My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[sampojo]

Hockey

I'm from western PA, and a Penguin fan so I took pleasure, when Crosby was on the ice. All the time it was Crosby this and Crosby that, getting and keeping the puck in play.

[machinealive]

I only tacked mine, I hoped, in a sad twisted way, someone would wind one better. Now I have a new goal set, now we can all see it can be done. It reminds me of Dana! and the monster. Once someone gets it right, it gives everyone else a goal, lessons doubt, if you're getting, tired.

Btw, UFO, I got about 2-3 weeks left of hard labor, cutting firewood(my free, backbreaking energy ), and clearing a small lot of maples to tap next year, swwweeeeeet . Then I can get to my buds with the water cutter. I did manage to get 5 coats of insulation and varnish on 75 12"x 12", steel sheets.

Also, I would like to say go Canada Olympic hockey. Yeah baby, men's and woman's gold, gold, gold. The woman's game, was a heart stopper.
Sorry, hope there is at least one other hockey fan. .

Machine

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Kogs

I had a chance to look your vids over. Hats off, Kogs, my friend, you have the winner.. So, UFO, I guess we must have cooked our motors right off the bat last time,. ,
I bet you've just breathed a new breath of life into these motors, awesome kogs.
So, now, I have to rewind one of my motors, Kogs, you will have to refresh everyone on what ga, and # turns you used. With amps that low, were are back to more normal priced varistors. And that was all at constant DC, those are amazing results. JEEEEESUS, that thing was moving, 5000 rpm, at 48 v @9 amps, I think that is correct, incredible.
UFO, have you started rewinding yet.

Machine

Machine...

So...¿Do You REALLY wanna race Kogs Imperial NOW??!!

Yeah, I know...Me and my Spanish double quotation marks......I feel it better emphasizes the question...

Kogs Used EXACTLY same wire I ORIGINALLY recommended or 18 awg...NOT 19 like You chose!!...

He went more turns than Me (and you I guess)...15 Turns per coil (I fitted 12-13)...total of 4-6 more than mine at each Pair...guess that made this difference.

Me rewinding my epoxied Imperial again??!!...No Way José...rather buy another UFO Kit...


Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hey Kogs

I had a chance to look your vids over. Hats off, Kogs, my friend, you have the winner.. So, UFO, I guess we must have cooked our motors right off the bat last time,. ,
I bet you've just breathed a new breath of life into these motors, awesome kogs.
So, now, I have to rewind one of my motors, Kogs, you will have to refresh everyone on what ga, and # turns you used. With amps that low, were are back to more normal priced varistors. And that was all at constant DC, those are amazing results. JEEEEESUS, that thing was moving, 5000 rpm, at 48 v @9 amps, I think that is correct, incredible.
UFO, have you started rewinding yet.

Machine

[Ufopolitics]

Yes Indeed I will...

@Ufopolitics

I was hoping you could give me your opinion of this generator design that I came up with, based on Bruce DePalma's work.



Kindest regards,

Vidbid

PS: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post251070

Hello Vidbid,

But of course I will!...please just read my intro at my new Thread and you will find your name there...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...1831-date.html

You just "Forced" Me to start Uploading all this Material...since you started your Thread on Your N-Machine...There are "Basics" there that would lead you to a better understanding as of... why I did it?

Please be patient.

Thanks


Ufopolitics

[vidbid]

Request to Ufopolitics

@Ufopolitics

I was hoping you could give me your opinion of this generator design that I came up with, based on Bruce DePalma's work.



Kindest regards,

Vidbid

PS: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post251070

[sampojo]

First Baldor Commutator completed with connectors

Check this out. 40 segments on commutator for 20-pole motor, each segments had 2 19ga wires coming out of it in that retarded symm winding. I wasn't sure how I would handle redoing the wiring so I left the wires in, cut them off about 1/2" long. Since the manufacturing process stamped the wires into the commutator, I did not feel confident the if I just dremmeled out the wires, that I would be able to make a slot that would hold the wires. My other commutator I did dremmel out the wires, some slots look tight, others not, and they just don't look like the will hold since the manufacturer stamped them. I figure there is one more stamp left in it, which is what I will be doing to it when I mount connectors there on the orig 19ga wire. So here is the commutator with 20 connectors BRAZED onto the wires with my acetylene torch with as low a flame as I could get. I am very relieved that I see no heat damage anywhere!



The challenge with connectors was soldering is verbotten, will melt and splatter when running. I couldn't find the right silver solder, hard stuff, but had some nice brazing rod, lower melting point than gas welding rod. The first few connectors were tough, afraid to heat the commutator too much even with it sitting in a pan of water, and the bazing wouldnt flow into the connector wrapped around the wires even though I had previously brazed the wires into a shaft to hold the connectors. I didn't think I needed flux. Then I came up with the idea to tin the wires with solder and try to get some flux on the top too. Worked good, the solder seemed to act like a flux too, and I figure the solder alloyed into a higher melting point with the brazing, and took less heat as the melting point would be somewhere in between. Connectors look a little long on most, but they should cut down to size easy enough if needed.

I'll be making faster progress on the other commutator since I will be assembling the connectors & wires without them connected to the commutator. I think that will go easier. I plan on using my propane torch there. Then I will be winding soon. (Hope I got the winding direction right) These comms will lend themselves to multiple redesigns methinks. And since I am using a quad-filar design using 30ga, connectors almost seems necessary for that reason too.



Kogs! Congratulations. WOW FANTASTIC MOTOR. Ran so tame, purred!!!! even at 9000 RPM!!!! What a pussy cat! Are you sure that isn't a Radio Shack replication??
I vote for Kogs on the best Imperial replication so far! That is one finished product, ready for manufacture! Nothing left to do but play with the Arduino now
Hey Midaz Sure you want to race with a motor like that?? No big motor growl!

PS I guess I am in a good mood. I have been a little slow on my build for a lot of reasons, but for some good ones too, I have my first granddaughter now!

[mikec_ut]

Having Problems with 12 pole slanted slot armature

@all,
I have been having fun modifying small motors, working my way up in size. I have done 3 pole, 5 pole and am working on 12 pole and my next will be a 16 pole.
My problem is with the 12 pole. I have an armature that has a slanted slot and I have modified and made 3 different motors. I have used different size wire on each motor, I have used both the 90 degree offset and the 180 degree offset as describe by UFO in previous posts. Each motor started up just fine, drawing a varying amount of current as per wire size. The problem it seems is there is no torque on these motors.
I have a fly wheel that I can attach to any of the motors I modify with adjustable weights to see if the motors will start up and run under load. None of the 12 pole motors will start under load, but the original works just fine. I don't understand what this problem. One of the modified motors draws about 20 amps, the next draws about 10 amps and the last about 4 amps.
I have rewound each motor thinking I did it wrong with the same results. Each motor has two brushes and a single North and a single South stator magnet. When using the motors without a load the measured generator voltage is about 0.5 volts (my RS motor has at least a few volts).
Has anyone modified with a slanted slot in the armature, all the modified motors that work for me have been straight slots.
My motor modification includes movable brushes and movable stator magnets. I have moved them to different locations without any improvements.
Any help would be useful other wise I will move on to the 16 pole and see if it will work for me.

[Ufopolitics]

The Beast is relesed...

Try These

12v Running the Imperial P56 and measuring the Gen output - YouTube

24v to 48v Running the Imperial P56 and measuring the Gen output.MOV - YouTube

Imperial putting the gen output back into the motor - YouTube

Kogs

Hello My Friend Kogs!


What can I say?...excellent way of putting together the ENTIRE Assembly of this Beast...

Somethings I want to point out...

1-THOSE are the expected RPM's results according to Voltage supplied...

Plus...

2-THOSE are the Right Amperage Draw...for a linear/straight feed...awesome!

3-THOSE are the expected result related to "No Sparking" at Commutators...

and finally...

4-THOSE are the right Output numbers of the 50% of same coils, same brush number...recycling/sending back to source...

Conclusion:

You used the SAME gauge (awg) that I have specified a while back...plus, you have used as many turns as you could fit there...which were actually more than mine...good!

You went beyond and had this machines balanced mechanically by professional machine shops...

As a Trophy You have in your hands a HECK of a Machine(s)...I am very happy with your results, as I am very proud of your intensive, non stopping persistence!

Excellent work Kogs!!


Warm regards Dear Friend


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hey guys

Kogs, that's an expensive little box of motors, they look excellent btw, great testing.

Machine

[Ufopolitics]

The Great Gig in the Sky...

Hello Barbosi,

The way I understand Erfinder's work, is not you but him suggesting that we could manipulate and control CEMF. And that would mark a distinction and priority of that claim.

The way Erfinder projected his previous approach... was based on "This Technology Claims that..." Then I corrected what my claims...or not even my claims but my shared info...However, I do understand Erfinder is trying to help, as well as trying for everyone to understand the effects He is observing along his work.

The way I see his approach is that we cannot "isolate" EMF from CEMF, same as the horse and carriage, while we still want an effective transportation. But as you say, we can make CEMF to assist the EMF same as the carriage could assist the horse with less inertia if it would be possible (and that is his claim, if I understand it right).

You are right, we can not 'completely' isolate CEMF from EMF...just because one is dependent/reactive upon the primary cause (EMF)...however, we can "turn off" the primary, once it has fulfilled its work...leaving the secondary reaction "by itself"...

Say about the Horse (EMF) and the Carriage (CEMF) example you mentioned...say we are driving horse-carriage through a path of Up and Down hills identically same in height, width and angle of inclination of slopes... normally, a driver will make the horse go faster before the climbing side all the way to top of the hill...then let inertia handle the downhill work...assisted by gravity...then it is just to "steer" carriage and horse the proper way...but no physical effort should be required from horse going down slope.

However, we do have a problem here...when carriage-horse is going down hill...horse is an obstacle for carriage to develop a full speed...and as a matter of fact it could be braking the speed/acceleration down at randomly intervals.

Now, let's imagine we could "turn off" horse completely with a magic remote control...and make it appear at our command...then we will advance at huge steps...turning off horse downhill and just steering carriage while horse rests......then carriage will develop a full speed...till seconds before ending free fall we turn back on our horse...to start climbing again.

But I could be completely wrong in my assumptions, so I better let open the forum for discussions for people to explore his novel idea.

PS: In a personal note, my feeling Erfinder is trying to build bridges, not to burn them.

Erfinder is free to expose here his thoughts...as his ideas of how we could improve or obtain same effect or 'control' CEMF towards the Motor Input current limiting.

However, Erfinder manifested He doesn't care about Torque...in a motor...and we do...we all here value a high torque and high speed machine...when 'before' we had to "sacrifice" either one of them...having always a handicapped Machine from either side.

Therefore, We are sure we will not sacrifice any of the Motor Mechanical Attributes...to obtain a very low current (below ordinary machines)...or reduce drastically amp draw...IF we 'must' sacrifice any of the two main motor parameters.

That said...He could openly proceed anytime.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

The way I understand Erfinder's work, is not you but him suggesting that we could manipulate and control CEMF. And that would mark a distinction and priority of that claim.

The way I see his approach is that we cannot "isolate" EMF from CEMF, same as the horse and cariage, while we still want an effective transportation. But as you say, we can make CEMF to assist the EMF same as the carriage could assist the horse with less inertia if it would be possible (and that is his claim, if I understand it right).

But I could be completely wrong in my assumptions, so I better let open the forum for discussions for people to explore his novel idea.

PS: In a personal note, my feeling Erfinder is trying to build bridges, not to burn them.

G'day barbosi
Without prejudice
Some people come onto this list and make negative comments without even purchasing 2 cheap $3:00 Tandy motors to replicate just what UFO has disclosed and show their progress in doing so they can experience exactly what UFO has disclosed and then they write here how things should be done. We here are replicating UFO's machines NOT anyone else's we do not have here an open forum for every man and his dog to discuss what is or could be or a better way to do things.

So people who want to post here should FIRST really replicate what UFO has disclosed and then discuss what they have or not have achieved not post here what they think would be better when they do not know what they are talking about.

I like many constructive members here have replicated quite a few motors the way UFO has shown us we active ones here have gone from $3.00 machines to ones that have cost us more than 300 times that and are still advancing in our results as we have expected

So barbosi If you would like to participate here then you are welcome like all others who participate if you don't want to participate in replicating UFO's work then do not post here it just clogs up the posts.

Regards


Kogs advancing slowly

[iankoglin]

Kogs update to Videos

G'day Team
Today I tested my asymmetrically modded Imperial P56
Here is 3 videos I up loaded to You Tube they are showing the input voltage, the amps draw, the rpm

and the Gen Voltage for 12v 24v 36v and 48v
Also the same voltages but with the gen put back into the machine

!2 volts here
12v Running the Imperial P56 and measuring the Gen output - YouTube

24 to 36v here

24v to 48v Running the Imperial P56 and measuring the Gen output.MOV - YouTube

12v to 48v with gen output back into motor

Imperial putting the gen output back into the motor - YouTube

when rested after about 4 hours the resting voltages were
12v=12.8, 24v=25.4, 36v=38.1 and 48v=50.8

I hope these videos are satisfactory enjoy
I am very pleased with my results

Kindest Regards



Kogs still in action

[barbosi]

Er, I never said that we could "manipulate" nor "control" CEMF...I said we have been able to mainly Isolate it from the EMF simultaneous action, by using this design, ...then we could adjust our timing to use CEMF to Assist our Motor action from the Magnetic Field side (that's why the Higher Torque)...as to obtain a higher energy value at Generator.

The way I understand Erfinder's work, is not you but him suggesting that we could manipulate and control CEMF. And that would mark a distinction and priority of that claim.

The way I see his approach is that we cannot "isolate" EMF from CEMF, same as the horse and cariage, while we still want an effective transportation. But as you say, we can make CEMF to assist the EMF same as the carriage could assist the horse with less inertia if it would be possible (and that is his claim, if I understand it right).

But I could be completely wrong in my assumptions, so I better let open the forum for discussions for people to explore his novel idea.

PS: In a personal note, my feeling Erfinder is trying to build bridges, not to burn them.

[Ufopolitics]

Tdc-jtdc

Hello Erfinder,

This is hands down one of the best demonstrations of this technology that I have seen. Actually, it's not really a replication since, that which is being demonstrated here I haven't seen being demonstrated before, maybe I didn't see it in previous demonstrations because I didn't want to see. Thumbs up, you have done an excellent job preparing and presenting the information.

WOW Man!...What an "Intro"!!!...am pretty sure you have captivated the whole Thread/Audience attention!...what an "Opening"!!

Please take what follows seriously, don't take it as an insult nor me passing judgement. I am simply pointing out something that should be addressed. If you can accept what I'm saying then we can move forward together, if you cannot, well, I hope you can see where I'm coming from so that we can progress together.

Am pretty sure with this "Serious Judgement Call" above...Kogs is really desperate to read what is coming next...I can here him saying..."WHERE DO I SIGN?!,WHERE DO I SIGN?!...let's do it...let's do it NOW!!

Now the bad news...

Oh Man what a BUMMER!!...After all the Glory, the Enthusiasm, the Fire Works...then the Suspense above??!!

Er, Man you really are incredible...what a way to go Up then come Down in such a steep wave...an Impressive Roll-A-Coaster!!

It's been suggested time and time again that this particular winding technique enables one to manipulate and control the CEMF (generator action) which is limiting the current being supplied to the motor.

Er, I never said that we could "manipulate" nor "control" CEMF...I said we have been able to mainly Isolate it from the EMF simultaneous action, by using this design, ...then we could adjust our timing to use CEMF to Assist our Motor action from the Magnetic Field side (that's why the Higher Torque)...as to obtain a higher energy value at Generator.

I believe that in order to use CEMF to limit current at input...we will have to -basically- "fuse" them together (EMF + CEMF) again...and honestly, if it is at that "price"...I do not think I want it that way...but then again...I may be wrong...in that case, please enlighten me.

But going back to the Video detail you cited...

The recent presentation demonstrates conclusively that this claim is unjustified, as one can clearly see that the CEMF (generator action) is still present, functioning in this modified device in the exact same manner that it does in unmodified machines.

Drawing your attention to 3:35 in the following clip:
Testing 1 the 1000w asemmetrically modified motor part 1 - YouTube

One observes that at the initial instant of switch closure, the motor has no CEMF (generator action) limiting the current and the motor draws maximum current roughly 10A. As the motor increases in rpm, the CEMF (generator action) increases and limits the current to just under 1A. This behavior should be familiar to all, its motor basics 101. If this were myth busters, the device in question would be busted if the aim were disproving the claims.

Er, I believe that is the "Power Surge" we all get even when we turn on a CFL or even an Incandescent lamp in our Houses and it flashes at very high intensity for nano seconds ...a "rush" in of energy filling all spaces...(and some bulbs just "say goodbye" then...) till it meets/closes the loop of the circuit...then the amperage population increases for a nano second or so...As I am pretty sure you know in power sources design it is a "must" to install a Capacitor at Input, as another one at Output...just like you have it in your set up...in order to absorb...cushion that incoming rush flow.

Another similar design to prevent this rush...is when we must set a "filter impact resistor" between the starter solenoid (+ & -) of a typical EV...not to damage the Cap bank at controller when we turn on ignition key.

I know in a Coil/Inductor, CEMF occurs at "make" as also at "brake"...even though some people consider Coil discharge when energy/magnetic field collapses(brake)...but that is not the main point of debate here.

In my Machines it takes just one full spin of 360º for all coils to get energized...that is when the "rush" that you noticed occurs for a very short time on video, and actually it takes Two Frames from 3:35 to 3:36...so fast that needle blurs out at 3:36, then returns to less than one amp.

It's also been stated that this configuration yields more torque than a conventional wound motor, whether it does or doesn't is of no interest to me in light of the fact that the CEMF which is claimed to be under the control of the operator isn't. I would readily accept that the torque is greater, if it can be demonstrated that negative influence that the CEMF (generator action) has on the input current is removed.

Recently I responded to a post from Member Sampojo that, IF We set up the timing of our Machines to Attract Mode more than to Repulse...we will definitively lower the Input Amp Draw considerably, while keeping the Torque above the conventional Symmetric Machine.

The good news.

Ohhh FINALLY something good here!!...

If and when you get the CEMF (generator action) under your control, and it matters very little to me that you may think you have it under control, your actions and demonstrations prove that you don't. If and when you can command the CEMF, you will have the most powerful motor generator topology that the peanut gallery has ever seen! You guys are right looking to control the CEMF, you just aren't controlling it yet.

The output voltage of your generator is higher than the supply voltage, this is good, it's also good to know that the turns ratio between motor and generator is 1:1, all of this is good, however, it's not helping you. When you learn what the CEMF is and how it operates, that generator will become more than a generator. And to repeat what I just said, when you realize what CEMF is, and command it, you will have the most powerful motor generator topology that the peanut gallery has ever seen!

Food for thought only. Keep up the awesome work.

Regards

Yes, finally after reading and watching your Thread material ...I believe I have been able to decipher the "riddle" you have been talking about here and in your Thread...and please tell me if am correct or not...(Oh no!, am in your hands... )

First take a look at this Diagram of your Motor... and the way I understand it through my notes :

[IMG][/IMG]

Let's say we are just analyzing One Phase for sake of simplicity...say it is the North sensing from your Hall IC. So, the Outer Coils Blue and Red rectangles are the Coils Cores area...interacting with Rotor PM positioning at TDC (Green) and JTDC (Yellow)

Therefore, when your Hall is positioned at Coil TDC, sensing Rotor North Magnet (displayed in smaller blue rectangle with TDC letters inside), it energizes Coils N-S, and since you have unequal magnetic interactions, meaning, your Coils Cores are bigger than Rotor Permanent Magnets size...then the coverage of Coils Bisectors is larger than magnets...so you do can afford to set exactly at TDC...We can NOT do that since we are using equal sized poles to stators areas...so we need to fire our coils at a few degrees after TDC or Bisector Alignment...but basically we are talking about trhe same approach...no matter of differences in structures.

The main issue here is that at TDC the Interaction is MAINLY a Repulsion Force between N-N, leaving as "Secondary Assistance" an Attraction towards South Coil or N-S.

When You set the Hall Sensor at JTDC (You call it Joint TDC right?...or between the two coils, that I defined with a yellow intermittent line)...then you are switching to a 50-50 Attract/Repulse Interaction...so the advantage I see here (besides lowering Amp Draw and rising Voltage at your end/out Cap) is that depending of Hall density capture area...versus size of rotor magnets, (which are small, I guess for that purpose)...coils will turn off (allowing the second reversed Phase...but let's not expand there), so, before passing the South Bisector or South Coil TDC acting coils will be off (otherwise your rotor will lock, and obviously it don't, so you do have it fine)...as a result you are using CEMF high current at start firing within a "balanced" magnetic interaction, then it is switched off...so here comes my concept of utilizing CEMF reversal of fields (or call it coil discharge) to assist motor action without rising amp draw at the Off Time.

We could do the same thing with our Machines Erfinder...it is just a matter of tuning the Timing set up to achieve firing our "Pairs" at JTDC like you do...a minor adjustment operation as I see in order to get this effect you are referring to.

I could be wrong "seeing" what I have tried to explain...as am also sure there maybe more to it...


Regards


Ufopolitics