larry 100%. No one has suggested a legitimate set of tests to determine the effectiveness of this modification. Measuring a voltage increase is a good sign but it doesn't prove anything unless there are some good test procedures to find out what to expect from this modification. There are replications now but still no proper tests. No one wants to see an improved DC motor more than me and I should make this replication myself but won't until I see the first really promising test. Did anyone test and record run characteristics of the Radio Shack motor before starting? How can you do anything without a bench mark for comparison? I'll bet you could take two RS motors and connect them with a piece of rubber tubing. Run one motor with the other and make the right connection at the brushes and I think you could measure an increase of voltage. What exactly are the claims for this motor. Will it run more efficiently than a normal DC model airplane motor. Prove it with some measurements. Will this modification run as a motor generator creating over unity? Prove it with some load tests. Will it charge batteries? If it's over unity, charge a table full of depleted batteries with just a few full ones. Will it self run? Feedback the output with one of the many cap dump circuits or any other way and show a self runner. A simple increase of efficiency would be satisfying to me but the tests aren't there yet.
Don't get me wrong. I'm in full support but would like to see some good solid testing.
Kindest Regards
John H

I bought this winch at Harbor Freight the other day:
9000 lb. Off-Road Vehicle Winch with Automatic Load-Holding Brake

It was the biggest piece of S**T !!!

It would not even free spin for 30 seconds without getting hot and
shutting down! I think this new way of wiring DC motors will be my
answer, and possibly save Harbor Freight from a return.

Whether or not the UFO motor self runs, I do believe that it will
not overheat and render the winch useless like it's current wiring does.

[Turion]

DadHav,
Believe me, those tests will be run. That is why I purchased several of the radio shack motors. I will have one (out of the box) one converted (from two put together) and a fourth to be used as a generator. I will use the converted and one right out of the box to run the fourth motor as a generator with a known constant load. It will be Monday before I have all my tests done, but then I will post results, including amps in, amps out voltage in, voltage out (loaded and unloaded) and rpms.

Dave

[bobo36us]

Return it Bobo it's defective... you will only void the warranty if you mess with it.

Actually, after researching a little, many DC electric winches have very short
duty cycles. I do believe the UFO winding / brush system is the answer!

I will try to build the Radio Shack motor this week, but based on UFO diagrams and explanations, I do not see how this motor can overheat.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Netica...

ufo

I watched your video over a few times especially where you have said to look and found it hard to understand, that is why I am asking these questions.

o.k I think I understand what you are saying -

1/ That when the respective motor coil leaves the contact of brush it is charged like a capacitor and then discharges at the delivery side 180 degrees apart.
Wouldn't the speed of the rotor be of importance? because the coil would only hold that charge for a certain amount of time, the faster the better to get as much charge to delivery brushes as quick as possible.

2/ I thought that the brushes 180 degrees apart were the pick up for independently generated energy (coil passing magnets type energy) as motoring coils were powering independently of the generating side. This is then quite wrong.

Now is there at all a combination of 1/ charged coil delivery, and 2/ coil passing magnets generating energy, at output?

answering these questions will help me the best.

thanks netica

The Combinations of One Coil charging to two Coils Discharging is offered by the Three Poles or Multiples thereof...like I stated before.

And NO, the speed will not affect performance, on the contrary -to our benefit- it will increase the Output Gain...

They DO, pick Up Energy from magnetic fields induction...and more...where do you think this "extra energy" comes from?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Les_K]

Nice builds...

Wow, you guys are making nice work out of this...
That metal is really tough stuff to cut. I finally took my dremel tool with a cutting disc mounted it on the lathe and turning it by hand was able to finally get it cut. I messed it up a little trying other things, but was able to clean it up a bit on the lathe after it was cut. I should be done with the winding today, sure can't wait to see it run....

When they get more motors in RS I am going to get two more so I can use one as a baseline and the other as a generator/dynamometer of sorts. I think I will use a light for linear load, Then see how the new motor compares against the old. If it can beat 600watts per HP (I think it will easily) then That is good, If this thing does anything like I think, then I should see something more like 300w/HP. Like I have told all my friends I don't like marginal testing, so I am really hoping to see closer to the 300w/hp range.

However this is an easy test, so those who have made much better builds could certainly give this a try while I catch up....

The next test I have planned it to use one build as the motor and another build as the Generator. That could get very interesting I would think.... don't tell the Mib's.....


Les

[Ufopolitics]

They do not overheat at all...

Actually, after researching a little, many DC electric winches have very short
duty cycles. I do believe the UFO winding / brush system is the answer!

I will try to build the Radio Shack motor this week, but based on UFO diagrams and explanations, I do not see how this motor can overheat.

Hello,

I saw that Winch pic, and looks great, but the "withdraw" is to buy two...to take one for parts!

I see on the other side a Gear Box...attached.

So please make sure you could get an extra Commutator for it's config, before taking it apart...the Body Frame could be expanded with just a tubing of same diameter...no biggie there. and also check shaft length to allow the arrangement.



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

So, then Turion...

DadHav,
Believe me, those tests will be run. That is why I purchased several of the radio shack motors. I will have one (out of the box) one converted (from two put together) and a fourth to be used as a generator. I will use the converted and one right out of the box to run the fourth motor as a generator with a known constant load. It will be Monday before I have all my tests done, but then I will post results, including amps in, amps out voltage in, voltage out (loaded and unloaded) and rpms.

Dave

Hello Turion,


So you are the guy who bought all Radio Shack Nationwide stock of this little Motors??!!...

No wonder people are trying to go from store to store with no luck!!

Just kidding and laughing...

Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[larryross]

DadHav,
Believe me, those tests will be run. That is why I purchased several of the radio shack motors. I will have one (out of the box) one converted (from two put together) and a fourth to be used as a generator. I will use the converted and one right out of the box to run the fourth motor as a generator with a known constant load. It will be Monday before I have all my tests done, but then I will post results, including amps in, amps out voltage in, voltage out (loaded and unloaded) and rpms.

Dave

Good on you Turoin

Hope you prove there is something here.

Regards
Larry

[larryross]

Wow, you guys are making nice work out of this...
That metal is really tough stuff to cut. I finally took my dremel tool with a cutting disc mounted it on the lathe and turning it by hand was able to finally get it cut. I messed it up a little trying other things, but was able to clean it up a bit on the lathe after it was cut. I should be done with the winding today, sure can't wait to see it run....

When they get more motors in RS I am going to get two more so I can use one as a baseline and the other as a generator/dynamometer of sorts. I think I will use a light for linear load, Then see how the new motor compares against the old. If it can beat 600watts per HP (I think it will easily) then That is good, If this thing does anything like I think, then I should see something more like 300w/HP. Like I have told all my friends I don't like marginal testing, so I am really hoping to see closer to the 300w/hp range.

However this is an easy test, so those who have made much better builds could certainly give this a try while I catch up....

The next test I have planned it to use one build as the motor and another build as the Generator. That could get very interesting I would think.... don't tell the Mib's.....


Les

Good luck Less... I too hope you can prove 300w/hp.

Regards
Larry

[bbem]

3-pole motor

Hello to All!

<Stuff deleted>

[IMG][/IMG]

<Stuff deleted>

Ufopolitics

Hello Ufo,
I built the motor with three pole motor, but it didn't work.
(Yes I have 7-pole and 3-pole scrap motors :-)
It did get stuck and starts oscillating the rotor.

I noticed to late that the brushes are perpendicular to the magnets.
(turned 90 clockwise with respect to your drawing).

Could you give me a tip how to connect the cables to the communitators to let it work?


ps. Checked the 7-pole, and it has the brushes perpendicular to the magnets as well!

Thanks,
Bert