My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[IndianaBoys]

That's great Garry!


Wow, that Model with three magnets per stator sounds different!...please show Us later!

On Your Radiant Interference...Try Carbon Fiber Sheets...if you have them in hard type with resins...if not, see if you could find just a piece of the Mat or Cloth Material...then cover your sensors from the Motor Area...

One of the very few materials that would stop/block Radiant Energy Rays...is the Carbon Fibers...and in some direct involvement it will just kill it...it will not get generated at all...unless you restart everything.

I have done those Tests...


Regards


Ufopolitics

UFOpolitics,

Good work UFO!

What manufacturer of carbon fiber performs as 100% block to radiant energy? What form or mesh size of carbon fiber are you utilizing to support this claim. We want to do it.

Thanks,

IndianaBoys

[Cornboy 555]

Ahhh, Marxist, i do believe correctness prevails with your words. Thanks.

120 Degrees, out of kilter, to 180 degrees, has a lot of potential.

The Dilectics of nature, come to mind.

[marxist]

fields of 2 coils do not equal the field of 1

edit: the second half of this posting was heavily edited, after ufo in post #6416 explained, that in a 4-stator motor, the two opposing groups should not be fired simultaneously.

hello Ufopolitics and all,

That Three Pole [motor] has a "Y" Rotor...at 120º apart...we are firing North one end of the "Y" towards stators... but at that very moment of firing...don't you think that South Pole is traveling through core - passing [through} shaft - and ending on the Two opposed Rotor Poles?

I believe so...

I believe so too, and we have Tesla as a witness:
Ufo's following illustration of a Tesla rotor neatly shows the fields created by a single central coil.

It should be noted that N. Tesla intended, that such coils are wound onto the rotor CENTER.

However, on our conventional factory made rotors, rotor coils do not sit in the center. Instead they are located in eccentric positions, as you can see in my attached schematic illustration, showing an 8-pole 2-stator motor with two firing coils (idle or generating coils not shown).
In 2-stator motors the two rotor coils that are positioned opposite each other, are usually energized simultaneously.
We are given to understand, that their fields will add up.

But what does really happen, particularly in between the two coils, in the center of the rotor at the shaft?
The fields of both coils are very strong at the center of the core, but they are of opposite polarity.

Can the rear magnetic pole of each coil still pass through the shaft to the rear end of the rotor?
No.
Instead the opposing fields in the center of the rotor will cancel each other.

Could the energy it took to create these fields be wasted energy ?

After answering this question it is understandable, that it was advantageous that ufo - in his old winding style - positioned the halves of a coil pair NOT in DIAMETRICAL OPPOSITION. This winding style was already better than what we are sold in conventional motors.

Note: as one can see in my second illustration, showing two simultaneously firing coil groups in a 4-stator motor, this situation should also be avoided , because the rear magnetic poles of a coil can again not pass through the core to the rear metal pole pieces.

However, the new unipolar winding style is advantageous, if unipolar coil-groups are fired in overlapping sequence, so that the next coil(-group) in a multi-pole rotor is energized, before the previous one gets disconnected. In this way the field created by the rotor coils in the core, never collapses.

[Cornboy 555]

Hey Sammy,molasses flows very quick when you heat it!

[Midaztouch]

Sargent UFO

UFO is the Sargent of asymmetric motors!
full metal jacket intro monologue - YouTube

Alright pukes, get the winding!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

AKA "The Negotiator"

[sampojo]

Still slow as molasses

Geez Sam!

You were taking all your sweet time making the Commutators and connectors...and all the sudden...you are all fired up??!!...

That's good, it means we are in Sync...

One thing...please, slow down just a bit, though...

Yes You are right, Your Baldor will use 8 Poles for one Pair of Two North Coils...BUT...Hold On right there!...am working on this "scenario" right now...please, let me finish "moving pictures"...

Hold on... or I will have no other choice but to bring you "The Negotiator" here...LOL

Am working as I write here... on this perfected type of winding...and yes, it applies to Your set up...as well as the Imperial...as to any other out there...

So, stick around


Cheers


Ufopolitics

Don't let me fool you, number one priority now is mine and my daughter's taxes. Too stubborn to hire it out... then finishing the comm will take a number of hours, which I can never seem to rub together... But thats it, winding to follow, NP waiting for you

PS only 2/3 done on my monster driver, let alone mastering the Arduino program there. only one more needed for a dual stator anyway, thats a good thing, and excuse me while I limp around on my bad hip, but I might have a temporary fix for that, so I can work a little harder here...

[shylo]

Set back

The rpm's kept getting better as that top brush started to get worked in.
My alignment is off as well.
I had 3 wires (ends) come loose ,fixed it , now a fourth is cut.
The force is throwing the wires out.
I had to modify the bottom com. ..I tied all the ends of the pairs together, so a common ground??
All the starts of the pairs are wired to the top com. , so the rotation is by 1 pair firing after the next.
I tried with every other com. section and it is , seems like it's just as strong? But using half the wire?
Some repairs ,then more testing.
artv

[Ufopolitics]

Just be careful...

@ufo

thanks for the info ufo. I need to find a source, will look into the carbon fiber sheets.

Cheers

Garry

Hey Garry, just be careful...there are a lot of Plastic imitations to Carbon Fiber sheets ...basically in the Automotive Industry...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

So...Let's do Groups instead of Pairs...

Hello to All

Here is another option on this big sized Machines windings...

Instead of winding Coils into Pairs...why not do it into GROUPS?

Groups of Coils with much less turns each, overlapped every ONE pole, but keeping within same Timing Limits (set by Start-End Coil Bisectors) as shown in previously displayed Diagrams.

In the Generation Stage I see advantages...like MUCH more Vertical wires separated by Space and Time...allowing smooth more robust Induction.

In the Motor Stage I see One Bisector per Individual Coil...filling out the whole Angle of Interaction for a Group of...say SIX...for the Imperial..means Six Bisectors sweeping the Area.

We can then use heavy gauge wires for winding...no more room problems...

Let's see what will this Groups look like for a Twenty Pole...

IMPORTANT NOTE: IN BOTH DIAGRAMS BELOW I AM ONLY REPRESENTING THE GROUPS AT INTERACTIONS, MEANING MOTOR AND GENERATOR GATES.
GROUPS WILL SUBSTITUTE PAIRS HERE...
FOR THE TWENTY POLES, USED TO HAVE 20 PAIRS...NOW WILL HAVE TWENTY GROUPS OF FIVE COILS EACH GROUP.
AND FOR AN IMPERIAL WITH 28 PAIRS...NOW WOULD BE 28 GROUPS OF SIX COILS EACH

[IMG][/IMG]

And...The Imperial would look like this:

[IMG][/IMG]

Realize We have SIX SMALLER COILS, (spread over Ten Slots) taking the Place where ONLY TWO BIGGER ONES (Taking only Three Slots, Start, Center and End) FOR "PAIRS"...Meaning, if we do just SIX TURNS PER COIL...We will have 36 Total Turns per Group...more than 15+15=30Turns Total as per Kogs Imperial...And I believe we could do more than six turns per Coil...and of course am talking about 18 awg here..!!

At the same token...realize Groups will Overlap other adjacent Groups...behind and ahead of them...forming a very robust Spiral!

Now...this answers your question Sampojo...About having Eight(8) Poles Per Pair...so Now You could figure GROUPS...BUT REMEMBER...Groups MUST stay within Bisector Limits...

In the case of Group Windings...The Limiting Bisectors would be given by the First/Start and End Coils for each Group.

I am gonna wind first my BOSCH Twenty Poles this way..to confirm it will work fine.

If anyone have another type of structure that is not 20 or 28 poles let me know and I will render Diagrams to re do them.

See it did not take "Months" to do this?

If it works for just one...it must work for all the rest...

Still working on Five Pole Video...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[GChilders]

Carbon fiber sheets

@ufo

thanks for the info ufo. I need to find a source, will look into the carbon fiber sheets.

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

Carbon Fibers will Block Radiant Energy...

@ ufoPolitics

Well I just ordered 6 more goldmine motors. I have two embodiments that are already welded together. One is the original radio shack wind and the other is for the Y wind. As I understand it the Y wind is what we want to use for the new wind. I have a great deal of adjustment for the brushes built into the embodiments. I will volunteer to test the new wind and give results and also a simpler one without the wider throw angle similar to the three pole and compare the results. ufo did the Y wind have more of the effect that you spoke about than the radio shack wind. I have a Y wind that has an extra long rotor. This has 4 rotors with three stator magnets for each stator from goldmine motors. I am doing some additional experiments with this motor and I want to post the results later today. I have been hung up on getting the tachometer to work correctly with this motor. It responds well to the direct feed method and also to the pulser( I use JS Monster Drivers). It seems to adjust to the rpms and changes frequency and pulse width very well. The problem seems to be with serial communication and the interference that the motor is interdicting the commands. This does not happen when I hook up a drill motor to the timing disc so the problem is not the program or the sensors. I am hoping to resolve this as I am thinking that it will be more difficult to record the results with hand held equipment. I also think that it may affect the readings of other sensors also. For the tests I am doing today I will use hand held devices. Tachometer ammeter and voltmeter.

Cheers

Garry

That's great Garry!


Wow, that Model with three magnets per stator sounds different!...please show Us later!

On Your Radiant Interference...Try Carbon Fiber Sheets...if you have them in hard type with resins...if not, see if you could find just a piece of the Mat or Cloth Material...then cover your sensors from the Motor Area...

One of the very few materials that would stop/block Radiant Energy Rays...is the Carbon Fibers...and in some direct involvement it will just kill it...it will not get generated at all...unless you restart everything.

I have done those Tests...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hold ON Sam...

Ufo check this post, I think I calculated that quadfilar 30ga comes in around 21ga wire. I calculated about 130ft per coil of the winding I was going to use for the 5 pole RS winding you originally proposed, which would be about 2.5 ohms per coil.

dgms of trifilar vs quadfilar 30ga

ohm calculation

When I was planning on a 20 pole winding, attraction mode we had discussed, the quadfilar winding would come in under an ohm with a 20 coil machine. Even this does not meet your spec of over an ohm per coil. Too low.

The Baldor originally had 19ga. But on the new RS winding I assume you will be using the standard 5pole winding. which would be using about 125 ft per coil on my quadfilar, coming in around 2.5 ohms estd. So no good there then right? Too high. So I guess this is what you mean.

So have you posted enough written info to wind this new RS beast then? Just use the standard symmetric brush position and do not maintain coil winding direction at the transition, correct?

Actually then it is no longer one coil (N&S) but 2 N's, but lets not quibble.

So a Baldor simulation of the New RS winding would subtend 8-Poles?

If so, Here is my main question. Rather than leaving those inner poles empty dead air, how about winding an inner coil on them?

Also when you say around an ohm per coil, you really mean an ohm per 2-coils set of N's (used to be one coil, N-S complement).


So If it is a good idea to wind the inner coils I can definitely play some games, get these 2 coil sets wired in parallel and get the 2.5 quadfilar resistance to drop to 1.25 ohms! If not I will not even get as much copper on this motor as the original symm winding, as Baldor had it completely stuffed!

TIA

Geez Sam!

You were taking all your sweet time making the Commutators and connectors...and all the sudden...you are all fired up??!!...

That's good, it means we are in Sync...

One thing...please, slow down just a bit, though...

Yes You are right, Your Baldor will use 8 Poles for one Pair of Two North Coils...BUT...Hold On right there!...am working on this "scenario" right now...please, let me finish "moving pictures"...

Hold on... or I will have no other choice but to bring you "The Negotiator" here...LOL

Am working as I write here... on this perfected type of winding...and yes, it applies to Your set up...as well as the Imperial...as to any other out there...

So, stick around


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[GChilders]

new wind

@ ufoPolitics

Well I just ordered 6 more goldmine motors. I have two embodiments that are already welded together. One is the original radio shack wind and the other is for the Y wind. As I understand it the Y wind is what we want to use for the new wind. I have a great deal of adjustment for the brushes built into the embodiments. I will volunteer to test the new wind and give results and also a simpler one without the wider throw angle similar to the three pole and compare the results. ufo did the Y wind have more of the effect that you spoke about than the radio shack wind. I have a Y wind that has an extra long rotor. This has 4 rotors with three stator magnets for each stator from goldmine motors. I am doing some additional experiments with this motor and I want to post the results later today. I have been hung up on getting the tachometer to work correctly with this motor. It responds well to the direct feed method and also to the pulser( I use JS Monster Drivers). It seems to adjust to the rpms and changes frequency and pulse width very well. The problem seems to be with serial communication and the interference that the motor is interdicting the commands. This does not happen when I hook up a drill motor to the timing disc so the problem is not the program or the sensors. I am hoping to resolve this as I am thinking that it will be more difficult to record the results with hand held equipment. I also think that it may affect the readings of other sensors also. For the tests I am doing today I will use hand held devices. Tachometer ammeter and voltmeter.

Cheers

Garry

[sampojo]

Multifilar resistance calculation for Baldor etc.

Hey Sam,

You have a Highly Potential Model there...a 20 Pole is exchangeable from a Five Pole to a 20 Pole...no matter if you have only Two Stators.

So, please, make it in order to be simple to take it apart and re-wind it a few times without "bending" twisting or forcing part of its structure so it could brake in every attempt to re make it.

The Multi-Filar is fine , but I do not think just Four Strands of 30 gauge will even move that monster Steel Core you have..

So you have "an idea" of what am talking about...My Bike Motor has like 12 strands of like 23 gauge to produce a 5000 Watts Motor...that have an incredible acceleration.

So, I would do FIRST windings with regular single wire, say 18 awg...or even 20 awg...and remember, resistance should go ABOVE one ohm per Pair.

But the main part of this post...is for you to develop a simple way to take apart machine...as also their windings, hook and unhook like you are using connectors...very wise!...so, no EPOXY Resin here so far!...and do not spend any money having them balanced yet...


Regards

Ufopolitics

Ufo check this post, I think I calculated that quadfilar 30ga comes in around 21ga wire. I calculated about 130ft per coil of the winding I was going to use for the 5 pole RS winding you originally proposed, which would be about 2.5 ohms per coil.

dgms of trifilar vs quadfilar 30ga

ohm calculation

When I was planning on a 20 pole winding, attaction mode we had discussed, the quadfilar winding would come in under an ohm with a 20 coil machine. Even this does not meet your spec of over an ohm per coil. Too low.

The Baldor originally had 19ga. But on the new RS winding I assume you will be using the standard 5pole winding. which would be using about 125 ft per coil on my quadfilar, coming in around 2.5 ohms estd. So no good there then right? Too high. So I guess this is what you mean.

So have you posted enough written info to wind this new RS beast then? Just use the standard symmetric brush position and do not maintain coil winding direction at the transition, correct?

Actually then it is no longer one coil (N&S) but 2 N's, but lets not quibble.

So a Baldor simulation of the New RS winding would subtend 8-Poles?

If so, Here is my main question. Rather than leaving those inner poles empty dead air, how about winding an inner coil on them?

Also when you say around an ohm per coil, you really mean an ohm per 2-coils set of N's (used to be one coil, N-S complement).


So If it is a good idea to wind the inner coils I can definitely play some games, get these 2 coil sets wired in parallel and get the 2.5 quadfilar resistance to drop to 1.25 ohms! If not I will not even get as much copper on this motor as the original symm winding, as Baldor had it completely stuffed!

TIA

[Ufopolitics]

Great Shylo!

Hi All, Well it took a while ,but finally got it working. It has incredible rpm.
Now I will see where best to place generating brushes.
It does get quite warm though, maybe once the brushes seat it won't be as bad.
UFO , not sure if I did it right , but I just spanned 4 poles, then back around #4 and on to pole 7 , for my coil pairs, then just continued for 10 coil pairs.
I could only fit 10 winds per coil, so 20 per pair.
Thanks for all the info , much appreciated.
artv

That's wonderful Shylo!

I see you have both Motor Brushes set around 90º, maybe a bit less...so you should have set the wires to close connection at that exact angle...otherwise it will never run...

Also, you are the first I see that was able to set one commutator on top of the other...wow!...nice!

If there is a way we could see the whole set up in one picture...it would help to see what you are doing...

This type of Asymmetry heats up if the timing is set either too behind or too forward...just because at least one of the coils will tend to lock up against at least one stator, normally this occurs at the attracting one or South...slowing contact time per all rest of coils...that would also contribute to slow down at time to fire.

So, try to move/rotate both brushes (keeping exact angle between them) AWAY from the South Stator...assuming your rotor is all North and NOT All South...make sure, otherwise is the opposite.

Good job Shylo!!


Regards


Ufopolitics