My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Lightworker1]

Hello Kogs I hope everything is OK. Your Doc downloaded OK for me
currently taking data measurements with Dual Penta Goldmine motor. More of that later.

Warmest regards

light

[machinealive]

@ Midas
34 hrs,...hard to image people willing to pay for the amount of time and work to build. But, now that people will understand the work involved,...if anyone is actually willing to pay for my work,... I will build motors, only imperials, not balanced or vacuum sealed. That could be done but extra. I would have to get $2000.00 , plus your shipping from my biz.

Now I have two, here now, so I could sell one and since it was done at a prototype level, still works great, fabulous in fact, I would knock $500.00 off.

Hope things are going well UFO, everyone.

Machine

[iankoglin]

G'day All
Sorry for the problem with my drop Box was the Nut on the mouse ME
I could not find how to send the link I have done it now and here it is

This link is Pasted directly in the Post

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9bdd9e5dm...nding%20P1.doc

This post is pasted through the insert link box


https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9bdd9e5dma7mv8/15%20Pole%202%20Stator%20winding%20P1.doc





Kogs is a Dummy sometimes

[iankoglin]

G'day all
As some have not been able to download the Word Doc I have posted here for all to see

[IMG][/IMG]

Blue is North Red is South I have numbered the slots for clarity in explanation.
To determine the number of turns/winds for each pole each slot will hold 4 parts of 2 poles 2 parts S and 2 parts N
Wind around the top shaft twice to secure the wire.

First turn it is CCW and a SP take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is one turn record this turn number.

Second Turn Pull wire tight then down S1 again keeping the wire as close to the shaft as it will go then up S6 again Pull the wire as tight as it will go then go across to S1 record this turn 2.

Each time you go down a slot and pull the wire tight it will push the previous wire up the slot which is OK and what we want to do.

Keep doing this until the S1 and S6 are fully wound and each time record the number of turns as you go This will be the total number of turns required to completely wind 2 Poles as each pole slot will contain 4 Half poles so we divide the total number of turns to fill these slots by 4 and because we cannot wind part turns we discard the remainder this is the number of turns to wind each half pole we will call Nturns now cut the wire about 1 half meter longer this will wind the first 2 poles.

Now to wind the First Pole P1
Secure the wires to commutator P1 top. (This is where the batt Positive is connected)

First we wind CCW P1 South take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is one turn record this turn number 1. Now take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is the second turn record this turn number 2. continue doing this until Nturns is reached this is the South Half of P1. Now we continue

winding CW P1 North Pull the wire tight go across to S10 Pull the wire tight bring the wire up S10 Pull the wire tight go across to S15 Pull wire tight go down S15 as close to the shaft as you can go this is one turn record this number 1 Now bring the wire up S10 pull the wire tight across to S10 Pull the wire tight bring the wire up S10 tight go across to S15 Pull wire tight go down S15 as close to the shaft as you can go this is one turn record this number 2. . continue doing this until Nturns is reached this is the North Half of P1. Now secure the wires to commutator P1 Bottom (This is where the batt Positive is connected)


Now to wind the Second Pole P2
When winding this pole just follow the above directions replacing the S#
Always remember to pull the wires tight if the wires are too heavier gauge to just pull tight you must use some means to make sure the wires are straight alongside each other if they cross over one another they will just take up space and not only reduce the number of turns but where they cross over they will wear the enamel off when they vibrate .

I am sorry that you were not able to download my Doc Was anyone able to Download this File

Kindest Regards

Kogs always trying to oblige

[marxist]

Hi kogs,

just to let you know, that I also DO NOT manage to download your document from dropbox.

Has ANYONE without a dropbox-account managed to download kog's document?

Kogs, if you want to veryify that the document can be downloaded by everybody, you have to log out of dropbox and then - while being logged out - try to use the link you provided in this posting http://www.energeticforum.com/248975-post6075.html

[ajaya999]

Thanks a lot Kogs

Hi Kogs,

Thanks for your patience and explanation.

I'll go by these threads.

G'day Kumar
I am sorry You are still not right if you remember in my post to you I sent you a word document please study it until you get the sense of it.

But your attachment to dropbox is still not working for me. I'm giving a screenshot of it here.



Many thanks Kogs for the support. And I'll keep referring to the threads.

I'll try to make some notes so that I won't lose track and referring back will go easy.

Thanks and Namaste

Kumar

[iankoglin]

Kogs P56 wire calculation

G'day UFO and Team
I just cleaned up the 3 P56 armatures and wound AWG18 1mm diam wire to fill one slot complete I think I could wind 17 turns per half pole.
I am now in the process of winding .6mm diam. wire to fill one slot completely to see haw many winds/turns I could get to wind bifilar I will let you know before I begin to wind one full armature.
Kindest Regards

G'day UFO and Team

Number of turns per Pole
If you wind completely one half of a pole i.e. fill P1 N or P1 S the number of windings/turns is equal to two full poles i.e. P1 N&S and P2 N&S we can call this number FHP (Full Half Pole) and therefore the number of turns for each pole is FHP divide by 2 also the number of turns for each half pole is FHP divided by 4.

If the Armature is to be Bifilar then the wire is to be thinner and the number of turns for one Pole would be equal to FHP divided by 2. This is the same as normal winding as we are winding only one strand per turn but being Bifilar when winding the real Pole we will be winding two strands together and so the real number of turns is halved and therefore the number of bifilar winds per half pole would be FHP divided by 8.

The Ohms per Pole
Normal winding If you measure the Total Ohms for the FHP then this would be say TOFHP and therefore would be the total Ohms for two whole poles so the Ohms for one pole would be TOFHP divided by 2

Bifilar winding as the calculating of a bifilar Ohms is Half (near enough) of the total single wire Ohms so the Ohms for one pole would be TOFHP divided by 8.

Now the winding of MY P1 is as below
Using the AWG 18 (0.1mm diam.) wire The FHP is 68 turns and therefore the Number of turns per half pole is 17
The TOFHP measured with 2 different DMM is

First DMM is 0.7 Ohms minus the DMM 0.2 Ohms = 0.5 Ohms
Second DMM is 0.9 Ohms minus the DMM 0.4 Ohms = 0.5 Ohms

The TOFHP is for 2 poles and therefore the one pole is 0.25 Ohms

Using Bifilar the AWG 22 (0.6mm diam.) wire The FHP is 232 turns and therefore the Number of turns per half pole bifilar is 29

The Second DMM is 5.1 Ohms minus the DMM 0.4 Ohms = 4.7 Ohms
The TOFHP is for 2 poles and therefore the one pole is 4.7 Ohms divided by 8 =0.5875 Ohms
I did not use the first DMM here

The P1 for AWG 18 =0.25 Ohms The P1 for AWG 22 =0.5875 Ohms

I hope this info is understood

Please any input would be appreciated

Kindest Regards


Kogs now has a headache

[iankoglin]

Hi Kogs,

Namaste. Thanks a lot for the support.

But I need to read the threads thoroughly as UFO said. I'll do that Kogs.

Even then, I keep disturbing you in the current design. Sorry.

Thanks a lot for your earlier post that saved me a lot. I calculated the resistance for the coil pair as a whole ( not per pole) and it's near to 1 ohm, where it should to be between 1.6 and 2 ohms.

I used 23 SWG as the manufacturer also used the same.

If I have to go with the same 23 swg, i need to increase the number of turns, but there is no room in the armature.

Now I have to go for a different gauge instead of the 23 SWG that I used. Can I go for lower gauge with which I can maintain the number of turns and the required resistance?


Regards and Namaste

Kumar

G'day Kumar
I am sorry You are still not right if you remember in my post to you I sent you a word document please study it until you get the sense of it.
In this Document I stated that The P1 is the centre of the pole You have TWO half poles so One Pole is from the Top commutator P1 wind first the South pole on the armature in a CCW direction as I explained in my Word Doc and then continue the winding of the North Pole CW then to the bottom commutator P1.
This makes up ONE POLE UFO has stated it should be between .7 ohms and 1 OHM or there about. You said your ohms for the 2 half poles was between .9 and less than 1 ohm this would be great.

I the P56 frame Imperial motor if I remember correctly he stated that with many poles the Ohms can be less as the on time is much smaller and therefore the motor will not heat up as much.
Its best you do read all the posts I still spend a lot of time re reading these posts to make sure what I am doing I am doing it correct.

Kindest Regards


Kogs still trying to be helpful

[Midaztouch]

G'day UFO and Team
I just cleaned up the 3 P56 armatures and wound AWG18 1mm diam wire to fill one slot complete I think I could wind 17 turns per half pole.
I am now in the process of winding .6mm diam. wire to fill one slot completely to see haw many winds/turns I could get to wind bifilar I will let you know before I begin to wind one full armature.
Kindest Regards

Kogs just trying an alternative

Hey Kogs

I'm glad you have finally gotten to your Imperials. This is the fun part, winding it! I had to wind my motor 4 times and I'm still not perfect! From my experience, you should wind your motor with 18 gauge wire with 13 or 14 winds. With 15 winds, your pressing your luck if your winding by hand!

Be safe with the 14 winds for your first motor. That way you will have a feel for winding the motor and have a proven working motor.... It took/takes me about 34 hours of hands on TOUCHING the motor! ... YES, 34 hrs of Touching from start to finish.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[ajaya999]

Thanks a lot Kogs

Hi Kogs,

Namaste. Thanks a lot for the support.

But I need to read the threads thoroughly as UFO said. I'll do that Kogs.

Even then, I keep disturbing you in the current design. Sorry.

Thanks a lot for your earlier post that saved me a lot. I calculated the resistance for the coil pair as a whole ( not per pole) and it's near to 1 ohm, where it should to be between 1.6 and 2 ohms.

I used 23 SWG as the manufacturer also used the same.

If I have to go with the same 23 swg, i need to increase the number of turns, but there is no room in the armature.

Now I have to go for a different gauge instead of the 23 SWG that I used. Can I go for lower gauge with which I can maintain the number of turns and the required resistance?


Regards and Namaste

Kumar

[ajaya999]

Dear Sir,

Namaste.

Imagine how far back behind we would be now...if everyone would act like you do Kumar?

Really I apologize for not chewing and digesting the entire material available. Sorry for the disappointment caused.

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

[Ufopolitics]

Great!

G'day UFO and Team
I just cleaned up the 3 P56 armatures and wound AWG18 1mm diam wire to fill one slot complete I think I could wind 17 turns per half pole.

Well if you could do that it would be great!

I am now in the process of winding .6mm diam. wire to fill one slot completely to see haw many winds/turns I could get to wind bifilar I will let you know before I begin to wind one full armature.
Kindest Regards

Kogs just trying an alternative

Great idea, excellent Kogs!

Please keep Us posted, thanks!


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Dear UFOPOLITICS and Team,

Namaste. Still down with fever

As I was sitting idle and looking at the motor I got a doubt. Please help me in understanding it better.

In the design we are keeping pick up brushes @90 deg to the supply brushes. It means we are leaving the powered coil to rotate 1/4 of the rotation after it's energized.

Hello Kumar, I believe the fever is causing your vision to see some delusional (not real) geometries...

Your Motor, the design I have made for you, is a Two Brush, two stators...apart by 180º, and NOT 90º. Therefore it is not 1/4 but 1/2 (half) of the rotation.

Is it necessary to rotate the powered coil to that extent to maintain the torque etc of the motor? If so, please explain.

Kumar, after seeing my Thread, this Thread...that have been "on the air" for close to two years...don't you think that being close to 600,000 times viewed...and not even one Member here would have asked the same questions you are making?!

Yes, indeed they did ask and many times before Kumar...but, besides that, they've made many models where their brushes would be able to rotate to different angles...and tests outputs at different angles...
The Members who have replicated Four Brush Systems...have also used just one Input (M Brush) while reading off the other Three Gates of Brushes...

If not, how will it be in case we place pick up brushes very next to the supply brushes (by taking care that the same commutator element is not touched by both supply and pickup brushes simultaneously), means as near as possible, and use this energy to charge the coil that is approaching the supply brushes?

Sorry. I'm sensing I'm missing something. But not able to catch. Is it that the energy given to the supply will not match with the energy taken from it?

My second doubt is if we power a coil pair from brushes and once that pair leaves the commutator element, will it keep gaining energy the more it moves? or will it maintain the same energy? or will it lose some part of the energy? Can you please tell me how the energy will be behaving in the pair at the end of one rotation?

Even it looks silly to the learned, please answer.

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

Yes, "You are sensing you are missing something"...

My First Thread Here.

I already have shown here those possibilities of bringing the pick up brushes as close as possible to the source as we could...as another way to study and test output capabilities of the Inductor at polarity reversal...did you know this last part?...Inductor(coil) reversing polarity after collapsing its energy input charge?

It is obvious you did not went -and IF You did, obviously NOT DEEP ENOUGH- through my first Thread here, Kumar...We studied every single response of a Stationary Coil when we pulsed it...and read its output through just a couple of ultrafast switching diodes and a 555 Timer oscillator, measure frequencies before and after diodes...Voltage, Amperage...I mean the works...and I can tell -because of your questions- you have not performed such tests...That Thread is still there...for you to do your own search...

I really do NOT like to repeat material I have already spent so many hours explaining, writing and making all kind of Graphics, and it is ALL HERE in previous posts, and FREE for anyone to read...as many of Us have spent many hundreds of hours of long debates writing here...

Kumar, imagine that every single member that enters this Thread...acts like you do...jumps to the last page and say to all and to Himself...

I am here...I want to make a UFO Motor...I have NOT finished reading, I have not made even the smallest miniature motor here...but I want to start by the biggest I could get my hands on...

Oh, and it is not a "Common" one! Oh No!...it has a very Unique Pole Configuration...a Fifteen Pole...so...Please UFO...Make CAD for me...


Imagine how far back behind we would be now...if everyone would act like you do Kumar?


So, please...take a good medicine for your fever, then wind the Motor when you feel better,...and if you wanna know what are the results are by bringing as close as possible the pick up brush to the source one...Then make it happen!...make an "adjustable mechanism" for the two vertical brushes without loosing their linear alignment between them...then come back here and let Us all know how did it go ...

However, You are a lucky guy Kumar...that there are Members here like Kogs (Iankoglin) that answered your questions so perfectly about material displayed here more than a year ago...

Kogs have been a very loyal follower since my very first Thread here...and I mean not only a follower but a Maker of all my models and the respective testings.


Hope you get better in order to finish this motor.


Take care


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO and Team
I just cleaned up the 3 P56 armatures and wound AWG18 1mm diam wire to fill one slot complete I think I could wind 17 turns per half pole.
I am now in the process of winding .6mm diam. wire to fill one slot completely to see haw many winds/turns I could get to wind bifilar I will let you know before I begin to wind one full armature.
Kindest Regards

Kogs just trying an alternative

[iankoglin]

Dear UFOPOLITICS and Team,

Namaste. Still down with fever

As I was sitting idle and looking at the motor I got a doubt. Please help me in understanding it better.

In the design we are keeping pick up brushes @90 deg to the supply brushes. It means we are leaving the powered coil to rotate 1/4 of the rotation after it's energized.

Is it necessary to rotate the powered coil to that extent to maintain the torque etc of the motor? If so, please explain.

If not, how will it be in case we place pick up brushes very next to the supply brushes (by taking care that the same commutator element is not touched by both supply and pickup brushes simultaneously), means as near as possible, and use this energy to charge the coil that is approaching the supply brushes?

Sorry. I'm sensing I'm missing something. But not able to catch. Is it that the energy given to the supply will not match with the energy taken from it?

My second doubt is if we power a coil pair from brushes and once that pair leaves the commutator element, will it keep gaining energy the more it moves? or will it maintain the same energy? or will it lose some part of the energy? Can you please tell me how the energy will be behaving in the pair at the end of one rotation?

Even it looks silly to the learned, please answer.


Regards and Namaste

Kumar

G'day Kumar I hope your fever goes soon.
I do not exactly understand what your Question is. So To try to answer what I think you are asking please examine the following along side UFO's drawing of your motor.

If you examine the Pic of your motor that UFO drew for you there is showing only the Motor Brushes Pair (Top and Bottom)
When the current is applied and the Pair of brushes are energized as soon as the Brushes Pair touch the commutator P1 motor segment the whole of the P1 (S1 and N1) are energized and therefore the P1 becomes an electromagnet half N and half South You can see immediately the P1N is repelled by the N stator magnet and at the same time the P1S is repelled by the S Stator magnet and this is what actually moves the rotor making the motor work You will notice that the way the Armature is situated that on both poles of the armature P1 bisector and The Stator bisectors there is a wider magnet on the Armature P1 magnets than the Stator magnets and when the P1 is energized both magnetic fields try to move in the direction to equalize each other. The portion of the P1 South that is opposite the Stator South will be repelled by the Stator South But notice that the P1 South is close to the North Stator and so P1 S will be attracted to the North Stator which will increase the movement of the Armature and in the correct direction. Have you understood so far?
Now when the energized pair of brushes leave the P1 segment of the Commutator TWO THINGS will occur
ONE Immediately the P1 is de-energized as the Radiant Energy appears and it is in the reverse direction and therefore the magnetic fields P1 are reversed what happens then the motor where it was repelling mode is now in attraction mode so you see even when the power is cut off (the P1 has passed the energized brushes) the motor is still being moved without any outside action(no Current from the Brushes)
SECOND the Energized brushes now are connected to the P2 windings of the armature and the same thing is repeated as with P1

Do you now follow that the same occurs with each pole as it is connected to the energized brushes and as you can see the P2 is started to be energized before P1 is de-energized.

NOW as soon as P? is de-energized as stated above the Radiant Energy comes and not only Reverses it's Poles but as the Radiant now has energized P? it can be Harvested/collected through the Generator Brushes which are normally set half way between the Motor Brushes or it can be FED back into the machine to reduce the Energy taken to run the motor. UFO has shown us several times how this can be done.

The Generator/Pickup Brushes are half way between the Motor Brushes because of what I have written immediately above they can also be used as Motor brushes.

I am sure I am right if not I am sure I will be corrected

Kumar I hope this is helpful to your understanding

Kindest Regards



Kogs just trying to be helpful