My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[sampojo]

@UFO

Yes, we're on the same page. Dana and I were talking about that last night!: Neodymium magnets, thicker shaft, shiny aluminum case, short fat wires connected directly to a miniaturize JS Monster house on top!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Wow what a truly wild machine that would be with just simple available technology upgrades used in combination with the 125 year old buried knowledge. Can you imagine a modern corporation using readily available assets to break cleanly through with this forbidden technology, what a boon to its sales it should be. It would normally catch on like wildfire. Maybe this will sneak in under the radar...

ps: Also add the BLDC elcetronics UFO just presented. Then another model with the double rotor especially since we would want an aluminum body:-)

[GChilders]

naysayers

@cikljamas,

I viewed the video out of curiosity that you posted. I can name one fault with his build right off. He has the brush pairs permanently fixed. If you examine the successful builds here you will notice that the brush pairs have a slot and there is a very good reason for this. In all of ufo's instructions he talks about the need to get the brushes as close to the center dividing point of the stator magnets. He gives a rough position in his cad drawings but this has to be fine tuned in order to get the maximum torque out of the motor. I have done 5 successful replications of this motor both the r/s wind and the y wind or dual pentagon. In all of them I was unable to stop the motor with my finger tips, quite the opposite with the stock goldmine motors, I could easily stop them with my fingertips. Also the voltage that you can put through one of these rewound motors is easily double what you can safely put through a symmetrically wound motor. These motors when hooked up to a pulser drop down in amps draw considerably. The motors are much more efficient than the stock winds. I look forward to the testing that will be done at Imperial and I know that the motor will pass with flying colors. I am in the process of testing the motors I have with the pulsers and reworking the program to smooth out the action that I am seeing. Hopefully by the end of the week I will have made more progress in understanding the complications of the motor. But in spite of what you think each experimenter and replicator has made progress with their builds. We are not a bunch of sheep following the pied piper. We are adventurers that have seen solid results and are continuing because of those solid results. I really am not concerned about overunity at this point in my journey. I just want to build things that will beat the **** out of gas engines and not cost me a fortune in gas every time I take a trip. I believe if you continue to watch this thread with us you will see breakthrough after breakthrough.

Cheers

Garry

[RandyFL]

Results

I second the Last post...
Its been over 100 yrs or so of the establishment sucking untold wealth off the backs of ordinary ppl...
My hat goes off to the ppl here who are willing to share what they have made and learned...

Go replicators

All the best
Randy

[Midaztouch]

Hi guys!

After 208 pages of this thread, we should see some proofs of something, i guess...

Is there any proof of anything about this ufo's concept of avoiding b.e.m.f., and achieving better torque, better efficency or maybe even COP > 1?

This is food for thought here also: Asymmetrical motor Replication .... not looking good for UFO politics ! - YouTube

Has anyone disproved objections of this guy with multimeters and exact tests and numbers, after 208 pages of this thread?

By now (after 208 pages) i would expect great celebration of ufo's team as a result of gaining ground on petrodollar slave owners, and i am not ironic at all, just sincere and curious as always...

Regards!

cikljamas,

Sorry things haven't moved as fast as you would like it to. We all do this in our free time and use our own personal money. So time and/or money is very limited for most of us. Furthermore, gaining access to a professional state of the art testing lad is not easy to get. Through all adversity, we are still proceeding forward. This thread is an excellent opportunity to learn something new and interact with some very nice people. In the past, there has been friction and losses but things are smoothing out considerably. Everyone here tries to be as helpful and understanding as possible. I hope that you noticed, in a few post before your post, that a handmade UFO motor is on the test bench at the original OEM. Their engineers will give us some definitive answers and questions in the next few weeks. Please be patient.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[cikljamas]

Hi guys!

After 208 pages of this thread, we should see some proofs of something, i guess...

Is there any proof of anything about this ufo's concept of avoiding b.e.m.f., and achieving better torque, better efficency or maybe even COP > 1?

This is food for thought here also: Asymmetrical motor Replication .... not looking good for UFO politics ! - YouTube

Has anyone disproved objections of this guy with multimeters and exact tests and numbers, after 208 pages of this thread?

By now (after 208 pages) i would expect great celebration of ufo's team as a result of gaining ground on petrodollar slave owners, and i am not ironic at all, just sincere and curious as always...

Regards!

[Midaztouch]

Post Data: Midaz...eventually, after they complete this testings...and decide to go for a "Glorified,Upgraded... P56 Model"...then We will drop a Full Video and CAD to make the Dual Rotor P56...then see if they could get a couple of "samples" to test them in our Racing CBR's...

@UFO

Yes, we're on the same page. Dana and I were talking about that last night!: Neodymium magnets, thicker shaft, shiny aluminum case, short fat wires connected directly to a miniaturize JS Monster house on top!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[RandyFL]

Apology...

UFO/All
Let me first apologize to You publically in this forum for PM you...It wasn't my intention to publically or privately cause you animosity towards my ability to ask questions... Also I didn't mean to cause you any nervousness about mentioning to Patrick Kelly who asked how I got the info and I told Him. Its not my practice to divulge any private info to anyone, anytime or in the future... I got the various info from doing google searches...
After I saw the buildup of tensions between you and another I can appreciate the gravity of being cautious in the PM arena.
I do too much web searching as it is ( parts, schematics and various other interests ) to go thru each posts ( and I may have to anyway ) to the point of hurting my eyes on a consistent basis...
I am new to this forum ( as you know ) and I am not savvy to protocol procedures...
With that out of the way...
I am not sure back emf is our enemy/I'm not there yet.
My electrician friend called it surge and He ( old school ) didn't care where it went or how it went...
My electronic Engineer friend ( 84 ) who died this Xmas laughed at Free Energy and said its not possible... I agreed to disagreed and build according to what I believe is correct. As I stated before ( in the forum )your motors are what Tesla originally wanted...efficiency.
As I stated to Patrick Kelly ( and this is the Last Time I use His Name here )
I don't like having to coax the motor to work... I spotted Woopy ( sorry to use your name ) spin it to start the motor and I also saw Lightworker1 do it and I saw Lindemann do it...I just saw one of your vids and it was go from the start.
Anyway I am grateful to your work and your willingness to help me/us and anybody who is interested in your motors...

All the Best
RandyFl
And my name is Randy :-)
ps spent the morning looking at dremels and equipment

[Ufopolitics]

Imperial Asymmetric Motor at Imperial Electric...

@Team

How are you? I'm glad to see your still pushing forward.

Imperial is always looking to improve on their product line up. Their bottom line is "manufacturing cost effectiveness and future growth".

Specialty motors can be bought at a "Premium Price". Meaning, they can upgrade any motor; neodymium magnets, aluminum case, redesigned brush housing...etc.

Luckily our motor is the same dimensions as their "workhorse" 56 frame, Imperial can get upgrades from their vendors and make a finished product frame relatively easy. ... Coil winding automation = price & performance = value.

Our motor has not been balanced. It must be tested in it raw state first. It's a working prototype!

Dana put his magical touch on the JS Monster. It's a Masterpiece!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

PS. Sampojo, you are da man!

Hello Midaz!

You and Dana are doing an excellent work on getting this Motor over to Imperial Electric to be checked properly...

I know many Members here, working, or planning to work on Imperial conversion into Asymmetric...will appreciate all this work you two guys are doing...

Thanks for sending me the picture below...where they are conducting the Torque tests with "A" professional Dyno...

[IMG][/IMG]

Yes, definitively it would be "SHOWTIME" very soon!!...

At Imperial Engineering end, they know very well the Spec's from their original Symmetric Model...(and I must say they did an excellent work on the winding spec's...because motor runs smooth and great from factory)

It is just that using same amount of voltage input (24V) our Asymmetric one will beat up easy the 2400 RPM's established from factory on original...as well as the 100 Amp draw at 4 HP of Torque...

And that was not including the Sir John Stone, Monster Quad/Arduino Pulser Controller Systems...

Could you imagine the performance with Neodymium PM Stators on this Beast?!

As the weight reduction and stator magnetic field increase by using an Aluminum Housing?!


Please Midaz, keep Us All updated of all Operations/Testing at Imperial Electric!...heck of a job Guys!!


Regards


Ufopolitics


Post Data: Midaz...eventually, after they complete this testings...and decide to go for a "Glorified,Upgraded... P56 Model"...then We will drop a Full Video and CAD to make the Dual Rotor P56...then see if they could get a couple of "samples" to test them in our Racing CBR's...

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Randy FL

Thanx Gchilders/All
Since its early Saturday and I will have breakfast with the guys...I will head over to my local Home Depot and see what instrument for cutting.
What size thickness is these little motors / and since I'll be cutting thicker sizes ( Imperial 56 ) and various other projects... I don't mind using a hacksaw and a vise but I want something easier and more precise...
If anyone has a better system or a better way please post

All the best
Randy
ps even tho I am forbidden to go to Home Depot (wife )

Hello RandyFL,

First I want to say that I did not like your interest about me revealing my Real , Personal Name, exclusively to You, just like that, in your first mail or Private Message to Me on this Forum. I don't think it is necessary, in order for you to learn how to wind a Five Pole Radio Shack Motor...nor for an Imperial. So far I have been doing it for more than a year and a half...without any inconvenience in communication...

It will be completely on my end, when, in time, to say who I am...and so far am not interested.

Getting back to winding and assembly of the Five Pole RS Model:

Cutting

I cut the frame with a Dremel Carbide cutting disc, prior I set the casing in a small Bench Vise Grip, using wood paint sticks as to prevent to contact metal with metal, I highly recommend to find an old, small , short ratchet Socket that fits pretty tight inside the housing, to prevent from bending it as also to rectify that it is perfectly round.

Before cutting housing you will need to do some measurements and put some guiding tape (I use masking ) always leaving at least a millimeter gap for the cutting tool thickness to go through. Measure then Mark first, different points, at 0º, 90º, 180º...to run the tape through those dots.

Attaching Housing Rims

To attach both rings together I used my 175 Watts Soldering Iron...and it works perfect, also mounted on a vise, and of course, making sure you have removed magnets before cutting or welding...to prevent from De-magnetizing the PM Stators. You have to solder by spots areas, then cool them, then go to the opposite end at 180º of the casing to solder other side.

If you have a small Lathe, it would be awesome, because it will help you to align the cuts perfect, in order not to have any mechanical drag. And, of course, I would check first that alignment is well by "pre-bonding" both rings first with crazy glue or any FAST DRYING and strong glue.

If you do not have a lathe, then the process takes longer time by filing both connecting rims by hand, then checking both rings ends attached with rotor and magnets attached. I use a small square

About winding ways:

[IMG][/IMG]

On picture above, notice the distance (on Original) from commutator side shaft length...then compare it with the Asymmetrical one...notice it is shorter?...well, in that post I explained about using a small socket(s) to push shaft a bit more in than factory, when setting in a vise grip, this way you will have more end at the "power take off" side of shaft.

Originally I used the red wire, about 28 awg from Radio Shack, they come in a Three Spool package, Gold (22awg), Green(26) and Red(28). And around Fifteen turns per Coil, totaling around 30 turns in Pair.

I now encourage You to use a finer wire, say 32-33 awg (not available in RS) to obtain much lower Amp Draw rates...As finer wire will allow more turns ...


Originally I suggested to keep resistance per coil at One(1) Ohm per Pair...NOW I encourage to use a finer gauge and to go ABOVE 1 (One) Ohm, up to two(2) or even Three Ohms per Pair.

Originally you will find a lot of criticism on this motor on previous posts, due to its high amp draw...of course!...since Amps draw is completely dependent on Resistance of Coils, according to Ohm Law..., and the original RS Motor is wound with 32-33 awg...and about sixty turns per coil... It would be clearly understood then, the Original would draw much less amps (Duh!)...


Kaptain Kneemow have quite a few videos on his You Tube channel , dedicated to the 5 Pole RS like:

Asymmetric DC Motor - Winding Question - YouTube

I have almost all videos of previous members replications on my site page:

UFOPOLITICS » FIVE POLE REPLICATIONS

All CAD's and Diagrams as timing settings are below:

UFOPOLITICS » FIVE POLES-P5

There are many posts at the beginning of this Thread related to that RS Motor...as also many more explanations, guiding, videos and even more CAD's

Do not get confused with the Five Pole Pentagon style which is a different one, so the simple one and the useful to know in order to go later on on Imperial is the P5 or P SERIES kind.

...and since I'll be cutting thicker sizes ( Imperial 56 ) ...

You do NOT need to cut Imperial Frame, nor replace shaft, everything fits perfectly well from factory, and that is the reason I have chosen this particular Machine. This kind of Motor have many applications for small EV's, big sized Scooters/Motocycles as also running generators, etc.

I recommend you to watch all videos, all CAD's Diagrams...but mainly, locate the section on this Thread, (I believe this motor was discussed in detail at different times, not only in the first part of this Thread) where We go over the whole construction of this Motor, so, read carefully and save into your own file all info you could gather together.

Thanks for your interest on this Machines.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[RandyFL]

Metal cut

Thanx Gchilders/All
Since its early Saturday and I will have breakfast with the guys...I will head over to my local Home Depot and see what instrument for cutting.
What size thickness is these little motors / and since I'll be cutting thicker sizes ( Imperial 56 ) and various other projects... I don't mind using a hacksaw and a vise but I want something easier and more precise...
If anyone has a better system or a better way please post

All the best
Randy
ps even tho I am forbidden to go to Home Depot (wife )

[GChilders]

RS Motor

@RandyFL
There are probably many different approaches represented here. I used a 12 inch miter saw with a carborundum blade to cut the body of the gold mine motors into pieces. The result was quick and the cuts were relatively square. I own this saw so it was already in my tools. I used a dremel to cut the slots and the castle looking ends to give the ability to adjust the timing on the brushes independently of each other. Then I used a mig welder to weld the pieces back together. I only spot welded them in four positions for each section. I had these tools in my tool shed. If you examine some of the work you will see that some of the replicators used the bands to hold them together, I presume with epoxy. My first two replications were wired together to keep the end caps on. The amazing thing is that they actually worked and were much stronger than the original motors. Take what you have and work with it. If you have woodworking tools don't be afraid to use them for metal working, I have found that they can be used very well. If you have metal working tools use those. You can do this work with hand tools but it will be easier with power tools. But if you just want to prove the concept and make an inexpensive project use hand tools if that is all you have. It can be done that way. It has been said before, if I can do it anyone can. Just work safe and enjoy the path. You will learn a lot and have fun too.

Cheers

Garry

[RandyFL]

Welcome to the replication club

Thanx Sampojo

I was looking at the radio shack motors ( online ) to see what all the commotion was about...
How do you cut thru them?
hacksaw
Or how did you cut thru yours...


All the Best
RandyFL

[sampojo]

watch the little insulation washers

[QUOTE=RandyFL;250740]Hello
UFO/All
I have seen most of the videos of the various stages of the Radio Shack motor except the video ( or procedure ) on taking the motor apart...
or is that part of the learning curve...
I have studied the motor drawings of the windings and you're using Tesla's original patent drawing as Tesla wanted it to be used... efficiently.
If there is a post or redirect towards the beginning stage please point me to it... (anyone).



on the shaft at each end. needed in the asym build too. don't lose them. use small screws thru the endplate holes as brush retainers when putting the motor together. tough to measure what exactly the overall length of the motor body will be after assembly with whatever b rush to armature spacing you use. Redo the calculation a few times. If you get it wrong you will need to build a new motor body. 1" copper pipe has the right ID. (USA)

Welcome to the replication club

[Midaztouch]

what will be the reaction of this corporation when they see you using all their components and beating the snot out of all their configurations?

So all balanced at Imperial's subcontractor I assume?

Hows your Monster controller? Any plans to introduce it? That would be a real eye-opener for the engineering department!

I am on the edge of my seat!

you da man Midaz!!!

@Team

How are you? I'm glad to see your still pushing forward.

Imperial is always looking to improve on their product line up. Their bottom line is "manufacturing cost effectiveness and future growth".

Specialty motors can be bought at a "Premium Price". Meaning, they can upgrade any motor; neodymium magnets, aluminum case, redesigned brush housing...etc.

Luckily our motor is the same dimensions as their "workhorse" 56 frame, Imperial can get upgrades from their vendors and make a finished product frame relatively easy. ... Coil winding automation = price & performance = value.

Our motor has not been balanced. It must be tested in it raw state first. It's a working prototype!

Dana put his magical touch on the JS Monster. It's a Masterpiece!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

PS. Sampojo, you are da man!

[RandyFL]

Radio Shack Motor

Hello
UFO/All
I have seen most of the videos of the various stages of the Radio Shack motor except the video ( or procedure ) on taking the motor apart...
or is that part of the learning curve...
I have studied the motor drawings of the windings and you're using Tesla's original patent drawing as Tesla wanted it to be used... efficiently.
If there is a post or redirect towards the beginning stage please point me to it... (anyone).

Have a great day
RandyFL