My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Sam

Kogs, I am leaning toward disagreement.

Quoting your second paragraph:


My last chart only shows taking the winding of any particular coil another half turn to move its connection point to the other side of the motor, just to get the chage of direction the wire approaches my connectors. Ufo clearly supported this thought as he questioned why I was showing the direction of rotation opposite from Dgm 1

I have editted a comment in my post 6257 to make sure readers get this. Now if I am wrong let me know so I can make it right.

Hey Sam,

Honestly, I did not notice any difference in your "edited post" diagrams...

Otherwise I continue on the pains of not having a clean commutator to work with as I have devised a hopefully robust solderless connection method. I ask readers and Ufo to comment on whether the mounted connector in the picture below looks strong enough.



I am making a doubled 19ga tuning fork style connector mount that joins my 2 comm segments into 1, as it is 40-segment commutator for a 20 pole motor, designed to meet standard asymmetric requirements. I use a little solder on cleaned magnet wire to hold it together for shaping. It then acts like a flux for the brazing metal I use. Wrapping my brass connector is the last step, and no heat needs to be applied to the commutator.

I have installed one connector. It seems to pass strength needs as it is very solid feeling, and when I stamped it in, I seem to have gotten enough of the copper commutator to seal over the wire, even though it did not look possible when I started. I stamped the beads sticking out at the end of the fork on the other commutator where I had to install one wire, but dont want to here as it will loosen the primary stamp again and I don't know how many of those I have in a given installation. The beads will keep it from pulling out also. If they loosen I would restamp again, and would be an easy thing to inspect on a built motor.

So how's the stamp look to you, UFO?
TIA

And finally:




My advice, start from post 1, advancing based on your comprehension. Build a small motor, and do the same for the "my-motors-got-me" thread.

Good luck!

It looks good Sam...and strong...However, the only thing I do not understand is... why are you taking the tabs/plates to attach/clamp to your coils ends towards the Inner side of commutator and not outwards where there is so much space?

I really do not see the point...running all wires towards the interior, closer to shaft...gives you all kind of possible problems, besides being very uncomfortable to attach, clamp wires to brass plate in that zone, there is no way to check connections with a meter for future diagnosis...plus being closer to a naked shaft...could make short circuits or sparks to ground.

Maybe you have it all figured out...and coming up with a heck of idea...so...surprise me/Us...


Take care Sam...maybe the super cold weather have you "learning in disagreement"...


So Warm Regards friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Lamination stacks...

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

Hello Menace and Welcome,

Steel Lamination is a raw product, it comes in large sizes, normally comes in 8X4 Feet sheets in US. Steel is cheap, so it is no "business" to sell small portions on the Internet or Ebay...

You can check in your closest Steel Wholesaler (they sale big T and H Beams for construction, as many other patterns, including sheets...but, if they have also a shop inside area, then you may ask for left overs from previous cuts...

Good luck


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

Hello Menace22, are you wanting custom design laminations?, or standard small motor laminations?.

Regards Cornboy.

[sampojo]

Re: Kogs p6261 poss error/Comm Production

Kogs, I am leaning toward disagreement.

Quoting your second paragraph:

In your posts above you only show changing/Reversing the wires so the current goes in the opposite direction and this is confusing because You still show the polarity of the coils the same you need to recognize that the polarity of the coils are also changedand therefore you cannot follow just what is happening.
I have here 2 drawings showing what happens when you change the direction of the current.
The first shows the Negative from the top/drive end of the motor here is wound to run CCW now runs in reverse

My last chart only shows taking the winding of any particular coil another half turn to move its connection point to the other side of the motor, just to get the chage of direction the wire approaches my connectors. Ufo clearly supported this thought as he questioned why I was showing the direction of rotation opposite from Dgm 1

I have editted a comment in my post 6257 to make sure readers get this. Now if I am wrong let me know so I can make it right.

Otherwise I continue on the pains of not having a clean commutator to work with as I have devised a hopefully robust solderless connection method. I ask readers and Ufo to comment on whether the mounted connector in the picture below looks strong enough.



I am making a doubled 19ga tuning fork style connector mount that joins my 2 comm segments into 1, as it is 40-segment commutator for a 20 pole motor, designed to meet standard asymmetric requirements. I use a little solder on cleaned magnet wire to hold it together for shaping. It then acts like a flux for the brazing metal I use. Wrapping my brass connector is the last step, and no heat needs to be applied to the commutator.

I have installed one connector. It seems to pass strength needs as it is very solid feeling, and when I stamped it in, I seem to have gotten enough of the copper commutator to seal over the wire, even though it did not look possible when I started. I stamped the beads sticking out at the end of the fork on the other commutator where I had to install one wire, but dont want to here as it will loosen the primary stamp again and I don't know how many of those I have in a given installation. The beads will keep it from pulling out also. If they loosen I would restamp again, and would be an easy thing to inspect on a built motor.

So how's the stamp look to you, UFO?
TIA

And finally:

a new member here, may be accepted to study here

My advice, start from post 1, advancing based on your comprehension. Build a small motor, and do the same for the "my-motors-got-me" thread.

Good luck!

[menace22]

Need Parts

Hello all ,
can someone please advise where to buy\find\order online , steel lamination stacks ??(armature rotor core)
i cant seem to find any....
thanks

[iankoglin]

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[markonah]

a new member here, may be accepted to study here

[DamionLiu]

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[iankoglin]

Reversing the Battery terminals reverses the current and changed direction

G'day Sampojo
I really had a problem trying to understand the same as what you are trying to understand
I have always applied the Negative from the top and the positive from the bottom and yet my motors always run the right way it all depends which way you wind the coils UFO said to me I should follow convention and that was HE always showed the Positive on the Top or Drive end of the motor.
In your posts above you only show changing/Reversing the wires so the current goes in the opposite direction and this is confusing because You still show the polarity of the coils the same you need to recognize that the polarity of the coils are also changedand therefore you cannot follow just what is happening.
I have here 2 drawings showing what happens when you change the direction of the current.
The first shows the Negative from the top/drive end of the motor here is wound to run CCW now runs in reverse


Notice where the commutator for P1 is in relation to the Brush and notice the polarity of the windings of P1

Now here we show what the motor looks like when you JUST swap the battery wires so NOW the positive is to the top/Drive end this is the way this motor is intended to go



The current being reversed changes the polarity of the windings of armature and that causes the motor to run in reverse.

This motor was wired to run CCW you can see the difference that just changing the polarity has as to where the armature is in relation to the Magnets when it fires when in reverse the motor is not so powerful

I hope my friend that this is of some help
Kindest regards


Kogs trying to help

[Ufopolitics]

Positive Connection...

Ufo, Since my direction is not what I needed on the comm connectors, i.e. pointing up toward the blue N coil, I cannot follow dgm 1. I then must connect downward to the south coil ON THE FRONT COMMUTATOR on dgm 2. The difference is indicated in the names of the blue and red comm connection keys in the lower corners of the diagram, as they are reversed from diagram one, and also the colored comm segments are flip-flopped where the wires hook to the Comm.

Can't quite do the math on what this change is doing to directionality or whether I need to do like you are saying about switching the position of the N-S magnets to go along with the Comm switch. I try to rotate it in my mind and everything explodes. Must take a lot of practice to do brain CADS like Tesla did, I hear.

PS: A light went on. So with my reversal of my front/rear red/blue connections, I am really changing the +/- inputs too. And as you say this will maintain dgm 1 direction of rotation? I think I got by George!

OK I think I am filling in a blind spot in motor winding 101. When you put Blue for North on your diagrams, does that mean that connection takes the positive voltage connection?

Hello Sam,


I have always instructed to use the CONNECTING DRIVE SIDE of Shaft as the Positive Input Commutator as a REFERENCE.

That term is RELATIVE though, the side you decide to feed positive could be changed to bottom commutator (opposite to driving end of shaft)...and I believe that is ALL you have done here...If so, that will NOT affect the rotation sense nor the Coils Polarity for Pairs at all, You are just changing the way to feed through commutators the coils...as long as you are using the same wiring sequence from coils/pairs when you originally wound them from start to end, then rotation would be the same as originally conceived

But if you swap the way wires were supposed to be fed...then your rotor coils would be opposite in magnetic polarity...Rotation sense would be reversed.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

difference between dgm 1&2

Ufo, Since my direction is not what I needed on the comm connectors, i.e. pointing up toward the blue N coil, I cannot follow dgm 1. I then must connect downward to the south coil ON THE FRONT COMMUTATOR on dgm 2. The difference is indicated in the names of the blue and red comm connection keys in the lower corners of the diagram, as they are reversed from diagram one, and also the colored comm segments are flip-flopped where the wires hook to the Comm.

Can't quite do the math on what this change is doing to directionality or whether I need to do like you are saying about switching the position of the N-S magnets to go along with the Comm switch. I try to rotate it in my mind and everything explodes. Must take a lot of practice to do brain CADS like Tesla did, I hear.

PS: A light went on. So with my reversal of my front/rear red/blue connections, I am really changing the +/- inputs too. And as you say this will maintain dgm 1 direction of rotation? I think I got by George!

OK I think I am filling in a blind spot in motor winding 101. When you put Blue for North on your diagrams, does that mean that connection takes the positive voltage connection?

[Ufopolitics]

Correct...but,...

Well of course I got it the opposite of what I was trying to follow on this diagram.


Dgm 1
Here is my comm



If you rotate the comm upwards on the horizontal axis, looking at its front and installing it on the front of the rotor, the connectors under the left brush will be pointing downwards. Following Diagram 1, the blue wire comes in from the top, and will not be able to connect.

Ufo: So going with the flow, Can the wires be reversed and it will still run in the attraction mode, but just in the opposite direction as shown in this second diagram?


Dgm. 2

Thanks

Hello Sam,

Remember, the way I have set this Diagram is at NEUTRAL setting.

And yes that is correct (related to what you are asking me)... just reverse the North-South (Colors change red to blue) whenever you reverse the voltage input...then follow reactions between P1 rotor and Red South stator and it will give you the rotation sense.

However, I do not see right the lower picture...rotation arrow, versus rotor coils polarity positioning related to south stator... it has not changed from upper diagram...so why should it turn reverse?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Baldor comm connectors backward

Well of course I got it the opposite of what I was trying to follow on this diagram.


Dgm 1
Here is my comm



If you rotate the comm upwards on the horizontal axis, looking at its front and installing it on the front of the rotor, the connectors under the left brush will be pointing downwards. Following Diagram 1, the blue wire comes in from the top, and will not be able to connect.

Ufo: So going with the flow, Can the wires be reversed and it will still run in the attraction mode, but just in the opposite direction as shown in this second diagram?


Dgm. 2 EDIT: This diagram rotation direction is WRONG, DOES NOT CHANGE FROM DIAGRAM 1

Thanks

[machinealive]

Crosby, Nova Scotia's pride., he has a house across the lake from my sister-in-law. Might be a hotel. The boats are nonstop in the summer, people trying to see him and his hockey friends.
Congrats on the new granddaughter, I became a great uncle on the weekend too!

Machine

[Midaztouch]

Kogs,

You have to ride the trike across Australia two Cornboys farm!! 12v @ 50amps with 1:3 gearing, should make for an EPIC adventure! Take your smart phone and video it... I will follow your every move!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz