My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

I will work on it for you...

Hello Mr. Ufopolitics,

Yes it is a 16 pole I use the 12 pole diagram to rewire it. And yes two stators
with two brushes.
You say can make run stronger- then I'll try. Yes please show me the diagram if possible.

Thanks as always my friend,
wantomake

Hello Wantomake,

Ok, I will prep a Diagram for You...I do not have a 16 Pole Pattern in CAD...so I will have to start from zero...but I will render it soon.

Now, some interesting tests you could do with your machine now...coupled to one of your Generators heads...is to add to Generator under a known load given in Watts...versus what V and A the Prime mover (Asymmetrical Modified) is taking...so it is Watts In against Watts Out...and let's "disregard" the Asymmetric Machine output for now...in order you could inject also through the Output like you did before(Turbo Boost)..in case when load applied to Generator Head...RPM's drop too much...

I want you to run the Generator Head with either one of your Mod's...one you have now or the one I will give you...and I want you to be witness that you will be outputting higher Watts than In...I want to finish this "dilemma" of up to now a "fiction" once and for all...and is great you have Gen Heads!!

Whenever you have a chance tell Us what kind of Wattage the Heads output...

Edit: You can NOT apply the Turbo Boost for too long!!...it will get hot!...since you are not releasing ANY output...Armature will overload...Ok?...But you could do it "just in case" it is required...but play with different loads...from small to higher first, with normal Input...


Thanks!


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[thaelin]

Tandem rotor pic

OK UFO, here is the pic of the dual rotor getting ready for its wire. It is setting in the end caps and not the brush assemblies. Out and about looking for another motor but none to be had so have to go with the mismatch set. One is a 250watt and the other is a 350 watt. By the time I wind the #20 on it, who knows what wattage it will be. 0_0
Good part is each is a 4 magnet 4 brush setup, bad part is this way no shaft on the outside to work with. Still not quite sure how I will run the brush wireing but figure it will work ok if I shift the one end since it will only be half a wind. The other half will be on the other set. Can always run them in series if it screams too loud.

Ok, I will quit running my mug and get the pic up.

thay

[prochiro]

No Shaft

OK UFO, here is the pic of the dual rotor getting ready for its wire. It is setting in the end caps and not the brush assemblies. Out and about looking for another motor but none to be had so have to go with the mismatch set. One is a 250watt and the other is a 350 watt. By the time I wind the #20 on it, who knows what wattage it will be. 0_0
Good part is each is a 4 magnet 4 brush setup, bad part is this way no shaft on the outside to work with. Still not quite sure how I will run the brush wireing but figure it will work ok if I shift the one end since it will only be half a wind. The other half will be on the other set. Can always run them in series if it screams too loud.

Ok, I will quit running my mug and get the pic up.

thay

Is it possible to change the shaft for a longer one, a little more work but may be well worth the effort.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Thaelin

OK UFO, here is the pic of the dual rotor getting ready for its wire. It is setting in the end caps and not the brush assemblies. Out and about looking for another motor but none to be had so have to go with the mismatch set. One is a 250watt and the other is a 350 watt. By the time I wind the #20 on it, who knows what wattage it will be. 0_0
Good part is each is a 4 magnet 4 brush setup, bad part is this way no shaft on the outside to work with. Still not quite sure how I will run the brush wireing but figure it will work ok if I shift the one end since it will only be half a wind. The other half will be on the other set. Can always run them in series if it screams too loud.

Ok, I will quit running my mug and get the pic up.

thay

Hello Thaelin,

Thanks, I can see now what you are doing...

Yes, I see the difference in both armatures length (because of Watts diff)...but it is not much.
What I noticed is quite some big space of shaft-coupling in between both rotors, it will be wasted space Thay, even if you run wires all along they will not be backed up by the stators, therefore, it will not make any difference, that part of wire will not induce, nor react to assist motor stage either...will be just conducting...
Is there any way to get both rotors closer, then gain some space of shaft?...Did you try pressing shaft to move related to rotor core?

Is it 20 or 16 poles?...It is a great advantage to have four stators and four brush system though!

I will tell you a good way to make your machine...in the "winding side"...or Coils distribution.

I will get the longer rotor for Generator wind type, and the shorter for Motor, still using two commutators.
The Motor Coils will grab the number of poles as I have suggested before in Diagrams...like if it is a 16 poles then you grab Four Poles, right...?
But the Generator Coils you will divide them in Two and Two Poles per each Motor Coil, meaning a Motor will have Two Coils in each Pair, and the Generator will have Four Coils total, and they will be connected in series between Motor to Generator, and in the same exact alignment related to Stators, that way you will just have one wire per Pair running from one rotor to the other...

If there is something you do not understand let me know...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Sanskara316]

Hey Sanskara,

I did post some pics on page 58 post #1716. Not real good pics but was very excited and happy.

Hope these pics help. I look forward to this adventure for us all. I'm still a student here, but if I can be of any help I'll try.

Best to all and let's keep this wonderful invention from Ufopolitics moving
forward.
wantomake

Wow, she's so beautiful, good work Wantomake, If only I could quit my job, and do this Anyways please update us on your progress Thanks

[JohnStone]

Hi Prochiro,
what is the state of your 22 pole vacuum motor. I am ready to wind mine now.
What length and diameter of wire did you use, how many turns per coil? I assume that those motors are very similar all over the world.
Just for last check before winding: can you confirm thiswinding scheme I added the radial (side) view to UFOs original axial view. Please bare with me if I missed some facts and correct me. (Sorry, the colour of the wires do not match: The blue one in my drawing correspnds to the red one in UFOs drawing)
I checked the brushes and they will engage two winding sets at any time. So the total activated angle of the armature is 180 degree (11 poles) at a time while the stator poles cover 126 degeree each (= 8 poles of armature) .
@ UFO: is that what you expect to do well?

rgds John

[Turion]

UFO was kind enough to tell me how to wind both the motor and the generator from the 16 pole armatures in the razor scooter motors. I have found that these motors come with two different size shafts. The smaller shaft can be replaced by a steel rod you can purchase at Lowes. The one that takes a larger shaft can still be used with this smaller rod by simply sliding a piece of small copper pipe onto the rod, pinning it or securing it by other means, and then sliding the rotor onto the copper pipe. Using this method, you can combine several of the armatures in a row to create a looooooong generator. Currently I have five of the armatures I can put together to build the generator. The body of these motors comes with legs you can bolt down, so you can securely mount body after body in a row to create the casing in which to turn this armature. It could be welded if you so desire. The casing needs to be cut on each side of the magnet so that all the magnets are in a row with no spaces in between and I haven't gotten that far yet.

Dave

[thaelin]

Hello Thaelin,

Thanks, I can see now what you are doing...

Yes, I see the difference in both armatures length (because of Watts diff)...but it is not much.
What I noticed is quite some big space of shaft-coupling in between both rotors, it will be wasted space Thay, even if you run wires all along they will not be backed up by the stators, therefore, it will not make any difference, that part of wire will not induce, nor react to assist motor stage either...will be just conducting...
Is there any way to get both rotors closer, then gain some space of shaft?...Did you try pressing shaft to move related to rotor core?

Is it 20 or 16 poles?...It is a great advantage to have four stators and four brush system though!

I will tell you a good way to make your machine...in the "winding side"...or Coils distribution.

I will get the longer rotor for Generator wind type, and the shorter for Motor, still using two commutators.
The Motor Coils will grab the number of poles as I have suggested before in Diagrams...like if it is a 16 poles then you grab Four Poles, right...?
But the Generator Coils you will divide them in Two and Two Poles per each Motor Coil, meaning a Motor will have Two Coils in each Pair, and the Generator will have Four Coils total, and they will be connected in series between Motor to Generator, and in the same exact alignment related to Stators, that way you will just have one wire per Pair running from one rotor to the other...

If there is something you do not understand let me know...


Regards


Ufopolitics

OK, back to square one. Looking at the "anatomy" of the rotors, there is an open area by the shaft in which I can run the wires to the commutators. Just have to run a protector on the outside to keep it from shorting. Also, had way too much wire in there for just one winding.

So no confusion, my motors are the same setup as T's. 16 pole 4 commutators and 4 mags NSNS layout. The diff is that the 350 watt has the mags in a different position "45 degree rotation". Now if I am to get this straight, that will not be a problem now since one will be motor and the other will be generator. I just have to wire the commutator on the gen side to reflect the difference and what valley the wire goes in.

Now for the motor side, I am with you there. The gen side is a bit fuzzy tho. I am going to use a scrap piece of wire and see just how many can fit snugly in each valley then we will go from there.

thay

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Turion

UFO was kind enough to tell me how to wind both the motor and the generator from the 16 pole armatures in the razor scooter motors. I have found that these motors come with two different size shafts. The smaller shaft can be replaced by a steel rod you can purchase at Lowes. The one that takes a larger shaft can still be used with this smaller rod by simply sliding a piece of small copper pipe onto the rod, pinning it or securing it by other means, and then sliding the rotor onto the copper pipe. Using this method, you can combine several of the armatures in a row to create a looooooong generator. Currently I have five of the armatures I can put together to build the generator. The body of these motors comes with legs you can bolt down, so you can securely mount body after body in a row to create the casing in which to turn this armature. It could be welded if you so desire. The casing needs to be cut on each side of the magnet so that all the magnets are in a row with no spaces in between and I haven't gotten that far yet.

Dave

Hey Dave good work!!

Now one thing I noted on Pic...That winded rotor is not part of the Generator right?
Because the purpose of aligning three or more armatures right next to each others is to run Looong wires all running along...and turning at the end rotors...like elongating stretching the coil...aaaall the way to each ends... Then Magnets Stators you stock them also in a stack array...making sure you do not EVER put a North and a South on top of each others...
Edit 1:

I will try to explain in "Surrealistic View"...
Imagine Your Generator is made out of Rubber...all of it...wires, armature, cores,magnets, etc...and it is 10 inches long...so in order to make it produce more...you will stretch the WHOLE THING AS IT IS up to 40 Inches, everything will stretch there...as is...magnets wires...cores, rotors...all...and the more you do it...the more output it will get...just like multiplying Volts times every inch you stretch it...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Vacuum

Hi Prochiro,
what is the state of your 22 pole vacuum motor. I am ready to wind mine now.
What length and diameter of wire did you use, how many turns per coil? I assume that those motors are very similar all over the world.
Just for last check before winding: can you confirm thiswinding scheme I added the radial (side) view to UFOs original axial view. Please bare with me if I missed some facts and correct me. (Sorry, the colour of the wires do not match: The blue one in my drawing correspnds to the red one in UFOs drawing)
I checked the brushes and they will engage two winding sets at any time. So the total activated angle of the armature is 180 degree (11 poles) at a time while the stator poles cover 126 degeree each (= 8 poles of armature) .
@ UFO: is that what you expect to do well?

rgds John

Hi John
I used 24# as I felt that I had to at lease get 11 winds per half coil. Your diagram looks good to me. I have had one H*** of a time getting the eleven half winds in without shorting on the rotor. This is driving me crazzy. What I found is that at the end of the rotor where the wire turns to go back down, five posts over, it does good to not turn too quickly as you block the next coil wind. Also keep the turn as far from the edge of the rotor as possible as room gets filled up fast and you do not know untill it is too late. The most important thing is to get all wires as far into the slot as possible and flat all the way. I wonder if after winding a coil if one put a tine bit of epoxy on the wired in the slot and after it just sets up a little, press them down all the way and they would stay down. What are your thoughts for wire size. I think I may at first just use the stator wires that are in there as I can make it one single wire.Dana

[JohnStone]

... What are your thoughts for wire size. ..

An approach:
What is the copper wire diameter in the brand new motor? Calulate the amperage (mine is 220V / 1000W-> 5A) and the losses for a original winding. The motor was built for these losses. Factors: Amperage / copper diameter / copper length...... No idea what duty time these windings are loaded.

Here you find a calculator. But the amperage is not for coils but in free wiring.

I have the strong feeling that normal wound motors will dissipate more power than UFO's motors. Note that our motor coils will be driven not in steady mode.
Here is my calculation:
We have 22 elements on cummutator. The brushes cover 1.5 elements. So a single element will be powered for a duty of 2.5 elements from the very first contact to the very last contact to the brushes.
Therefore the duty cycle is not 1/22 but 1/22*2.5=0.11.
Additionally there are two different windings active at any time. So we know that the current in an individual coil is one half from the input current measured.

Not shure if this calculation holds but it is my first attempt in order to get a first guess.
I would like to use the same wire diameter like original if I clacualte 5A and double the wire for 10A.
rgds John

[Turion]

The rotor with wires on it WILL be part of the generator...as soon as I take the wire off. I have two more that ALSO need to have the wire removed, and then all five will be put together and wound as ONE big loooong armature.

Dave

[machinealive]

5 pole

Ok UFO, It's done, and it was intense. It turned out really nice, except one of comms was too close to rotor so wires are blocking part of comm, but I'm sure I can work something here. Anyway, here are some pics, it has some weight now, thats 163 X 5 ft of number 20 ga.

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/58f9595d.jpg

Pictures by machinealive - Photobucket


I checked all the elements for continuity,all good, I may soak it in varnish so it never moves, not sure.

So, now I need to build a large stator.

[pmazz850]

Nice work machinealive!

[machinealive]

thank you Pmazz,

I cleaned it up some

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/452d1f8d.jpg

Also, I was sniffing around in the garage and found some nice maple for a stator

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/66dee2f1.jpg

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/b37035af.jpg

I am going to put another comm at the end of both sides, I think that would be nice and roomy, and still room for rollers and coupling too,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/696686b5.jpg

and finally, just to show how big the 6" X 6 " aluminum cyl. is compared to the 4" X 3" I just finished,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/95a68353.jpg